Am I the starter wife? AIBU

[sah89]

Hi, I've just been feeling like something is off and need outside opinion, I don't feel I can talk to my family/dh about this..
DH and I early/mid-thirties, both similar education level and jobs, similar cultural background, I'm child of immigrants and he moved here himself 6 years ago for job. DH's very driven career-wise, I've had an 'easier' path in that respect with the education my parents have paid for... but like him I've got funded scholarships etc. I have a secure job, he's on a rolling contract looking for permanency. His visa is linked to his job.
When we first started dating he talked a lot about his aspirations to work abroad (Europe, America) as he deems it more prestigious. At the time I thought ok this guy isn't going to stick around, sort of rolled with the relationship.. then covid, then he got his contract extended here after applying also abroad and not getting anything. In the meantime I carry on working from home and finishing my thesis. Then he proposes, I'm a bit surprised but say yes, the ring is nice, not like a 'shut up ring'. We marry in the next year, the date's decided by availability of venue etc but it sort of works out with his work visa renewal and if something goes wrong he can get a spousal visa. So it's not like he was pushing to get married so he can get spouse visa. He ends up staying on the work visa. With his work contract renewed he applies for permanent positions in the UK and none abroad. He's now applying for indefinite leave to remain.

We're renting, separate bank accounts (rental agency wouldn't let us change post signing contract but I guess if he wanted to....), no real joint assets in the 3 years we've been married.... his rolling (conditional on outside funding) contract means we've been hesitant to buy a house because if we have to move to a different city in a year, it would be a nightmare.

Before marriage we had the kids convo - yes, in a bit. I didn't want to push at that time because of his job stress. About 2 years ago we had a psychotic neighbour and discussed moving, and I motivated by the fact I don't want a baby in such an environment. A couple of months later we moved to a nicer area. Then we had another baby convo about timelines, he said 'when he gets citizenship' he'd feel more stable (??) I was surprised because I'd be mid-thirties by then and even like now I'd honestly rather sooner than later... I said it can take a while to conceive still, in his circle (colleagues/parents) late thirties is ok so it must generally be ok (I think this is a bit of a skewed view). I'm not on the pill, he is verrryyy careful around my supposed ovulation time with condoms. He said how about start trying in six months? I agree. Six months pass, he's still buying condoms, a few weeks later I ask if his timeline's changed.. he said he's been busy with work and slid off the topic.
He's been applying in the UK again and another potential dream job in Europe. He asked if I'd move to Europe with him if he gets it and I said I'd not like to move because I'd lose my job and it's a different language with likelihood of getting a similar job very low. Currently we earn the same, he wouldn't want me to be SAHM. I personally would prefer if I could give birth in the UK.

Given all this, I feel a bit.... sus. Just a tad, it's like I'm a bit of a stepping stone for him? he treats me well, better than any of my exes (maybe the bar is low)... but no tangible commitments/assets, it'd be a quick exit. backtracking on the baby, this weird obsession with a particular Europe location (which I suspect is to do with his ex girlfriend who lives in a completely different place now.. but my maybe-paranoid feeling is that he's trying to prove something.. just some of the things he said).
My question to you - do I sound deluded in my relationship with what I described above? or maybe I've such low self confidence that I don't think anyone would pick me just for me. I can hardly have an open conversation about this with him, it;s not like anyone would admit yeah I'm just with you for the quicker passport and then I'm off, see ya! come along if you want, no worries if not. and if I come out with such an accusation I sound a bit mad.
Stalling on commitments isn't due to me somehow changing behaviour after we got married.

How do I protect myself? I'm saving as much as I can now, I've got money for emergencies/more rent/deposit... anything else?
go get my ovaries checked to see how much time I've got there?

We marry in the next year, the date's decided by availability of venue etc but it sort of works out with his work visa renewal and if something goes wrong he can get a spousal visa. So it's not like he was pushing to get married so he can get spouse visa. He ends up staying on the work visa. With his work contract renewed he applies for permanent positions in the UK and none abroad. He's now applying for indefinite leave to remain

You say he wasn't pushing to get married to get a spouse visa but at the same time, in the sentence before you say "sort of works out with his work visa renewal and if something goes wrong he can get a spousal visa"
He was hedging his bets there....

