Just can't bear this anger against my own mother

[Flight]

I'm sorry. It feels like I might just blow, and I don't know why it's so intense.

She and dad got back today from a short break, and it is her birthday - they came over this morning and we gave her presents, then they took Ds1 off for an hour and a half.

Fine so far. But later I rang her to mention a couple of things I'd forgotten - relevant things - and Ds1 grabbed the phone and asked her to come and see his new transformer.

Well he always does this, I didn't hear the upshot but she and I spoke more afterwards and she didn't mention anything. In fact we said 'see you Tuesday' etc etc. as she has him sometimes on a Tues.

So an hour or so later she arrives at the door. She lives 2 minutes up the road, so it wasn't a big journey - she came in, saying she wouldn't stay long - just came to see the toy.
I said it was Ok.
They get playing while I am sitting with Ds2 at the computer, finishing off something.
She starts making a new 'invention' with Ds1, and as I've finished with the Pc and turn it off, I am sitting there quietly when she starts suggesting making something else to ds1.
We were planning to go out to sainsburys and I am just sitting there being ignored by them both - it always happens, I try and say anything when she's here playing with him and it goes unheard.
Also we have issues over joint discipline/management of behaviour, and it is generally very stressful her eing here at all - she knows this as we discussed it clearly last week. However she seems to have forgotten.
I made a 'no, not really' face at her, as I wanted to get them ready and go out.
She then starts to say she is going, and stands up and asks me what's up.
I said I would talk to her later. I didn't want to argue in front of the boys.
ds1 was clearly uncomfortable and I had to tell him after she had walked out that I was just not getting on to well with Grandma, and it wasn't his fault.
She left her bag behind, meaning again that she would have to come back.

I don't know why I felt so angry with her.
I really don't know. But what I have noticed is that she always, always, without fail, starts a fight on her return from a holiday.
I always look after their pets, they buy us a little gift, all seems fine, and then wham, she finds something to have a fight about.
I think she has an issue with going away. She knows I need her help, but before going she asks if she should ring from wherever they're going, and I always say no, please don't because I build up a coping mechanism while they are not around to help, and it disturbs that.
I think she feels scared without me, actually. She can't bear it if I cope, and can't bear it if I am doing Ok and might leave.
I am so cross at her for undermining me and trying to start a fight, and it's making me fume inside, but I know that's what she wants. bizarrely.

Does anyone else's mother have weird attachment problems or is it just mine?

Please don't tell me I'm an ungrateful cow, as I already feel like that most of the time

What upsets me is her behaving as though I am not the adult in my home, and not the one to make basic decisions about my own family's activities and so on...I think that's it, anyway.

flight-

this is classic emotional abuse, its designed to keep you alienated.

The thing to 'try' (cos I know its hard to do) and keep in mind is that this is about all 'her' not you.

What Im saying is....You are a competent, great mother...and this is what 'she' should be telling you.

Instead she persists in undermining you, and that's about 'her' insecurities and her needs. This isnt loving flight.

You'd do well do gain some emotional distance from this woman. I know its tough cos she's your mum.

But you're a mum now and you need to put your needs and needs of 'your' family unit first.

Oh bugger. You see I've been building up to this for a little while now. I keep telling myself I'm imagining it and she's so helpful wtc etc - and sometimes she is great, and we talk a lot and it's fine. It's just the undermining, it comes back again and again, and I have always thought I have to put up with it because she is all the support I have iyswim.

But I can see it's damaging us as a family. It really is.

How to get away, is the question - I'm moving away, if the house works out, and if it doesn;t I'll find another.

Scared to go to a new town but at leats it's across the city from her so that might feel better.

I feel very at her even fantasising about this! And I wasnt even thinking along those lines at all.

No Im not sure about her taking your children but she is insiduously affecting your life, and I would even hazard a guess that she has serously limited your potential in life over the years.

Yep we generally go for parrners just like our toxic parents. We mimic that relationship.

Having a lightbulb moment like you are having now can change this pattern though!

You dont have to be rash- just having awareness will help you. its a great start.

You need to build your self esteem up flight. There are many ways you begin this process.

Reading, keeping a journal...writing on here, counselling.

Ok. Smithy you're brilliant.
Got to go and check out that house but will think about everything you've said. Thankyou for sparing the time to talk me through this.

Hope the house hunting goes really well - which town do you live in any mners around to build some new friendships with?

Some great advice on here, Flight.

I hope that you find a house soon and get away from her.

You sound like a great mum and it is so sad to hear how she undermines your confidence and makes you doubt yourself.

Tbh, I don't think you should talk it all through with her. Find a house, get set for moving and tell her about it when it is all finalised. You are giving her the opportunity to talk you out of it.

Flight - come onto our thread she really has got you confused! Don't worry about reading it all first, if you get the jist that's enough, just post.

