Political differences

[Thistimeitwillbebettee]

Fell out with my bf yday over the situation in Gaza. I think it’s not ok that children are being bombed, he can’t see what the alternative is although he obviously thinks it’s awful. Said that my thoughts were “left wing platitudes” but also said that he thought we fundamentally agreed on things?

it’s not the first time we have clashed politically, I’m left wing and he’s more centre right. I’m concerned it’s going to become a bigger issue over time. He thinks it won’t. Tbh his views have impacted my feelings for him, he has said his love for me is unshakeable but we’ve only been together a year. For me that is the phase where you are still learning about someone.

feel confused and upset.

I think it’s not ok that children are being bombed
You are not unique in that, most functioning human beings would agree. 😉

Said that my thoughts were “left wing platitudes”
Your post is indeed dripping with platitudes. I don't think your platitudes are necessarily left wing, they're just platitudes.

Your BF sounds brilliant and will make an excellent partner. It doesn't sound like you are well matched though. I personally would find it unbearable to be in a relationship with someone who can't think about the bigger picture, context, history and who was just taking a cookie cutter approach to life, to me it seems limited.

I hope he will find a partner who loves him as he is. And I hope that you will be able to grow beyond platitudes.

I think I saw some research recently that showed fairly clearly that people on the left are unwilling to have relationships or friendships with people on the right much more than the other way round.

In a way OP I think your problem here is a good example of why that is.

You and your bf both think that war and violence are bad, and children being killed is horrible.

He thinks, realistically, it is impossible to have a war without that kind of thing happening. That's the reality we have to work with, whatever we feel about it.

You think that's some kind of sign that he is morally compromised, rather than a statement about how reality works.

My question would be, do you think, realistically, it is possible to have wars without innocent people like children being killed and impacted? Maybe you do, and your bf likely thinks that's very nice, but simply not a possible reality. So he doesn't think it makes you morally evil, only a bit unrealistic about war.

@LovePaleGreen Your BF sounds brilliant and will make an excellent partner.

You can't possibly know that from what the OP has told us.

I think there's nothing wrong with being honest about how important politics is to an individual.

I think I saw some research recently that showed fairly clearly that people on the left are unwilling to have relationships or friendships with people on the right much more than the other way round This is explained, from what I read, as being because if you are very concerned about social justice, you can't just ignore those who don't care about these issues. Whereas if you're not so bothered, the fact someone is more bothered is not so troubling.

Centrists are certainly more patronising than those on either side, if posts like this are anything to go by.

I can understand why you feel that way. People are dismissing your feelings because they think it's about far away politics, and some are getting defensive for other reasons. You are concerned about what this signifies about the both of you, your personalities, approaches to difficult topics and that's particularity important for women as there is a real risk factor involved with settling with the wrong man.

Men are more likely to prioritise sex sexual attraction so as long as that's taken care of, they can afford to not analyse their girlfriend's opinions so much, and have a live & let live attitude. Also some of them may not care much because they simply don't invest must value in women's opinion. They think women are incapable of thinking logically and of course correctly like them, so if you say something they don't agree with, inwardly they may be fondly patting your head at your silly wrongness. That's not necessary you partner here, but be mindful of it in future.

True. But he has said his love for her is unshakeable. Hers isn't. That doesn't bode well. I actually do think that its really important to be on the same wavelength in terms of political views, especially in this climate, where views are getting more polarised.

If he’s ‘centre right’ he’s by definition not extreme in his views. I personally would have no issue with this snd would enjoy discussions about things we might disagree on. However, if you see someone’s political views as inherently linked to their moral fabric and believe right wing people are less ‘good’ than Left wing people, I guess you might struggle.

Just because someone's love for you is unshakable doesn't make them brilliant or an excellent partner.

I disagree; or at least, I disagree that a person's moral character can be separated from their politics.

Any man can be chivalrous to a woman he fancies. Having a partner who treats me well is a basic expectation. It's not a reflection of his moral values though. Buying your wife flowers means nothing if you're thoughtless about injustice or treat other people with contempt.

My political values aren't like preferring lemon cake over chocolate cake - they're how I try to live. Peace, equality and justice aren't "let's agree to disagree" topics for me - they're things I actively fight to see in the world. I don't fancy having that fight at home as well, so my partner needs to be on the same page as me.

At the very least, both partners need to respect each other's positions. Any man sneering about "leftwing platitudes" at me would be out on his ear so fast.

Yes, people on the left often believe those with different opinions don't care about social justice, the problem is that is generally false. They've simply defined caring about social justice as sharing their own views on everything.

Most people on the right tend to think that normal people on the left do care about social justice, and see their different views as coming out of differences in what they think the issues that need to be balanced are, or the causes of injustice, or the best way to deal with them. None of which makes them immoral as such.

On politics I think it would depend on the issue.

Some issues are moral issues to me, not politics. For example, it wouldn't bother me being in a relationship with someone who had different views on immigration policy. I could not be in a romantic relationship with anyone who thinks the RNLI should leave people to drown to teach them a lesson. We'd be incompatible on a moral level.

