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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Paralyzed with indecision re: Ex-fiancee / current boyfriend / country / job

60 replies

4thIRMmeB · 28/09/2023 13:20

LONG post ahead—interminable situation. Looking for perspective from objective parties. Simple, “leave him!” type answers don’t address the underlying stuckness I’m in or why I went back after breaking up the first time. I very very much appreciate anyone reading all the way through and offering insight/stories!

Before I get into the muck, it’s relevant to note what my (f,31) ex-fiancee/current boyfriend (m,34) adds to my life: he’s my best friend and greatest companion. Handsome, bright, talented, affectionate, romantic—we never run out of things to talk about and I always feel that he is listening to me when I am speaking to him (even if he doesn’t agree with me or understand me). We share interests and a sense of humour, have similar family backgrounds, and some (not all) important life goals/values. He does most of the cooking, shopping and even cleaning. He pays half of everything (though, I imagine I’ll contribute more in the future). He comes from a middle-class but generous family who’ve offered to buy him an apartment once he’s chosen where he wants to live (but who knows when that will be). His family has embraced me, and he gets along well with my family and friends.

Now the muck: He insisted on an open relationship early on. I agreed to it unthinkingly. While he never acted on the “open relationship”, he insisted on keeping the possibility “open” years in, even after we’d become engaged (this is my fault too, I know) and I’d made it clear I loathed the idea. It was one of the main reasons for my ending our engagement, but we have been explicitly monogamous since reuniting.

About 9 months into our relationship the first time, and 3 weeks into my first salaried job (which he helped me get through his connection) the pandemic hit and my office became remote. He quit his job abruptly, citing conflict with his manager and concerns about the virus. He picked up gig economy work online, and I moved into his apartment to help pay rent. I was uncomfortable with him quitting his job at the beginning of a global recession, but he wanted to pivot into the arts, so applied to a prestigious art school abroad; it wasn’t clear what would happen to us if he got in.

He proposed to me one day at home (spur of the moment, no wedding date planned), and I accepted despite my reservations regarding the prospect of an open relationship and unsteady employment (I was in love and thrilled to be engaged).

Midway through the first pandemic summer, and about a year into our relationship we visited his parent’s home in Spain (his dad is Spanish). He stayed for over a month, while I returned home after two weeks for work. It really hurt me that he did not return with me given that we’d just become engaged (rings and announced at this point) and that I’d have to isolate for weeks alone—which was hellish (tiny, studio apartment; shared bathroom with the weird man next door; my own family in crisis) and I resented him for it. I proposed that I find my own apartment, that things were moving too fast. Meanwhile, he was rejected from the art school. In the end, the housing crisis (and frankly, my desire to live with a partner) resulted in us continuing to live together. This new, shared apartment became the only “home” I’ve known beyond my family home as we made it our own, and I was delighted.

That spring, he re-applied to the art school abroad without consulting me despite us being engaged and sharing a lease. His plan for us was that I would quit my job (a job I didn’t like, but which paid for my life) and move abroad with him; we would live in an apartment paid for by his parents (which I was not really comfortable with) while I looked for work. I’d expressed a lot of interest in moving abroad early in our relationship, I just wasn’t necessarily prepared to do so “forever” or under these circumstances. By the spring/summer 2021, he became restless with work and our little, domestic life in Ottawa so I began to prepare an application for an EU country work Visa to give us some options. In the meantime, he took another lengthy trip to his parent’s house in Europe, which I joined him on for two weeks before returning home for work, isolating alone, again.

By the end of summer, he was accepted to the art school in the UK, and suddenly my life was uprooted: I cancelled the EU Visa application but failed to get the necessary Visa to join him in the UK. It was the dead of Canadian winter, and the pandemic lockdowns were still severe. I was sent into a mental tailspin by the looming prospect of my fiancé abruptly moving continents without me. I experienced chronic stomach pain and anxiety. He left for school in January, and I, at 28 years old, moved back in with my parents (bless them) for a few months to decide whether to re-apply for the UK visa. I am not proud of the person I was at this time—catastrophic, fearful, entitled, myopic…not good. Nothing will devastate your ego like someone saying they love, want to marry you and have children with you while demanding an open relationship (though never act on it), and moving countries with or without you.

