December 2023 - So we took you to stately homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support

Hello folks, glad to have made it across to the new thread. Wish we didn't need this wee community but glad we have it!

I agree, we owe our narcissistic families nothing.
We do owe it to ourselves to do the work and build our strength and resilience to stand strong against the constant onslaught (sometimes very subtle ninja-like onslaughts) until we feel able to step away and go fully non contact.
@ThePensivePig and @Sicario I'm sorry to read about what's happened with you recently and hope that you're healing.
@MonkeyfromManchester today has been a complete doosy for you. I'm amazed at the hag's shenanigans! Stand strong and don't sway, and it's only a few days until you and Mr Monkey can put the final brick in the wall of non contact.
Keeping you all in thoughts and trying to follow my own guidance here!

@Sarahbumdaa saying hello. It's the toughest time of year. I'm sure other faith-based holidays are similar for people of different cultural backgrounds. My friend is Hindu and she has fantasy of Diwali that involves fireworks / explosives and her toxic family home at Diwali.

Joking aside the phrase “we tried our best”. FFS. I can't bear it.

@user8800 so glad that you are doing OK. Glad you've got your awesome kids. I WILL SURVIVE. LOL.
XXX

@ThePensivePig you're in good company. This place has saved my life. Truly. Xx

That's horribly hard, @Turtlerunner. Sending solidarity. You've absolutely done the right thing. Christmas might not be all you want, but at least it won't be a repeat of the 80th, with you doing all the work and then being treated like crap. You have protected yourself and that's massive.

@Parentalalienation thank you. Hag is throwing all her pathetic spite at us pushing Mr Monkey even further away. She's DESPERATE.

I hop off to the eye clinic. Burst blood vessel in my eye. Is this any surprise? Lol. Back tomorrow to see if it is that of my usual dodgy eye condition (also triggered by stress)

Mr Monkey heads over to the lair. The call is from her doctor. It's get start of the process to get her into a memory clinic / HIGH SECURITY FACILITY.

Her kidneys aren't working properly.

Perfectly cordial conversation on the phone with the GP and then the moment the nice GP goes back to dealing with normal people and ends the call, all hell is unleashed.

SCREAMING.

“What? What? WHAT? What do I have to do?”
“You need to drink 3 litres a day.”
“How will I drink water? I don’t like it. How will I get glasses of water.”
“Like you fill your kettle up, you put something under the tap and turn it on.”

SO proud of MM.

She HONESTLY expects Mr Monkey to pop round to fill up a glass for her.

Endless screaming about Age UK taking her to hospital appointments next year.

“How will I get to hospital?”
“Age UK”
“I can't believe you're doing this to me. Your own mother.”
“Age UK”
“You’re leaving all this to your poor disabled brother.”
“Age UK”
“What will I do if something happens to Slave Son?” (a wise soul here in 2020 pointed out how Slave Son was being edged out and Mr Monkey slid in…)
“Age UK”

“No ones cares about me.”
✔️✔️✔️🌟🌟🌟👋

Mr Monkey is not budging on this.

“What if I refuse it?”
“That’s your choice.”

MM has bought her a water bottle.

“What if I don't drink the water?”
“You’ll get ill and Age UK will have to take you to hospital.”

I've phoned the carers with the instructions that she is to face water torture every day. I will do handover of water flask to Slave Son tomorrow as he will pop by in the car with the witch. I will pop out to the street, hand it over to Slave Son, smile brightly and hasta La fucking vista.

Six days to Xmas Eve. I have NO doubt this week is going to ‘stretch my patience’ but not budging on any of this shit.

Mr Monkey is standing resolute.

Be an abusive and horrible ‘mother’, Hag, to my partner for 54 years and this, sorry to say, is how it ends.

I'm cheering at Mr Monkey being like a stick record with his Age Concern response.
It's true, you reap what you sow, and that's what's happening with the hag.
I hope your eye is okay, your body is telling you that enough is enough.

Good for you Monkey. I’ve been on a similar thread today about people who go NC and I think there’s a lot of entitlement in the view of “I can treat you as badly as I want, you can’t go anywhere”. My mother certainly displays a marked difference between the people who have to tolerate her because they’re family and those she wants to make like her (does that make sense? I mean people like tradesmen, friends she’s keen on, especially university people, even superficially my boyfriend despite the fact that she insults him behind my back and is causing a lot of damage to our relationship). Also, I think NMs - mistyped BMs but I think they probably deserve to be called poos - just don’t have a concept of being pushed so far there’s no return, and they wipe the slate clean in their own minds so they don’t understand that those they hurt are accumulating scar tissue and sensitivity.

