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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Be there or leave him be even though I think I know his future?

63 replies

Tanaria · 03/02/2024 10:34

A young man I care about a lot, for many reasons. He is mid-20s now (I am late 30s, just for experience reference).

He used to be an elite athlete in his teens, but had to give that up eventually (when his performance did not measure up with others anymore) and get an everyday job, which he hates.

Has always been a bit of a loner (no real relationship yet, either), suicidal ideation, volunteers a bit around the career he no longer can have, but other than that has no social life to speak of. He often will just not respond to people's messages and decline days out, is depressed, but high-functioning. Sees his past self, where he was "on top" of everything, including being a high achiever in school, but now sees himself as a failure, which, together with his upbringing, explains why he often pushes people away, albeit politely. Wants to give up his current job, but has no future plans. Lives with his parents and hates socialising. Does show interest in exceptionally beautiful women and pushes away others who show an interest but aren't beautiful, so there is a shallow side to him.

Another man I know seems to show what this man's future could look like. Alone in a grotty bedsit, no friends, little contact with family, doesn't go out, has given up on his career because he has given in to his depression. Prefers to push friends away when he is in that state, just like the man above.

Both remind me of hedgehogs, curling up into a spiky ball when things overwhelm them in their lives. I am no longer in contact with the second man, however, I feel very protective over the former and a strong need to drag him out of his house kicking and screaming to show him what life can be like.

I know it's not my place to do so, but I care about him a lot. He knows I care about him and I make a continuous effort to keep in touch, but in a few months my opportunities to look after him will be greatly reduced for practical reasons. Then, it seems, he will have no one.

Should I leave him be and become the second man that I can easily see him turn into once he has pushed everyone away? Lonely and miserable, hating life and just waiting to die? Perhaps I'm wrong and he will snap out of it, but he said he's been like this his entire life. I'd have killed for someone to show me they care; I have been alone for other reasons, even if I wasn't always easy to love (platonically or otherwise). We have so much in common, too, mentally, that it feels wrong to just drop him. Seeing him like this makes me incredibly sad.

OP posts:
Orio2023 · 03/02/2024 10:42

Leave him be.

Tanaria · 03/02/2024 10:43

Even if there is a high chance he'll end up with no one in his life? I realise that, when it comes to patience with him, I am the exception.

OP posts:
Hadalifeonce · 03/02/2024 10:49

I have no experience of anything like this, but think I would ask him what he would like his future life to be like. If he does have some aspirations maybe you could offer help to try achieve that? (assuming it can be achieved)

Tanaria · 03/02/2024 10:59

He doesn't know (I asked). His sport, his achievements at school, are all he's ever been proud of. He seems fully lost, but has never had the skills to pull himself out of this himself.

OP posts:
MinervatheGreat · 03/02/2024 10:59

Perhaps you being away will give him head space to think about some aims and goals? Can you sew the seeds of that before you leave?

If you get too invested in this guy, whilst it’s admirable to care so much, you might come across as controlling?

You can paint as many pictures as you like about what a saddo future might look like for him but at the end of the day that’s his business. It might not be within your gift to be able to change that.

CeleryCeller · 03/02/2024 11:00

Can you suggest therapy?

Tanaria · 03/02/2024 11:04

Perhaps you being away will give him head space to think about some aims and goals? Can you sew the seeds of that before you leave?

While I am not overbearing, I am trying to help him with this and have offered support with anything he needs to further his skills, shape his CV and also get his social life together. I am not making suggestions for his career, but I am trying to drag him out on different events for his social side. He has accepted on the very odd occasion, but there is no pattern and more often than not it's a no because social life takes him out of his comfort zone.

OP posts:
Orio2023 · 03/02/2024 11:04

He lives with his parents so he’s not alone. He’s also quite young and has lots of time to change things if he wants to.

Unless he has asked you for help you need to rid yourself of ideas of rescuing or saving him. It’s his life, he gets to live it as he sees fit.

Orio2023 · 03/02/2024 11:07

He sounds like he could be ND.

You need to accept him as he is instead of trying to rescue and save. It’s not healthy on your part to do this.

BillionaireTea · 03/02/2024 11:08

I know a very similar man, who had a great career and has sort of totally dropped out and sits at home, on a cocktail of anti depressants and with no friends except a rotating door of hookup women. The problem with these guys is that there is a level of charisma and charm and real connection you can have with them, often quite intensely, as they are channelling all their need for human connection into brief and relatively superficial/disconnected relationships.

I don't know if your young man is a relative or (ex) partner or friend, but I get the same whiff of real and intense connection between you. The problem is, you are seeing it as indicating a need for a deeper and richer human life, that you could just bring him to. For him it's an outlet, or even a sticking plaster, not touching his deeper problems.

He might well drop out of human connection. It is a problem for men in our society and institutions of support for men have vanished (Church, clubs, unions, fraternal societies, sports groups).

I'm really sorry though, you can't save him. Only he can.

Tanaria · 03/02/2024 11:08

He's had therapy in the past. Says it didn't make a difference.

He is alone in the house with his parents. They're there, but not for him, if you see what I mean.