In March, I made a disastrous visit to see him in the UK, during which time he was (I guess reasonably) preoccupied with his studies, we fought a lot, and I experienced something like a narcissistic collapse. I ended our engagement a week after returning home and imposed NC for 6 months in light of my feeling extremely mentally unwell, as if I were coming off of drugs (attachment to him). I spent the next months fortifying my job (which I’d neglected amidst the drama of the pandemic and the relationship), finding an apartment, speaking to a therapist (in vain), and going on a million depressing tinder dates. My eating disorder flared up during this time and I lost a lot of weight very quickly. I wasn’t sleeping either. I was profoundly lonely and unmoored despite seeing my family regularly and friends weekly, joining a writing group and taking driving lessons (I failed my test). Eating alone in my apartment was ghastly.

I’d hoped/expected to feel some relief or something after we’d broken up, but I felt only fear and regret over not giving it a try, after all, he did offer some kind of future—marriage and an apartment, and I missed him. My future had been clipped like a flower bud. I felt alienated from work, my brother was (and is) mentally unwell and lives with my parents (so that spending time with them is often more distressing than comforting as I am not able to remedy it), my beloved grandmother was sick (and has since passed away), and the city had not yet recovered from lockdowns.

He respected the NC, but I broke it myself less than three months in. He enthusiastically resumed our correspondence. Within a few months, I’d secured the Visa, quit my job, and found a new, remote position where I could work from the UK. This time we would be monogamous. Nonetheless, I had serious misgivings about our reunion. While preparing to leave for the UK, I was offered a more attractive job in Ontario (slightly worse pay, but better prospects and security) through another connection of his, but I turned it down. I have some serious regrets over that decision, but I had to follow through on the UK and settle things between us.

The stress and doubt surrounding the move/reunion/new job saw my health deteriorate rapidly: I gained weight back as rapidly as I’d lost it, lost my period for months, got acne for the first time in my life and was diagnosed with PCOS shortly after arriving in the UK. I have failed to find work in the UK which has lowered my self-confidence (especially because I’m paid in Canadian dollars, so am DECIMATING my income by converting it to GBP).

We’ve been in this weird state of reconciliation for 6(!) months now. I still love him, but I am not flourishing in the UK while he is (he’s graduated now, working on art projects). There’s a tentative deadline of one year from now when his UK visa will run out, and he’ll apply for a new one, at which point we’d have to marry to stay together or break up for good—but I’m doubting my ability to ever, truly disentangle myself.

Regardless of whatever happens between him and me, I have lost faith/hope in my life in general. I don’t know whether to prioritize finding a relationship that could facilitate children or to re-direct my money/energy to finding a true vocation or new job (which will inevitably mean deferring children and I’m already in my 30’s). Should I stay in the UK now that I’m here (with or without him), or move home?

I’m susceptible to catastrophic thoughts of “ending up alone” not because I’m totally repulsive (though, I have my moments), but because I only seem compatible with/attracted to impulsive, somewhat immature men who then make me feel crazy. I feel as if we deserve one another, and that I have as good a chance with him as anyone (at least I love him). I’ve lost faith in a happy future, with him or on my own. Perhaps I’m just being impatient or unrealistic about the amount of compromise a partnership entails. I could, feasibly, be married, living in a purchased apartment on a longer Visa one or two years from now (though, I don’t feel mentally well enough for children right now), but I fear that won’t address the underlying unhappiness/instability.

Help me MN! Help me sort out what I want and/or what is good for me!

