Tired and sad dad, carrying everything.

[TiredLovingDad]

Hi,

I'm not a native english speaker so bare with me:P

I live with my wife and two kids in a European country. My wife is from another country and we moved back to my country about seven years ago. My wife has gone to school to learn the language, but she isn't making much effort to really get integrated. If something was to happen to me today, she wouldn't be able to deal with things herself. I think I have always felt that she lacked bit of the "go" needed to get things done, and instead justs let me deal with everything. More on this coming.

Our kids are four and eight, and is the only reason I'm still in this relationship at this point. She loves the kids, but still let's me deal with everything. She cooks maybe once every few days and cleans their clothes, and somewhat think this is enough to justify me doing literally everything else. I'm the one getting their teeth brushed and getting them to bed. I'm the one that gets them up in the morning, gets them dressed, gives them breakfast and drives them to their respective schools. Maybe my wife has a tiring job and therefore needs to have her rest you might think? No, she have barely worked a single day since we got together. Me on the other hand, I run my own small company with a few employees, I work a lot. I work between 8am to 5pm whilst the kids are in school, then I normally work between 9pm and 1am when the kids are sleeping. I work from home as its online based, and I get the feeling my wife thinks its not a real job, since i'm just at the computer and home.

This morning I asked my wife if she could help me get the youngest one up from bed. She got grumpy and did NOT help me, instead when into the bedroom, closed the door and went back to sleep.

I'm so so sad, and don't know what to do, I don't want to continue like this. If she was well integrated I would have left her already. But if I leave her, I can't trust that she does her part when it comes to the kids. She isn't mean to the kids, but I just can't trust that she is there for all their needs. Also I have the feeling it wouldn't be a "friendly" separation. Atm I have kind of been thinking, wait til the kids get a bit older, old enough to decide for themself who they want to live with.

I'm trying to push her to do things. She says she want to work, she want to do this and that. But nothing gets done. She have a job since one month now, about half time, but she is already complaining and saying she want to apply to some education instead (which she has said before but never done). And this week she has called in sick because she thinks its to early and cold to go to the bus...

Aside from her not doing her part at home, she is also very negative as a person. Nothing is ever good. She likes to see the bad in things rather than the good and positive.

I have tried to talk with her many times, but she only gets super angry. I don't know how to get her to understand or what to do.

/ Sad and tired Dad.

Oh come on op. What do you expect when you work between 12 and 13 hours a day!

In your long post you don’t mention your personal relationship with your wife once! It’s interesting how you summarise your relationship in terms of all the things you do and all the things she is not doing at all, or well enough. That’s quite cold imho.

You accuse her of being negative and yet you haven’t mentioned one personal attribute of hers that you love! It doesn’t sound like you like her at all, never mind love her, all of your comments are massively negative towards her.

You say she has hardly worked a day and yet now her youngest is four, she has gone back to work presumably in a language not her own.

Maybe your relationship is the most important thing to your wife and she feels like she doesn’t have a strong connection to you?

Maybe she feels happy with her friends because they are there for her and yet she feels lonely inside your marriage?

I may be biased as I am an immigrant to another country and my husband works long hours. But it is far from easy living in a foreign country when you have young dc and are trying to learn a language and work pt too. Everything is x3 more exhausting than usual. And if your primary relationship isn’t strong then that colours the rest of your experience.

If you want to fix this: instead of making a tick list of all the things she doesn’t do, why not look at things from her pov for a change? Think how she would score you in terms of the quality of your relationship?

Do you take the time to communicate well with her? How will she learn to handle things on her own if you hardly have time to talk properly?

Does she collect the dc from school every day and keep them entertained until you get home from work? Do you go out together as a family at weekends? Is she left alone every evening while you work on your computer?

Do you ever take her out? Tell her that she is loved?

Right now she is probably thinking, I moved country for this man and he is either never here, or he ignores me.

I agree that love is a verb but equally no one likes to think that their relationship is based purely on a tick list of their achievements with one person appointing themselves judge and jury.

Sorry op but you sound quite cold and negatively critical to me. Especially if you consider that your wife may have depression and anxiety.

My advice would be to try and overcome your resentment and focus on your personal relationship with your wife by working less and paying her some attention and from that one action, you may see a whole host of improvements grow.

Seriously?!!

Some posters will do ANYTHING to make the situation a man's fault.

Regardless of her relationship with the OP, she can care for her DC, can't she? And she may have depression. Many people do, including many mothers. Very very many of them manage their depression & look after their DC, hard as that is. Having depression doesn't mean you don't need to take responsibility.

