Just can't bear this anger against my own mother

[Flight]

I'm sorry. It feels like I might just blow, and I don't know why it's so intense.

She and dad got back today from a short break, and it is her birthday - they came over this morning and we gave her presents, then they took Ds1 off for an hour and a half.

Fine so far. But later I rang her to mention a couple of things I'd forgotten - relevant things - and Ds1 grabbed the phone and asked her to come and see his new transformer.

Well he always does this, I didn't hear the upshot but she and I spoke more afterwards and she didn't mention anything. In fact we said 'see you Tuesday' etc etc. as she has him sometimes on a Tues.

So an hour or so later she arrives at the door. She lives 2 minutes up the road, so it wasn't a big journey - she came in, saying she wouldn't stay long - just came to see the toy.
I said it was Ok.
They get playing while I am sitting with Ds2 at the computer, finishing off something.
She starts making a new 'invention' with Ds1, and as I've finished with the Pc and turn it off, I am sitting there quietly when she starts suggesting making something else to ds1.
We were planning to go out to sainsburys and I am just sitting there being ignored by them both - it always happens, I try and say anything when she's here playing with him and it goes unheard.
Also we have issues over joint discipline/management of behaviour, and it is generally very stressful her eing here at all - she knows this as we discussed it clearly last week. However she seems to have forgotten.
I made a 'no, not really' face at her, as I wanted to get them ready and go out.
She then starts to say she is going, and stands up and asks me what's up.
I said I would talk to her later. I didn't want to argue in front of the boys.
ds1 was clearly uncomfortable and I had to tell him after she had walked out that I was just not getting on to well with Grandma, and it wasn't his fault.
She left her bag behind, meaning again that she would have to come back.

I don't know why I felt so angry with her.
I really don't know. But what I have noticed is that she always, always, without fail, starts a fight on her return from a holiday.
I always look after their pets, they buy us a little gift, all seems fine, and then wham, she finds something to have a fight about.
I think she has an issue with going away. She knows I need her help, but before going she asks if she should ring from wherever they're going, and I always say no, please don't because I build up a coping mechanism while they are not around to help, and it disturbs that.
I think she feels scared without me, actually. She can't bear it if I cope, and can't bear it if I am doing Ok and might leave.
I am so cross at her for undermining me and trying to start a fight, and it's making me fume inside, but I know that's what she wants. bizarrely.

Does anyone else's mother have weird attachment problems or is it just mine?

Please don't tell me I'm an ungrateful cow, as I already feel like that most of the time

What upsets me is her behaving as though I am not the adult in my home, and not the one to make basic decisions about my own family's activities and so on...I think that's it, anyway.

I have a few friends...she also finds that very threatening - finds something to comment on, like how they don't look normal etc.

So very hard to get started on that front.
I think you're right that she's still trying to control my life.

God I sound like Kevin the teenager.

anyway you can move a bit further from your mum or develop your independence from her?

Yes I can imagine she would find that extremely threatening. My mother was bemused (horrified) to walk into my house and find it spotless, because it meant there was nothing to do but relax and nothing to criticise. (Me taking control.)

I think you work out what works for you. Some people find they have to get away from these controlling parents, others can find a modus vivendi where they can have a distant, polite relationship. That's the one I'm working towards because I think that's about as good as it gets.

I decided years ago that I was no longer going to rise to the bait with all her awful comments, so of course in classic toxic parent mode, she upped the ante and the comments got more vicious and more frequent, leaving me apoplectic with fury and distress, because I didn't at the time realise what was going on. Now I do, I've taken away the source of her comments and try to avoid her company as much as possible. No doubt she will try another attack as she realises yet another source of conflict is gone; she simply doesn't realise that she's doing it and she can't stop herself. But now that I understand what's going on, I'll be ready for the attack and able to deal with it. From your point of view, I think you need to be able to analyse why she behaves the way she does so that you can accept that you can't change it and that it's not your fault, and you can stop feeling so angry and sad about it. (I'm still at the beginning of that process myself btw!)

Well it is a fantasy...I have pretty much decided it's the way to go - whenever I see a place I like she says 'but I couldn't share the car' or 'but do you remember when you were ill, it wouldn't be possible for me to get there so quickly' etc etc.

Yet if I suggest sharing a house full stop, like a big place we could all share, she says 'No, we couldn't do that'.

