Flirting/emotional affair

[User101223]

Another of these bloody threads.

Together for 10 years, married for 4. Toddler and a baby. I have high-risk pregnancies, previous losses. Baby is a few months old and we've not had sex since they arrived. Not that unusual as we didn't have sex at this stage with older child but I've been feeling guilty. I'm BF so libido is low, baby doesn't sleep well, not much time or energy.

A hug this afternoon led to me apologising for the lack of sex. He said it was ok as he wasn't ready yet. I asked him what he meant, asked if it was that he didn't find me attractive anymore, or was he traumatised by the birth, or because I was BF. All no, he cared about me, I'm beautiful etc. I asked him if he was having an affair and he said no. I told him to please tell me what he meant as I was fearing the worst and he said he wouldn't tell me today.

So the day goes on and when I finally get the baby to sleep I asked him to tell me exactly what he meant. After much silence he eventually tells me he flirted with someone and felt if we had sex that I wasn't able to consent with full knowledge. He confessed that about a year ago he was struggling with masturbating a lot and it was difficult because I was very nauseous and touched out, pregnant over Christmas, not allowed to have sex on consultant orders etc. He met with a friend who was struggling emotionally and a hug he gave in support turned into a cuddle. He denies kissing her but says they got 'handsy'. He met her 5 or so more times and on at least one other occasion the same happened. She tried to kiss him and he turned her down.

I made him tell me who it was and they know he is married. She even came to our fucking wedding. I'm so bloody angry as I remember a couple of times he told me he was going to see her late at night because she was upset and I asked him not to go because I knew she was vulnerable and I didn't think it a wise position for either of them to be in. I am so furious that he ignored me. I have been taken for such a fool as I basically tried to warn him and he did it anyway.

What the fuck do I do? Leave him and destroy my children's family unit, or stay and never be able to trust him again?

He is on the sofa which means I'm doing all nightwakings on my own too. Selfish bastard.

I’m so sorry op, what a fucking idiot he is. Can you kick him out, at least for a while to get some space? Have you got someone who could come and stay to support you/help you with your DC whilst he’s gone? He needs to feel the full magnitude of what he has done and, unfortunately, I am not sure you know that yet. It is all too common for people to “trickle truth” at this point, tell you bits but not all and to try and minimise. Have a look at the Surviving Infidelity website, you will get great advice on there. He is a fool but please know this is absolutely NOT your fault, he did not take you for a fool, he showed himself to be a fool. And a selfish, cowardly Twat to boot. This is a problem with him, not you xxx

Hmm. Likely to be more to it than that I'm afraid.

Can you see the messages? Don't ask because he'll delete them.

Him telling you this could be a good sign - that whatever it was was over or it could mean he has an eye on the door.

You need to find out more so as to make an informed choice if you can.

What a selfish tit. So many men like this.

Hope you're OK. Tell some trusted friends if you can. Helps to talk about it.

Sorry op, they admit to the min. There is clearly more to this. Has he said what he wants to do, is he absolutely in or not?

Thank you for the support. We don't have any family nearby and a lot of close friends have a load of their own crap going on right now so I don't think it fair to dump this on them. I guess that's why I'm sharing here.

I don't think it was really messages, more that he went round to her house. I'm not convinced they actually had full on sex. I guess maybe I'm a fool for saying that but I don't think he would be stupid enough.

I'm so angry that he would do this to our children. I asked him why he didn't tell me the first time it happened and he said he didn't want me to lose the baby because of the upset. He thought if he left it a couple of years it might be better. Why he thought a few years later would help I don't know. Every day of that pregnancy I was terrified my baby would die, and he clearly didn't give a toss about that.

Sorry op.

Leave him.

You'll never get over this, he'll never stop unless he wants to. He may have been doing this all, or some of the duration of the relationship.

You can't destroy what you don't already have..

There is no family. There is no unit.

This is a terrible environment for all to remain in.

You'll only be miserable if you remain.. which will impact your children.

Don't teach them to remain in and tolerate dysfunctional unhealthy relationships and environments.

Stop having children by him. Stop giving him your energy, time, and body. He's done nothing to deserve you.

He’ll only have told you the absolute bare minimum he felt he needed to.

I’d be extremely shocked if he hasn’t slept with her.

He's definitely bullshitting you.
If she came to your wedding, do you have contact details?

