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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being paranoid or should I be worried?

96 replies

floops · 05/03/2008 21:38

I need your opinion on a situation that I feel is developing but may be totally wrong and misjudging unreasonably.
My husband works in an environment where a lot of affairs seem to have evolved amongst staff. Some of which have led to marriage break ups others are still ongoing and have been for many years despite both parties having spouses and children. My husband appointed a new assistant 1 1/2 years ago. They obviously work closely together. From time to time the whole team goes abroad on conferences together. Last October they all returned from one such trip. Since then I have found my husband blowing his assistant's trumpet to many of our friends who are in the same field as he is. Saying how good she is at her work, the extra courses she has taken how she needs to develop further etc. Until one day I finally gave him a look across the room when I realised he was at it again and thought hang on a minute you are surely not talking about her again. On his return from the october trip he wanted to partake in a certain sexual activity that he has not ever really liked or wanted to do before. I know there may not be any connection. At xmas he asked her what she wanted for a present. She said she did not mind. He told her to put a list together and she did. It was quite a long list of personal items such as perfume, face products, make up etc. None of which are cheap. I felt a bit funny about this because if one of my bosses said make a list I certainly would not be putting items that cost £80 on it. But maybe that is just me. Anyway he bought her the whole list and had it all gift wrapped at John Lewis. He told me he had bought the whole list but I had not seen the list at this point. It totalled £239 he later told me that he could not get everything on the list. So it would have cost more. He does not know that I know how much he spent but he does know I saw the list after xmas. I must add that my husband is a lovely bloke who is both generous and kind and generally looks after everyone and takes them under his wing etc. He spent the same amount of money on another assistant but she put it towards her scooter she was buying. This did not perturb me at all. On xmas morning I was given a box of perfume that I don't really wear anymore. I used to wear it as few years ago. He did say that he wasn't going to get me anything but just as he was leaving John Lewis saw this perfume and got it for me. It cost £60. I should add that we have a good marriage, just had child no. 4 last may and have a good sex life.

Since xmas this assistant texts him even at weekends about personal stuff. She is currently divorcing her husband and out every weekend with her friend looking for a new man. My husband has told me about a few she has sent. I have even checked his phone since. I would never do anything like this so my behaviour has been affected by this worrying. She texted him once when he was working away from home at 11.34pm on a friday night to say she had had a bad night. I was on the phone talking to my husband at that time. He then said I better go and get some sleep we said goodnight. When he came home the next night he said he had not managed to go tos leep until 2am. When I asked why he said because of his cold. I have wondered if he got off the phone from me and phoned her back. This I will never know.

Anyway I personally feel that their relationship is not very professional in terms of they talk a lot together about personal stuff, she texts him about personal stuff. I'm worried that she sees more in it than there is. He knows I think she texts him too much and that I'm worried. He obviously states I never have to worry about anything like that. But I feel that they are almost having an emotional affair without the sex! Does that make sense? Do you think she is being innappropriate? I don't think my husband sees anything inappropriate in their relationship with one another.

Am I being selfish and should just be grateful for having such a loving husband and four lovely children etc?

OP posts:
gonaenodaethat · 06/03/2008 10:26

I don't think you should warn her off. If she goes running to your husband it could backfire.

I would show no weakness.

I don't think it would do any harm to let her know that your husband discusses her problems with you. As in 'DH tells me you're having a bit of trouble, hope it gets better soon.' Thereby reinforcing that you and he are a team and share the info.
I don't think the presents are much to worry about. He did give the same amount to another colleague and I think it's the done thing these days to spend a lot on assistants.

You could just chin her in the toilets of course.

gonaenodaethat · 06/03/2008 10:31

Some people also send out blanket texts to lots of people if the've had news or a good/bad night, hoping that one or two people will reply.
You can usually tell by the wording if it's only for one individual.

stirlingmum · 06/03/2008 10:39

I have also had first hand experience of a situation like this.
Dh would talk about this woman at work. How they would have a laugh. How pretty she was. How well they got on. How she was struggling with her marriage, and later her separation. Then he stopped talking about her. That is the time to really worry!
It went from an emotional affair to a full on sexual affair. We are now trying to deal with the aftermath and I think it will be a long hard slog.

If I could go back in time I wish that I had made contact with her and let her know that I was aware of her problems and aware of her relationship with dh. Maybe just to warn her off. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!!

You have had some great advice on other posts. Only you can judge your situation and know how to proceed now.