He's a future faker OP. I don't think you'll be having children with him any time soon.... He's hanging around promising you all sorts because it's convenient to him and once again, hedging his bets. If the dream job in Europe works out, off he will trot and you will be expected to go with him. If it doesn't work out he can stay with you a bit longer until the next "dream job" turns up - and all the time he'll be making sort of the right noises about children but also employing delaying tactics.

If you want to have children and it sounds like you really do, you should get rid of this person and find someone who actually does want to have children with you.

"Starter Wife" is a nice phrase. The entire deal sounds as if it lacks passion. Is it possible that you misread him? I suspect he is determined to go to Europe. Sooner or later he will go.
You saying 'no' will not stop him. A family will not stop him, maybe defer his decision but I think not.
What he is doing now can that be described as building experience ready for the move?

If he really won't commit to even a decent conversation about having a dc he really isn't going to have one..
Next period due date tell him you are late.. His response will be very telling imo.

I don't mean to be harsh OP but just reading your OP, it felt like he married you as a visa back up. I also agree with PP about future faking, it sounds as if he is stringing you along and the only priority he has is himself.

Thanks for the comments everyone… his job here is building him experience for a future wherever, here or abroad, definitely. The same for me, last time we had the Europe I conveyed that I also could chase another better job or reclaim the one I gave up relatively easily with an even better salary. My field has more jobs than people, his is the opposite. So if by some wild reason he didn’t grasp that I was giving things up to have a future with him, he’s been told it explicitly. However at the end of the day my sacrifices are my own, and nobody is obliged to appreciate them.

However at the end of the day my sacrifices are my own, and nobody is obliged to appreciate them

Do you want to make the ultimate sacrifice of not having children when you would like to have them because your husband delays and delays until it is too late for you to conceive?

You are right to be concerned that he’s stringing you along. It’s a common theme on MN to hear about men constantly moving the goalposts when it comes to having a baby. The timing is never right; there’s always a reason not to.

But here’s a thing, you don’t want to railroad him into a pregnancy. Never ever have a baby with a man who doesn’t want a baby with you.

He’s said a couple of times that sex during ovulation is ‘dangerous’, referring to potential pregnancy as danger…. I feel bad about that. Danger for his career sure? But waiting until I’m mid-late thirties isn’t danger for my health?
idk… I understand comparing dh to early relationships is bad but my ex relationships were more way more positive about the idea of even accidental pregnancy. Might be due to nativity but still…

yes exactly your last sentence

with the marriage and visa, I've got a colleague whose girlfriend is applying for spouse visa and they just live together.... dh could have done that, I'm sure he read up... maybe marriage easier to prove/quiicker than the cohabiting route

Why?

because it would have meant me moving, and he got rejected from that place when he applied... he would have had to settle working from home and hindering his development

You absolutely can have a candid conversation with him. Doesn’t matter if you look insane, he’s your husband not a stranger.

outline what you want and be clear and ask if he is on the same page.

it seems like both of you have no idea what the other wants.

Hi OP,

Is your DH in an academic role, like a post-doc? His obsession with status and prestige suggests he might be? And academia is a notoriously weird and transient career pathway, with the expectation that you uproot yourself and relocate multiple times for short, fixed term contracts in various prestigious lab groups. It can feel very much like chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

We're not academics, but DH and I had a period a few years ago, pre-DC, where we both needed to take the next big steps in our careers but weren't quite able to. The uncertainty and feeling of impermanence about our jobs and where we were living definitely filtered through into our relationship too. We had various disagreements about how to prioritize respective opportunities, when to apply for roles, relocation options etc.

