December 2023 - So we took you to stately homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support

I agree vertigo is terrible . I had a really bad bout a few years back so bad thought I was dying and had been poisoned. Was caused by a severe ear infection that the doctor had refused to treat for 8 months and I couldn’t literally move my head off of the pillow. The doctor had to come to the house and give me an injection in the bottom ….. the worst illness I’ve ever had 😂.

I have prescribed tablets to take to stop it getting that bad nowadays, get it a few times per year after a cold or ear infection.

I really hope your mums vertigo was not to that scale.

@Genuineweddingone your poor neglected child indeed! I'm sorry your family are like that, you sound to be better without them. I'd be keeping a diary with all the lack of comms so if social work get in touch you can tangibly demonstrate the lack of care and concern that the people who made that false malicious toxic report have for their relatives. I'd be looking for a restraining order against the whole lot of them and/or a slander & libel action.
@Tbry could you turn your phone off? Taking those calls every day must be hugely emotionally exhausting for you. I had to pretty much tell my family not to phone every day when they were doing similar. It was always about nothing other than the latest blade of grass that had grown an inch type of thing. Taking decorations down and doing mundane stuff around the house is probably good for your brain to relax and not be on hyper alert quite so much.

@MonkeyfromManchester

😂😂 TV with no sound brilliantly batshit. Is she muttering in a 'needs to go in care home' sort of way.

The abusive armchair assassin 😂 I want to say diddums to her, if MM could pass that on for me. Hugs to mummy M x

Going to be fragmental

Fell off bed which I have to climb off end of, haven’t really eaten for a week

osteoporosis feels like I’ve broken two toes (I have osteoporosis and know how it feels)

cat was with me, now shut out

Mother shouting at me about all the stuff she found while going through my things sister who has spoken to me for fifteen minutes in four years coming out with I hate you (lives in a different country, I was in pants with hands covering chest)

no cat, boyfriend trying to enjoy Christmas

hurts a lot

Sorry for not being as responsive as I should, everyone.

Lovely Velvet has spent the night with me and has just come to do her mummy cat check on me. Lovely boyfriend visited me in hospital while I was in there - frankly I wish I still were there. My parents occasionally drop in to deliver stuff and have long conversations with my consultants without me present which in my experience as a data protection lawyer is actually illegal. As a result, despite the fact that I was actually treated for the consequences of extreme malnutrition and had several hypoglycaemic episodes on the ward and actually said I’d rather die than return home, my discharge note records “alcohol withdrawal”. I was also told I’d need monitoring for refeeding syndrome (I’d barely eaten in a week) I was still discharged without any such monitoring. Over Christmas lunch six bottles of champagne were consumed. My sister also spoke to me for the first time in a year, shouting. “I hate you” from another room. Slight improvement on “fuck you” from upstairs last year, immediately after I’d given her several expensive designer dresses of mine that were gifted to me but didn’t suit me. I am now at the point of my boyfriend saying he’d rather I burn myself than kill myself. I think I’ve also broken a toe (osteoporosis is fun) falling and am considering how to ration out the codeine I was discharged with so I don’t get scolded for limping but also don’t get addicted to opiates.
I’m on a waiting list for a multidisciplinary detox which will also look after my mental and physical health but my parents are pushing for me to go to a private rehab asap (took precisely five days for me to be transferred to an acute psych ward last time they did this and the debt is chalked up against my name).
Sorry to rant and not reciprocate. Feeling a bit bleak. Boyfriend isn’t in the country. I’ll catch up, I promise. Velvet sends love and strength as I’m not up to it…

Shit, posted the same thing twice. Apologies. I’m not going to ask for either to be taken down because for some reason it reassures me I wasn’t imagining things. I’ve narrowed it down to one broken toe and a sprained arch though.

Well my yesterday with my son was going well and then last night I got not one but two messages off cousins (not in the same country) telling me we need to chat soon cos they are 'worried about me'. Why says I? I have a great life. Well your mum called very upset (shes great with the croc tears) and said you are an alcoholic and neglecting your son. Well then says I you will be wanting to talk to my son about this neglect ifyou are so worried about him and I sent them both his number. No calls happened. That woman is not going to get the better of me this time in fact she is making things worse for herself.

Cecile

Nothing changes re your family of origin does it. They’re still all the same playing out their roles of being toxic people. My hope for you is that your health improves and that move out. Velvet is truly a lovely cat.