My advice would be to try and overcome your resentment and focus on your personal relationship with your wife by working less and paying her some attention and from that one action, you may see a whole host of improvements grow.

Imagine typing such trite silly words & ignoring all the specific detail the OP provides 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

Depressed my arse
She is LAZY

We are entitled to our differing opinions on here. That is how a chat site works.

I think it’s interesting that you feel the need to describe my lived experience as “trite and silly”.

Is it not possible for you to disagree respectfully?

Your English is great. I do feel you are being taken advantage of. Your wife needs to di her share and support you too

As I have mentioned, she is nearly fluent in the language. She literally has friends speaking my language that she socialize with multiple times per week.

I am the one that has been trying to keep the relationship going. On all fronts. And I don't work on the weekends. On the weekend I try to get us to do things as a family. It always ends up with me doing something with the kids, whilst wife go shopping with her friends or just says she to tired to go.

You think I havn't tried? My motivation to work on us a as a couple is dimishing everyday. I have a hard time feeling for someone that doesn't even seem to want to take care of her own kids. No matter how mine and my wife's relationship, as man and wife, is, shouldn't warrant her to ignore her responsibility as a parent, do you agree?

As mentioned earlier, I asked her kindly, to help me get the youngest up from bed this morning. She got pissed, after a while she left the home and went to town, its now 7pm, kids been home since a few hours, and not a word from her. She didn't bother telling where she was going, or when she would be back. Is this a valid reaction for ur husband asking her to help with her kids during the morning? When I asked her she was laying in the sofa with an iPad.

I don't see how this is my fault.

@Froggywentawalking234 as someone who is living in a similar set up, I agree with you about how hard it is.

When the OP says his dwife didn’t speak the language, I thought she hadn’t learnt anything at all. But it turns out she speaks the language, just not quite fluently.

I also agree that working such long hours, there isn’t any space for her to feel seen. Or that she matters at all. I doubt many posters would be happy with their dh working all hours like this.

Im also noticing he mentions that his dwife has a job (maybe a tiring one) but that he is the only who brings money in. Which one is it? Is that he thinks whatever his wife earns is simply not worth vs what he is earning? (Low vs high wage)

Which then brings us to another question
Is the dwife really not bothering at all with the dcs, doing any work in the house etc…? Or is it a case of the OP feeling like he us doing it all when he isn’t (a feeling often shared by other men who feel like they do everything because they’ve cooked a meal or change a nappy).

Personally, I think he is unhappy.
He wants people to confirm it’s ok for him to leave. And to put the blame on her.
But I dint think he has thought that through. No mention of the dcs and what would happen if they were divorced. Just that he wouldn’t be financially worse off.
But the reality of the situation is much more complex than that.

My earlier comment about the fact he is choosing how his life will look like (married vs divorce) still stand.

@TiredLovingDad from my own experience,

When you are feeling lonely, unseen and unheard by your partner for long enough, you look for other ways to meet your needs. Needs for connexion for example. This is even more true when you are in a foreign country wo support network. This could well explained why she is spending so much time meeting up with friends. I mean she wouldn’t be speaking to another adult otherwise all week right?

Whilst it might be that NOW, your dwife has checked out, please bear in mind she might have checked out because there was no space left for her in your agenda. From your description, even now, all your time is divided by work and the dcs. Nothing fir her as a person (I’m thinking time to relax together to watch a film, cuddle etc etc NOT massive things such a date nights and whatever)

My wife has been nearly fluent in the language for the past four years. The kids have been in school for 3-3.5, when the youngest started kindergarten.

During this time, my wife has done nothing really. She enjoying time with her friends, shopping etc. I'm working quite a lot (but as said not during weekends), and I kind of have to right? Do you think its easy to provide for a family on a sole income? The dealbreaker for me is that she neglect the kids. I can be ok with my wife being a bit lazy and not wanting to work if she just cared more for the kids. She loves them but it resembles more of how a relationship between grandparents and grandkids could be, u know, u get the fun without "the bad". Like she can cuddle and hug them, then leave the actual work for me.

And re. work, yes I mentioned my wife started a job recently, about one month ago. But she been complaining about it since, and now she have been calling in sick for the a week because its cold outside so she doesn't want to wake up early and go to the bus.

