December 2023 - So we took you to stately homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau please don’t worry. We’re all hurting and I think most of us are ND and sometimes people take offence at the things we say. I’ve had a crap day and had to get out of the way of my mother but was told by a fellow dog walker that her parents had died and I should value the time I have with my mum. (The really stupid thing is that I had the same conversation with this woman months ago and I’d forgotten!!😩) I mean, I lost my dad 3 years ago anyway so surely I’m allowed to feel how I want to feel?! I already felt rubbish about swearing at mother and screaming in frustration and am having trouble not believing that I’m the problem.

I know I’m not because my brother-in-law said last week that he thinks my mother has the emotional age of a five or six year old, then revised that and said it was probably three or four! But if it wasn’t for him I’d be feeling really isolated because my DB tends to take her side and although my sister is VLC with my mum she’s a narc herself.

Anyway, sorry for waffling. Hope you’re ok.

@Genuineweddingone that woman is pure evil. Why on earth she thought it reasonable to try to destroy your family twice is beyond me.
The woman who gave birth to me tried to destroy my relationship when I met my other half. It wouldn't have mattered who it was, she wasn't for sharing me with anyone. I had to be 'her best friend'.
Someone else said she must be jealous of your family and the relationships you have.
It will take time to heal from the pain of what she's done, and I think non contact is essential, but also know that's much easier said than done.

@tonewbeginnings I think a wee message is probably appropriate. I hope your relative is better soon. I'd be very wary of them hooking you back in and understand why you don't want to go visit and have actual physical meeting with them.

I've just about caught up with everyone's posts, thinking of everyone in the same boat. Thank goodness we can choose our friends!

@girlswillbegirls don't feel guilty. They feel no guilt about anything. All we want is a peaceful and happy life. The solution for many of us is the ultimate no contact. I certainly will not be holding a seance…

@FreeRider that’s it. They lose whatever scrap of filter they have left. Hag has ripped off the sweet old lady mask with me.

@Genuineweddingone OMFG so she's got form and in 2019 enjoyed seeing you stressed to F and BLAMED your brother. Unbelievable. Speechless here. Which is rare. She deserves to never see you or your son again. Tons of support and love for you here. Take care.

I echo the very wise @binkie163 block her on everything, letters, presents IN THE BIN (do not pollute your house), restraining order if you can (I don't know Irish law) Your Mother is fucked in the head, frankly. She doesn't deserve you as her daughter or your son (what a lovely lad!) as her grandson. BIN THE WITCH.

@tonewbeginnings good for you not tying yourself in knots. All I can see is you are incredibly kind in wanting to drop a text. But, and you know this, illness can be a time when they ramp up the shit big time. Hugs. I think contact is a journey. It's tough, but finding what makes you happy is the best.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau sorry you're having a bad time. You are welcome here.

@Escapingafter50years God, I completely understand you crying at the thought. I think the Hag is in some kind of scientific experiment on longevity. Pissing myself at the heart remark. Brilliant.

@user8800 the gang here will have a whip round. YOU’RE GETTING A VILLA.

@trappedwitheviledna value the time left? FFS. People don't want to hear it, do they? Some families are really dysfunctional - end of.

@TheBuggerlugs sorry to hear that. We are here when you have the head space.

Well, cross all fingers, say your prayers.

Not heard much hag shit this weekend. Hurrah. Mr Monkey is continuing the very, very low contact (I wish it was NC, but only he can make that decision) and she's not been ringing, screaming. Admittedly, the weekend IS just 48 hours. 🤣

We were tucking into dinner at 7.15pm when the phone rang.

Slave Son: “the Hag has had a fall. She's pressed her alarm so the care people are there, but can't get into her flat, the police have been called to force an entry”.

Mr Monkey has walked the 10 minutes to her lair.

Strong sense of dread that this will turn into another health drama BUT SHE IS NOT STAYING HERE AND SOCIAL SERVICES HAVE TO DEAL WITH HER. I'm not seeing her. However, my optimism is saying care home or…well, you know…

@mm 🤣🤣🤣
We're having a junior suite don't yew know 😀
Then some sort of log cabin thing
I'm looking forward to it 😊

@Sicario@Escapingafter50years@MonkeyfromManchester I decided to send a short message wishing him a swift recovery. It’s my brother so a close relation. He also replied briefly saying he is having some further investigation but hopefully will be ok. I left it at that. I know what you’re saying about NC being easier than VLC and I’m slowly getting there. VLC feels easier for now.