I always find I;m thinking the only way I could do it would be to find a partner. That's a bit sad isn't it? Surely I should be able to live by myself with my kids, and stop being in a child role myself?

stop letting her influence your decisions about where you live. Find somewhere you like (don't rush just to get away though) sign the paperwork (no going back) and then do it. Will you ever find a good partner when your mum is already half filling the role?

God, Bella, that sounds really awful

It is this recognition isnt it, that they are doing something dodgy to us - that's where I am at - just starting to really question her behaviour and if I know she is acting up, I can then be quite strong against it iyswim. But it's the knowing she's in the wrong that is such a hard point to reach - though looking at it now in the light of your comments here, I can not quite imagine how I didn't see there was something iffy about it!

Once I know someone is against me I can easily find my strength. A mother is never an easy person to distance from though...there is a lot of love there as well, ..I think...?

Well done for what you are doing. I feel inspired to clean the house.

Good point about the partner role, Cargirl

I can see why any potential bloke might be scared off!

Oh dear I did wonder if things were worse than hinted at in your OP.

I'm still agreeing with all Cargirl's suggestions!

I don't have any personal experience but Dh's mother is a control freak drama queen. I'm one of the very few people who has ever stood up to her apparently (much easier for me as an outsider obviously)

Do you have siblings?

One sister, she is older than me - 2 years - she is married to another woman and they rarely visit. She can't abide being near our mother!
Always tells me off for not doing the same - but I don't have her social confidence. She's always made friends easily. I'm a real apron strings girl.

could you make the effort to build better relationship with your sister (don't tell your Mum) it sounds like she would be empathetic when you try to cut lengthen the apron strings?

Yes - I have tried - we are quite close, but now she is married, I don't like to intrude - they are a very close, quiet couple, I can't somehow rely on her to be there for me like she used to be.
I think I need to find this strength from within myself. I will do it, I am just rather scared of the leap.

did you say she ignores you, perhaps you should relish that while she is playing with your dc... she isn't nagging you, criticizing etc., or does she do that too.
deep breathes,
i always used to have to mow the lawn or something, to get rid of my anger .
i rely on my own as well and often which i didn't, but latterly have spent less time with her and much prefer it.

Slarty that is great advice about mowing the lawn. it might get rid of the anger, God knows our lawn could use it too

She's going to phone at 8am, she does on a Tuesday, to ask about seeing me today and helping with stuff.

I haven't spoken to her since Sunday.

No idea what to say. I'm still upset, don't want her here but I don't want to argue.

She already said before that if Ds1 is at home, she doesn't want to have him during the week - she is scared about me home educating. Well he is at home today as he came back last night having bumped his head and slept all evening, waking and being really odd and shaky...I think he needs a rest.

So do I say, 'No thanks, I don't want to see you' or what? She will know I'm still angry, she's very canny like that. I guess I could just say 'Yes, I am still feeling upset, but I don't know why, perhaps we could leave it for today'.

Am going to look at a house further away from here.

I know my situation is different as I have a DH but he is away on business a lot so I am alone with the DCs.

We live in Germany and both my parents and my ILs are very far away.

It is difficult sometimes and I am envious of friends with family nearby. We have to pay for babysitters or ask friends to look after our DCs if we want to go somewhere.

It is something that you do get used to and you learn to cope with. Now the children are older it is less of a problem than it used to be.

If you were to have more distance (emotional and physical) between yourself and your mother, then I am sure you would have much more energy for yourself and your DCs. Think of all the time you spend worrying about your mother's reaction and imagine spending that time in other ways.

Your relationship with your mother is not doing you good at the moment.

What about your sister? Could you move nearer to her? Perhaps you should speak to her and see what she things. Could she be waiting for you to make the move away from your mother?

Hi KS, yes she perhaps is waiting, I hadn't thought of that!
She is in Germany at the moment, Berlin - she lived there for 10 years and recently took her 'wife' back to stay for a few months. I think they will return to the UK soon though.

I'm going to look at a house across town. I won't tell mum, as she will find reasons to say it's a bad idea. But I have made my mind up...Ok it's a small step but it's for me and the children, and I think worth doing. We are literally in the same street here.

Thankyou for your advice. Where in Germany are you?

We are near Düsseldorf

You live in the same street? Oh, God, I get on really well with my mum but we would never be able to live so close. I could not live near my ILs either. When we lived in the same town that was one of the things I looked at when searching for a flat, it had to be at least 30 mins walk away.

A healthy distance in good for a mother/child relationship.

