Can someone with knowledge of narcissist abuse help me on this?

[Ifyousayso1]

My ex was a narcissist. He is/was unable to accept blame, gaslighted and twisted and became violent and aggressive. He put me down all the time. He used to say things like you think you’re so clever, better then me etc etc.

Anyway I was just thinking about the times that were good. Are those good times real? I know his view of things is not logical but when he was nasty he hated me but when he was not he was nice. If you questioned him he changed. Was he capable of love?

Thank you @CheekyHobson, a compliment as I've read some of your excellent posts on here about narcs, you know your stuff unfortunately.

And you are absolutely right about many of them having child like qualities, they don't necessarily have to be the loud mouth confident bore, sometimes they are sickly sweet and adorable, so many different types, but the tantrums, and need for everthing to be their way or choice seems to be universal, the rage aswell, is like no other, it's the fastest type of rage I've seen, 0 to a 100000 in seconds, it's like a switch with a full force of power, there is no sub station to limit it.

2 questions, OP

1, What does 'real' mean? Love is different for all of us.

2, Why are you still trying to work out how his mind works? Your future happiness rests on leaving him behind, not figuring him out.

Respectfully @Watchkeys

I think understanding the nature of the beast can help you for future survival, just ignoring a situation you have been through does not prevent it happening again, there are many out there like this, knowledge often helps us survive and be aware of the dangers, for op, and for those just reading and passing through.

This

Respectfully @LaughingPines

When I was in OP's situation, realising that I didn't have to figure out my abuser's mind was what released me. Understanding the nature of the beast is not necessary for your future protection. Understanding that if a relationship starts to feel shitty, you leave, regardless of the nature of the beast, is necessary.

We will never understand why narcissists think the way they do, because we're not narcissists. It's like trying to understand how an animal thinks, or why a tree grows. But nobody is subject to an unhealthy relationship unless they stay, and OP is still staying with her abuser in her mind, for all the time she spends trying to work him out.

Your hours, days, and months can be used more wisely, @Ifyousayso1 .

I think it's real in the moment, you were happy, they were happy. But you weren't giving them any challenging feedback in a moment that you were both happy. You were reflecting back their rosy view of themselves. My x is like this. My mother is like this.

So to me, the happy moments were real but the relationship wasn't real because reciprocal honest communication was never really possible. They loved you when you reflected back their view of themself but when you challenge their ego, well then they protect their ego. No self reflection, ever, it's terrifying for them.

@Watchkeys I’m trying to understand as we share a daughter and she spends every other weekend with him. He is filling her head with lies about me and about our relationship. Their baby fell off he bed and he shouted at my daughter as he believes she should have been watching the baby, she was asleep in her bed. I’m trying to explain that daddy unfortunately can’t take responsibility for the things he does wrong. He tells her lies about me and I try and tell her hat daddy remembers differently. Our actions have consequences. If I never had to see him again I would let it go but I need to understand to try and protect her.

You don't need to understand him. You need to accept that he is not understandable, and deal with your daughter from that basis. He's not going to 'make sense' to you, ever. Different species.

Isn't being a narcissist exhausting?

I dont think covert narcs are consciously training you. I think they so very genuinely believe that their is one perspective, theirs of course, that they don't feel in any way manipulative for shaming you in to feeling their feelings instead of their own.

I have more experience of covert victim narcs. My mother is the victim of me, always, and as is a common story 😔 my x was exactly the same. His feelings were real, and paramount. Mine were outrageous.

Very interesting thread OP.

lots of interesting insights. For me, it’s been difficult for me to accept that I could’ve been fooled. But in the long run, it’s healthier to see that it wasn’t love.

It’s important not to be too hard on yourself though- they are experts at playing a part.

I do look at my ex and see him with his new gf and wonder how he does it. She’s completely loved up and thinks I’m the psycho ex. She has even been present where we’ve been discussing access arrangements with the kids, yet still thinks it’s me and not him.

he behaved in a completely batshit way, and I was calm and reasonable. She started making excuses about how it’s because he’s so anxious because he loves his kids so much 🙄 they’ve been together a few years now.

Does anyone think it’s possible that she’ll never find out he’s a total narc? I keeping waiting for him to be found out, but it never happens. It makes me doubt myself so much…is it me who is the nutcase?

