Flirting/emotional affair

[User101223]

Another of these bloody threads.

Together for 10 years, married for 4. Toddler and a baby. I have high-risk pregnancies, previous losses. Baby is a few months old and we've not had sex since they arrived. Not that unusual as we didn't have sex at this stage with older child but I've been feeling guilty. I'm BF so libido is low, baby doesn't sleep well, not much time or energy.

A hug this afternoon led to me apologising for the lack of sex. He said it was ok as he wasn't ready yet. I asked him what he meant, asked if it was that he didn't find me attractive anymore, or was he traumatised by the birth, or because I was BF. All no, he cared about me, I'm beautiful etc. I asked him if he was having an affair and he said no. I told him to please tell me what he meant as I was fearing the worst and he said he wouldn't tell me today.

So the day goes on and when I finally get the baby to sleep I asked him to tell me exactly what he meant. After much silence he eventually tells me he flirted with someone and felt if we had sex that I wasn't able to consent with full knowledge. He confessed that about a year ago he was struggling with masturbating a lot and it was difficult because I was very nauseous and touched out, pregnant over Christmas, not allowed to have sex on consultant orders etc. He met with a friend who was struggling emotionally and a hug he gave in support turned into a cuddle. He denies kissing her but says they got 'handsy'. He met her 5 or so more times and on at least one other occasion the same happened. She tried to kiss him and he turned her down.

I made him tell me who it was and they know he is married. She even came to our fucking wedding. I'm so bloody angry as I remember a couple of times he told me he was going to see her late at night because she was upset and I asked him not to go because I knew she was vulnerable and I didn't think it a wise position for either of them to be in. I am so furious that he ignored me. I have been taken for such a fool as I basically tried to warn him and he did it anyway.

What the fuck do I do? Leave him and destroy my children's family unit, or stay and never be able to trust him again?

He is on the sofa which means I'm doing all nightwakings on my own too. Selfish bastard.

What the fuck does 'handsy' mean exactly? And surely if you're 'handsy' with someone you'd be kissing them at the same time otherwise it would be very odd, wouldn't it? Groping someone without kissing them? Are we talking she was wanking him off with him using 'handsy' to play it down - he already played handsy down to flirting. Really it all sounds horrendous.

He also playing power/head games with you - I'll tell you that something is wrong but I won't tell you what it is today, you have to wait for that until I decide.

None of it even makes sense, if this happened a year ago then surely you've had sex in the last year? So why is he saying that he's not ready for sex now, and that it would be without full consent now? Why was it ok to have sex previously after this happened? He sounds like a complete head fuck.

He's ruined the trust OP and he sounds like a complete arsehole. I'm so sorry it turned out this way - I know after 10 years you think you're good, that you can feel safe and secure and believe in what you've got. Then you find you're married to an asshole and your whole world implodes. Do what's right for you now OP, stay or go as suits you, put in all the clauses you want - but never forget that this is not someone to be trusted in any way, shape or form.

Oh I’m sorry OP. I also have a baby and have been betrayed by my partner too. It seems to be a common thing that these selfish men think that as we grow their children and are exhausted that they deserve to get their kicks elsewhere 😡

What I can say is if they’ve met multiple times then it’s definitely more than just handsy. Also who gets handsy without kissing? More has certainly happened and how disgusting that this woman is on your fb liking photos of your kids knowing full well she’s been inappropriate with your husband.

Personally I’d contact her and say you know she’s slept with your husband and how dare she do this to you and get away with it. Then if she comes back saying it was just once or they never slept together at least you know from her as I doubt your partner will be honest.

As for you I think you should get him to go stay elsewhere. I’ve had to do this currently as I can’t show that I allow this type of behaviour. I’m not even sure I can take my partner back right now and the space is helping me figure out my feelings.

Sending hugs.

He slept on the sofa last night and I made him take the baby for a couple of hours so I could try and sleep. He then left for work but will be back soon as he's doing a split shift.

In some ways I wonder if I need to know if they had sex or not. I mean it doesn't really change the fact it was all a betrayal regardless of how far it went.