That is reassuring. I am now certain it is the right thing to do, despite her cries of 'But when I was a child I could walk to my grandmother's house, and she saved our lives as my mother was so dreadful' hint hint.

She is so mixed up.

flight- I post on the other thread... I find it really helps posting there as I get great support from people who understand.
It sounds like your mother is 'smothering'.
The message this type of parent sends is 'You are nothing without me'.

'Smothering parents are overly invested in their children, often making huge sacrifices and commitments but expecting the child's soul in return.'

This is why part of you feels you may not cope without her, that is what is intended as it keeps you bound to her.

You need to build up your confidence and I guess the only way to do this is to begin limiting time with her and doing stuff without her just so you learn that 'yes' you can do it.

This isnt healthy and it's great you recognise this now and it is for the good of your kids that you break this cycle now.
Good luck with it all....and remember to visit the other thread if you need to...no need to read all the posts just hop on with a link to this one (it's thread no 3 by the way!)

Thankyou Smithfield, yes that sounds familiar.
I spoke to her this morning. Actually discussed the problem with her but I am not sure that was wise.

Anyway she acted as if she was taking it on board, and said she would think about it and email me later.

I told her we were going to move and that I didn't think we had a healthy relationship, and she agreed with that (on the spot, though, so not sure) and anyway I told her that the shared car was going to have to be sorted out as a secondary consideration, because it was more important we move away.

I even told her I was trying to cut myself and she didn't sound at all shocked. That was just odd. As if she thought I was trying to shock her or making it up.

Maybe she finds it hard to face the fact she upsets me so much.

flight- I might be wrong but dont be surprised if she pushes the fault back on to you in some way or other.
Yes, I dont think 'not responding' to your daughter telling you she wants to harm herself isnt normal at all.
Use your own kids as a yardstick....if one of them said it to you how would you react?

I say this cos normally we are conditioned to second guess ourselves when we have controlling parents. I.e we think 'that cant be right. then we say... or can it? We are riddled with self doubt.

I do hope Im wrong and you can talk things through, but just be prepared.

Thankyou - well we usually do attempt to talk things through and reach an understanding, at least so we can tick over - but I really know what will happen, she will say she's sorry and then it will start all over again.

I'm going to stick with it and move, though. I am finally convinced it's not all in my head. I've been full of self doubt for too long now.

I've been through an appeal about incapacity recently, and all the time she kept saying, but it's not right, anyone can see you're ill, you can't make friends, you're really depressed' and it sometimes made me go because it sounded like she really wanted me to be like that, even though I'm not as bad as she makes out.

Flight-

'...you're ill, you can't make friends, you're really depressed' and it sometimes made me go'

Can i ask Did she do this kind of stuff when you were a child? I imagine she would have, as in found issues, picked holes with friends you had etc.?

I would be very scared to admit to that lady I was planning in cutting myself.

That added to the comments re: incapacity.... just watch out she isn't planning on winning your children.

I'm not saying she is, but I know of a woman whose husband died & her MIL tried all she could to get the children from her.. even to the point of buying her a house & doing her shopping, making her feel useless that she couldn't even decide what the children would eat for dinner

She finally realised what was happening when her sister visited her & spelled it out.

I don't mean to alarm you, but when this was going on, not one of us noticed it!! Everything was done slowly & calmly by her MIL... only when the girls sister confronted her did she say she wanted to keep the boys.

Yes, she never liked my friends very much. My sister twigged quite early and made friends regardless, left home early and never visits without psyching herself up for weeks.

I was insecurely attached (not much physical contact when a baby) so was afraid of leaving, afraid of school etc etc.

I didn't care then about the friends, I just wanted to stay with her.

Shes not what you'd call supportive. Whenever I make frends with someone she either gets all defensive as though I am leaving her, or says they seem a bit creepy or finds something to comment on about their relationship/marriage/behaviour.

She's very subtle, says they're nice etc but it's in the tone of voice - as someone said, reading between the lines.

I am afraid to trust anyone sometimes.

This is all sounding like an abusive marriage isn't it? No wonder I have had controlling boyfriends.

I don't think she would try and take the children, though it is a fantasy she admits to - she would be afraid of the hard work in reality (emotionally)

I think she would be awful if they were really living with her. She just wants the set up where she can make believe am this awful strict parent to them and she can criticis and feel superior I think.

I have to be involved or the fantasy will fall apart.

See how quickly she fell into line this mornning, when I was sounding all assertive. That's MN that has done that for me.

I was so unsure before I talked about her on here.