Am I the starter wife? AIBU

[sah89]

Hi, I've just been feeling like something is off and need outside opinion, I don't feel I can talk to my family/dh about this..
DH and I early/mid-thirties, both similar education level and jobs, similar cultural background, I'm child of immigrants and he moved here himself 6 years ago for job. DH's very driven career-wise, I've had an 'easier' path in that respect with the education my parents have paid for... but like him I've got funded scholarships etc. I have a secure job, he's on a rolling contract looking for permanency. His visa is linked to his job.
When we first started dating he talked a lot about his aspirations to work abroad (Europe, America) as he deems it more prestigious. At the time I thought ok this guy isn't going to stick around, sort of rolled with the relationship.. then covid, then he got his contract extended here after applying also abroad and not getting anything. In the meantime I carry on working from home and finishing my thesis. Then he proposes, I'm a bit surprised but say yes, the ring is nice, not like a 'shut up ring'. We marry in the next year, the date's decided by availability of venue etc but it sort of works out with his work visa renewal and if something goes wrong he can get a spousal visa. So it's not like he was pushing to get married so he can get spouse visa. He ends up staying on the work visa. With his work contract renewed he applies for permanent positions in the UK and none abroad. He's now applying for indefinite leave to remain.

We're renting, separate bank accounts (rental agency wouldn't let us change post signing contract but I guess if he wanted to....), no real joint assets in the 3 years we've been married.... his rolling (conditional on outside funding) contract means we've been hesitant to buy a house because if we have to move to a different city in a year, it would be a nightmare.

Before marriage we had the kids convo - yes, in a bit. I didn't want to push at that time because of his job stress. About 2 years ago we had a psychotic neighbour and discussed moving, and I motivated by the fact I don't want a baby in such an environment. A couple of months later we moved to a nicer area. Then we had another baby convo about timelines, he said 'when he gets citizenship' he'd feel more stable (??) I was surprised because I'd be mid-thirties by then and even like now I'd honestly rather sooner than later... I said it can take a while to conceive still, in his circle (colleagues/parents) late thirties is ok so it must generally be ok (I think this is a bit of a skewed view). I'm not on the pill, he is verrryyy careful around my supposed ovulation time with condoms. He said how about start trying in six months? I agree. Six months pass, he's still buying condoms, a few weeks later I ask if his timeline's changed.. he said he's been busy with work and slid off the topic.
He's been applying in the UK again and another potential dream job in Europe. He asked if I'd move to Europe with him if he gets it and I said I'd not like to move because I'd lose my job and it's a different language with likelihood of getting a similar job very low. Currently we earn the same, he wouldn't want me to be SAHM. I personally would prefer if I could give birth in the UK.

Given all this, I feel a bit.... sus. Just a tad, it's like I'm a bit of a stepping stone for him? he treats me well, better than any of my exes (maybe the bar is low)... but no tangible commitments/assets, it'd be a quick exit. backtracking on the baby, this weird obsession with a particular Europe location (which I suspect is to do with his ex girlfriend who lives in a completely different place now.. but my maybe-paranoid feeling is that he's trying to prove something.. just some of the things he said).
My question to you - do I sound deluded in my relationship with what I described above? or maybe I've such low self confidence that I don't think anyone would pick me just for me. I can hardly have an open conversation about this with him, it;s not like anyone would admit yeah I'm just with you for the quicker passport and then I'm off, see ya! come along if you want, no worries if not. and if I come out with such an accusation I sound a bit mad.
Stalling on commitments isn't due to me somehow changing behaviour after we got married.

How do I protect myself? I'm saving as much as I can now, I've got money for emergencies/more rent/deposit... anything else?
go get my ovaries checked to see how much time I've got there?

Hm. I’m not quite on the same page as everyone else. We know that your husband is ambitious, competitive, and way more focused on work than babies, but we don’t know more than that. Many men are like that. The posters assuming that your marriage is over are just doing the usual Mumsnet ‘My husband is so perfect, yours sounds shit, leave him asap’ that we see on most threads.🙄

If you’re early / mid-thirties your current husband is probably your only chance to become a mother, unless you’re lucky enough to be extremely fertile into your late thirties. You can get your AMH levels checked to get a rough idea of how fertile you currently are but the truth is that you won’t really know until you try. Does he not want children at all, as many here are assuming, or has he simply got his head buried in the sand about your age?

My husband procrastinates and puts off everything. At 31 I had a serious chat with him about my age and the implications for Down’s syndrome babies etc. He point blank refused to believe the statistics. But a middle-aged man had been in the news that week for dying in a race. So then I said “Do you accept that it is much easier and safer for a man to run a marathon at age 21 than it is at age 35?” Yes. “Do you understand that carrying a baby for nine months is much harder and much more dangerous than running a marathon?” Yes. “Then why are you asking me to do it in my late thirties when that’s so dangerous for both me and the baby?! I don’t want to wait that long, because it is very stupid.” He had a right sulk, but a few days later magnanimously announced that it was time to ttc. After 10 months of trying, we eventually conceived and had a lovely child who DH adores. (Weren’t able to have a second child though because my eggs stopped working somewhere between age 32 and 34 and even IVF drugs can’t make my ovaries work again.)