To the people asking - I think we may have had sex when I was overdue with the baby in an attempt to oust them. He wasn't all that keen but I thought it was to do with fear. We lost a baby at birth and I got sepsis. But I was told in December last year I needed to go on pelvic rest to save the pregnancy so we really haven't had sex in a year. I'll book into a sexual health clinic anyway.

The thought of leaving him terrifies me for the children. If it was just me I could walk away but I can't bear the thought that they wouldn't be able to live with me the whole time because of something he did.

I've read through some of the Surviving Infidelity - thank you for that suggestion.

I'm so sorry you're going through a similar thing. I let him see meal at my most vulnerable and yet he obviously didn't care at all.

I'm not sure contacting her will help. In some ways I don't want to give her the satisfaction of knowing she's hurt me. I've blocked and deleted her. He only told me who it was because I said I needed to know if I was ever going to he put in a position where I would be nice to her, not knowing she had destroyed my marriage.

Feeling for you. Maybe look into a therapist that specialises in betrayal. I found one that I might go to myself.
Yes like you said it may not be worth knowing if it was sex or not as it’s still a betrayal - I think the main issue with not knowing what it was is that he’s not being honest at a crucial time when he should be. If he can’t be honest about what happened how can you trust him at all?

He’s got a lot of work to do but if he’s willing to (and you are) then I’m sure you can make amends. Many people reconcile.

At the moment I just feel sick at the thought of being sexual with my OH again after what he’s done. But at the same time if I continue without sex then that’s also a problem.

However a lack or sex shouldn’t mean they go find it elsewhere. A relationship should be close enough to talk about these issues.

@User101223, it will be impossible to move forward without his complete honesty and transparency.

You can’t rebuild if he’s still treating you with contempt by lying and downplaying. Besides the corrosive effect of the dishonesty and secrecy, you wouldn’t even know what you’re forgiving. Likewise, you can’t rebuild if he continues interacting with OW and channeling his emotional energy into her. They are not and never will be platonic friends. It’s telling that he wanted to protect her, so pushed back against naming her. You had to demand that he no longer put you in a humiliating position before he’d cough up her identity.

It sounds like he has some narcissistic traits. His wants/needs are primary, often to your detriment. He thrives on external validation, i.e. playing the hero to friends and OW, and will devalue and dismiss your boundaries to get that, even when you are struggling to keep his baby alive and nurture his toddler. You’ve been through devastating losses and illness to create a family. Where is his respect, cherishment and loyalty?

His narrative of monogamy doesn’t jive with yours. In his view, he is entitled to comfort other women with emotional support, long embraces, and intimate touching (and possibly more), as long as he doesn’t kiss them. In his view, he is entitled to keep you blind while carrying on with a woman in your orbit, who is watching and commenting on your postings.

He really is a shit husband and father. You and your children deserve better.

Well it was more than just flirting. It had been going on for 8 months. He denies having sex but I've booked an STI check incase. He won't show me messages. He says it will be like twisting the knife. But that just makes me think there is more to come out. He says he ended it in August, yet he didn't feel the need to block and delete her number.

He has tainted all the happy memories of this year, including my baby's birth. I'm now just thinking that all he was thinking of was when he could see her instead of being stuck in hospital with his fat mess of a wife.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. He doesn't deserve you and tainting those memories is a hard thing to move past. How are you feeling? What is your gut telling you?

Please do not refer to yourself as a “fat mess”. That is absolutely not true and has nothing to do with what he did. He is a lying shithead but that is his problem. I know you are devastated but I really think you need to find your anger here. How bloody DARE he not “let” you see the messages? NOT HIS CHOICE. He chose this for you, he chose to bring someone else into the marriage without your consent, he no longer gets to choose anything because he has demonstrated, very clearly, that the choices he makes are not in your best interest. I am sure he will have deleted most of it but messages can be retrieved. Personally I’d be telling him he gives me the phone or he’s out, for good.

@Hadenough2021 That I can't do anything before Christmas, because I have a 2 year old that already can't work out why I'm sad and I don't want to ruin any more for them. But how I'm going to share a bed with him when we're away for Christmas I don't know. He wants to try counselling first, for him and us together. But I don't if I have the fight in me.

@UtterlyButterly2048 Thank you. I will tell him that. He knows I'm seething, I just can't find the words when he's being all pathetic about his shame. He said he didn't delete them as he knew it would look worse. But he's probably gone through and done it with the worst now.