I ironically typed out a paragraph about the Great Home Drama which I’m not sure I’ve written about here because it’s already been nine months of this drama and then my phone glitched - does anyone else have this? It replaces the text of one paragraph with the paragraph above. But anyway I don’t think I’ve told you all about it before because it’s too tiring to write out so instead have some insanely petty anecdotes from the past day and a half (my mother has been home since 8 last night so it really is the past day and a half).

1. I found a pencil branded with an absurdly prestigious legal official’s name (when I’m well I’m a lawyer and I managed to impress him with my questions at a conference I attended in my free time. I am that cool.) I was genuinely proud that I managed to impress him as the least qualified lawyer at the conference and the youngest, and my mother currently swans around interviewing prestigious people every other week for her PhD but of course she needs to take my branded pencil to the library every day in her bag to show off because I can’t have ANYTHING for myself. This may require more context and sound really pathetic but it’s one of a long line of similar stuff, and it’s almost the fact that it’s so small that makes it especially hurtful.
2. I was cleaning out the litter tray (Velvet’s poop is my job which is fine) and Velvet was playing and ran up the back of a chair, and being remarkably hapless and clumsy for a cat, she obviously knocked it down and it hit a metal statue which is for some reason in the living room? But it made a loud clang. My mother had just picked up the phone and just shouted my name in the most dismissive fashion before stalking upstairs to continue her call out of hearing range. I have previously been blamed for a bee stinging a horse and a horse leaning on a fence post and knocking it down (I weigh under eight stone and those fence posts are cemented in), not to mention horrendous plumbing in the current tiny en-suite I have resulting in constantly wet floors and black mould, which was obviously only dealt with when my sister objected to it.
3. Speaking of the shower, we have a FIVE bathroom house. My boyfriend has been staying with me while my parents visited my sister abroad and this morning my mother decided for no reason whatsoever to use my shower. My normal room is on the ground floor with aforementioned tiny en-suite and there are no fewer than four baths to choose from, my mother will almost without exception choose a bath (there are some weird rules around my use of the shower and the extra washing machine, most of which are that I don’t use them but my mother can rock up and use them whenever she wants because it’s HER HOUSE). More manoeuvres followed but at this point I can’t even tell what is reasonable and unreasonable to object to but she knows I hate people in my space, as does my boyfriend, who certainly thought it odd.
4. My mother’s mother, who is at the centre of the Great House Drama, has just had a radical mastectomy with removal of several lymph nodes and is facing down chemo and radiotherapy. My mother was on the aforementioned phone call and this got all of twelve seconds before a solid HOUR of House Drama.

Hi, popping onto the new thread. Hello to the new people and sorry you are in this situation too.

I’ve still been reading along with you all and grateful this space exists for us. I’m learning a lot from here, you guys are invaluable. Going through shit yourself whilst still helping others.

so my update- everything was quiet for a bit then the hoovering started. She was being nice, seemingly making the effort then when she thought it was all ok she flipped. Absolutely ripped into me but it was ok. I was expecting it so it’s not affected me as bad as it usually would.

I’ll get Christmas out of the way but something has to change in the new year. Brother seems to think that my keeping contact down to a minimum is not going to achieve anything (he’s probably right), so we may as well crack on as normal. Nothing will change so there’s no point in trying. Doesn’t believe I’ll cut contact if necessary. He’s so used to her issuing idol threats that he thinks I’m doing the same. I don’t expect her to change I just don’t want to be involved enough to get caught up in the game playing.

monkey I’m glad you are making progress, not long now until you can both hopefully cut her off completely. At least her hair will look nice while she’s sat in that manky old chair over Christmas.

sorry I can’t remember everyone’s name and which post is yours but sending best wishes to you all, there’s some rough shit going on at the moment.

@Parentalalienation thank you! He's exhausted but adamant that it is Age UK going forward. I think the most laughable bit of Hag Logic this PM was “but your poor brother, you're not thinking of your brother disabled Slave Son.”
“But I am, mum, I can't do it anymore, Slave Son is disabled so Age UK will do the hospital appointments.”
BINGO!

Body definitely keeping score. I've got an alien looking eye and Mr Monkey has a really nasty cold sore. We are HOT.

HUGS TO YOU XXX

Thanks for your responses everyone - they made ME feel validated. I know things like the pencil thing are tiny but in (so complex and involved that again I don’t have the energy to explain right now but might in the future) context it’s huge, and it’s not just when it’s in context, it’s that I’m almost literally not allowed to have anything of my own. The person who responded with the numbered list - not scrolling up in case phone glitches - described my genuine feelings to a T. To be fed up still would require even an ounce of self-esteem and energy. I don’t have that any more, I don’t have dreams, I don’t have ambitions. I can’t even say what I want for lunch on a given day - food is a bad example as I have anorexia but during previous episodes I’ve been able to say what I’d like at least. She has just ruined me. She’s taken everything I have.

