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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Paralyzed with indecision re: Ex-fiancee / current boyfriend / country / job

60 replies

4thIRMmeB · 28/09/2023 13:20

LONG post ahead—interminable situation. Looking for perspective from objective parties. Simple, “leave him!” type answers don’t address the underlying stuckness I’m in or why I went back after breaking up the first time. I very very much appreciate anyone reading all the way through and offering insight/stories!

Before I get into the muck, it’s relevant to note what my (f,31) ex-fiancee/current boyfriend (m,34) adds to my life: he’s my best friend and greatest companion. Handsome, bright, talented, affectionate, romantic—we never run out of things to talk about and I always feel that he is listening to me when I am speaking to him (even if he doesn’t agree with me or understand me). We share interests and a sense of humour, have similar family backgrounds, and some (not all) important life goals/values. He does most of the cooking, shopping and even cleaning. He pays half of everything (though, I imagine I’ll contribute more in the future). He comes from a middle-class but generous family who’ve offered to buy him an apartment once he’s chosen where he wants to live (but who knows when that will be). His family has embraced me, and he gets along well with my family and friends.

Now the muck: He insisted on an open relationship early on. I agreed to it unthinkingly. While he never acted on the “open relationship”, he insisted on keeping the possibility “open” years in, even after we’d become engaged (this is my fault too, I know) and I’d made it clear I loathed the idea. It was one of the main reasons for my ending our engagement, but we have been explicitly monogamous since reuniting.

About 9 months into our relationship the first time, and 3 weeks into my first salaried job (which he helped me get through his connection) the pandemic hit and my office became remote. He quit his job abruptly, citing conflict with his manager and concerns about the virus. He picked up gig economy work online, and I moved into his apartment to help pay rent. I was uncomfortable with him quitting his job at the beginning of a global recession, but he wanted to pivot into the arts, so applied to a prestigious art school abroad; it wasn’t clear what would happen to us if he got in.

He proposed to me one day at home (spur of the moment, no wedding date planned), and I accepted despite my reservations regarding the prospect of an open relationship and unsteady employment (I was in love and thrilled to be engaged).

Midway through the first pandemic summer, and about a year into our relationship we visited his parent’s home in Spain (his dad is Spanish). He stayed for over a month, while I returned home after two weeks for work. It really hurt me that he did not return with me given that we’d just become engaged (rings and announced at this point) and that I’d have to isolate for weeks alone—which was hellish (tiny, studio apartment; shared bathroom with the weird man next door; my own family in crisis) and I resented him for it. I proposed that I find my own apartment, that things were moving too fast. Meanwhile, he was rejected from the art school. In the end, the housing crisis (and frankly, my desire to live with a partner) resulted in us continuing to live together. This new, shared apartment became the only “home” I’ve known beyond my family home as we made it our own, and I was delighted.

That spring, he re-applied to the art school abroad without consulting me despite us being engaged and sharing a lease. His plan for us was that I would quit my job (a job I didn’t like, but which paid for my life) and move abroad with him; we would live in an apartment paid for by his parents (which I was not really comfortable with) while I looked for work. I’d expressed a lot of interest in moving abroad early in our relationship, I just wasn’t necessarily prepared to do so “forever” or under these circumstances. By the spring/summer 2021, he became restless with work and our little, domestic life in Ottawa so I began to prepare an application for an EU country work Visa to give us some options. In the meantime, he took another lengthy trip to his parent’s house in Europe, which I joined him on for two weeks before returning home for work, isolating alone, again.

By the end of summer, he was accepted to the art school in the UK, and suddenly my life was uprooted: I cancelled the EU Visa application but failed to get the necessary Visa to join him in the UK. It was the dead of Canadian winter, and the pandemic lockdowns were still severe. I was sent into a mental tailspin by the looming prospect of my fiancé abruptly moving continents without me. I experienced chronic stomach pain and anxiety. He left for school in January, and I, at 28 years old, moved back in with my parents (bless them) for a few months to decide whether to re-apply for the UK visa. I am not proud of the person I was at this time—catastrophic, fearful, entitled, myopic…not good. Nothing will devastate your ego like someone saying they love, want to marry you and have children with you while demanding an open relationship (though never act on it), and moving countries with or without you.