PS it’s worth noting that a not-dissimilar scenario preceded the collapse of my older brother who is depressed, unemployed and lives with my aging parents. He too was dating an ambitious, adventurous partner who left him while he failed to find meaningful employment, sending him into a morbid depression that has consumed him for 4 years now. While my heart aches for my brother, his story also strikes a paralyzing fear in me that I should end up just like him.

OP posts:
crushedgal19 · 28/09/2023 16:19

I think in this scenario, you really need to put yourself first and think what will be best for you.

Don't let your age define where you should or shouldn't be in life. Even with the having children part.

Have you spoken to him about how you're feeling?

4thIRMmeB · 28/09/2023 16:48

@crushedgal19 all the time. He knows exactly how I feel, but his position is basically that he needs to pursue the life that fulfills him (abroad & art) without compromise (say, moving back home or getting a steady job) otherwise he'll resent me. He wants me to be apart of that life but is not willing to compromise any of his ideals for me, and would understand if I left him. Apart of me feels he is actually being responsible by being upfront about what he wants/needs, but another part of me thinks it's insane to expect a partner to fit seamlessly into your life without compromise. He has admitted that he doesn't take my wellbeing into consideration when making life decisions. I've lost confidence in my own desires so i'm not able to conjure a compelling alternative to the life he intends to lead.

OP posts:
HundredMilesAnHour · 28/09/2023 20:34

You seem to be a passenger in your own life. This man doesn't sound good for you but you seem to be miserably clinging on as you're scared of being alone. I think the best thing for you is to actually face your fear and be alone. Find out who you are and what you want. And don't even consider a relationship to you actually start liking yourself and value yourself. You should have dumped him when he wanted an open relationship. Instead you went alone with it despite it not being what you wanted. And it's been a slippery slope ever since then. No wonder your health, mental and physical, is not great. He is not the man for you. You need to figure out who you are and what makes you happy. You're a bit player in show. Go get your own show and star in that!

HowAmYa · 28/09/2023 20:58

You could marry this guy and have kids, but I guarantee the stress of children will be enough for the 'open relationship' to rear its head.

My god you deserve better.

Don't move half way around the world FOR someone. Do it WITH someone or do it alone. You moved without even having an established relationship.

Focus on you. I'd leave, go NC. And think about what YOU actually want. Where can you see yourself living? What would you like to do career wise?

You have plenty of time to have kids, people have kids in late 30s all the time, and in their 40s too.

But this is a disaster waiting to happen. Please don't continue this head fuck. Look after you from now on x

4thIRMmeB · 28/09/2023 22:01

@HowAmYa re: the open relationship, i've had the same thought that this isn't the last i'll hear of it, he'll bring it up again at some point in the future when he feels dissatisfied/bored/trapped even if he doesn't know it himself yet...sometimes I think it'd still be preferable to ending up alone and without children, but then I know i'm being melodramatic and selfish toward any future child who'd be subjected to the inevitable chaos.

As for the not being in an established relationhsip when I moved—I'm actually the one who's kept him at arms length. He's even proposed to me again since being here, but I turned him down citing the need for more evidence of stability in our future. I think really I just feel that we are doomed but I am at a loss to conjure an alternative life...I'm not proud of myself. Thank you for your words of encouragement x

OP posts:
4thIRMmeB · 28/09/2023 22:04

@HundredMilesAnHour thank you! you've nailed it. I don't know why I am so morbidly afraid of being alone. Any advice on how to sort out what it is I want? I don't know if it's better to stay with him until I have a plan for what's next, or to leave him now and just freefall into the unknown.

OP posts:
GrumpyPanda · 28/09/2023 22:06

He freely admits you're not a priority for him. What's in this for you?

HowAmYa · 28/09/2023 22:09

4thIRMmeB · 28/09/2023 22:01

@HowAmYa re: the open relationship, i've had the same thought that this isn't the last i'll hear of it, he'll bring it up again at some point in the future when he feels dissatisfied/bored/trapped even if he doesn't know it himself yet...sometimes I think it'd still be preferable to ending up alone and without children, but then I know i'm being melodramatic and selfish toward any future child who'd be subjected to the inevitable chaos.