Good Luck x

littlewoman · 06/03/2008 10:42

My xh was actually having joint wanking sessions without thinking he was having an affair with his ow. They don't like to see what's in front of everyone else's face, so just tell her to 'move, bitch, get out the way'. Why be delicate, she aint.

littlewoman · 06/03/2008 10:42

sorry about the crudity

AttilaTheMeerkat · 06/03/2008 10:48

floops

Your husband needs to be completely honest with you now; he is conducting to my mind an emotional affair. Something is going on between these two; there is an emotional connection. There is secrecy here and he is giving his emotional energy to someone else when that energy should be directed at you his wife.

An affair becomes adultery long before the physical act. In fact, emotional affairs can be stronger and more difficult to get out of than physical affairs.

The late Shirly Glass was a pioneer in the area of emotional affairs. In her 2003 book "NOT Just Friends: Protect your relationship from infidelity and heal the trauma of betrayal," Glass identifies three red flags that indicate that you have progressed from a safe friendship to a romantic emotional affair.

  1. You feel closer to your friend than you do your spouse.

You find yourself thinking of this person more and more often and looking forward to the next time you are together. When something happens during the day, the first person you think of telling is this friend, not your spouse.

  1. Keeping secrets.

You no longer feel comfortable telling your spouse about this person. You begin to cover up so as not to be found out.

  1. An increasing sexual tension.

You admit your attraction for each other, but promise (complain) that you can never act on it. You fantasize what it would be like to be with this person. This helps to create a pretend world where everything would be wonderful if the two of you could just be together.

One of the most overlooked and dangerous facts about emotional affairs is that we are all vulnerable. If you believe that this fact does not apply to you (I note your husband has said this to you), then you are even more vulnerable than everyone else.

How to protect yourself and your relationship

Keep clear boundaries. A boundary is simply what kids mean when they say "don't go there."

Avoid being alone with and/or emotionally close to someone to whom you are attracted.

Talk often about your spouse. "Spouse bashing" does not count. Talk about what you have done lately and what you are looking forward to with your spouse.

If you are going to talk about emotional issues in your marriage, make sure you are talking to your spouse, a trusted friend who is on the side of you and your marriage or a professional who is on the side of your marriage.

Be especially careful at work. More and more emotional affairs are occurring in the workplace. You spend time together, you go through crises together, you solve problems together. Do not make a habit of taking private lunches or breaks with the same person over and over.

Set up a review committee in your mind. Ask yourself, "Would my wife, my mom, my wife's mom, my sister approve of what I am doing right now?" or, "Would my husband, my dad, my husband's dad, my brother approve of what I am doing right now?". He has likely not thought of this at all.

If the answer is no, then I offer you what is called the RLH prescription.

RHL stands for Run Like Hell!

Here is a cold dose of reality: 75 percent of marriages between affair partners result in divorce.

Not at all the result wanted at the beginning of an emotional affair.

The book called "Not Just Friends" is a good one to read.

I would also say that he needs to change job as well or at least work in a department where she is not around.

stirlingmum · 06/03/2008 12:02

Attila - I also read the "NOT Just Friends" book after my dh's affair. It is spot on.

I wish I had read it before because it all becomes so bloody obvious once you know what to look for.

And you are right, the affair doesn't start when they climb into bed. It starts long before then. It starts when they are telling each other things about each others relationships.

One thing that I took from the book and still ask dh if he happens to talk to the ow in the course of his work is "Would you be happy if I had overheard your conversation?" - If the answer is no then the conversation has crossed the line from friends to something else!!

floops · 06/03/2008 13:48

I think I will get the book now. Your last comment is exactly right. I did say to my husband if it were me would you be happy. He re-emphasised that they have a purely platonic relationship. I think I need to read the book to look out for other signs as if I keep harping on about it it will just drive a wedge between us but if I don't keep an eye our family unit may suffer in the end.

There has been some really constructive advise here. Thank you very much all of you. I'll have to keep you posted.

OP posts:
floops · 06/03/2008 14:04

Have just ordered the book and it is arriving by 1pm tomorrow. God, I only hope it doesn't make me worse. I went off to music group with my younger two this morning quite settled in the fact that everything would be ok. Now I'm not so sure. My husband is lovely he really is but everyone is at risk of a relationship creeping up on you/developing without maybe it meaning too. And as you all say he may be totally oblivious to it but what happens when it gets to the point of no return?

I'm going back to work after the easter hols and then have the opportunity to call in on him at work throughout the day unnannounced! Luckily I work across sites and therefore travel past his workplace frequently and it is all part of a larger organisation that we both work for. Therefore making it easy for me to have excuses to drop in!

