Can someone with knowledge of narcissist abuse help me on this?

[Ifyousayso1]

My ex was a narcissist. He is/was unable to accept blame, gaslighted and twisted and became violent and aggressive. He put me down all the time. He used to say things like you think you’re so clever, better then me etc etc.

Anyway I was just thinking about the times that were good. Are those good times real? I know his view of things is not logical but when he was nasty he hated me but when he was not he was nice. If you questioned him he changed. Was he capable of love?

My children also manage my ex as a child, in fact many of his friends, colleagues and family babify him, it's amazing how their acting skills get them what they want.

I know he laughs at their stupidity, privately of course.

@CheekyHobson how do you deal with them when they keep telling their truths to the children? Obviously all the their truths include lies and they are the hero, did nothing wrong, all mummies fault, etc etc. My daughter is having some support at school as she is struggling after coming back from his visits. It feels like he is destabilising her life. She was with me for years no contact with him, during that time I didn’t talk badly about him.

Both my ex husband and father are true naraccists.

they play a game and when you enforce boundaries they will change their behaviour to reel you back - almost like they know they have gone too far and so DARVO comes out.

my ex once said after we were married and had a child in a rare moment when he was being reflective he said ‘I knew you were lovely. I was sad and lonely before and you made us a family. I tried but I couldn’t keep up the mask - I just couldn’t I tried and acted a part but it’s not me - I’m selfish’ part of this was me to pity him but part was rare clarity from him that he couldn’t be nice and charming all the time and certainly couldn’t keep it up.

My father had no such reflection he is a true narc and a former MP who had retired. He’s vile and abusive. He truly thinks he is the most intelligent god given man to have ever walked the earth. He doesn’t just feel he is the cleverest person on the planet he KNOWS it.
he has no friends currently 85 and he is no contact with me and his grandchildren and he os truly vile.

He buys people with money but when I walked away and put boundaries in place he cut me off - verbally and emotionally and has refused to speak to me for 3 years. My daughter was the apple of his eye and at 12 she stood up to him and starting saying no, she didn’t want his money and didn’t want him controlling what she did etc and again he cut her off. The hardest thing for him is us turning around and refusing to accept 500 K for a house that he would control and he couldn’t cope. His response is to cut us off and when we said we just wanted a normal emotional relationship and to meet him for a coffee with my mother etc without him telling us my house 11 am in the study and us saying no Costa os fine his response os vile.

For 40 years plus I yearned for his affection and love and when he turns it on it’s like being dazzled with a laser beam and then they turn it off and you want it back on again etc

took years of therapy to think - nope! I’m done.

I keep thinking "I'm done". 3 therapists have helped me get to that point dealing with my mother who is a covert martyr victim narcissist. The longing for them to have an epiphany and understand that they hurt you never goes away. My inner child will wait forever for her mother to see her it seems. Therapy has convinced my rational adult self to give up hoping but yet, still, Iittle ragamuffin has hope. :-/

@OuiRagamuffin

I think many of us can identify with that feeling.

@Peacendkindness That sounds dreadful, a lifetime of dealing with narcs, not even a childhood free from it. Money and power probably links it, my h was obsessed with power and buying people, yet he presented as very meek, he would get others to do his dirty work and also loved to devide and conquer his employees, pitching them against one another, he said he got the most out of them that way.

They love to use.

@Ifyousayso1 My children were much older, visitation not part of the equasion but obviously the untruths were still told.
The only thing I could do was ignor, but if it's affecting your child and she's unhappy you could do with professional support for yourself on how to deal with this.

From my experience with my ex (narcissistic, a cheater, emotionally but not physically abusive), I think a narcissist can love, but their concept of love is fundamentally very different to ours. Narcissists are users and they offer a very selfish, stunted love that is conditional on their needs being met. In their mind they are always the main character and their partner is just a bit part player there to serve them.

As for whether the good times were real ... well my ex could say the most wonderful, loving things, and I think he really did mean them 'in the moment', in the sense that his need in that moment was to play the role of loving partner. But it counted for nothing the next day, because the need had been met and the moment had passed. There was no depth or permanence to any of it. It was all just meaningless words and gestures that got his needs met, with one eye looking over my shoulder for the shiny new sources of supply.

Well, I don’t really believe in the concept of multiple “truths”. People are entitled to their own feelings, and their own interpretations of events and their own opinions but they’re not entitled to their own facts. I don’t think children are well-served by adults giving them the impression that all “truths” are equal and that lies should be fobbed off as “that’s the way that person sees things”.

It depends to a degree what your ex is telling your daughter, but I would be clear about calling out false statements he’s making and offering alternative interpretations of events. It’s not your job to ensure your daughter maintains an unsullied and uncomplicated positve regard for her father when he is behaving in toxic ways. That’s actually damaging to her understanding of reality and her own sense of self.

Of course you don’t want to be vindictive or bitter when talking to her. That’s why having some degree of understanding of and empathy for the manipulative strategies he uses is helpful.

If you give examples of what he is saying I might be able to make suggestions of responses.

Others but yours, I meant.