As for the not being in an established relationhsip when I moved—I'm actually the one who's kept him at arms length. He's even proposed to me again since being here, but I turned him down citing the need for more evidence of stability in our future. I think really I just feel that we are doomed but I am at a loss to conjure an alternative life...I'm not proud of myself. Thank you for your words of encouragement x

I meant more so from the point that you hadn't re-established properly before you moved there.
Its a lot to take on and its a lot to do when you're riding it all on a risky relationship that's fallen apart before.

When you're in a situation like this, it's almost impossible to see the alternative. You won't see it till you leave. There's a wonderfully interesting thread currently on sliding doors moments. Give it a read. What could have been and almost was. This might be your moment.

You have been given one life that you know of. This precious time is something you don't need to waste on something that you can see deep down is not worth it.

4thIRMmeB · 28/09/2023 22:13

@HowAmYa thank you ! x

OP posts:
Octavia64 · 28/09/2023 22:20

Your partner has expressed clearly that he is going to run his own life and move to where he needs to go.

Even when you were with him as a couple you were left on your own when he just made impulsive decisions.

He will not support you. It sounds like you want to be part of a couple because you fear being alone, but this relationship will always have the potential that he just ups and goes.

So..
what makes you feel safe? Maybe worth talking to a therapist and trying to unpick what you might want.

Free advice: don't have kids with this man in the current set up.

HundredMilesAnHour · 28/09/2023 22:26

4thIRMmeB · 28/09/2023 22:04

@HundredMilesAnHour thank you! you've nailed it. I don't know why I am so morbidly afraid of being alone. Any advice on how to sort out what it is I want? I don't know if it's better to stay with him until I have a plan for what's next, or to leave him now and just freefall into the unknown.

You start by dumping him. And then get out there and find yourself. Find what you enjoy! Try some hobbies. Meet new people. Explore the UK. Try volunteering in something that interests you. Take an art class or hike a mountain or learn to paddleboard. Get a cheap flight somewhere in Europe for a weekend/week/month. The world is your oyster, it really is. You work remotely, you have so much freedom!

It might sound scary. But it's time to make the break. Life is too short to be this unhappy. You need to work out what makes you happy rather than trying to find happiness in someone else.That will never work. You need to learn to love yourself and then you'll see how you're worth so much more and you'll look back and wonder what on earth you were thinking being with this manchild. Stop selling yourself short.

4thIRMmeB · 28/09/2023 22:29

@GrumpyPanda

What's in it for me:

  • Companionship
  • Safe (insofar as I am not alone) travel & adventure
  • The prospect of marriage + children (even if not under ideal circumstances)
  • Societal acceptance and approval; it is simply easier to participate in society at this age as a part of a couple
  • A surrogate family - my family has fallen apart a bit amidst sickness and such, his family is like an intact bosom that has embraced me, but I know I will never really be one of them.

I'm living one giant compromise, I know. But i'm not doing it for nothing. I get a lot out of this relationship, it's just that everything I get is tainted with self-loathing and despair. Without blaming her, it's worth noting I have actually replicated my mother's relationship with my father to some degree...She has never had a life of her own as long as i've been alive and I think it accounts for a lot of her sadness.

re: not being his priority— ironically, if I were his priority perhaps i'd have enough self-worth to leave him for good.

OP posts:
OspreyLambo · 28/09/2023 22:29

OK first of all why stay in the UK? What's here for you without him? If you couldn't even find a job here but needed to work remotely for a Canadian company - then go back to Canada.
PP have stated a lot about him but what I see is a lot of 'logical analysis'. It's good that you have a degree of self-awareness but you tend to think and justify too much to yourself.
You don't need to weigh up logically whether he's a good partner or not. He wanted an open relationship and you didn't want to but went along with it, now you want 'evidence of stability'... seriously. Don't torture yourself like this.