As mentioned, my wife cooks a meal every other day, and sure she does most of the laundry. But I'm not lying when I say I do practically all of the rest. I have had several family members or ppl close to the family question things even. Ppl notice. I have defended her every time. This is the first time I'm even opening up/talking with anyone about it.

Op has I said before I have depression but I do all the stuff for my children and keep my house running I'm sorry she's lazy and quiet frankly a rubbish mother she prioritise going out with her friends then spending enjoyable time with her children I think you would be happier without the burden off looking after her as well as looking after your children put yourself first and get rid off her good luck

Cmon. She is an adult. She speaks the language almost fluently. She has had the last 3.5 years to at least try doing anything. I have always put kids and wife first, and if I didn't have to do 90% of the work as parent by myself, I'm pretty sure I would have more energy to work on the relationship. I'm extremely tired. Take a normal day:

Me:
Wake up first, prepares breakfast for the kids. Wakes the kids up. Dresses the kids. Brush their teeth. Make sure they eat some breakfast. Take them to their schools/kindergarten. Get back home, now 2.5 hours have passed, it's about 9am. I make some coffee and sit down to work. 4pm, I get ready to go and pickup the kids. Back at 5:30pm. I start fixing some food since mostly my wife won't. 7pm, food. Then it's time to get the kids ready for bed. Teeth gets brushed etc. About 8pm they are ready. I help them get to bed, and maybe 8.30 they are asleep if Im lucky. Now Im extremely tired, but as the only one bringing in any money I most of the time have to get some more work done.

Her (anyday this week when she called in sick whilst not being sick):
Wake up around when it's time for the kids to leave the house. Makes herself a coffee and sits down in the sofa. Does nothing til lunch, makes herself some food, eats, then does nothing or potentially she goes into town to shop or meet some friend. Every two days or so she does a few machines of laundery. If she is home when the kids gets back she mite kiss and hug them a bit before its time to go back doing nothing.

I'm not even exaggerating, this is how it is most of our days. How much energy do you think I have, to give here attention or suggest some cozy time.

In the end, no matter how our relationship is, she should help in caring for the kids.

As I'm writing and talking about this I wonder more and more how I have been putting up with this. Some more things.

As I mentioned, my wife have gotten a job recently, last month. I was happy since I wouldn't have to take the full burden of the economy, and thus, not needing to work quite as much. She still thinks I should be the one dealing with the finances, and that this extra money is for her to save or use as pocket/shopping money.

When we was at her home country for holiday for two months last year. She would leave us and be with her friends most of the time. I totally get she wants to catch up. But when we are talking.. from her waking up to often late, past midnight, almost everyday of the holiday, it's not OK imo. I was taking the kids out for dinner and food myself. And we had arguments about this during the holiday. But she just don't seem to understand, or she understand but doesn't care.

Well, she may well be depressed but depression is not an excuse for being a shitty parent and partner.

I think you should consider an ultimatum - step up and do more/ see a doctor, or we separate.

You're in YOUR home country so she can't take the kids and leave. I'd also be thinking about what you need to put in place to ensure that the fact that you're the DC's primary carer is well documented (the assumption would be that with a SAHP, that parent is the default carer so you'll have to prove that it's not true - the fact that you do all the school runs will help. I assume you are the one who liaises with the school? That would help too.) It may be that you need to speak to a solicitor to get advice as well.

But either way, this relationship isn't making you happy and it sounds like she's not exactly a large presence in your children's lives either so if she's not willing to deal with the reasons for that (whatever they may be) you have to protect yourself and your children.Also, re financial concerns - the financial implication of divorce just grows the longer you put it off. So do it sooner rather than later if that's what you have to do.

So this hasn't happened over night. Why on earth have you both allowed this to happen. Was she ill when the babies were young? I mean when did it start?

It's a very bizarre arrangement and I'm sorry but from what you tell us, there is no reason for you to feel obligated to her. You are obligated to the children to do what you can to make the relationship work but if she won't discuss matters and doesn't want to make any changes then why on earth would you stay? Honest to God...I can't figure out why you would stay.

It doesn't sound as though there is any relationship. She has no respect for you. Feels no obligation towards mothering. No obligation towards bringing income to the home. No obligation to look after the home in terms of cleaning etc etc.

You need to go and see a solicitor and make plans. Make sure you are absolutely clear re legal rights etc over children and house etc etc, any savings.

It just seems so bizarre. I know a few lazy arse parents but she needs to run a masterclass.

The stuff she does in the house are all non contact, ie cooking and laundry have no need to converse or interact with any of you. Does she play, read with or do anything at all with the children?