To put a more positive spin on things, I wonder if this could be happening with you and your DH? That there are upcoming changes needed in several areas of your life (starting a family, new jobs, relocations). You are also now both older, so some choices will have significant, long-term impacts on other possible choices (relocation for a new job vs having a baby for example). It sounds like you and your DH need to have a really in depth conversation about what each of you are wanting, together and individually, from the next few years; and whether those things are mutually compatible and realistic.

I don't think it sounds like you are a "starter wife" per se, but I do think you and your DH need to have a serious, open conversation about your future plans, now that things that you may have discussed hypothetically (babies, Europe) are becoming concrete possibilities.

To me those don’t seem like insurmountable things to overcome for a dream job. But if this is the case you shouldn’t be sacrifice your dreams for his either.

Wow he's very fixated on status and 'development' isn't he? Does either of you fully appreciate that with the best will in the world, children inevitably slow that "progress" down. And on balance, most parents feel having kids is a net benefit despite that, so are happy despite this.

But I get the feeling your DH might expect your progress to take all the slowing down , and he would struggle with the extra demands that would still come his way.

He may well have kids one day, but if it isn't with someone who is happy to do all the career compromising while he does none, I'm not sure the Mum is going to have a very happy experience.

Gently, you have overcomplicated this to the point that you cannot see the real issues.

1. He wants to move abroad. You don't.

1. You want children. He does not.

These are fundamental, 'deal-breaking' differences. There's plenty more there - competing career goals, the ex-girlfriend, etc. But these two are clear, and these two are huge.

Maybe he'll want dc in 5 years or 10 - who knows. This is no good to you. You need to accept this: he does not want children. Not now. Not with you.

I'm really sorry OP. I think he's your starter husband. The one you marry before your life goals become clear, and you become strong enough to insist on them.

I don't think you're astute, I think you're naive and he is using you for his immigration status. You don't get any tangible benefit from this marriage. He is using you and it was always obvious.

To be honest, this doesn't sounds like a marriage. It just sounds like two people living with each-other. If you can't/are not making joint decisions around important things in your life, it's not a partnership. He clearly sees his job as more important than you and future children. You need to have a clear and open conversation with him - don't let him shut it down or change the subject. You need to discuss your desire to have a child and the risk of 'leaving it too late' so to speak, and you need to clarify his desire to move abroad. If he got a job and moved abroad, would he be happy to have kids then? Or is there going to be something else preventing him from moving into that space with you?

Excellent post.

OP, I really sympathise with you. I’m slightly older and trying to come to terms with the end of a longterm relationship where our goals were not aligned (incidentally they too were related to moving abroad and children!). You need to be brave and go after what you want, these are not the years to be wasting time. <curses the biological clock>

Just a thought - you say you have built up a lot of savings. Do you risk losing some of this in a divorce? Is there any way to protect this money? (Thinking ahead, if you need IVF with a new partner, you’ll need that capital.)

Maybe someone working in Family Law can advise.

Is not having kids a deal breaker?

If it is ask him directly
Do you want to have a baby with me

If yes, when do we start trying?
I love you but I don't want to resent you for stopping me having a baby, nor you resent me for having one you're not ready for.
So if by X date you still aren't ready, we need to consider if this relationship is what we both want.

I think children are not his priority. I think he imagines that getting this job in this country will go some way to 'settling the score' with his ex. He sees his ex as someone he needs to compete with. His ego took a massive hit when he didn't get into X uni, and doesn't seem to have moved beyond it.

I don't think you should move countries to stay with him and I don't think you should be trying to conceive now, or at least until you're both on the same page.

You should sit down and talk frankly about the vision you each have for the future, and try and work out whether that really is with each other. Life is short and it's very easy to lose another couple of years while you hang around waiting for 'the right time'

But he’s already future faking, so he would likely just agree to some date in the future that they can TTC then when that date comes round he’ll move the goalposts again. So OP loses another couple of years and her fertility window narrows further…

The strange thing here for me is you have clearly overlooked his career aspirations. The man is ambitious and he has made it clear from the outset he has wanted to go to this particular place in Europe.

You may well have to make the sacrifice on going to Europe - would it be a long term thing? If not is it so bad?

Time to have a Frank conversation with your husband