Before you can think about a man and a relationship you need to work on yourself.

marriage and children are overrated, more and more people are staying single. If you think societal participation required being in a couple you're looking in the wrong places!

Callmemummynotmaaa · 28/09/2023 22:41

OP, I hope you are as ok as can be. Sadly it reads like fundamentally you are perhaps not comparable on the bigger life goals?

I can only compare to my own life - but to be it sounds like your partner is being very brave in making life decisions and deciding how he would like to live. If that’s not what you want - that’s ok - but my worry in reading your posts is that you are resentful that he has perused these dreams?

I know I’m offering a different perspective to others above - but…as someone in a relationship since my late teens, navigating what “adulthood” looks like with a person is one of the hardest things to do together. I’ve lived and worked separately from my husband in order to further my career and would have been really conflicted if he’d have held me back. Neither of us live where we grew up. As we’ve had kids, it’s a constant dance as to how parenting responsibilities are shared. BUT we both priorities each other where we can. Fit in date nights. Etc.

it sounds as if, at least for now, your partner wants to stay building his life in the UK. Him wanting to do this, is no more ‘selfish’ than you wanting to move home. But…both can’t happen.

In a similar vein - he’s not a demon for asking for an open relationship. It sounds to me as if he is trying to keep his wants/his thoughts on values in a relationship open for discussion. When you’ve said they are not your values/not what you want - he’s respected that (acted monogamously, given you space). While you can (understandably) wish his values would change - just because yours are more common/normative doesn’t mean they are the only values that “matter”. If you are of a strong belief that your opinion won’t change on this…why do you think his should?

sorry. I know this is likely really hard to hear. But location, shared goals, and what a “good” relationship looks like are different for different people. My worry in reading your messages is that you know his wishes are not the same as yours, but have been hoping they’d change. This isn’t a fair thing for you to ask of him - or for him to ask of you! It’s ok for your wants to matter…but you’ll need to find someone else that shares your vision. Waiting and hoping his will change is likely only going to lead to more heartbreak.

BoohooWoohoo · 28/09/2023 22:46

I think that the biggest mistake you can make is to stay in the UK. If you have children here and split up then you are stuck living here for years because the court wouldn't allow minor children who are resident in the UK to emigrate.

You are clinging onto this relationship out of fear and rapidly losing yourself. You need to start a journal and read over and over what he says. You Are Not His Priority. He will do what he wants to do in life. That's not what good father material says. There has to be compromise and change when a baby comes along and he needs yo be able to prioritise you and the family unit for it to be successful and the children to be happy. Men like him shouldn't have families because they will resent the partner and children for "holding them back"and preventing carefree single life stuff like going out all night because the kids have school the next day.

4thIRMmeB · 28/09/2023 22:54

@OspreyLambo Why stay in the UK? I have a few friends here, and it's an English speaking country so even though I haven't found work yet, I suppose I could, and there is something to be said for gaining international work experience. I put so much time/effort/money into moving here it seems like a collossal failure/waste to return home without even staying the length of the Visa. On the other hand, i'm just burning time/cash staying here so perhaps that's sunk cost fallacy....does this sound silly?

I'm also hesitant to return home because this pattern of compromises with my bf mirrors the many compromises I've made to appease my dad/family before (such as when choosing where to study, etc.). I'm afraid moving home I'll just fall back into old patterns and defer to my dad's authority instead of my boyfriend's. Somehow it feels slightly less pathetic to defer to my boyfriend because at least I chose his company...but now that i'm writing it out maybe it's actually more pathetic...maybe my boyfriend chose me.

Good observation, both my brother and I suffer from using logic/analysis to avoid confronting emotional/intuitive truths...but how do I stop?

As for the fitting into society—I don't drink and am a lowkey, domestic person but still social, so having a family is a good way to appease my desire for socializing. Plus, Idk i just feel I want a family one day...feels intuitive/primordial.

