Page 4 | Political differences

Thistimeitwillbebettee · 2023-10-30T13:31:18+00:00

Fell out with my bf yday over the situation in Gaza. I think it’s not ok that children are being bombed, he can’t see what the alternative is although he obviously thinks it’s awful. Said that my thoughts were “left wing platitudes” but also said that he thought we fundamentally agreed on things? it’s not the first time we have clashed politically, I’m left wing and he’s more centre right. I’m concerned it’s going to become a bigger issue over time. He thinks it won’t. Tbh his views have impacted my feelings for him, he has said his love for me is unshakeable but we’ve only been together a year. For me that is the phase where you are still learning about someone. feel confused and upset.

Livelifelaughter · 31/10/2023 12:28

IdealisticCynic · 31/10/2023 12:24

I think this is true, but a bit simplistic. Most left wing people consider that there is a moral aspect/consideration to the way society should be organised. Many right wing policies are, at the very least, amoral. And dare I say it, some are downright immoral.

So I can see why fewer left wing people would find it possible to be with someone right wing, because to them it is about viewing those people as having different morals. That would feed into lots of aspects of a shared life.

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I am left wing and my husband is not. But on core fundamentals we agree (and he doesn’t tend to support wholly immoral policies!)

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I think this exemplifies my point that some left thinkers feel they are on some moral high ground.

IdealisticCynic · 31/10/2023 12:38

Livelifelaughter · 31/10/2023 12:28

I think this exemplifies my point that some left thinkers feel they are on some moral high ground.

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Imagine thinking of yourself as being open minded and then saying this without any attempt to engage with the general point made?

AntonFeckoff · 31/10/2023 12:58

I used to consider myself firmly left-wing, but it’s attitudes like the ones highlighted in this thread that have turned me more into a centrist over the past couple of years. A friend has gone the opposite way - she’s now in the alt-left camp and our friendship has suffered a lot because I’ve become increasingly frustrated at being questioned accusingly and made to feel like a bad person for not agreeing with everything she says. I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve asked if we can agree to disagree and not discuss it further.

That Instagram post is a great example. It’s suggesting that if you acknowledge any of the complexities of this war or hold any other opinion than ‘ceasefire now’ then you’re a bad person, there’s something morally wrong with you.

LemonTT · 31/10/2023 13:08

The point of the argument was whether war is justified. Anti war sentiment isn’t the preserve of the left. It runs the gamut of politics. Plenty of people on the right are anti war. It is just as true that pro war and conflict sentiment runs through all political persuasions, see second world war

Is war a necessary evil? For many people it is. It’s hard to be the smarty pants who calls the correct answer on when that applies.

RantyAnty · 31/10/2023 13:52

If he's conservative like that he'll probably be that way in other areas as he's the center of the relationship and you're the helper for his life.

Your thoughts are less than his. That's why he called your views platitudes, but his are complex serious big manly thoughts.

Most men won't care as long as he's getting regular sex and you're facilitating his life for him .

TempestTost · 31/10/2023 17:56

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 31/10/2023 10:16

There's also research that suggests that people on the left care about fewer things, and that is why there is a divide. They simply don't recognize certain things that conservatives do, so they don't recognize a need to balance them.

Lol. Can you link to this research, please @TempestTost?

Sure, it's really interesting.

Here is a paper on the topic:

https://fbaum.unc.edu/teaching/articles/JPSP-2009-Moral-Foundations.pdf

What they are saying is that research shows that human beings beings rest their moral reasoning on five possible foundational values:

Care
Fairness
Loyalty
Respect
Sanctity

Conservatives and political progressives both recognize the first two and think they are real moral issues, though they don't weight them the same way.

But typically liberal progressive don't recognize the other three values, whereas conservatives do.

What that can mean is that a conservative person will be looking at other factors, and trying to balance them all out, whereas typically a liberal progressive won't see that as a valid moral process.

https://fbaum.unc.edu/teaching/articles/JPSP-2009-Moral-Foundations.pdf

TempestTost · 31/10/2023 18:09

LemonTT · 31/10/2023 13:08

The point of the argument was whether war is justified. Anti war sentiment isn’t the preserve of the left. It runs the gamut of politics. Plenty of people on the right are anti war. It is just as true that pro war and conflict sentiment runs through all political persuasions, see second world war

Is war a necessary evil? For many people it is. It’s hard to be the smarty pants who calls the correct answer on when that applies.

I mean, is there anyone who isn't a power hungry psychopath in any part of the west who thinks war is great?

If we are going to be anti-war, and say that a ceasefire is the only "correct" answer, who are we telling that to in these kind of conflicts?

I think even those who have serious reservations about Israel would say that they have had a hugely aggressive act, probably designed to force their hand, perpetrated against them here. Very naive people may think that it is possible to bomb built up areas without killing civilians - well, it isn't. You can try, but it is only going to get you so far. They can't do nothing. So what should they do?

So then are these "ceasefire" people saying that the Palestinians should just back off, and accept what Israel has dictated for them over the years? You could certainly argue there is no justification for this kind of attack - but that seems to be the opposite of what most of the left is saying!

The idea that somehow the Middle East can be resolved with just a bit of being nice, and you can have a war without killing civilians, is crackerpots. It really is just platitudes. It would be great if people operated that way, but they don't, and it won't happen.

SweetcornFritter · 31/10/2023 20:46

AntonFeckoff · 31/10/2023 12:58

I used to consider myself firmly left-wing, but it’s attitudes like the ones highlighted in this thread that have turned me more into a centrist over the past couple of years. A friend has gone the opposite way - she’s now in the alt-left camp and our friendship has suffered a lot because I’ve become increasingly frustrated at being questioned accusingly and made to feel like a bad person for not agreeing with everything she says. I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve asked if we can agree to disagree and not discuss it further.

That Instagram post is a great example. It’s suggesting that if you acknowledge any of the complexities of this war or hold any other opinion than ‘ceasefire now’ then you’re a bad person, there’s something morally wrong with you.

Nail on head!