Break up at 40, childless

[Mellownellie]

Hi all, just looking for some words of wisdom really or maybe just to write it all down…not sure really. Relationship of 8 months just ended at the weekend and I’m still in a bit of shock. Met a lovely man who I could see a future with and thought we were so happy. I’m absolutely devastated it’s over but more devastated for the reasons and wonder if I handled it badly. He has a dc (aged 4) from previous Ltr. I hadn’t met her and was conscious of not putting any pressure on him to do so, although I would very much have liked to. He shares 50/50 custody with his ex. I’ve always wanted a child and we’d spoken about it early on and while he wasn’t 100% committing to wanting another he also said he’d be open to it in the future and that he wouldn’t be with me if that’s not what he wanted. I raised it again at the weekend to check we were still on the same page and he said he absolutely wouldn’t want another. I was shocked and got a bit emotional and not sure if my reaction then ruined everything. We both cried quite a lot and I left that night so we could both have some space to think things over. He called me 2 days later and ended it saying it wouldn’t work and it would only be harder in the future if we were on such different pages. I don’t disagree with that but he was so cold and brutal when he ended it that I can’t get my head round us not discussing it more. He also told me that he’d not really had feelings for me which felt particularly cruel when i felt we’d got so close, met families, been on holiday, spent all his child free time with me.
im now missing him desperately, so sad at the break up but also wondering if I’ve run out of time completely to find anyone and should have kept my mouth shut. Maybe my reaction that night made him lose all feelings for me. Over time he said he was planning on introducing me to his dc and I could have been part of that family and that he saw me in his long term future.
sorry for the rant, I’m all over the place as you can probably tell!

I am so sorry this has happened and feel for you. Please don’t date people who are open to potentially having a child while stringing you along at this age. I would suggest really making an effort to meet someone in the real world.

Thank you so much for all your support and comments/advice. I guess the conversations we did have were more on a hypothetical basis of “would you want one in the future” rather than “do you want one with me”. He asked me what I was looking for on our second date and as part of that he said he was also wanting another child. It’s so hard to believe he didn’t have feelings for me, unless he was an excellent actor. I feel very discarded even though I know that’s not really the point. But I know there are other good guys out there too, and I’m determined to not be down too long.

People don't just 'lose feelings'. Tbh he sounds like he's throwing a strop because you got him to out-himself (that he was wasting your time). Hense the comment in order to punish you. But he probably didn't have much other than shallow feelings in anyway, because he's the sort of person who can be so cold and callous...and they aren't known for genuine feelings.

You've had a lucky escape. Even though it may not feel like it atm. I'd try not to fixate on men and kids. Focus on other dreams for now. What will be will be.

I'm so sorry Mellownellie, you must be hurting terribly.

I think part of the problem with this sort of impasse is that there is quite a socially-embedded intuitive timeline about what is "too fast", "too presumptuous" etc (to the point of being unromantic, or whatever) to bring up certain Serious topics like wanting children, and people I think find it hard to diverge from this instinctive timeline. But it CANNOT rationally apply when one party is a woman of 40. Bluntly, wasting 8 months of fertile life of a woman of 40 is biologically equivalent to wasting half a decade or more of fertile life of a woman in her middle 30s. I would expect a man of his presumable age to be at least dimly aware of this.

It'a certainly a major positive that it happened now and not 3, 6, 12 months in the future. I know that doesn't make it any easier at the mo, but it's an "objective" positive even if it is rather cold comfort.

You can likely still conceive. As a previous poster mentioned, I'd definitely think about looking into going it alone - nothing precludes you meeting someone later down the line, but very conceivably (scuse the pun) the ideal candidate for a life shared may not present themselves for several more years, and while at 40 you still have time, at 45 the window will in all likelihood have closed.

This.

At 40, OP needs to be honest about wanting children - 8 months isn't too early to have a discussion. We're not talking about the TTC conversation, we're talking about checking in about whether he wants more children at all. At 40, she can't afford to shilly-shally around with blokes who aren't sure if they want children/more children.

I think it's far better things ended than you had covered up your feelings and hung on to see if he'd change his mind, OP.