For books try Toxic Parents by Susan Forward, Healing your emotional self by Beverley Engel, unfortuanately her book 'divorce a parent' is out of print, but it is available on amazon (v expensive tho).

If you pop onto the thread for regular support and validation it should/could help you shift the balance in your relationship, and make the break/separation. And remember...there's no such thing as 'can't' what your mum really means is 'won't'.

Thankyou very much...I'll be along shortly

She still hasn't emailed. She said she would likely have Ds1 early this afternoon, but didn't ring, and hasn;'t emailed like she said she would.
I'm starting to get the fear now a little bit.
She's punishing me for having the balls to stand up to her and tell her I was moving, rather than ask her if she thought it was a good idea.

I feel pretty sick about it now.

This is what it's like leaving a difficult boyfriend. I know it well. Never realised how immediate the parallel was. Treading on eggshells and all that.

The thing is, I have no one else to turn to - nobody like family around to help or even just listen. I'm so glad to have MN. But what about when I really need help with practical things, who will I turn to.

Where do you live, do you go to toddler groups & stuff. You can make friends it takes guts & taking risks but you can do it - honest!

Yes she is punishing you all the more reason to move away asap.

Thanks Cargirl (how's the new bug? has it arrived?)
I am scared of toddler groups, actually - really I am. I tried going to a couple with Ds1, and it was so cliquey...I felt like an outsider. Not very good at making conversation let alone friends. (years of being told that, anyway)
I do have a few friends now, with children - two families and a few mums I talk to on the street, but don't really go to each other's houses. I'm Ok with that really, at the moment anyway.
Just need to work out how to manage the practical stuff if I'm not seeing her so much. I think it might be Ok, just appointments etc will be hard.
God this is when I start to wish I had a DH!

making friends, inviting them around etc is how you then build a support network to help you out with appointments etc. I know it's hard at first but with practice it does get easier.

whereabouts are you flight?

The fear you are feeling Flight is childhood fear, when she was bigger and more powerful than you and able to to withhold the neccesities of life. However you are now equally physically the size of her (I presume!) and you are able to look after yourself. What is the worst she can do? And if you come up with a lot of things, as an adult how can you respond to that? Your not a child to just sit back and let her abuse you anymore, you are on an equal footing now. She does not come into your house if you don't want her to. You don't have to read any, presumably, hurtful emails. As an adult you have that choice and a right not to open the door or an email! If she is hurting you, whether she is your mother or not, you have a right and a duty to protect yourself so you are able to look after your children.

As for practicalities, perhaps send dc to a nursery once a week so you know that they are familiar with it and can go when you have appointments? Sorry, all I can think of!

Thankyou
Still no word...I can picture her ringing tomorrow or maybe tonight, and telling me that actually she is really angry with me for saying those things and they are not true, blah blah. That's what she does when she's had a chance to regroup.
Yes, I can see it's childhood fear. It's pretty potent though isn't it? Do any of you get that awful stomach upset feeling when you say no to your parents?
I have it whenever I leave a relationship. Or whenever someone is in conflict with me.

Warthog, I'm in East Kent - there are a few Mners around here, we nearly had a meet up last week but nobody could come!

I am afraid that if I ask friends for help like looking after the children, I will be unable to offer the same to them as my house is chaotic and messy, and they seem to avoid coming here.

I find it extremely hard to keep on top of things as a single mother.

Part of me knows that if I get away from my mother though, I won't feel so compelled to fail - I'll be able better to manage the house. I really feel that.

But maybe I can get away from her in my head, rather than having to move - if we see her less and I refuse to take her rubbish.
I'm confused as to how to avoid being hurt like this - does it mean seeing her less often, telling her less of my news (I am used to telling her everything ) or actually putting physical distance in place so I learn I can manage without her 'help'?

Trying to find an ethos with which to work/develop a plan iyswim.

How are you feeling today, Ally?

I suppose I just have to get her out of my head. She is taking up far too much space! I need to forget about her on a daily basis and not share everything with her -only to have it thrown back in my face as she disapproves/worries irrationally/puts behaviours onto me (' yes but can you afford it?''How much are you spending?' ' You need to be careful you don't stop eating again' etc) Oh and 'I'm anxious for him, you sound so cold when you tell him off, almost like you hate him, how's he going to grow up alright when he gets no love?'

god, what a poisonous woman.

i think you have to distance her in your mind first and foremost. yes, not seeing her as often, not speaking on the phone so much, in face seeing her only when it's strictly necessary.

the house move will help, but that's not going to happen immediately so you need a coping mechanism for the next couple of months.

unfortunately i'm nowhere near you.