Sorry, that was a bit of a pity party. It’s been a bit of a rough day honestly - boyfriend who is still lovely had a go at me about how badly I treat myself and there was a further small palaver about my oldest friend’s wedding, which I won’t bore you with. Sending best wishes to all the Stately Homers again.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau they simply please themselves. I need x from y so I will be nice to y to get x. My child? I will not be nice to them because I don't need to be. They are in my power. I can do what I want. I can undermine, I can scream, I can do silence. Whatever. It's all about them and it is GHASTLY - just as an outsider - to watch or hear.

Your point about scar tissue is very true.

The minor issues are cut after cut after cut. Just as @CovertOps said when she addressed your 1.5 day of hell (and that is hell) its about negating you as a sentient being. The pencil us YOUR fucking pencil. It's a seemingly tiny fucking thing, but it's not. She is jealous of your success.

Objects are hugely symbolic.

I know when I give The Hag gets the water bottle tomorrow its hugely symbolic of us wiping our hands of her. Hag knows that. I'm going to have to keep my cool. Or punch her in the throat. No wine in prison, though.

@CovertOps 150%. The stories here are appalling. We are warrior women to deal with this shit. We truly are.

Sadly, @CovertOps I'm off the juice as taking beta blockers as of today for anxiety. GUTTED. Could I have a voucher? ;-)

@BlastAroundTheOutside sorry but unsurprised - just as you - by the hoovering and then snarling. They are so bloody predictable, aren't they? I think it's up to you how much contact you have, not your brother or your mum’s voice in your head or her voice in your ear telling you.

Nothing will change so there's no point trying. That's your brother’s voice? Slave Son does the same.

In a way both are right there's no point trying to change an abusive mother but you have the power to make the choice to do what is the absolute best for you. AND YOU KNOW THAT. Many people don't have that magical realisation of the tenacity to junk their shit. Like you I can testify to how completely exhausting it is. The twXXS are so stubborn. And they ramp it up when they know you're slipping away. It's exhausting. We’re all here for you.

Pissing myself laughing at the hair do and THE manky chair. THAT. FUCKING. MANKY. CHAIR. THE THRONE OF HAG.

Night, night, lovelies. Going to brush my teeth and do alien impressions in the bathroom mirror as the blood shot eye makes me look extraterristeal. 👽Which could be a handy second bow.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau huge hugs to you.

We live (somehow) another day. We will all be here tomorrow. We all understand. Across the board, our personal narc creatures may use different tactics and Stately Homers have different backgrounds and widely different experiences, but the damage done to us is horribly similar.

Big Love xxx

I’m still here reading, and thinking, and supporting you all.

@Tbry xxxx to you. Brilliant women here. xxx

OK, this phone/site glitch is getting on my tits. TL/DR (because the phone deleted it and replaced it with text I just wrote on a different thread) thanks Monkey. It was a comparatively good day weirdly enough but given that I’m back on here I just noticed the tiny little thousand cuts piling up and thought I’d do a non-exhaustive day in the life!

Sleep well. Thanks and Bon courage to everyone on this thread.

@MonkeyfromManchester you and your partner are not codependent, you are a strong team getting through it all together.

@auntyElle seemed a strange thing to say? My DP and I also try to help each other through the bad times.

I had to laugh last week

I woke up with a really sore back (I think I lay oddly?...)

Went to mums. She saw me wince and I explained that I was in pain from my back.

No comment, we chatted away for a few more minutes.

Then she goes into her bedroom and brings out her Christmas lights and decorations and asks me to put them up!! 🤣🤣

So up I go on the stepladder...🙄

I simply do not exist as a person in my own right to her. She's only interested in what I can do for her - and my useless siblings, of course.

It makes it easier, oddly. I can compartmentalise her batshittery 😀

@Turtlerunner I think I must have missed your post prior to the 80th. Cancelling spending time with them at Christmas will make you feel bad but you have to put yourself first.

Christmas and birthdays and other celebrations are always so hard.

I’m struggling myself even though I’m keeping it as low-key as I can. Apart from the chores today and making myself eat something I just sat in the lounge not knowing what to do with myself and then fell asleep on the sofa, not something I do. Just feel exhausted by it all.

They do tend to go one of two ways - ignore illness/pain/discomfort or get angry at you for it. My mother reacts to my dad the first way, after a really long day in the office he uncomplainingly shifted what must have been 500kg of wood in the dark and rain. She then proceeded to snipe at him and tell me off for my health issues. If you’re too ill to do anything their attitude is “how quickly can you fix this inconvenience so you can go back to being my slave?”

@user8800 that is a classic Narc Christmas tale. 🎄 so, truly heart warming and touching. I feel very emotional. Something in my eye. (literally)

There is a lot of ESSENTIAL dark humour here.

Xxx