I’ve no idea if he actually shagged her or not, none of us on here do. I would bet my mortgage he is lying to you at the minute though about what actually has happened. Unlike most of MN though, I do not believe that you cannot recover from this, as a couple. It will take a fuck ton of work from him - absolute honesty, transparency and remorse and literally years of hard work plus individual and joint therapy (research suggests recovery time from infidelity is 2-5 years). Has he got the balls to deal with literally years of your anger, upset, lack of trust, until those things can be rebuilt? Most cheating people don’t (if they had balls, they wouldn’t have done it in the first place) but occasionally, some surprise you and actually do the work. Only you can know if he will be one of the rare ones, but you don’t really know him at the minute. You have to watch and see, ignore his words and look at his actions. Alternatively, fuck him off and start again. In all honesty, probably the easier option.

Total disclosure or out. He did the deed. Sorry OP.

@User101223, I am very sorry that your H chose to abuse your trust and damage your marriage and family while you and your baby were at your most vulnerable.

What is his current status with his affair partner? Is he still in contact with her?

This isn’t flirting. At the least this is emotional infidelity with physical elements. However, it feels like he is lying and downplaying about the extent of their involvement. If they were meeting in OW’s home late at night, there would have been more sexual and emotional intimacy than he is admitting. His prioritizing her over your feelings and boundaries indicates that he was obsessed.

When you needed him the most, he was making a mockery of your trust and your suffering by making memories and having secrets with OW. I would be livid about his faithlessness, callous disregard, dishonesty and disloyalty.

First of all, I strongly advise you to send him away, at least for a while. He needs to feel the loss of you and to understand that you mean business. Personally, it would be game over for me, but if you want to reconcile he’s going to have to spit out the whole truth, be fully transparent, and dig deep (via IC, infidelity readings and websites) to examine and root out his selfishness and entitlement to pursue illicit intimacy and validation. If he doesn’t, this will happen again.

I get the feeling that OW is still very much on his mind and in the picture. If so, then any reconciliation will be false. I echo the suggestion that you check out survivinginfidelity. The resources and advice there will be a godsend to you.

So they got "handsy" but didn't kiss? Pull the other one. There's more to this.

@lovinglaughingliving I have her on Facebook and know her address. She's the ex of his old housemate. She even liked a photo I shared of the kids the other day.

@MsDogLady He called it flirting. Clearly downplaying it.
He hasn't cut off contact with her. I know he hasn't because a few weeks ago he said she wasn't in a great place and he'd given her the contact details for CALM.
He has a history of placing other people/things as his priority regardless of my feelings (like being desperate to help a friend move house or whatever when I'm at home struggling with 2 ill kids) in an attempt to be a good friend.

I think my first step is to tell him to message her to end all contact and see his reaction. If he isn't willing to then I guess that's my signal that he still doesn't care a toss about our marriage.

@LambriniBobinIsleworth He said he hugged her in comfort and they got 'handsy'. He declined kissing her because he said he only kisses people he loved and he loved me instead. I think I may actually believe that bit but not that nothing else occurred instead. Like he justified sleeping with her because it was just sexual and not an emotional thing?

I'm so sorry you're going through this. Please take care yourself first and foremost.

Sounds like you need some time to think and decide what's best for you. Is there someone that can help with the children to give you some headspace? Maybe just in the same house but an hour or so to have a bath and work out where your head is?

There's more to it than he's telling you.

Masturbating a lot, how is that relevant unless there is more to it? What does he mean by getting handsy? Handsy is somebody putting their hands on me on the dance floor when I don't want it, in this situation it sounds like it was both of them copping a feel....apparently fine if you don't kiss though?!
He also met on more than one occasion, late at night...a comforting hug does not just slip in to getting 'handsy' as a whoopsy moment, and he can't try and blame this on you because it happened to be around the time you couldn't have sex a lot for medical reasons.

I think you're getting a half truth here op and I would be very surprised if there wasn't more to it.
Why tf are they still in contact as well?

He said he hugged her in comfort and they got 'handsy'. He declined kissing her because he said he only kisses people he loved and he loved me instead. I think I may actually believe that bit but not that nothing else occurred instead. Like he justified sleeping with her because it was just sexual and not an emotional thing?