Flight - re house...try this thread changes everyday tho. Wonderful wonderful website it links to - FlyLady. It focuses on ignoring that negative parental voice that says you can do nothing right and doing the housework anyway, 15 minutes a day on various spots in the house and it all comes down to FLY - finally loving yourself...its american but it works for me, when I get round to doing it negative voice very loud at the moment! If you get into it, let me know...we can do our own 'ignore the mother and do the housework anyway' group Sakura sounded interested in it too...

Physically moving away will stop her coming round all the time. However you will take her parental voice with you however far you travel...imagine being on the moon...you'd still hear her complaining in one ear that you weren't the best person to go . If you are phsically distant you can also change your phone number and not give it to her, you can change your email address. I found it a great relief to send a letter to my mother saying I did not want to be in contact with her. It does relieve the pressure, but then you have to deal with the internalised mother voice which is a challange. Therapy works for some, I personally am ending my therapy for now after 3.5 years and going to do more self help books, working on beveley engles - healing your emotional self (or something like that). It works on 'mirror therapy'. Looking at the mirror given to you by your mother ie ugly fat stupid and looking at you as you are now. The above is the mirror given to me by my adorable sister and my mother. Lovely.

Anyway...rambling now, I think physical distance helps separating you from her. But you need to work on that internal voice. Its difficult not impossible to do. Just lots of will power and determination that she will not rule the rest of your life. And she won't, cause you've found the stately homes thread...and know you've got 24/7 support and validation

Oh and the child voice is very powerful...but you need to nurture it...agree that mother is threatening and frightening but you (your adult self) is there to protect her now. Sometimes works for me...sometimes doesn't. Try being logical and rationalising it all. HOw would you deal with an adult that was not your mother?

And saying no to my mother tended to get me shaking as she argued back...she would get more ferocious when she felt my backbone...should have carried on standing up to her but let her win...it seemed easier at the time. But in the long run its like a toddler tantruming to get what they want...give in once and it takes twice as long next time to win with them.

As for your emails - don't look!! If you see one...what will you achieve by reading it? How will you feel? Will there be any vital information there that you don't already know? I really want to open stuff from my mother...knowing she still needs me...but I don't now...it makes me feel bad and it achieves only that. We have choices on how to react and we can choose to detach from our mothers behaviour. Okay...I've had some practice... but you dont' have to open email or answer the phone. ANd you don't have to discuss your move further. Who is the adult in your house? YOU. Not your mother.

hope some of that helps...

It will be really helpful once I can find the courage to come out from under this table, Ally

Seriously, yes, I can see what you mean. That sentence about me being the adult just is not getting through to the place it should...it's as though my brain cannot countenance the thought of being the grown up. It says 'YOU WILL FAIL' over and over again. I believe I will lose the children somewhere and set fire to the house and we will all die, if i am left to function as an adult without her daily 'assistance'.

Isn't that totally ridiculous...I have 3 A levels, an IQ of 135 or whatever, two healthy-ish children - that should be enough to know I am Ok. But somehow that voice inside always wins.

I was doing great in my early twenties, but I felt I should move away as I had not 'separated' from my parents like most of my friends had, so I forced myself to move up north, it was Ok for a while then I had a 'breakdown' type thing and came back
I lived with them, unwanted and unwelcome for 6 months while I worked and went to college - then stopped eating and that was that for the next four years. I was completely isolated. I moved out of their house and had nothing, no friends.

Finally got myself together, boyfriend etc then pregnant. I haven't gone back to work, but things are better than they were - at least I'm alive - but at what price? She has me where she wants me.

I think it's time it stopped. I am getting more and more angry as I write this down and read your replies (plus the other thread).

That has to be a good thing! Sorry to waffle on so much.

btw I never knew that was what FLY stood for!!

Yes your Mum is more poisonous than you first let on. I am quite some way from you I'm afraid but if you ever want to email me feel free!

I would be very careful about any information I handed her. Don't talk about your fear of cutting yourself, or the problems in your relationship with her, or about anything emotional at all. It's just going to bolster her idea that you can't cope without her and that she is justified in taking over her life. I think you're going to have to practise a very competent brisk tone of voice when speaking to your mother. Keep her at arms length by a forced jolly tone (through gritted teeth if necessary).

Keep any problems for other people- mumsnetters, your GP, maybe even a therapist, anyone who is not going to come rushing to take you over.

God, you're right - so much is already known to her though, (although she embellishes it a hundred fold) - one thing that scares me is that she was the one that helped me get away from my last boyfriend, who was being abusive - she says things about him even that weren't true, but he was abusive and I know that myself!
I am afraid that walking (further) away from her means I have less support on that front.

Part of the reason I suspect he doesn't come round, or want involvement (which I thank God for) is that he is scared of my mum, and knows she can't stand him, so I'm just worried that if he found out I had moved, he would be free to harrass me once more.

I don't think she would stoop so low as to tell him where we lived, but who knows, once I have stopped involving her in my life at every turn, she might really get horrid.

How are you doing today, did you look at different houses?