Anyone you date needs to be on the same page about children, if you're going to have your chance to try for a family naturally.

After 8 months I’d be running for the hills
each to there own but I’d couldn’t commit to something as enormous and life changing as having a child after 32 weeks

it would set alarm bells for a happy accident to happen

I agree. I think when you date in your late 30/early 40s you need to have certain conversations very early on as you don't have time to waste with someone who doesn't want same things and isn't building the relationship with the same goals.

Saying whether you want children in the future is not a commitment, it's just saying whether they're in your life plan. It's normal for couples to discuss where they see their lives going.

Fucking ridiculous to be afraid to discuss it when you're of a certain age.

If you're afraid of "accidents" and don't trust your partner then take responsibility for contraception or end the relationship. 🙄

They had discussed and he did end it

Which is for the best. Be far worse if she'd waited another several months and then found out he was not in fact open to having more children as he originally suggested.

I’m so sorry
I don’t necessarily think he’s been cruel just very honest and it’s best you know now
still it fucking hurts

so sounds like you now have two projects
healing after the breakup
but also making some serious decisions if you want to do it alone ?

bluntly at 40 I’d prefer to invest time into this than finding another man

I am in the same situation as you @Mellownellie only a little older. It’s devastating. If you could do with someone to “chat” to (I know I could, I don’t know anyone IRL in the same situation) then please send me a private message.

@sheetspread I agree with what you have said. I left a 5 year relationship at 35 because he changed his mind about children and I felt seriously led on. I met someone at 37, we had the conversation relatively early on and I had our son this year at 39. When you’re that age, you have these conversations earlier and people usually know what they want in life.
I seriously have flashbacks to my last relationship a lot and it must have affected me deeply. I would often dream at night now that I find myself without children or need IVF, and then I wake up in a panic and my son is in his bed beside me.
That being said, I’m also an example of how fertility doesn’t fall off a cliff after 35. It was actually pretty easy for me to get pregnant despite PCOS and Endometriosis and my age. Same for my best friend, just had her 3rd at 41, also fell pregnant without problems.
OP, please consider having a child on your own if this is what you want.

Again though, this logically just can't apply to couples where the woman's fertile life has almost run out. If you put off deliberating for a year and then decide actually nah, then you've potentially done away with any possibility she can have kids. It surely goes without saying that you can't take the "well, let's see" approach available to 25-year-olds.

I think after less than 8 months, you don't really know, and asking so soon in the first flush of a relationship you aren't really going to get the same answer. He has a child already do that doesn't have the urgency. Maybe he didn't think about it, so he didn't really ' know' until she asked again, then realised he didn't want to be bounced into having another child so early in the relationship. Frankly, it's not his fault OP is 40, and he has his existing 4 year old who OP hasn't even met to consider. I agree concentrate on looking into having a child on your own rather than looking for a man. Men can come later if you still want it

At 40, OP needs to be honest about wanting children - 8 months isn't too early to have a discussion. We're not talking about the TTC conversation, we're talking about checking in about whether he wants more children at all.
You could discuss this on a first date and it wouldn't be a red flag. OLD apps and sites encourage you to mention it in your profile whether you are open to having a family. If you want a family at some point it would be pointless dating someone who knew they didn't want children - at any age.
It's not about committing to having children with your current date.

I disagree, I think at 40 you don't want to wait for a few years to discuss these matters, I don't blame you for broaching the subject. Unfortunately he is in no hurry, whereas you are. It is what it is, it sucks for you but you need to get back on your feet. I really hope this is not it for you, try not to think that. Consider going on your own, or dating again (ruthlessly so), adoption etc. There are other ways and I think you should give it your all if you want a child. Chin up!! And best of luck to you!!!

This is good advice.

You are really vulnerable to being strung along by the next man you meet. They are all smart enough to say “ I don’t know / I’ve not decided yet / I’m not closed to the idea “ when they meet a child less woman of 40 who says she wants kids.

For the OP, I'd stop dating men with children. That's a can of worms. They might not want another. This one didn't.