OP posts:
Uggghhhh · 28/09/2023 22:56

Get out op.

he doesn’t know how to love anyone but himself by the sounds of it. And he doesn’t seem to care whether you go along with what he wants or not. He’ll do it anyway.

this relationship is way too unbalanced. It’s all about him. No wonder your self esteem is shot to shit.

Go find your own way, you’ve got time. And you might not feel strong now but I reckon getting away from him will make you stronger but staying with him will do the opposite.

Believe that you are lucky. Believe that everything works out. Don’t try to control it. Don’t try to predict the future. Focus on now and the rest will fall into place.

merryhouse · 28/09/2023 22:59

I think you should go home. Not to your parents, but to the country where you grew up and where you don't have to worry about visas or who you can work for or where your potential children will live.

I think you should admit to yourself that this relationship is not making you happy.

Split up, find somewhere pleasant to live in Ottawa, decide whether you like this job or want to try for something else.

It won't solve everything, but it will put you in a place where you might be able to make a start.

overnightangel · 28/09/2023 22:59

You’ve clearly got plants going for you and are sabotaging it all for the sake of someone who’s has cruelly strung you along. I read at the start where you said you wanted something more than “leave him” but having read the full post, I have no other conclusion

overnightangel · 28/09/2023 23:01

*got plenty going for you.

I’d plan a life without him and whichever of the options that don’t involve him that you think would make you happiest for the next 6-18 months, do that

JassyRadlett · 28/09/2023 23:04

Any relationship that requires all the compromise to be done by one person isn't a real relationship. It's not a partnership. When someone is telling you they don't want to compromise their dreams and whims for you? They're really telling you two things. One, that they are a fundamentally selfish person. And two, that they don't love you enough to bend even a little to keep you, let alone make you happy.

That's the crux of it. Making you happy isn't one of his dreams. And it never will be.

Please don't waste any more time on this guy. Take a breath, take stock and think about where you want your life to be. In the happy movie of your life, what's the backdrop? What's the city? What accents are you hearing all around you? What job are you invisible doing while living your fabulous life?

I think you're spot on that you're recycling unhealthy dynamics over and over. Have you got a decent therapist to help you try to navigate your way out of the cycle?

I think you're also right that if you went back to where you were, you'd easily fall back into your old family dynamic. So don't. Canada is a huge place with so many brilliant places. It's so much easier to live somewhere different in your own country than to be an immigrant, though if you wanted to stick it out in the UK that wouldn't be a bad choice - just that being an immigrant increases the difficulty level. I'm 18 years in, from an Anglophone country, and I still feel like I'm swimming upstream sometimes.

4thIRMmeB · 29/09/2023 00:08

@JassyRadlett may I ask what brought you to the UK?

OP posts:
4thIRMmeB · 29/09/2023 00:36

@JassyRadlett and thank you for the thoughtful reply <3

OP posts:
RantyAnty · 29/09/2023 05:23

Go back to Canada where you're from.

This guy is extremely selfish and is all about himself.

You mention going through your savings. Is he not helping you out financially? How did he afford to move to the UK and support himself?

You don't have to go back to your dad's but can build your own life where you clearly have job opportunities and more of a chance to meet someone decent if you want to.

Get into therapy once you get back too.

Cherriesandstrawberries · 29/09/2023 06:39

You’ve need to get back to therapy and learn to be truly peaceful alone. You’re relying on other people to provide happiness for you.

I write this from experience as I too would go straight onto online dating after a break up and I only thought I could be happy if I’m in a relationship.

There is an immense peace to be found when you eventually feel happy with yourself and your life without someone there. Only then might you meet the right kind of guys who will enrich your already fulfilled life.

At the moment you sound very anxious and chaotic inside of yourself and you are going to feel so rotten when he actually goes out and sleeps with someone else. Never rely on man financially either as you’ll be trapped. Read all the stories on mumsnet of how women can’t escape very upsetting situations because they have no money of their own. This will only lead to disaster as you now it in your heart otherwise you wouldn’t be asking here