He came home last night when I was getting the kids ready for bed and was all solemn and quiet. Then my 2yo told him I'd been crying today and he turned the waterworks on to. But real remorse or manipulation? Who knows.

@User101223 It’s amazing how much strength we find when it comes to the kids! I know it feels like the world is ending but you will get through this, with or without him. And rest assured this says so much more about him than it ever does about you x

It won’t be real remorse, not yet. These things always play out the same way. Currently he’s in panic and shit himself mode. He had a narrative that he convinced himself was true, to justify the fucking horrific things he was doing. Usually it’s along the lines of you weren’t paying him enough attention, he didn’t mean to hurt you, it was only x and not y, you were never meant to find out, blah blah. It’s utter horseshit of course and doesn’t stand up to the slightest bit of scrutiny. Shine a light on it and it all falls apart and that’s what is happening now. He is starting (only starting mind) to see that in fact, he is a thundercunt. And that terrifies him - but it’s STILL all about him. Hence his pathetic weeping and wailing. Twat.

Real remorse comes when he stops thinking about himself (and, let’s be honest, he has only been thinking about himself for months) and starts thinking about you. About the devastating effects on you, about how this has changed the course of your life completely, about how he has literally put a bomb under you and your family. By choice.

He may never get to real remorse, some people don’t, but he might. It’s painful and awful for all concerned but you can do NOTHING now, other than watch and see. Don’t trust a word he says, watch his actions. Do not go to couples therapy currently. This is not a relationship problem, this is an entitled, selfish prick of a husband problem that HE needs to fix. He needs to own up to the lies he told himself and you and admit just how far he’s fallen from the man he told himself and you that he was.

You need to rally up all possible support and treat yourself with absolute care and attention. Fuck him, prioritise you over everything. He will sort his shit out or he won’t. And, know this, you will be golden, either way.

Absolutely EVERYTHING @UtterlyButterly2048 do not trust him as far as you can throw him!

‘He won't show me messages. He says it will be like twisting the knife.’

Absolute bs! This will be ALL about protecting himself and who he believes he is! If he will not show you those messages then he is not being transparent.

‘He said he didn't delete them as he knew it would look worse.’

More bs, he’s trying to deflect from his behaviour and attempt to down play his actions. Do not let him get away with it.

‘He wants to try counselling first, for him and us together. But I don't if I have the fight in me.’

This is awful. This affair is about him. His weaknesses, his shitty coping mechanisms, his need for ego kibbles and validation. He broke the coupledom, not you. Do not agree to this. This is where betrayed get sucked into some nonsense ‘unmet needs’ rubbish. Going down this route does not heal anything. He needs to heal himself first.

Don’t fall for the weeping and wailing. It’s still all about himself. Shake, guilt, regret none of those are about you and your pain. They’re all about him. He wasn’t in a state while he was having his affair (if that’s even finished).

This is watch and wait time. This is get distance and heal yourself time. You may find that this is a deal breaker for you yet. You won’t know until you’ve processed what this means for you and that takes time. And a need to block out his background noise!

Oh my goodness

Him refusing to show you the messages is like him slapping you in the face!
How fucking dare he refuse!!!

Please please do not fall for his bullshit.

I agree with a PP about messaging the OW.

I'd say 'I know about you and Twat face, he has confessed everything. We are seeing Christmas out together for the sake of our child, and after that he will be available on a full time basis. Good luck'

Watch him crap his pants when she tells him. When he asks what the fuck, tell him that as he won't be honest with you, you have to assume the worst and you are planning for exactly that.

I'd be out and about a lot aswell now. Make him have the kids so that you can go out. When he asks where, oh nowhere just into town. Let him think you're seeing a solicitor. Which you absolutely should by the way, just to find out where you stand. You don't have to do anything with the info right now.

Do you have RL friends/family you can confide in? If so, do this ASAP.
If not keep posting here and we will help you.

What a piece of shit!

Ah protecting his self image by not allowing full access to your truth how thoughtful of him. He wants to control your truth and history by only him having full access to what has been going on. How controlling. He is following the script to the letter. (They usually also accuse you of being controlling).