@Watchkeys

I suppose we're all different, I know that for me it helped me overcome the effects of my trauma, understanding what type of person he was.

I was able understand that there never was a human with real feelings inside of him, this made me view him as inccapable of understanding the hurt he creates.

I was able to view him as an inanimate object that has the ability of mobility, it helped, to just walk away and not think would have been impossible, yes it's the best thing to do, but I don't think any person really does that, for to be able to walk away without questions, pain, hurt and remorse would make you as unfeeling as the narcissist themselves.

We arn't robots, but to understand that we may have lived with one, can help us move forward.

It's not just about abuse, it's the mixture of kindness, fake realities, gaslighting and trying to put to rest the confusion that is the hallmark of sharing your life with one.
Don't minimise how hard it is to escape, overcome and survive knowing one on a personal basis.

Oh @Catastrophejane that’s me now. He is with a new partner. She was with him the whole time a judge denied him contact for years. She supported him. The judge asked him to send cards to our daughter, she made them. He must have twisted something outstanding or she must be mad. They now have a baby. It really does make you wonder whether you are just mad yourself. I am happy with my history now though and don’t doubt what I went through.

They are absolutely brilliant at remaining blame free. It’s outstanding how they get away with it and find new supplies. I’m just deeply sad our daughter is part of the supply, making him look like a normal living father.

I used to wonder how he could just move on after what he did to me. I’m chronically unwell physically now. He still maintains he did absolutely nothing wrong.

I am happy with my history now though and don’t doubt what I went through.

The most poignant sentence I've ever read about survival after a narcisssist.

Our daughter says she manages him better then me and tells him when he needs to calm down. Sounds very much like she is mothering a child. It’s not her job to keep his shame at bay. She is also 14 years younger so young it’s seems. I on the other hand was terrified of his outbursts and he punished me a lot more then he seems to be her. But then I was terrible at managing him.

Sadly it isn't real, it's manipulation.

@LaughingPines Im not happy I went through it but I don’t doubt anymore it was his fault entirely. I didn’t deserve it and it was really shit.

I understand, you're life is real now.

@LaughingPines

Don't minimise how hard it is to escape, overcome and survive knowing one on a personal basis

I wouldn't, having been in that position myself. You're not the one with all the answers, you know. Other opinions are available.

This is very interesting- and your experience really resonates with me. My ex is also with a much younger woman (15 years) who is mothering him.

I think it’s less that you were terrible at managing him and more like better at realising when your boundaries were being crossed. You wanted an equal relationship- that’s where you went wrong.

she’s younger so easier to manipulate. I often think they’re cleverer second time round too. But they’re still not in a genuine relationship. That’s the only solace I get.

I, for one, couldn’t live like that. Who wants to baby a man-child?

@LaughingPines yes it’s real. It’s great and it’s hard and happy and sad. I’ve a great partner who is supportive and also a pain in the arse lol and a baby who doesn’t sleep ever and an almost 8 year old who sadly has to learn some really hard lessons in life. I’m hoping it will work out. But she has a mum who is trying to teach her now instead of the wreck I used to be. It’s made me a stronger person.

Other opinions are available.

Exactly.

@Catastrophejane you are probably right. I often wonder where my children’s confidence and sass comes from and I think perhaps it’s from me. He did try and squash me but I just wouldn’t quite do as I was told. I just didn’t want to. She is probably much softer then I was. I remember when I left him and I got to a point where I was sick of feeling scared so took him to court over the finances so I could protect me and my daughter. He used to send me messages saying I never thought you would be like this. He also thought I would back down like I always did but I reached a point where I wouldn’t anymore. He made me weak when I wasn’t.

I also could not live with some I had to manage.

@LaughingPines

i think similarly. Having an intellectual understanding of and ability to recognise the traits and patterns of narcissism has helped me a great deal in healing and also in dealing with my narcissistic ex as we have children together and for my own sake I need practical strategies that reduce conflict and improve the chances of productive progress. I’ve found these strategies help in professional situations too.

Listening to yourself, be aware of your own discomfort, having clear values and boundaries are all critical skills too but it’s often necessary to have to find ways to work with narcissists and even empathize with them to a degree.