I stand by what I said earlier in that it was completely crazy to be having a 2nd conversation about him wanting a baby when she'd not yet been introduced to his child. It was kind of obvious that a baby wasn't on the cards any time soon without even being made part of his child's life first. At 40 the OP doesn't have this kind of time to waste.

What you need to guard against is viewing every man you meet as someone to have a child with. It's putting the cart before the horse. You need to see if you work as a couple first and if children result from that great and if they don't you still have a compatible partner you want to spend your life with. If this approach doesn't work for you get a sperm donor.

Because if you don't figure out if you work as a couple you're going to end up in a potentially bad relationship just for the opportunity to have had a child.

He has a 4 year old and he's been with OP for almost a year. So his last relationship didn't last long after having a child. Did that not raise alarm bells?

I'd also have been worried he'd not want to jump straight back into starting another family when he's not long left a previous one behind.

It's too complicated with men with other kids. Go it alone or date men with no children. But then if you date a man with no children and it is too late for you then they might end it for someone younger who can.

This is why I conceded defeat and looked for men who didn't want children beyond 40. I wasn't going to do it to myself anymore and I didn't want to be a single parent.

I don't think you were being unreasonable discussing kids early in a relationship. Mind as well be on the same page for things to progress. I suspect he was cold to help you move on to be honest. If he was upset he might have sent you mixed messages and you would have wasted time wondering if he was going to change his mind. My sister told her current partner when they met that not only did she not want children she had had her tubes tied while with her first hubby. Her 2nd hubby did want children but decided he liked her more so he stayed. She ended up changing her mind and had IVF and they have a wonderful teen boy. People do change their minds but its important to deal with what you have in front of you not maybes and whatifs.
Great you are keeping positive.
You sound to me like you want a family. Maybe be clear on that, that you would ideally like to have your own baby but would also with the right person be content with just being part of a family with step children and going from there.

If you look at the situation objectively, a man with 4 kids from a previous failed LTR is very unlikely to want to start from the newborn phase again, no matter what he says himself. The kids clearly played a role in the marriage breakdown and a new relationship means the chance to spend quality time with another adult. That's why things were so lovely when you could travel together, meet family etc. 8 months is also peak dating honeymoon period.

So even though he was a bastard for not giving a fully committed answer, it was still a tiny bit unreasonable to assume that a middle aged man with 4 kids would genuinely be keen to have another baby again. If the story was reversed (and excluding biological clock issues), nobody would expect a split-custody mother of 4 to want another newborn after 40.

Edit: Wanted to add that I know someone in the same situation and it ended very badly. In this case, the man did end up having a baby with his new girlfriend (later wife) after a relatively short phase of dating. She was vulnerable and exhausted from being a FTM and he didn't really care because he'd already been through the newborn phase 4 times. It became a constant battle of accusing him of not spending time with the new baby vs his other older kids and the marriage broke down acrimoniously after just 1 year. So you may have dodged a bullet there too. Stepchildren are ok if the new woman in the picture is just a partner. But once a new baby comes in the mix, everything becomes unpredictably difficult.

He hasn't got 4 kids. He's got one kid aged 4, that's how it reads to me.

But anyway, I agree with this: For the OP, I'd stop dating men with children. That's a can of worms. They might not want another. This one didn't.

Because it's not just a matter of him personally knowing if he wants more DC or not. He's got his existing DC to factor in, and at 4, they're changing all the time and a parent who is prioritising them might well change their mind about having another when they think about blending families and how it would work with their first DC and a step-sibling. If he's got 50-50 care, and the new DC would potentially be living with him full-time, that could make him feel like first DC was getting less of him and be a factor in sticking with the one. There's all kinds of things to consider in this scenario that goes way beyond the usual 'selfish man needs to decide if he wants DC because women's clock is ticking' arguments.

FWIW I think he's done the right thing by being unequivocal about it now, and it was good that the OP checked in on it as it's important to her, and at 40 I'd also think she needs to look into going it alone as unless the right man pops up who's gagging for a kid pronto, which in itself might involve some red flags, then there's not much time to look around and explore and hope for the best.

The way he put it about not having strong feelings after all is horrible, but try to see that as him doing you a favour because you can write him off as a twat and not think that you've missed out on anything amazing.