It honestly sounds as if separation would be in everyone’s interests. What would you lose? Resentment probably.

Finally, have you had a proper and honest conversation with her and how does she explain all of this?

I wouldn’t be surprised if she suddenly stepped up if you did separate. It might waked her up and force her into working and adulting.

Gosh I feel you OP. The fact some on here are claiming its depression, it may be but sounds more like its been going on for so long she has normalised it, and sees no fault in it now.

Some people are just not cut out to be parents, and thats not something you can force someone into being.

You sound furstrated, unhappy and unheard.

Get legal advise, then set yourself a timeframe, and then have the conversation with her that this is not partnership, its a sometimership, sometimes she is bothered, sometimes she is not, sometimes she is around, and sometimes she isnt. Not a partnership. You get one life, and by the sounds of things your kids would be better off left with you. But this is obviously something you two will have to discuss. It will not be easy to sit someone down for the 100th time and be blunt that you are at your very end in this partnership.

You deserve to get heard, seen and acknowledged in your relationship, you deserve more than the bare minimum. So you your children.

Set yourself a timeframe of what you like to happen, how you see the future and what it may look like without her in it.

The odd thing is that once a parent has to take some accountability its astounding how quickly they rise up to the task when they know they are facing divorce due to lack of care. You decide, its your life too. You do not have to put up with this, you are allowed to leave a relationship.

It might surprise you to find out that if you decide to leave, that you will be much happier and settled with less workload without such a drag of a parent and partner. There is more to life than this.

She does the occasional cuddling and hugging with the kids, kiss them and say she love them. But she rarely actually DO anything with them. When we go and do something as a family, be it going to the local kids playland for example, you can tell she doesn't want to be there, and sometimes she leaves early or goes to the nearby mall to look at clothes til we are done and such, instead of trying to enjoy the time with the kids.

The youngest one has til the last six months or so been "mommas girl", she been wanting to sleep with mom, and mom "is the favourite". But as she been growing she lately almost only wants to be with me. "Papa is more fun". The oldest one I don't think he would really care much if it was just me, him and his sister. it's sad to say but thats how it is.

I have tried to have proper conversations, as in, not only bringing it up when in an argument. But she always get very defensive and angry. She has always had a tendency to blame other ppl for things, even if there is no need to blame anyone. It always turn into me being the bad guy. One example of her need to blame ppl might be if the youngest has gotten a scratch from playing outside at kindergarten. Like kids do, they play, the fall, they stand up, they continue to play. A normal person wouldn't get upset with this. But she will deem the teachers and the school as incompetent idiots for not being there the same second, ready to grab the kid from falling. That's the kind of vibe she brings into a conversation/argument. She won't admit she is doing anything wrong, it's always someone else's fault.

I wasn’t saying it was your fault alone op. Not at all. I was offering alternative opinions which is what I thought you may have wanted having posted on here.

If it’s all so black and white and clear cut and she is as disengaged as you say , then no, there isn’t any reason to stay married, nor is there anything to debate really, unless you are holding on to some emotional attachment to her, which it doesn’t sound like you are?

It seems like you have already decided that there is no way forward for your relationship. So, very respectfully, I don’t really understand your dilemma. Unless you just want posters to agree with you about how awful she is and validate your decision?

it all sounds so strange tbh. Are you sure she doesn’t do more things that you just don’t notice or value? She obviously has some work ethic if she learned the language.

To be fair to you, the socialising with friends, even in the evening when the dc are home, does not sound like someone with depression.

Did you come to a decision jointly about your working hours and you working from home most of the day? Is she out so much because she needs her own space?

Did you have a discussion about how the finances would work in your marriage?

Out of interest, how much input did she have in the way you structure your life generally? Did you discuss everything together? Does she have equal power in your relationship to speak up? Does she have agency within the family? Is her voice heard? In other words, have you taken the lead so much that she feels she doesn’t have a foot in the game? And anything she does or says doesn’t really matter? Could that possibly be her reason for opting out?

I am asking these questions not in an accusatory way but simply to suggest possible reasons for her behaviour having lived as an expat in my dh’s country.

No, I absolutely do not think she should avoid her responsibilities as a parent, but as I know myself, it is far from easy engaging with a school system that is unfamiliar to you, and I think it is all too easy for the parent whose country is “home” to them, to underestimate on all fronts how much time and energy it takes to learn and engage with a totally different ways of doing things. She absolutely should try though.