@Parentalalienation a visit or in person meeting is not something I would instigate. I’ve been VLC rather than LC more for the sake of my mum as he lives in the same city as her and helps her out. In case I run into him at her house. However, this doesn’t happen much as my lack of drama has put him off - I have finally managed to grey rock which has taken years to get to. My mum has also acknowledged his behaviour towards me and no longer attempts to bring us together in the same space.

Thanks for the replies - I used to easily be drawn back in to toxic situations so I definitely need to be careful. In the past I have been taken advantage of by my siblings and mother as I now realise that I’m an easy target for emotional abuse. Just being decent, polite and empathetic can make you a target for toxic people. I finally ran out of empathy at the age of 40!

As suggested, NC is probably going to be the right thing for me, at some point - soon.

@mm
I think all you can do re: hag is just keep reiterating to EVERYONE (SS, Dr's, hospital...) that she isn't going to be looked after by you or be allowed in your home.
Just that ^ on a loop.
I hope MrM is OK x

Thanks Monkey. It’s felt a bit stressy due to there being some characters on here who are more forthright and assertive than I am and me being not forthright and assertive at all, and also due to comments which I accept were not aimed at me feeling like they were (I’d had a bitt of a day with the epic lecture from my mother, some why didn’t she leave him? From my boyfriend and best friend followed by my mother saying she was going to raise my rent beyond what I can afford and make me homeless so I was sharply on edge) but we should all have a place on here. All of us have been hurt and we all deserve support no matter what (unless one of us is Myra Hindley or something but I’m working on the assumption that we aren't).
Meanwhile the house saga has continued. I can’t write out the whole thing because it’s months-long and complicated and I’m tired of it and in fact of everything but suffice it to say my mother really wants to buy my grandparents’ house, they don’t want to sell it to her (they have two daughters and tbh I’d prefer it to go to someone else rather than be torn down and remade into my mother’s ideal
home which literally happens every two years with houses she owns). Today my mother was not only happy that the nursing home reported advancing symptoms of dementia in my grandfather but she booked a GP appointment with DGM’s GP. They have both given her power of attorney so the GP can discuss freely how insane my grandmother is to sell her incredibly expensive house to pay for her care and not move into my mother’s house. It is INSANE how much power she has over everyone - how her intelligent, mentally competent, well-off parents have given her PoA in the first place mystifies me. I can imagine they want to leave a fairly divided inheritance and don’t want to be on my mother’s property and under her power.

Sorry I have not been on here much lately.

Monkey

Your strong sense of dread is justified, this could well end up turning into yet another Hag health drama of gargantuan proportions. Keep well away from it.

Nice aunt is being discharged from hospital to home within the next few days. Dumb and dumber her two adult children have been utterly useless re all aspects of she being in hospital. I would not trust them to run a bath. How these people sleep at night I do not know but they do. All we meerkats can do is to continue counteracting their shit and to monitor v closely how it all goes re the carers. I will have no hesitation in speaking to her councils adult social care if and when it all goes to shit. I remain convinced this is a DFS situation (disaster from the start).

@user8800 yes, the huge pool, servants, Jose The Pool Boy, cocktails, THE LOT.

“Oh, this little place, it's nothing really” as you gaze out to sea to look at your superyacht.

Refusal is going to be on such a loop. After the “she's not my family” screaming at me before Xmas she is NOT stepping into our home EVER AGAIN. Mr Monkey agrees. Social Workers are still involved so they will get an update ASAP, plus a “whatcha going to do about it?”

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau awful situation with your grandparents. Hugs to you.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I'm glad your aunt is coming out of hospital. No great surprise that her children are useless. Doubtless you will be dealing with care, but you will know it's done well. I cannot believe how utterly useless some people are.

And rest assured I'm keeping out of it. I will deal with social services, but I'm not seeing the witch. I'm done.

I shouldn't laugh. Mr Monkey has just phoned.

Carers have made hag comfortable on the kitchen floor, but had to rush off to their next client. As they have to.

Hag normally screams about the carers being late, Mr Monkey constantly explaining that the carers deal with emergencies and she's been an emergency. Top narc points. Maybe that she isn't the centre of the fucking universe will get in her thick and toxic head. Some hope…

Anyway, MM’s update. EIGHT hour wait for the ambulance, but she can't be moved. She's now a priority case. He was talking to me and she was semi-screaming in the background. Have to laugh. Slave Son as useless as ever.

