Am I over reacting or is this manipulative

[Allthegoodnamestakken]

DP and I have been together 9 years, we were young when we got together so it was only the last couple of years I’ve really started thinking about marriage and kids. Over the last 12 months I’ve made my feelings on this very clear and he has always made the right noises.

Things have been a bit patchy lately an a few months ago during an argument about something stupid he told me that he has planned to ask me to marry him very soon but how could he propose if I was going to trap him in a marriage of arguments. This really upset me it was a stupid argument and prior to this we were perfectly happy.

Since then theirs been a few occasions where during minor disagreements he has made comments along similar lines. I now feel as though he is basically using marriage and kids as a threat to get me to never question anything, never argue back always be on my best behaviour. It’s making me feel very manipulated and actually ruining how happy I felt in the relationship.

Sounds like he wants out, but is to scared to be the one to break it off

Doesn't sound great to be honest. But at least you are talking about things, which is a good start. Tell him how you feel. I was married at 19 and divorced at 28 when I discovered my husband didn't want children, we never spoke about it as I thought it was natural. Get it all out on the table and then you can decide what to do.

I think you should trust your gut on this one. Has he started doing anything else that is making you worried ?

@Greensleevevssnotnose i have put it all on the table over the last 12 months I have on three occasions very clearly told him that I want to get married and have kids. He has agreed he wants the same and even agreed on rough timelines.
but now whenever theirs a disagreement even small e.g I’m annoyed he was very late for dinner with friends his default response has become along the lines of how do you expect me to want to marry you if you behave like that / nag me like that / expect me to do that etc.

Yes, it's manipulative. He's essentially telling you to 'behave' or he won't marry you. If he's holding this over your head more and more then it doesn't bode well. It's possible he's identified the promise of marriage as your weakness and is using it as leverage.

That said, it also sounds like bickering might be creeping into the relationship? Do you mean you were both meant to go for dinner with friends and he was late? Maybe he's questioning whether he wants a lifetime of this? You should be questioning whether you truly want a marriage with him and all of his faults (whatever they are), or whether you just think it's 'time' for marriage because after 9 years it's the logical next step?

Don't marry him, break it off and leave. He's keeping you dangling because he knows it's important to you but he doesn't want it so is using the no arguments thing as a stick to beat you with. If he wanted it you'd be married by now. You've made it clear it's what you want and now you have he's making excuses/reasons why he won't. Leave now while you've got time on your hands to meet someone else to give you what you need and want.

I'd run a mile from a man who suggested that he was doing me a favour by marrying me.

@Sparklfairy we have been bickering a bit but it’s definitely got worse since he started using this as an excuse. In the particular example we had arranged dinner with friends, he was going to pick me up at home and we would go together. 15 minutes after the agreed pick up time I called him and he hadn’t left work yet which is an hour away, I told him I was annoyed he hadn’t called because I could’ve just driven myself so at least one of us was on time and in response he blew up that I was nagging him and it was only dinner and we would only be an hour late etc. I admittedly argued back that I really wasn’t the one in the wrong and then it was spun into how could he marry someone so uptight/naggy

I fear I’m making it sound like we’re always arguing we aren’t we get on great most of the time but this has become his default defence for even the most minor disagreement or irritation

Sorry to say, but this is similar to how my exP began speaking to me before evolving into full-blown coercive control as soon as I became pregnant. Particularly commenting on your “behaviour”. It’s really immature and controlling and I’d be so careful having a child with him to be honest

He doesn't want to marry you. Please don't get pregnant and trapped.

So he didn't let you know he was running late, he waited for you to call him and then accused you of nagging? Did he let the friends know before you called him?

If not, I suspect he set you up. Maybe he had to stay at work or maybe not but he orchestrated a row. How exactly were you supposed to react, 'Oh ok love no worries, I'll just wait here until you're good and ready'??? A simple text to say 'so sorry, I'm stuck at work' takes no effort at all... This really reads like he orchestrated the row on purpose to throw the marriage line back in your face.

If you go along with this, you'll never, ever be able to express disappointment, frustration, hurt feelings, because it'll always be turned back on you as to how it makes you an 'unsuitable' wife for him. Why would he ever marry you when as things stand right now, he has all the power? He'll just keep the promise of marriage dangling forever more, keeping you in line, and if you do want kids you'll either have them without being married, which leaves you very vulnerable, or you'll waste your fertile years with him. Keep your eyes wide open OP.

For the posters concerned I have no intention of getting pregnant without first getting married that has also been very clear.
i am just at a loss we had a great relationship theirs never been any real issues before this and even still we get on great 99% of the time but this sudden use of marriage as a reason for me to be completely placid and never express any negative emotion has set off alarm bells. But are they enough for me to give up 9 years of happiness

Sounds like you agree on the fundamentals but he's concerned about going ahead due to the health of your relationship at present.