Maybe I am trying to rescue him, yes. But most people will not persevere, and he is heading for a road where he will be perpetually alone. The other person I knew, he regrets that bitterly. I don't want to see this man head for the same fate.

OP posts:
Tanaria · 03/02/2024 11:10

Orio2023 · 03/02/2024 11:07

He sounds like he could be ND.

You need to accept him as he is instead of trying to rescue and save. It’s not healthy on your part to do this.

We're both ND.

I accept him as he is. That's why I keep on trying to stay in contact. Make sure he knows someone is there for him.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 03/02/2024 11:10

I know it's not my place to do so

Quite. He needs to take responsibility for himself. He's not going to do that if people keep taking responsibility for him.

He's an adult. Let him lead his own life. People are allowed to be unhappy, unfulfilled etc, and make their own decisions about when to change that.

He's not your hedgehog.

Mycatsarethebest · 03/02/2024 11:13

Do you feel @Tanaria that this better life he could have would be with you?

MindHowYouGoes · 03/02/2024 11:17

His life is his problem. You say you’re ND - are you hyper focusing on him do you think?

Tanaria · 03/02/2024 11:18

Mycatsarethebest · 03/02/2024 11:13

Do you feel @Tanaria that this better life he could have would be with you?

Not necessarily, just with someone there for him. Without me right now, he doesn't have that. His family cannot, for many reasons, and he pushed other friends away quite deliberately. If I let go, too, he'll be alone.

I had a long time of being involuntarily alone, which plays a role here, because it was excrutiating for me. I'd hate for him to end up like that, just like the other man I know.

If he finds someone else who has that patience, or even a girlfriend, I'm happy to back off. I just don't like the thought of leaving him without anyone in his safety net, which is what it would be right now.

OP posts:
Octavia64 · 03/02/2024 11:19

An awful lot of late teens early twenties people struggle when they realise that for whatever reason they are not going to achieve their childhood dream.

Dragging them out socially rarely achieves much as they need to take time to work out what they want in life.

I worked in a 11-18 school for a long time and this is really, really, really common.

Most people get over it in time. They really don't all become like your other friend.

Nanny0gg · 03/02/2024 11:19

Tanaria · 03/02/2024 11:04

Perhaps you being away will give him head space to think about some aims and goals? Can you sew the seeds of that before you leave?

While I am not overbearing, I am trying to help him with this and have offered support with anything he needs to further his skills, shape his CV and also get his social life together. I am not making suggestions for his career, but I am trying to drag him out on different events for his social side. He has accepted on the very odd occasion, but there is no pattern and more often than not it's a no because social life takes him out of his comfort zone.

Has he seen a counsellor? Would he?

Tanaria · 03/02/2024 11:20

MindHowYouGoes · 03/02/2024 11:17

His life is his problem. You say you’re ND - are you hyper focusing on him do you think?

Very likely. Like I said, we have a lot in common, so I understand a lot of his personality traits. He's like a young me, but I didn't push people away (quite the opposite, I craved companionship, but didn't have anyone despite trying), but in every other aspect that was me 20 years ago. I am aware that'll skew my motivation.

OP posts:
Duckingella · 03/02/2024 11:21

Women are not rehab centres for lost men.

You're ND you need to be looking after yourself.

Walk away.

Tanaria · 03/02/2024 11:23

@Octavia64 This is not your average, lost teen. I know the difference (I work with young people, too).

@Nanny0gg He has, many times, says it didn't help, so stopped again.

The consensus seems to be leave him be. I know why, and I know that I need to look after myself. It's hard seeing someone you care about fall apart like this, though, over and over again.

OP posts:
Octavia64 · 03/02/2024 11:25

Sounds like he sees himself as a victim and you see yourself as a rescuer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpmandramaa_triangle

WellThatEsculatedQuickly · 03/02/2024 11:27

What is your relationship to him? Friend? Sibling? Ex?

Why does it have to be so black and white?.....as in leave him or be very intensely involved in helping him? Can you just be friends with him how he is now, if the relationship is not harmful to you and you enjoy his company?

Watchkeys · 03/02/2024 11:31

He's had therapy in the past. Says it didn't make a difference

So he's had professionals trying to help and they couldn't? But you think you can?

I'm curious to know where you learned this habit yourself, this caring-too-much thing.

What was your upbringing like? Did you have to care for a parent, or siblings? Was there always someone at home who had greater needs than you? Were you relied on when you were too young?

There's a reason he'll end up on his own if you 'leave him', and that's the fact that other people have healthy boundaries, and understand more clearly how to support someone. You never have to 'leave him'; you will always be there if he calls, right? Adults don't 'drag' other adults out into the world, 'for their own benefit'. He has a job, he has his parents. Make sure he knows you're there, and let him come to you. Let him be who he is.

Orio2023 · 03/02/2024 11:31

You are clearly projecting your own experience on him.

Nobody wants to be dragged out op. If he doesn’t like socialising at the moment that’s ok. It’s not your place to decide it’s something he needs to do and to pressure him to do it. No means no.

You don't know his future. You are imagining that you have the ability to influence him or change his life and you just don’t.

Either accept him as he is and be a proper friend or leave him alone. He’s not a younger you and all this pressuring and fixing is really unhealthy.