OP posts:
newgirl · 06/03/2008 14:18

i realise that xmas was a while ago now but is giving expensive gifts the norm in your dh's work? maybe he felt peer pressure to spend lots on the assts as a xmas bonus?

on the other hand i dont think it is appropriate of him to be speaking to his asst late at night/texting etc full stop. At the very least I think this could compromise him from a work point of view - it is completely unprofessional - if it were me i would say to him that it is unprofessional and could lead to all sorts of problems

also i dont think men are that dozy to have relationships 'creep up on them' - would he be receiving texts from a 60 year old grandma who works in the office? i dont think so. i do hope it works out for you

musicgirl · 06/03/2008 14:20

Sorry but I think you are the kind and naive one in this relationship. What's going on is not normal in anyone's world. He probably slept with the previous assistant as well.

She probably is just using him to boost her career and her ego but doesn't really want him because he's married with 4 kids. He probably doesn't really want to break up his marriage and leave his kids. But he is playing you for a fool.

Just tell your husband you know what is going on and it stops right now.

CrushWithEyeliner · 06/03/2008 14:30

Remember a man cannot be "stolen" unless he wants to be. I wouldn't bother with the meeting/greeting routine ffs - you will look really desperate and she will probably be shit hot looking (maybe better that you) and you will feel v disarmed. Why grace her with the satisfaction of a conversation, I would be the cool wife. She is not your problem, HE is - it's him you need to deal with and she will soon get her hooks into someone else mark my words.

OUTRAGEOUS that he bought her costly gifts and you a poxy perfume

robin3 · 06/03/2008 14:46

I think it's probable that nothing much has happened as yet BUT I think she's using him frankly and his response is inappropriate.

I had a ex-boyfriend who suddenly started talking about a girl he was working with and I'm afraid I said 'sounds to me like you should take her out' and that's exactly what he did and they're now married . Biggest favour he could have done me really and after about 3 months he started to call me and say he'd made a mistake etc. so I felt I had the last laugh. Looking back 15 years now, I don't think he was unhappy in our relationship, I think men are easily flattered.

I think in your situation I would not reduce myself to speaking to her...I'd be honest and tell DH I was very hurt by the whole thing and had been trying to overlook it but because it's getting worse not better, I had no choice other to confront him. I think then I'd do wounded for 6 months.

skidoodle · 06/03/2008 15:02

agree with newgirl,

the whole "men are so naive and oblivious to women's attentions" is such a convenient crock of shit.

I also don't see why you should have to do the whole "surrendered woman" thing madamez is suggesting and remind him of why he's with you. You're his wife. He's behaving in an utterly inappropriate, unprofessional and hurtful way and he should stop.

His saying that you would never have anything to worry about worries me. No relationship is so rock solid that over many years there won't be times where there is a threat from an attraction to someone else. The way to make sure no damage is done is to take steps to prevent yourself allowing this kind of emotional attachment to build up. A corollary of this is taking your (non jealous and non controlling) spouse seriously if they raise concerns and not just fobbing them off.

Page62 · 06/03/2008 15:18

am so sorry, but i would be worried.
it doesn't seem like anything has happened yet but it does feel like he has crossed the boundary of appropriate behaviour -- even if it is initiated by her, by accepting text messages, buying her presents, he is condoning that behaviour.
all those presents? my god, that is some weird office. even buying a bottle of perfume for another woman that is not your wife/mother/sister/ other relative i would find very strange, let alone a whole list. If this woman is after your DH (which sounds the case), she would have certainly taken that as encouragement.
men are not as naive as some of us would like to think.
i think you have to have a firm talk with him. It is making your uncomfortable and misearble and that should be his number one concern, not dismissing it because as far as he's concerned it's platonic.

floops · 06/03/2008 15:49

The different emotions I have gone through in the past 24hrs is amazing. Wouldn't it have been so easy had you all thought yes you are being paranoid... I suppose deep down I know it is not like me to be concerned without reason.

OP posts:
Page62 · 06/03/2008 15:59

am sorry if i sounded harsh. obviously can be quite detached from it
i think the big issue here is that you are uncomfortable, and it is worrying you. it is easy for your DH but you're supposed to trust me etc etc, which is all well and go, but he is also supposed to look after your emotional well being.
good luck, i hope it is all ok

vInTaGeVioLeT · 06/03/2008 17:45

floops from what you've told us i don't think he's slept with her - if you've told him exactly how you feel i don't think there's much more you can do - do you trust him?

ScruffyTeddy · 06/03/2008 18:27

I dont think you should warn her off. With that you run the risk of making yourself look stupid whether she's actually after him or not.

I also dont think you should be icy towards her. Other people will notice.