How do you feel about what he is saying op, it really sounds like he's trying to justify getting 'handsy' with somebody? On multiple occasions.

In your shoes I would probably be checking his messages, asking him to end all contact with this woman (the fact that he hasn't already speaks volumes) and possibly considering some time apart to decide if you can, or want to, move past this.

And she is vulnerable. Why is he doing anything sexual with a vulnerable woman? I would want to know why he thinks it’s okay to take advantage of a vulnerable woman?

Check his phone and tape a voice activated recorder under his car seat. You need to know your truth and reality so you can make an informed decision.

I’m confused about timings.

So his cheating occurred a year ago, you had sex before your baby was born but he’s only now concerned about your right to informed sexual consent over his ‘handsy’ behaviour? He’d already taken that. I call bs on it.

It’s already been said but I’d want a detailed explanation of what ‘handsy’ means. I was told early on in my husbands affair when he was allegedly ‘just kissing’ her that grown adults have sex and not to believe the teenage nonsense. Hard lesson learnt.

My advice would be as follows

• self care this is horrible for you with a tiny baby and little one
• get a detailed timeline and question him
• tell him he goes no contact with this woman and blocks her on all platforms to have any hope of getting through this
• be aware that if this did go further he could potentially have put you at risk of STIs during your pregnancy so you do need your answers
• then watch and wait

I can’t tell you whether to stay or go, I stayed but it is a HUGE risk (cheats are notorious re offenders) and you first need to see that he will offer full transparency and dig deep to uncover why he chose to seek validation from this woman. There could be an element of KISA knight in shining armour, but this makes him very unsafe for you because he’s seeking a damsel in distress to rescue for his ego kibbles. Even if he does everything right (rare) you may still realise this is a deal breaker for you but that takes time and processing.

I know @MsDogLady will have recommended Surviving Infidelity and I second that. It’s a great site with very experienced posters who will guide you through. If you don’t post, access their resources particularly the 180 which will give you a way of getting emotional distance to consider all your options.

I’m so sorry that when you needed him he was behaving in such a crappy way. You deserve so much better!

@User101223, he brought another woman into your marriage and she’s still there. His calling this a flirtation is pure gaslighting.

This affair has been going on for a whole year, and, as I thought, he hasn’t cut contact. OW is front and center in his mind, feelings and allegiance. He’s still ‘in infidelity’ and is enjoying playing the KISA to her damsel. That dynamic is an emotional connection that builds closeness, and can be extremely intoxicating.

He appears to be justifying their intimate touching as acceptable because he didn’t kiss her. However he defines ‘handsy’ to you, there will have been more. If he felt an ounce of remorse for his emotional and physical betrayal, he would have distanced himself from OW long ago. Instead he has continued the affair and is ‘not ready’ for intimacy with you, his Wife. He is protecting what they have and doesn’t want to betray OW.

There can be no chance of marital recovery until he completely cuts contact with her and comes clean with remorse. He needs to experience a sharp, effective consequence for his faithless behavior, so show him the door while you process all this.

I'm sorry Op...but your dh was going over to her house in the evenings as she was in a bad place !
And now he suddenly comes out with this nonsense about not being able to have sex with you because he didn't tell you that a yr ago he was " handsy" with another woman. Plus the utterly ridiculous not kissing as I only kiss people I love and I love you... 🤮.
And he thinks you'd believe that ? Is all that happened??

I'd be very interested in why he's telling you now.
I doubt it's anything to do with lack of sex between you both.
Is she threatening to tell you all ?

Ah, the rescuer. Often referred to as 'White Knight Syndrome'.

Probably not told you who she is incase you ask her and you find out they did more than fumble. Demand to know who it is...

He broke the family unit, by his actions. Not you. Of course they kissed, he is trying to get away with minimal damage. I'm so sorry for you.

In my experience, men like this will never tell you anything they don't think you already know, and downplay that too. Sorry op but chances are he did have sex with her.

Its also not a good sign that he isn't remorseful enough to cut all contact without you asking him too.

Alone in her house,their clearly attracted to one another and all they did was "cuddle and get handsy".

OP if you believe that,you'll believe anything.They were having sex.

I would contact her directly now, before he does

It sounds like this emotional affair/full blown affair has been on going from a year ago, as she is still in his life, he is still contacting her.

Ask to see all the messages right now, before he deletes them