Hey forget your ex ,especially if a narcissist,narcissist have no depth to them,its all me me me,put yourself first have a night out with a freind or family member,if your not into social events,join a few clubs with your hobbys,and u will meet the right guy,more importantly look in the mirror every day and tell yourself how beautiful u are ,it will only be a matter of time before u meet the right guy. Forget Mr Narcissist .😎

@CheekyHobson he has talked about everything to her. For example the other week he told how how he paid for the car I have and the house. I dont Know how it needed to come up in conversation. The house was my family’s, we got it half price and the rest a mortgage. It went to court as he pushed me out literally and wouldn’t move. He was made to leave by a judge. The car yes he physically handed over the money but he didn’t earn it alone. I did all the house and garden, admin all the child care and worked part time. Also having a small mortgage from family helping with house enabled this. It’s supposed to be a teamwork. We had 2 cars and the judge awarded one each.

Just one of so many examples. He told her about my engagement ring and how he got it from me so he can give to her one day. What he actually did was shout at me and tell me if I didn’t hand it back he would come over and rip it off. It’s like he’s trying to get a certain narrative across to her. He constantly tells her how cruel I was to deny contact and how he fought the courts, not true, a judge denied contact as they were worried that he lacked any insight into his behaviour.

He hasnt changed. The courts sent him on courses so he could learn insight but it’s very clearly done nothing. He is incapable of taking any accountability as that would make him look bad and he simply can’t. Instead of just leaving it in the past and saying he did bad things and he has changed he is very clearly deliberately twisting the truth. Why does she need to know who paid for a car she is 7!

I have found with mine they treat one of our children like an adult and always have done. Puts way too much pressure on, discusses things that they shouldn't even have to worry about or even understand.

@Catsafterme I think they kind of rely on them not understanding. Mine told her how cruel mummy is from stopping him giving her toys. She came home telling me I am cruel. What he left out was a judge told him to stay away from where I was and that he stood outside my mums door shouting and kicking it to get in with us all inside. All she knows is mummy stopped me getting toys and she loves toys as she’s so small.

Yes, easily manipulated mine has done it for years in varying ways planting seeds. What I have found also once they get to the age where they are more clued up and start to have an opinion of their own they start treating them worse.

@Catsafterme I can only imagine. It must feel awful. I mean you want them to see their dad for who they are but the feeling of being discarded is awful for them I’m sure.

In my case I am the dad and for the last decade I've desperately tried to give them a childhood but everything was destroyed over and over. Mine haven't had birthdays, Christmas or any event with others or family as all been blocked and eventually cut off entirely.

Eventually I was discarded and because I didn't play the role I was supposed to, which was to walk away from the children and forget, she took everything by force. All our money, the house and the children. I haven't been allowed to speak or see them in six months, neither has the family on both sides. Fully isolated in the middle of nowhere being poisoned no doubt.

@Catsafterme sorry shouldn’t have assumed I was talking to a women. I work with a lady who is extremely narcissistic. We were friends for years and she kind of was like a mum figure to me. I disagreed with a really insignificant comment of hers one day and she never spoke a word to me in years now. Her own daughter is in mental health inpatient care so I can only assume what kind of mum she is to her. No dad around but unsure who’s idea that was. They come in both sexes and equally bloody awful. Your ex sounds toxic. I’m desperate for our daughter to just go between homes and be happy and we not really speak about our relationship.

I have been through this recently.

A relationship with a narcissist is basically constant coercive control. The good times were likely only when it was something your other half wanted to do.

I'm glad it's being talked about more frequently now but a huge amount more needs to be done to educate.

I've reported mine to the police but couldn't follow through with giving a statement. At least it is on file for the next victim to add to.

@Ifyousayso1 It's all good, more likely to be a woman posting to be fair.

Yes very much like that, don't agree or obey you are lower than scum, stupid and you are cut off completely. That's now every long term friendship cut off, own family and mine and now me. Moved onto new friends who don't know her well or spend long time with.

It will come with age, how old now? My eldest has own opinions but can't say what thinks as scared of reaction but now I don't know as been so long likely turned against me by now unless playing along.

This has been a great thread with many enlightening contributions.

How did she get away with that? There's been another man on here with a similar story. Why does the mother come up trumps?

The only thing she has got away with is destroying the relationship with me and the children. Nobody has ordered this, made the decision herself to block both sides of the family and then me. Court soon that should be interesting...

Older children get more say in court. My ex constantly talking about the court order to our daughter. Telling her its not fair, when she is older she can live with him. He tells her how he finds living without her so hard and cries all the time. She comes home in tears worried about her dad. She tells me she can live with him more when she is older like daddy says as he is sad without her. The whole thing is just ridiculous. I try and distract the conversation. Then a day or so later she will come to me upset and say I will miss living with you mummy. God I hate that man.

@Ifyousayso1 this is so sad, he’s emotionally manipulating his own daughter! She shouldn’t have to be put in that situation but shows just how much he ‘cares’ for his daughter. This is what I worry about with my son! He’s only 2 but I really do t want him mentally and emotionally damaged by his father!

@Catsafterme i hope all works out for you in court! There are decent fathers out there that care about their children and some nasty and bitter women!

My daughter was the same. Until she saw through him at about 13/14. Now (18) has v little to do with him.

So take heart! I know it's so worrying though.