Obviously, none of us on here can make an accurate judgement about a situation you are in , better than you can do yourself op. If friends and family are commenting then perhaps she is just a lazy so and so and a freeloader.

Before you pull the plug though, can you have a final non-accusatory conversation with her, one to one, on neutral territory about how you are feeling and that you are thinking of divorce? Give her a chance to put her side? And really listen to her?

Good luck with your decision.

Sorry if I came out overly defensive. But honestly, I needed to vent a bit, creating this thread. And yes I might felt I needed someone to just, agree and listen. Nothing is ever 100% black and white, and I'm sure there are a lot of things I should have done differently as a husband. But it does not matter when it comes to the kids. NO MATTER how tough something is, how unhappy u might be, you never neglect ur children. That doesn't exist in my world. And this is coming from someone who have suffered from severe depression and anxiety, so I know how it is.

Re. ur questions. I think that mite be part of the problem. I have given her too much voice and agency, to the point that I'm just there to be taken advantage of. I would say I often think too much of other people's feeling and how they would react to something. Even in the midst of one of our many arguments I will hold back, and not say something that would hurt her feelings, whilst she has no such boundaries vs me. She has quite the temperament if she gets angry "sees black", so I've often let things slide rather than start an argument. She can be scary then tbh. And yeh, this has probs lead to her thinking she can do(or not do) whatever she wants.

I'm pretty much decided that I will leave her. I just keep visualising things like, her taking the kids to her country without my knowledge and things like that, manipulating the kids and what not. I'm bit scared and not sure in what way to go about it.

I understand op. It’s a big decision to make and a huge change; it’s natural to approach it with trepidation.

The way you describe her in your update, sounds totally different to how I imagined her to be. When you said you were trying to “push her to do things” I thought she was lacking in confidence so I apologise on my part for any misunderstanding.

I think the way forward is to find a lawyer skilled in expat divorce. He will advise you as to how to proceed.

Do you think your wife has any idea of how you are feeling? So often on here we hear the wife’s side of things and how she had no idea that their dh was intending to leave? It sounds like you have tried to talk to her so she’s obviously not completely unaware that you are unhappy. Equally though if you are working more than 12 hours a day and she’s out a lot, then it’s reasonable to assume that the communication between you may not be optimum.

Is it not worth a conversation at least?

I think it’s interesting that you feel the need to describe my lived experience as “trite and silly”.

Except I didn't do that, did I? I described your comments where you told OP to make more of an effort with his wife in order that a wonderful transformation would take place as 'trite & silly'.

I made no mention of your 'lived experience '.

And when someone bends so far over backwards to create a narrative where it's a man's fault, no matter what, as you castigate him throughout, I'll absolutely disagree in no uncertain terms.

Hth

Firstly the op is perfectly capable of defending himself and has done so and we have had a perfectly civil and reasonable discussion about it without you policing the thread.

Second you didn’t just say that did you? What you actually said was:

Imagine typing such trite silly words & ignoring all the specific detail the OP provides 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

which was unnecessarily mocking in its tone.

Third, “my lived experience” informed my answer. i didn’t make up a narrative. I actually used examples of my past life to try and explain the wife’s behaviour. In my opinion it’s perfectly valid to put forward a few suggestions which could potentially represent the wife’s position on a thread such as this.

Ideally your wife should see her doctor as she seems to be acting depressed.
Try to leave your wife to do the child care. Move your computer to an office and stop working from home. Have a frank discussion about what is required for the children each day and write their schedule up on a chart for your wife. Leave her to do all of the childcare after breakfast.

You ask the kids to get up and make their breakfast and go off to work. Only when she has to be responsible will she learn the skills and learn all that you do.
She will have to make their lunch make sure the kids have everything in their bags and are not late for school.
You wash your own clothes and those of your children. Leave her to wash her own. You cook a meal for the kids on the nights when your wife works. Help put the youngest to bed and brush her teeth.
Help clean the house just for half a day every weekend.
Ignore if the meals are crap, if the house is untidy or if the kids don't shower every day.
Leave your wife to do as much as you can and be out of the house when the kids are home after school and before school so that your wife has to motivate herself.
Your oldest will tell you if they are late to school she will ask her mother to not be late and to lift her game.

Insist that your wife and kids go and visit her relatives sometimes. She needs to feel capable and responsible for caring for the kids and to take them there.

Sorry you are going through this.
She's neglecting the children.
That would be a deal breaker for me.
Seek legal help and ask her to move out.