Get yourself on the pill, pronto.

You're on different chapters never mind the same page. He wants someone who'll go places with him without the responsibility of a child. Really, you want to stay here and are ready for a family now rather than later.

@FrizzledFrazzle yes, you're right about our situation. he's moved around a bit already before coming here, I've tried to ask him before marriage where he sees himself in 5ish years, he said it's a loaded question (this was even before I was bringing up baby timelines) and he said he wants to establish his career in the uk. I wouldn't discount he was being dishonest there. I think at this point it's either 1)get permanent position here or equivalent thereof (to which he's applying mostly) 2) keep applying postdocs, if his only option is to stay here he will 3) if he gets more 'prestigious' postdoc or anything else abroad he would have to 'think' and weigh it up against job in industry here.
I honestly don't want to wait 3-4 years until this next round of uncertainty, me and child being an option/backup/last resort/whatever. his other postdoc friends move for their non-postdoc spouses, people quit academia and get an industry job for more pay when baby is coming... i've seen a LOT. it's blatant priority setting.... that's why I feel bummed out.
@Vriddle @ValerieDoonican @neorotic thank you, I see it but I guess I don't want to see it
@Crushed23 hugs to you... I think savings wise I'm alright in the uk, then I'd be also entitled to his, we save about the same I think. if not I'll buy myself a nice handbag
@SleepingStandingUp thank you, great wording

Having read your subsequent posts and his "dangerous" comments, I think the above post is correct.

He's stringing you along, future faking.

You have some hard, brave, decisions to be make.

I think this view is conditioned by the fact you sadly suffered fertility problems in your early 30s. I disagree that OP’s best chance to have the family she wants is with a man who has completely different priorities and who keeps moving the goalposts. At 33-34, she still has time to find a more suitable partner to have a baby with. (If she were 43, I would perhaps be agreeing you…)

@Eddielizzard thank you, yes... settling the score, I agree...
@Quitelikeit thank you... at this point, I don't even know any more. sometimes I think of just giving up and floating wherever he takes me (or not). I think I'd have more emotional trouble abroad than actual financial trouble... I gave up one dream position already, now I'm in another really good one. the people are really great, I could spend my whole career here. it just feels like home, you know? the one I gave up felt extremely like home (I did work there before I gave it up totally, so I'm not just projecting)
I feel like I got things handed to me very quick, objectively I worked for them but I didn't struggle with multiple countries and uncertainties like him. I don't want to lose my stability for now, and if I move I'll be vulnerable+baby(or not)+new language? he made it clear he wants his wife to earn, so it's not like I feel like I can 'relax' much there and settle into a new country

I don’t really get the casual ‘moving to Europe’ thing. British citizens have no automatic right to live in Europe now, and most European countries ( in spite of MN beliefs) have far more stringent immigration and employment opportunities and policies than the UK. So moving to Europe on anything other than a work related visa would be problematic . You haven’t said where the ultra desirable location is, but it would be unusual if you ( and he) did not have linguistic barriers to having a fully integrated social and working life. ( Said as someone who lived happily in Europe for fourteen years ). Unless DH had a very favourable package, you would need to consider healthcare insurance costs , especially if you became pregnant.

I can’t comment on your relationship, but in terms of the practical aspects of life, I wouldn’t envisage following someone to a foreign country in order to have a baby, and I wouldn’t think about TTC with someone who is not at least partly committed to a stable and secure citizenship.

You gave up your dream job and he is keeping his options open. I imagine if he got his dream job abroad, he'd be off without a second thought, never mind you and your (limited) options.

He has no interest in becoming a father any time soon. Even if you had 'the conversation' and he agreed to go ahead, you'd run a high risk of ending up as a single parent. Which is fine if you accept this, but not if you do not.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen he wants a stronger passport, currently he needs a lengthy visa process just to go on a work trip anywhere

He isn't British yet as he's only just applying now for indefinite leave to remain. He might be from an EU country and wants to move to another EU for this fantasy dream job. In which case he won't have a problem at all as he's still covered by free movement rules.
The OP could move with him as his wife. But if she's British, she could have a problem getting a work visa and she'll have language issues which she mentions in the OP.
Your post is very true though - he'll be fine if he's an EU citizen and can speak the language and OP will be expected to trail along behind him and it really won't be easy for her.

I don't want to give birth abroad, starting from the baby's potential citizenship, ending with just familiarity with the healthcare system, different language (english is used but not widely).. not that anyone is offering me yet. his knowledge of local language is limited but he did spend 5 years living there

You seem to be at a make or break moment.