Maybe he is expressing it clumsily, he sounds frustrated. I'd suggest some long talks and maybe some couples counselling to work on communication patterns, before either of you make any decisions on marriage.

I think you have articulated my feelings better than I can

He doesn't want marriage or DC yet Op, if at all. He's annoying you so you'll either stop asking or dump him. He was happy with future plans, no work or committment in those, but now he's got cold feet. You don't say how old you both are but that will have an impact on what you do next

But are they enough for me to give up 9 years of happiness

Sunk cost fallacy.

Bearing in mind his behaviour now @Allthegoodnamestakken , if you wouldn't want to divorce him, please don't marry him.

If he wanted to marry you, he would have done so by now. Instead, he's using it as leverage to control you. Leave. Don't waste any more time on him.

Marriage is being held over your head like a good conduct prize - do as you're told and stop nagging and he might think about rewarding you; although based on what you've written it's a bit of a mystery as to why you want to marry him. Imagine his response every time you want him to do something with the DC - that's your future.

Sadly I think he's not ready for marriage and he's being a twat about it. I would break up with him.

He thinks he's found your Achilles heel, and he is happy to exploit it. What better way to behave badly yet keep you off his back by threatening not to marry you and making you believe it's your fault because you're a nag. Clever boy, eh? 🙄

Of course he's manipulating you, and I think the only reason you think this relationship has been "happy" for so many years is because you've never laid down your expectations before.

I was married for a very long time. I thought it was a happy marriage with just a few arguments now and then. It got much worse over time, until I was effectively silenced to say anything even slightly critical about our marriage, or even to voice my own opinions.

My then ex in the past would often apologise (a little while after the row), and I would feel it was all resolved. But it wasn’t resolved, and it was all manipulation on his part.

A typical example: Once, he was supposed to pick me up from work at 1pm for a house viewing (I didn’t drive then). He never showed up. I finally managed to call him at work by about 4pm (pre mobile phone days). He said he’d been running late and hadn’t time to pick me up, and I was unreasonable to be pissed off with him. Now, he could easily have phoned me at work to tell me he was late and had decided to go solo before he left work, or at least phoned me as soon as he got back.

I actually now think he either forgot about me going with him, or forgot to go entirely. I didn’t at the time think to check with the estate agent, my ex just said the house was no good.

Most of the rows were over things like the one you describe. Not telling me things, not ringing to tell me he would be late, ALWAYS being late, letting me down, preferring to see friends and family instead of me, making arrangements without consulting me. His favourite phrase was “I hope you don’t mind but ………” then he would tell me something either he had committed himself to time/money etc, or something he had committed us to. This then meant I had to do something I had never asked to do, but I would also be the bad guy if I wanted to reverse the decision. And I’m talking about more than the usual give and take in a marriage.

The thing is, eventually I felt I couldn’t say anything because his immediate reaction was to tell me I’m the one at fault. He didn’t iintend to upset me, (therefore it’s unreasonable for me to be upset), I’m too sensitive, he’s given his word (to someone else), I’m being unreasonable, I’m a nag, I’m attacking him, I’m never happy, he doesn’t know how to make me happy.

It was all manipulation, manipulation, manipulation to keep things so that he could continue to do what he liked, when he liked and with whom he liked with no push back from me. He often said he loved me, but his actions meant that I felt very low priority to him. It’s destroyed my confidence and self esteem over the last 30 years.

I eventually saw a therapist and my eyes were opened.

Ask yourself do you think your DP thinks you are his equal? Can you analyse your past disagreements to see if there’s a pattern?

He is a future faking manipulative arsehole and is shaping up for a bit of coercive control. Move on, he is not as nice as you think.

If he wanted to marry you he would without these excuses and manipulation. I understand you have been together for 9 years but you cannot stay either him because of a great past when your present is shit.

The only man you should ever marry and give children to is one who immensely grateful for such a gift. Marriage and children take a lot out of you as a woman, there is no way to avoid it... the pregnancy, the birth, the child's reliance on you as a tiny baby, which then carries as they get older, the relentless guilt of working or not working whilst trying to be a good mother. Men simply do not experience it in the same way. So the only man who should ever receive this gift is one who fully appreciates it.

So this cock womble you are with who cannot even be courteous to your friends who are cooking you dinner, let alone you, is an appalling father candidate. LTB.

You don’t need any help with this one. You have nailed it in your own first post, he is absolutely using the threat of no marriage to get you to do what he wants and never challenge him.