@AttilaTheMeerkat your lovely aunt is very lucky having you keeping an eye on her. I'm sure she knows how much you appreciate her.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau sending you hugs. There are some things that resonate. My own NM also loves expensive redecoration projects every couple of years since I'm a child. Everything looking perfect and new and trendy for visitors. I really hope you start feeling better yourself and are able to move out and having your own place. Take one day at a time. One day you will be able to be out and about and won't need to be home. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

@MonkeyfromManchester thank you very much. I don't know why when I finally have to meet my NM I don't even want to talk about it. It affects everything including my sleep for a few weeks afterwards. So I was sorry not being able to participate or even read you all here. I'm now being myself again :-)
I think the Hag is looking for a new strategy to get your attention. She stopped calling but I bet you the number of accidents will increase exponentially so she sees a way to have your husband around again. Sending love and strength to you both x.

Gosh I had no idea this thread still ran

I was on the original ones in 2007

I cut out all my toxic family members 13 years ago and the amount of growth, peace and happiness I've found is unmeasurable

No guilt, no regrets

Much wiser and older now

@mm
Oh, the waits for ambulances are horrendous...only 4 hours for mum last time though...
Poor MrM :(

Your pool boy comment made me chuckle...
There's a long standing joke between dh and I...
Many years ago he phoned home from a work trip to Asia and I was struggling with 2 dc under 6 who were both had a vomiting bug, I was ill myself, mum being her usual self and he asked me - after showing me his palatial hotel suite overlooking a crystal blue bay and describing the food on the first class airline - "what I'd been up to l?"...
I told him I had to go as my Mexican gigolo had just turned up.
He was very sheepish when he phoned back!! 🤣🤣

Going to answer @girlswillbegirls first while you are top of my mind.
My mother has accumulated a huge amount of capital by riding the housing bubble, doing up a nasty house every two years so it sells for more than they bought it for. It’s more than just appearances, it’s a weird cycle of buy shitty house (and we’ve had houses with ice inside the windows in the 2000s, polystyrene on the walls, infestations, no furniture so we have to sleep on ikea futons on the ground) rip it apart - occasionally that is half the house is removed and we live with shitty wooden walls between us and the elements or it’s just knocked to the ground and we move to an awful rental house or on occasion, abroad for a bit, then house is sold for a vast amount of money because it’s in a desirable area and actually livable in. My mother has a very characteristic design style for both building and decorating.
Meanwhile while my mother was accumulating capital almost entirely due to luck and free time (they could afford to get one house when newly married and if one of you is jobless or can hire off the jobs on someone else this process is going to be lucrative in the 80s-2010s) my dad was concentrating on making it higher and higher in a huge firm and eventually becoming a CEO. These houses are all in joint names and my father earns a decent amount (not stupidly rich but enough that we don’t need to worry about three takeaways a week). So it’s less about keeping up with the Joneses - my mother’s tidying style is more throw everything in the cupboard and clean a quarter of the floor if someone is visiting, and their cars are twenty years old - and more about accumulating power due to a knack for real estate and a bubble making it very easy to get a lot of money.
That was long so sorry! I was actually having the chat - it was a why don’t you leave him but a why don’t you leave her if you take my meaning, with my boyfriend and best friend who are frustrated. At this point I’m frustrated too and trying to draw on all the help I can because I’ve tried moving out and being moved back and moving out again etc and I feel a bit fenced in financially and physically let alone emotionally.

@user8800 howling! You can lend me Mr Mexican 2024.

Hag update. And off to hospital she goes with either a dislocated hip or broken hip. I have emailed the social worker and made it plain again that we CANNOT and WILL NOT take this shit on.

MM returned and said “I just want to reassure you, she's not coming here and I'm not looking after her at her flat. Communication has broken down.”

He phones Mr Idiot aka Slave Son. MM outlines his position I.e., she is NOT being waited on hand or foot by him. Slave Son actually says “maybe, I could move in with her for a bit.” The dolt is a fucking idiot. She would thrive on having someone in her house that she could abuse. SS wouldn't be allowed out. He's an IDIOT.

MM: “I don't think that's appropriate. You can't give her the care she needs. She us a very angry person. When she's exhausted you, we are NOT replacing you. End of.”

Fucking hooray for @MrM!!

Quite often older people need to go into a home for 24 hr care after a bad fall/hip break...I've seen it many times.

Just saying.

Well done Mr Monkey for saying it how it is, especially to Slave Son who is still so much under the influence. Hopefully she won't get out of hospital other than to a care home.

@user8800 my thoughts exactly... That care home can't happen soon enough.

She will be being vile to MM tonight, he's gone to the hospital. I've left him wine, Brandy and some crack cocaine I scored earlier on the kitchen table. He will need it.

@Parentalalienation

Mr Monkey is a changed man. The therapy is amazing. He's so assertive now.

SS is an idiot. If he ever took a step back and looked at how his life has panned out. Jeez. He's obviously been on the crack this evening if he thinks becoming her live in carer is a good idea. He's got MS and she's a fucking psycho nutjob.