Nice Aunt has been moved again within the hospital she is now in. We saw here yesterday and I ensured she’s had new bandages put on her leg due to a leg ulcer(I’ve been advised that hospital staff no longer put on compression bandages, instead leaving that to district nurses). Dumb and Dumber🤬 her adult menchildren continue to do little to nothing apart from making rotas along with insulting their mother calling her a PITA.

Genuineweddingone

Well done for stopping the flying monkeys in their tracks. These people are easily and often manipulated by the narcissist (in this case here your mother) to further do their dirty work for them. Fm’s have their own agenda and do not have your interests at heart so their opinion should be ignored.

She’s at least in hospital Attila - not ideal but probably the best place she can be right now. Please teach her how to use her call button early and often - the older patients (and nicer/more reticent ones) often don’t and even though the response might be slow it will happen with that call button. Can the men children actually be excised from the situation? This is only my experience and observance of others from my many hospital visits but 90% of nurses, HCAs and even doctors are overworked but really kind and will do their best to get patients what they need. They might need a push here and there because they are so so overworked but if you’re there pushing for Nice Aunt it will get done even if eventually. Family drama and in particular the variety that blames a sick relative for being sick is absolutely counterproductive for healing. Were I you (and a little braver) I’d vent my spleen on the man children and ask how they would feel in her situation, and say they aren’t welcome until they can introduce themselves to empathy. Or at least just say they can visit if it’s a little hello with no stress. Mental state really influences physical state.

Also, Nice Aunt could chat with a student nurse or a chaplain - both tend to have a bit of extra time and a nice listening ear and if you don’t have a beloved family member there it can be nice to speak to someone who is hearing you and being kind. IME even the porters have been a comfort, laughing and joking when we move wards. There might be volunteers too (I want to volunteer when I’m able to eg stand upright for any period of time) and she’ll probably get to know the daily staff - at my local hospital the lady who gets tea, coffee and hot chocolate is absurdly lovely and gets to know people very quickly. Keep pushing on the treatment you know she needs because you know her best but there’s no harm in making her experience as nice as possible.

@Genuineweddingone well if your cousins really cared they’d see you and know you aren’t. If you want them in your life start meeting up for days out etc and they can see for yourselves you and your DS are fine. If not just don’t speak to them either.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau glad you are at least out of hospital and getting better. The sooner you can build your strength up and leave that house the better. PS beautiful kitty.

@AttilaTheMeerkat At least Nice Aunt is in the best place for treatment so you know she is being looked after.

@Parentalalienation yes usually I only speak to my mum once a week to avoid hearing about my siblings or being picked on. This week she’s called every day now even though I’d had in place when we were speaking for three months and that this is my holiday with my family. Anyway last nights calls were dreadful but to cut a long story short her phones gone wrong (over usage calling me sprung to mind 😂). So the lines being fixed next week so finally I thought I’d get some peace for a few days but seems she can call out but no one can call in.

For background the calls were so stressful last night as my mum has always been of a nervous disposition so always needs someone else to be the responsible one. That meant when no other adults were there that was my job from probably about aged two, before my siblings all arrived. I now know from my therapy that all that extra responsibility and then bringing my child up alone led to my huge breakdown.

So I had her in a complete state, telling me I’m picking on her, crying, hanging up on me, etc over the four calls (this was about 1 there’s a fault on line but it’s booked to be repaired 2 she had to respond to a text). Then at the end she told me she was going to just text all my siblings to tell all of them, I said don’t you need to call them and get some ‘reassurance’ from them but I get told no they are busy with their families and she doesn’t want to disturb them!!! That’s when I lost the plot and spent an hour crying as once again I’m treated differently. If she can just text them and tell them she should have done the same to me but instead I got the horrific calls and stress over absolutely nothing exactly the same as my childhood.

I had to deal with all of that crap when she knows how sick I am (agoraphobia/anxiety based stuff hard to explain) so if I have stress or additional pressure/responsibilities pushed on me my body and mind literally can’t take it. So I sat shaking and crying for an hour and the worst bit that I got in a state about is the anxiety based illnesses I now have make me appear to everyone else I expect like my mum…..I was always completely calm and collected until the breakdown. I’m still in a state now 18 hours later as once it starts up I can’t control and manage it.

Sorry for the rant it’s so hard when I feel sick with the symptoms again because of how someone else is treating me.