They do this to:
a) protect their image. They have someone blowing smoke up their butt. They think they are the dogs bollocks. They cannot accept the person they truly are (cheaters often have poor self esteem/people pleasing traits) and they want to preserve their self image. If he has to admit he’s a lying scumbag then where does that leave him.

b) they lie to the ow (unsurprisingly) and don’t want you to see the lies in black and white. The nonsense they have spun either to get her into bed or to continue getting the dopamine fix texts (ego kibbles).

c) they want to control your truth so they get to call the shots and make decisions. Fuck by being open and honest and communicating effectively you may want to have a say in your life. He doesn’t want that. He’d rather you be in the dark, reeling, while he gets time and space to make his choices and enjoy a few more kibbles this lady is prepared to throw his way (he thinks he’s the prize after all).

Op you need to be strong and go against your gut. Google the 180. This is to protect you, not win him back. The pick me dance does NOT work. He is a sewer rat , you are the prize. His personality traits are poor and not good relationship material. He’s not safe. Protect yourself. Infidelity causes PTSD.

Marriages don’t cheat, poor partners do. Counselling that focuses on unmet needs will not do you any good. Cooking him steak, watching his fave films and oral sex on demand will not increase someone’s integrity, loyalty or honesty. Just like shagging the reliable and honest postman (he’s always in time and never steals the post) won’t fulfil your unmet needs of honesty and reliability.

This is outrageous.

He still feels entitled to steal your agency and control the narrative. News Flash: As the betrayer, he doesn’t get to say no to your recovery requirements or cherry-pick what you’re allowed to know.

@User101223, he is not reconciliation material. His blocking transparency by refusing to provide their chat shows his continued agenda to obstruct you and hide the truth. The messages are clearly damning evidence of his
line-crossing and lack of integrity, and he is determined to protect his image…and OW’s. A truly remorseful man would be an open book, providing all of the information that you request and deserve. He probably has deleted the worst, but I would demand to see what’s there.

He is still in wayward mode: egocentric, controlling, slippery and duplicitous. Don’t be swayed by his self-absorbed boo hoo act. He’s feeling very sorry for himself because his carefully constructed, cake-eating double life is crashing down around him and he’s scrambling for control. Those crocodile tears are not sorrow or empathy for you, but he is using them to manipulate you.

I agree with @UtterlyButterly2048 and @Susieb2023 that going to couples counseling would be an error. For one thing, his refusal to come clean to you indicates that he would manipulate the sessions. Most importantly, protecting his fidelity was his responsibility and his failure, not yours. You/your relationship are not to blame for his unethical choices. In my view, the unmet needs theory is a damaging, victim-blaming travesty.

@User101223, until he acknowledges and takes accountability for all of his destructive behavior, prioritizes your healing with full transparency, and works intensively with a professional on his deficiencies which led to his emotional and physical adultery, he will remain a danger to your emotional health and
well-being.

Anger is a poor advisor. I would say don't make rush decisions. Certainly you don't want to be playing into the other woman's hands. She will be over the moon if you show your husband the door. I am not saying you should take him back. Just try to stay calm, go for walks, book yourself and the children into a cheap accommodation for a a few days, contact the counsellor etc. No mad outbursts at your husband until you have a plan. Looks like he is looking for an excuse to go. Don't give him this excuse until you decided what YOU want. This could take time. Whatever you do remember that anger a very poor advisor

My heart has gone out to you reading this. What an awful time for you. I have had a similar experience of marriage suddenly dissolving immediately prior to Christmas with two small children due to horrific male behaviour. My only luck was he walked out so I didn't have to make the decision.

You will feel so vulnerable just now with a small baby and you will be in shock. I fully understand you will feel that you can't do this. But your life of happiness with him is gone. He has broken it. You may find the strength and power to kick him out and let the world know why. You deserve a better life of your own making, not a second best one trying to forgive something unforgivable.

Further to my earlier message... some husbands deserve to go. However out of my divorced friends 2 definitely regret chucking their cheating husbands in a hurry. For one of them I definitely think it would have worked out in the end. Don't make rush decisions. I suggest you go somewhere for a week to gather your thoughts. You can book a cottage very cheaply out of season. Let him see what his life is going to be like without you and the children on a daily basis. BTW, I am 100% convinced he is shagging the other woman.