Good night, lovely ladies. Xxx

Hi @CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau hope you are ok and you don’t need to ask to post? We can all post whenever we feel like it.

@AttilaTheMeerkat so pleased that nice aunt is feeling well enough to get back to her own home.

@Genuineweddingone so sorry about your mothers behaviour, maybe you and your brother can build bridges if you now know it wasn’t him?

@tonewbeginnings if you are unsure about contact I now send texts etc like the ones I receive like I’m an acquaintance and not actually a family member. So polite but no details so I would check person is ok etc wish them well but tell them nothing about me.

hello to everyone new and new to me but old as we’re here before me 🙂

I am finally over the Christmas stuff and was starting to feel a lot better now my family members are back to zero contact with me. Was feeling ok most days and trying to enjoy myself.

But instead my DP and I are not getting on for the last fortnight, not like us at all as we both help the other one through the bad family stuff, we are best friends 😰. I really am feeling low tbh as I only have my adult son and my DP (nearly 20 years together) no friends or anyone else at all.

I know I’m probably panicking about nothing (toxic childhoods and violent past relationships do this to you….well they do me) but I’ve withdrawn and not wanting to even speak, just want to be alone. I’m stuck in as well as bad weather here (DP wfh) which doesn’t help.

But my minds in panic mode….I’ve even been looking for accommodation if I have to leave (even worse if I had to the only place I can afford anything is back home so 6 hours from where I’ve lived for 20years and where all my family are). Living with anxiety, agoraphobia and PTSD this is literally my worst case scenario to ever have to imagine.

I have no one in real life to confide in so thought I could tell all of you ladies 😰 It sounds ridiculous but at 50 it’s hard to judge or work out what’s going on, he’s just been in a bad mood and getting ratty, as I only have my toxic family relationships and a violent past relationship to go by….all of which should never be emulated.

OK I’m much younger than you @Tbry24 but given your age I’m guessing you and DH have a shared house, or at least if you live separately you’re stuck in a house with multiple rooms. Would it be possible to have a discussion or even write on a nice card that you love him and want things to work and while you’re stuck together in such close quarters and you personally are going through stress, could you either tacitly or explicitly agree that certain rooms are “yours” and you’ll make efforts to avoid disturbing each other in those rooms? You can also include things that are bothering you in a note as it’s much less upfront and likely to escalate. My grandparents were lucky enough to have a large house but they basically ensconced themselves at opposite ends of it and thus conserved a stormy but loving marriage for sixty years.
I also know this can sound patronising and I will be delivering it badly but very, very deep breaths please. The bad weather isn’t going to be permanent at least for now and you sound a bit claustrophobic. Remind yourself that barring disasters - and you are allowed to get as frustrated and frightened as you like it you’re flooded or cycloned or something - this WILL pass. It’s temporary. For me it’s my cat and the social media I’m on - mumsnet and Reddit - distracting me at the moment but it really helps me even if I’m in hospital including the CCU that just gets me through the succession of moments until things get better (in hospital chatting to other patients distracts us both so if you have local friends or acquaintances you could call or text for a chat too?)

Also if you think leaving is more than just a panic thought @Tbry24 are there advice hotlines you can call or even advice chatbot hotlines if you want to be silent and private? Sometimes putting the building blocks in place really helps if it gets to be an urgent need in the future. At least in the UK waiting lists for social housing are massive so the more people you can ask and get on the radar of the better, although you’d at least be able to survive in a single room with an affordable deposit or even sofa surf! Please don’t be offended but some of your friends at your age might be missing offspring who have gone off to uni and really glad to give you a place to stay for some companionship.

@Tbry24 I’ve found that dealing with toxic family behaviour can have a side effect of making healthy relationships suffer. Do you think that not speaking much and feeling withdrawn could be causing some of your husbands bad mood?

I never used to do this but I now tell my husband that I need some time / space to myself, if I need to process my crappy family behaviour. If it goes on for a while I also remind my husband that it’s nothing to do with my relationship with him but I just need more time.

We went through a patch where my husband thought I didn’t enjoy being with him anymore so he made more effort but I withdrew even more when he did. I was in a bad mental place but hadn’t communicate this with him.

This may not be what’s going on with you right now but just in case it is.

@Tbry24 - I hear you. Do you think there is a possibility that you might be suffering from a bad bout of depression and need to speak to your GP? You have described some typical symptoms. I really would urge you to seek support.

Just to put it out there - I have been medicated for years after being diagnosed with clinical depression. I really couldn't have cared less if I didn't wake up in the morning. It's a horrible place to be.