My only advice is to do what is best for you.. not for him, not to even up any unfairnesses in your back ground you seem to perceive. His life is not yours to fix. You are supposed to be building a life together and, from your posts, he is not doing that.

So do what you need to do for you!

Assuming from the posts. ..

• They're both in the academic system (which is a very weird social scene as a pp observed!).

• Husband is from a non-European country and started a PhD/entered the academic system aiming to emigrate/use an academic job as a stepping stone to get to Europe/UK/North America/get citizenship of a new country.

(This is very common now at universities - a lot of university recruitment is based on using grad students who want to get to the UK, Europe, or the USA as "cheap labour").

• OP is British but maybe her parents emigrated from the same country as husband.

@sah89

You're British with good job prospects.

Your ex and this current husband sound like they bring nothing to your life.

Why not find the best role for YOU in the UK, stay static, save up money, maybe buy a home, and meet someone new?

There's plenty of guys who wouldn't mind meeting someone who is well-educated with a good job to start a family with.

@sah89 hi OP, I've read several messages and responses to your thread. I am an immigrant myself and so is my DH. I don't believe many immigrants have posted on here. And believe me when I say, my DH and I did not plan a baby until he got his citizenship and I was close to it as well.

From where we were to where we are at, there's no doubt that we were waiting for the right job / promotion/ in fact we booked a house together and then planned our baby which we were lucky to have it in first try. Going by your name I'm same age as you. There are some flags. But not certain they're red. All the best. X

@icanlovemebetter thank you for your perspective.. i could understand it if he said initially, but he himself concluded on the six months mark... then moved the goal post. maybe he was being truthful about citizenship and then realised and thought he'd deal with it later.
the comment above about me being naive and used stung honestly.

He doesn’t treat you well though, it is all about him i and his needs and the expectations on you are high

this is not a keeper for you

Are you prepared to wait indefinitely for a baby?
Are you prepared to be lonely with a baby in another country?

I suspect the answers are 'no.'

He's stringing you along OP.

Sorry.

You're not in an equal marriage. He is the decision maker and he expects you to do as he says.

If you have no desire to move abroad, learn a new language, birth a baby there and find a new job there, along with childcare, all in this magically foreign country that he's seeking to relocate to, then you need to sit down with him and have the conversation that your life plans and goals are not aligned.

I mean, the least he could do if he wants to uproot you abroad is give you the option of being a SAHM, but NO, he wants his wife to earn. Note, what HE wants, no discussion on your thoughts surrounding raising your children. So if you wanted to be a SAHM until your youngest started school, it doesn't look like he would support that.

This is not the man for you. He does not care about your life plans or goals. He's steaming ahead with this dream of his and isn't giving you or your marriage a second thought.

You do need to have a serious talk with him. Plan in advance what points you want to make, what you are and aren't prepared to agree to and what information you need from him. Information you are likely to need from him includes his firm plans for this dream job of his so you can see if it is realistic or simply a pipedream, how long he thinks it will be before he gets this job and whether he wants children or not (don't let him duck this question) and if so, when.

Tell him your plans for your career and your plans on having children and when you wish this to happen. Let him know how much time you realistically have to have a child in and how long you are willing to wait. Tell him how you felt when the last deadline passed and he moved the goalposts again. Tell him that if he is determined to move abroad, then he will be on his own (if that is your decision).

How he reacts will give you the information you need to plan your future. For example, if he says he wants children but not yet and won't give any firm timelines then you know he is probably future faking you and you may be better off ending it now and moving on while you have time on your side. If he agrees to 6 months before TTC and you agree to it, then you can think about what you will do if it goes past this deadline and he still won't try.

I don't blame you for not wanting a child in another country. It could make life very hard for you in the future should you split with him and find you are stuck living in a country where you have limited language skills and no family. There have been other threads on this subject and they were very sad to read.

I think you are going to have to be realistic and set yourself a deadline for when you will have move on if things haven't changed and stick to it.

I applaud you realising that moving abroad is a bad idea, take it from me, trust your instincts they're correct.

Something you need to be aware of with men like him is that he is with you because it works for him. He doesn't want to have a child right now, so he won't. But in the future, if he decides he wants one, he will. And if he decides that you are no longer suitable to provide that, either because of age, health, logistics, etc, he will go find someone else for that job.

Because his life is only about him. What he wants. When he wants it. Everything and everyone else has to fit his life or else it is of no use to him.

If you are asking g this question I believe you already know the answer. I think you are just looking for support in a decision you know you have to make.

Looks like you are both well driven and ambitious, however your wish of maternity makes you as well wanting to settle and he doesn't look like is very keen in kids
Houses can be sold and families move form country to another constantly, I am inclined to think that if he really wanted kids wouldn't be so hesitant.