Ah @AttilaTheMeerkat I'm glad your aunt is being looked after. The men children sound like chocolate teapots! Probably making things worse than better, is there a way your aunt can have them barred from the ward?
@Tbry I recognise so much of what you're saying. I also was given the parent role while a toddler and from then pretty much everything that could be blamed for going wrong landed at my door. It took about 10 years to stop being on hyperalert and even now I find myself clicking back into that mode if I feel threatened. It's exhausting! Take care of yourself and know it's not you and you're not on your own with these responses. The training and conditioning doesn't go away easily.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau is there a way you can get an advocate who can put your voice and your truth across? I'm disgusted that your family have so much influence that your medical notes are so factually incorrect. Your notes should have 'don't listen to family members' across the top. I would be looking to put in a request to have them rectified under GDPR when you feel able to. Your boyfriend sounds like he's a good egg and has your back, and your cat is just lovely. Let them look after you, even if it's from a distance.

@tbry really sorry you are going through this. My advice would be if you can keep writing things down, keep telling sane people then you have a record to hold on to. You’ve been parentified to a horrible degree and it’s honestly not your job at all. It’s OK for you to tell someone you just don’t have the resources to care for them right now. There are helplines - pretty useless honestly but for people who just want to offload they might help. You can’t be expected to take on their mental load.
@Parentalalienation I am a data protection lawyer so maybe when I’m doing a bit better I’ll put some legal stuff in train, I’m not up to it now though. My boyfriend is lovely but he’s 21 and going through his own shit and the cat is just a baby that we don’t know much about her upbringing - I basically burst into tears every time she comes to see me to check that I’m OK (I don’t speak cat but we have a meow back and forth before she resumes exploring). There’s a really difficult uncomfortable space that I’m in where I’m aware that my mother has committed several legal offences but if I even accused her I’d still have to live with her at her mercy. I was referred to the DV specialist at the hospital about a year ago and my mother opened and read the letter - the fallout was nuclear.

Ah, yes.

My childhood pretty much eneded at 11.
Made to look after siblings who abused me, then in later teens nursed mum through 2 nervous breakdowns.
She would scream at me at 2am to call an ambulance because she was dying.

I missed out on so much...she got worse as I got older. I want allowed on school residential trips after a while.
Had to drop out of 2 holidays with friends.
It was pretty dysfunctional, really :(

I can honestly say that the generational rot has stopped with me.

My kids are fucking awesome 😀 I'm so very proud of them and I tell them I love them all the time.

Bless you @user8800 . You sound like the definition of breaking the cycle in the best way. That is honestly some of the highest praise I can give. I’m sorry that you had to go through that and I’m glad you had the fractional little respites of trips out for a while. You were a little heroine.

Thank you @cecile x

I've basically parented the opposite way to my mother!

My heart bleeds for you @cecile. As a mother myself I cannot fathom the cruelty you are being subjected to by those who are supposed to protect you.

@Tbry like my sister, these flying monkeys are not even in the same country as me. She really is a fucking gobshite to contact people whose opinions I do not care about and who do not see me nor my son more than once every few years. She knows better than to contact anyone that actually knows me cos she knows they will tell her to cop on.

@Genuineweddingone this is more of a curiosity question but does it ever get mixed up when flying monkeys are also family members you love? The last time I broke contact my nana (currently dying of breast cancer, not allowed to see her) refused to even look at me when I visited because she knew she’d tell my mother and was frightened. My mother has now told me nana is frightened of me. Because 7st girls who can barely stand, are being supplied with alcohol and have never hurt a fly are terrifying. Whereas she is still literally wishing death on my grandfather.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau not really cos I will be honest I dont really love any of them. I did love my brother so much and my sister but over the years realised he is her golden child (even though he doesnt talk to her) and in recent years since having a child herself my sister seems to be her flying monkey. The two cousins she contacted I would be close enough to as in when they come home to this country we would have a few drinks and a catch up but they have historically come before me and my siblings in my mothers life so while I dont feel bitternes I also dont feel love for them they are just people I am blood related to. I have always been a person who considers friends her family and my friends are the best most loyal and wonderful people so I am not alone nor lonely I just do not really have any family anymore. My ds dad was here today and while he rarely sees his son he has my back and knows I have raised our child to be a phenomenal person. He appreciates I have raised him on both our behalfs and my mum is really only trying to ruin my rep as a good mother. Unfortunately for her she is preaching to the wrong congregation cos these people would not be missed from my life if they never contacted me again. I guess you get used to being the scapegoat child and blacksheep and never allow yourself to get close to others within the family.

It sounds like you’ve been an amazing parent and I’m glad you’ve been spared at least that conflict, although obviously it would have been better for you never to have been through it. Hold very tightly to the ones you love. You deserve it.

Forgive me, but I'm curious. How old are you?

I imagined from how mature and post together you are, you and your boyfriend would be in your forties minimum.

I’m 31 (but very infantilised and also autistic) and my BF is 21.