I think the best thing you can do to her face is to be friendly and polite, do the sisterly chat thing, talk about your children, your husband in a friendly but non emotional/intrusive way and appear completely confident in your relationship. Maybe also make it known to her in some round about way that your dh has told you about her problems...if she was thinking that was a special bond between them then she'll be proved wrong wont she?

and while you're doing that you can be quietly judging her reactions and their behaviour towards each other.

floops · 07/03/2008 09:11

I did trust him, I do trust him. We probably just have a difference of opinion on relationships with friends. Where as I would not get into the situation of having a male friend who texts me stuff about his life etc. partly because I know my husband would not like it, he does support alot of people and won't see any harm in it. But that is why I have the doubt I suppose when you add everything else up.

I'll go with the nice/supportive approach on Sunday. I have sent in home baked goodies for them all today as Friday is their busiest day. I suppose I'm lucky in the fact that a few of the assistants think I'm a domestic goddess and he is lucky to have me and do tell him so apparently.

OP posts:
skidoodle · 07/03/2008 13:31

So he wouldn't be happy if you behaved similarly with a man?

How infuriating.

I would go further than ScruffyTeddy and say not only don't confront her in any way, but don't alter your behaviour towards her in any way. Don't try to freeze her out or be especially pally. Treat her as no more or less important than anyone else on his team, as that is how it should be.

LiarsPoker · 07/03/2008 14:10

floops,

LiarsPoker · 07/03/2008 14:10

floops,

if this relationship they got going on is making you uncomfortable, then trust your gut feeling and speak to your dh and nip it in the bud with all might.

What I'm going to tell you now is not making me proud but I feel I want to share it with you, so it might open your eyes.

My dh used to be my boss. We were introduced when I worked abroad by a good friend of his and his previous wife. He made me the offer to come to London and work for him.

We got along great, there was an immediate spark and after lots of client entertainment, frequent trips abroad and long business hours on the trading floor we got together. The feelings quickly intensified and we planned small getaways together and he literally moved into my place when at work.

I did send him a response to a text once which his wife found and since she knew me we talked but I managed to diffuse the situation and was cautious afterwards.

She is not exactly the brightest person and on a day together she slagged him off majorly to me, all the while living by the old adage: Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. He had cheated on her before and she clearly had an idea of what was going on but preferred to look the other way as to keep her life style and social standing.

There were a thousand hints and she just closed her eyes, thinking it'd go away, but it didn't.

On journeys we bought each other gifts and he brought her something small home. I chose her birthday gift and others as he couldn't be bothered as she was always ungrateful anyway.

After less than a year he moved out and in with me, they ended up in an acrimonious divorce and she blamed it all on him. Yet it was her that got preggers and cajoled him into marrying her just after his Mum died and he was looking for stability. It's a different story to your as this woman was a complete mismatch to him, intellectually as well as emotionally.

The bottom line is: if you're uncomfortable, have it out in the open. Don't bother and be nice to the assistant, as my dh's ex was to me, show her you mean business.

Speak to your dh in a serious way. Don't let him get away with excuses.

Do you know his other colleagues well? Or their wives? If you trust them, share your worries, chances are, you are the last to know.

I'm really sorry you find yourself in this situation. Don't wait around, pour a glass of red and sit down with dh soon.

Best of luck!

floops · 07/03/2008 14:14

Have just started reading the book and it has made me feel positive again. In terms of never becoming despondent jn the relationship. We do connect emotionally but with kids you all know that it does not happen every night after work . Last night I really took time out to discuss his day with him, the politics within his workplace etc. The book is really useful in pointing out what to look for and how to prevent things and I (if he has actually gone anywhere) can claw him back. I was thinking about my colleague and how we emotionally connect. The difference being she is female and it would obviously not develop into a physical relationship. But the point being just that we share an emotional attachment. It just happens to be that his assistant with whom he works closely is female. This would not however stop it getting physical in time but maybe I can prevent that now.

I was weary about posting this thread because I suppose I was scared about the responses and I would then have to face up to the truth. I'm so glad I posted this thread. Thank you for your responses. And a really big thank you for the recommendation of the book not only for myself but I suppose my husband and marriage and all of my children for whom our family unit remaining strong really matters.

OP posts:
NAB3wishesfor2008 · 07/03/2008 14:15

I think it is sad he wasn't going to get you anything and just did as an after thought. Maybe 3200+ isn't a lot to him but I think it is a lot to spend on your assistant.

This is making you feel uncomfortable and it is hus duty as your husband to put your mind at rest and not to give you reason to be upset.

Make a friend of her? Keep an eye....??

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