Thanks for the support. I don't really have anyone I can confide in in RL. Like I said all my friends have big enough stuff going on in their lives to deal with this - bereavement, suicidal partner, new baby imminent etc. I don't want to tell my family as I'm worried their anger would cause me to make a rash decision. I also don't want it to affect Christmas. I really desperately want my son to have a good Christmas incase next year its one of swapping houses and parents.

Last night I told my husband that I needed to see the messages and it wasn't his decision to say yes or no. He did agree but said they were horrible and that he wouldn't want to stay married to him if he read them. That's exactly why I need to see them. But then the baby woke and wouldn't go down. Part of the issue is that I'm trying to function on 3-4 hours sleep so decision making is going to be crap.

I'm trying the 180. It's hard when I still feel like I need answers.

I am really sorry you are in this situation. It's probably not a good idea for you to see the messages- I am sure it's an affair in full swing, it would be very painful for you to see and won't change anything. Your husband is clearly looking for permission to leave- don't give him this permission until YOU have made a decision how to go forward. You don't need to tell your family until you have thought things through. However I think it will be difficult to stay under the same roof and not get into an argument. As I have said earlier you can book a self catering cottage for a f£200-300 per week right now. Go and stay somewhere for a week. It doesn't need to be far. Sending you love and hugs

My heart goes out to you.

I've been through it and it really feels like something inside breaks. I dont think cheaters realise the monumental grief that hits you when you find out.

I'm sorry, but it sounds like this has gone further than he is saying. Don't believe a word he is saying, he is protecting himself. He needs to show you messages - it will hurt but you need to know everything to heal and make a decision - and be open and honest, communication is key.

Take your time, don't worry about him and how he is feeling. You are the important person in this. Look after yourself, work out what you want, how to survive this, how to possibly continue without him. You need all the facts. But first, treat yourself kindly.

In no way is what he done a reflection on you or your relationship. This is his failing and his fault. Do not accept any blame, if a relationship has flaws then you work on it together, you dont just step out.

This is his chance to prove who he is, he may fail or he may step up.

Either way, take each day a step at a time and protect yourself and your heart.

This will be incredibly hard and will hurt but you are stronger than you think.

I am sending you all the love in the world. x

I would bet good money that the main reason he doesn't want you to read the messages isn't even that they'll confirm he slept with her (which it sounds like he probably has I'm afraid) but because he will have been spinning a narrative to her that you know is completely false, and he can't bear the ego pain / shame of watching you see him bare faced, outright lying (and probably playing the victim) to someone else for a shag.

He may have said bad things about you / your relationship / your shared history etc. While I know it's like scratching an itch, please do think about whether you really do want to see what he's said in those messages.

If what he's done already is enough to end the relationship (it would be for me) then I personally wouldn't want to see all the messages because I know I wouldn't be able to unsee them and I would be concerned that he would have said some very hurtful (likely untrue) things that would stick with me and cause me harm moving forwards. I appreciate some people would still rather see them though.

I really feel for you

I read the messages. Some were just chat but lots reference calls and meeting up. The worst were back in January where he's fawning all over her and telling her how attractive she is and what he wants to do. Some he says disgusting stuff and then goes round. He still denies sex. When he told her he was no longer going to contact her she said she didn’t understand as nothing happened so I don't know what to believe. But from the messages there was certainly the hope they would from his side at least. And anyone with any morals wouldn't keep inviting a married man to their house late at night.

It was always late at night they met, and he would wait until I was asleep and then go. There were a few times I woke to find him not in bed but I just assumed he had fallen asleep in front of the TV. The bit I found the hardest was the couple of weeks after my baby was born and he hasn't even told her, and then like week 3 he sends a photo of him holding the baby saying he can't get away and then an hour or so later he does go. He leaves his exhausted wife with a toddler and a newborn to see another woman.

I told him I can't make any decisions before Christmas. And he's finally got a sleeping bag out now so he knows he's on the sofa long term. He said he would bring it with him when we stay with family, and at his parents we can probably even get away with him in another room and use the excuse of the baby not sleeping. Ugh what a fucking mess.

He went to shag, there is absolutely zilch chance he did not. I am so sorry OP.