And that's exactly the point that earlier posters were making. Left wing people are more likely to take politics as superior personal morals and therefore not tolerate anyone who feels differently. Right wingers are more likely to see it as how the world works and pragmatic reality rather than a mark of character, so they won't generally be so insistent that everyone around them be the same.

I'm more sympathetic to your view as I lean left myself, but I think there have been some insightful points made about how and why lefties are less tolerant of different viewpoints.

I also agree with PP that OP's platitudes aren't left wing, they're just platitudes.

I tend to think that the 'far?' right attitude to the left often tends to be along the lines of 'You should become more open minded about becoming close-minded'.

Why can’t he have different views to you? You sound a bit like the thought police.

I have identical twin brothers who vote differently. I don’t vote at all.

the whole point is that everyone can have their view.

I think @MrsBennetsPoorNerves is spot on. Left-wing people tend to see politics as a moral issue rather than a practical choice, so they care more. Conversely, the right-wing person who would happily date a charming and attractive left-wing person might find themselves a lot less comfortable if that person chose to work in a low-pay, low-status job when they were capable of a well-paid career, because the work is useful to society, they aren't that fussed about money and it gives them a decent work life balance. To that person, it's a pragmatic lifestyle choice, but their partner might see it as laziness, unwillingness to work and not being prepared pull their weight in the relationship and a bad example to set to any future children. The person whose moral values require a particular behaviour is unlikely to be comfortable with someone who doesn't share those core moral values.

Why have people mentioned at least twice that left leaners are more concerned about their personal values and social as if those that lean right don't have the same care for their own values and don't care about others, just pragmatics? What a strange view

I am not sure why you would think that about people who are right wing? Lots of right wing people work in lower paid jobs, including by choice. Or live in poorer areas.

IMO posters are muddling different relationships
People would probably identify me as left wing. I am fully capable of positive respectful relationships with those who think differently- colleagues, neighbours, family members, more distant friends. I don't think that someone who disagrees with me is stupid, callous, or morally inferior. I would only judge someone who (normal levels of education and lacking major life challenges granted) doesn't care about anything beyond themselves and their immediate family.
But, I wouldn't have a really close relationship with someone whose politics was very different to mine, and it would be like not having a similar moral compass.
For example someone who denied climate change. Someone who was racist. Someone who believed women should not be able to control their own fertility. Whatever 'logic' someone had to defend those positions, I don't need them in my life.

I married a Tory. I’m a lefty. Trust me @BiscuitsandPuffin he did not tolerate my views at all. I learned to keep my mouth shut.

I divorced him and I won’t ever keep my views to myself to placate a man ever again.

I think those on the right are just as likely to shout down those with differing political views as those on the left.

Well I have to say that I can’t tolerate lefties. May be because they destroyed my country of birth. Now the same people have moved to other countries with the same BS ideology. May be because most of the ones I have met are freeloaders hippies who do not like paying their way and avoid paying taxes as much as they can but like to benefit from welfare and call for more taxes for high earners. So I would not believe in having a relationship with such person . I would rather be single all my life as I would certainly be miserable. I am not right wing btw.
In your case OP I would end the relationship asap as you are clearly affected by this and it would never changed. You will avoid a lot of stress and misery if you do it now.

It’s difficult to say from your example OP how different your political views are.
As @PumpkinsAndCoconuts noticed you both are against human suffering. However I do agree that political views are important in relationship. I personally wouldn’t be able to be with someone who doesn’t share my values and beliefs.
DH and I are together for nearly 30 years, we see a lot of things differently, we disagree about some sides of the issues but never fundamentally.

From my experience of life having the same political and religious views are very important.
I agree 100% with the poster who said it is not comparable to which cake you prefer.
Both dh and I share the same political beliefs and religious beliefs. Before we even met we were voting the same way.
I think having the same fundamental beliefs will help to strengthen your relationship.
The same is true of deep, meaningful friendships.
That’s not to say people with opposing views can’t get on. However can they spend the rest of their lives together in blissful happiness? Doubtful.

I think it comes down to a utopian vs non-utopian view. The right have strong values, but they position them differently.

People on the right tend to see social problems, including justice issues, as being complex, often with no perfect solution, and involving pros and cons in terms of solutions.

It's like Thomas Sowell said, there are no solutions, only trade-offs. That might be a little strong, occasionally there might be a simple achievable solution, but the fact is that's rare. So for a conservative, the political process typically means figuring out what is possible in the scenario you have, and weighing the pros and cons, and coming up with a pragmatic approach that will work, or at least help, without causing too many problems of its own.

People on the left tend to think there is a possibility that there can be some kind of final just society, that if only we enact the right policies, you will have the outcomes you want, they often think it is social policy rather than human nature (or physical nature) that is the cause of the problems, and if you have the right "true"policy there won't be trade-offs.

(And I know that sounds crazy on the face of it, but when you look at a lot of the policy things many people on the left (not centrists typically) talk about, that is the approach. Like the OP - bombing kids is bad, but can't seem to address the facts of war where it's pretty much inevitable, even if people try not to do it.)

I think the other things that comes into it is that people on the left tend to recognize only a few moral axes, mainly fairness/unfairness. Whereas conservatives typically recognize a few more, and weigh them differently. So the people on the left don't think some of the moral considerations of conservatives are "real" they interpret them as some kind of selfishness.