In March, I made a disastrous visit to see him in the UK, during which time he was (I guess reasonably) preoccupied with his studies, we fought a lot, and I experienced something like a narcissistic collapse. I ended our engagement a week after returning home and imposed NC for 6 months in light of my feeling extremely mentally unwell, as if I were coming off of drugs (attachment to him). I spent the next months fortifying my job (which I’d neglected amidst the drama of the pandemic and the relationship), finding an apartment, speaking to a therapist (in vain), and going on a million depressing tinder dates. My eating disorder flared up during this time and I lost a lot of weight very quickly. I wasn’t sleeping either. I was profoundly lonely and unmoored despite seeing my family regularly and friends weekly, joining a writing group and taking driving lessons (I failed my test). Eating alone in my apartment was ghastly.

I’d hoped/expected to feel some relief or something after we’d broken up, but I felt only fear and regret over not giving it a try, after all, he did offer some kind of future—marriage and an apartment, and I missed him. My future had been clipped like a flower bud. I felt alienated from work, my brother was (and is) mentally unwell and lives with my parents (so that spending time with them is often more distressing than comforting as I am not able to remedy it), my beloved grandmother was sick (and has since passed away), and the city had not yet recovered from lockdowns.

He respected the NC, but I broke it myself less than three months in. He enthusiastically resumed our correspondence. Within a few months, I’d secured the Visa, quit my job, and found a new, remote position where I could work from the UK. This time we would be monogamous. Nonetheless, I had serious misgivings about our reunion. While preparing to leave for the UK, I was offered a more attractive job in Ontario (slightly worse pay, but better prospects and security) through another connection of his, but I turned it down. I have some serious regrets over that decision, but I had to follow through on the UK and settle things between us.

The stress and doubt surrounding the move/reunion/new job saw my health deteriorate rapidly: I gained weight back as rapidly as I’d lost it, lost my period for months, got acne for the first time in my life and was diagnosed with PCOS shortly after arriving in the UK. I have failed to find work in the UK which has lowered my self-confidence (especially because I’m paid in Canadian dollars, so am DECIMATING my income by converting it to GBP).

We’ve been in this weird state of reconciliation for 6(!) months now. I still love him, but I am not flourishing in the UK while he is (he’s graduated now, working on art projects). There’s a tentative deadline of one year from now when his UK visa will run out, and he’ll apply for a new one, at which point we’d have to marry to stay together or break up for good—but I’m doubting my ability to ever, truly disentangle myself.

Regardless of whatever happens between him and me, I have lost faith/hope in my life in general. I don’t know whether to prioritize finding a relationship that could facilitate children or to re-direct my money/energy to finding a true vocation or new job (which will inevitably mean deferring children and I’m already in my 30’s). Should I stay in the UK now that I’m here (with or without him), or move home?

I’m susceptible to catastrophic thoughts of “ending up alone” not because I’m totally repulsive (though, I have my moments), but because I only seem compatible with/attracted to impulsive, somewhat immature men who then make me feel crazy. I feel as if we deserve one another, and that I have as good a chance with him as anyone (at least I love him). I’ve lost faith in a happy future, with him or on my own. Perhaps I’m just being impatient or unrealistic about the amount of compromise a partnership entails. I could, feasibly, be married, living in a purchased apartment on a longer Visa one or two years from now (though, I don’t feel mentally well enough for children right now), but I fear that won’t address the underlying unhappiness/instability.

Help me MN! Help me sort out what I want and/or what is good for me!

PS it’s worth noting that a not-dissimilar scenario preceded the collapse of my older brother who is depressed, unemployed and lives with my aging parents. He too was dating an ambitious, adventurous partner who left him while he failed to find meaningful employment, sending him into a morbid depression that has consumed him for 4 years now. While my heart aches for my brother, his story also strikes a paralyzing fear in me that I should end up just like him.

OP posts:
DelphiniumBlue · 29/09/2023 06:54

You are not as important to him as he is to you. You have already said that he will make big life changes without considering or consulting you, and will not compromise his plans to help you. He's going to do whatever he feels like, irrespective of how it affects you, so it doesn't seem as if you can rely on him or build a future with him.

TheresaOfAvila · 29/09/2023 06:56

4thIRMmeB · 28/09/2023 16:48

@crushedgal19 all the time. He knows exactly how I feel, but his position is basically that he needs to pursue the life that fulfills him (abroad & art) without compromise (say, moving back home or getting a steady job) otherwise he'll resent me. He wants me to be apart of that life but is not willing to compromise any of his ideals for me, and would understand if I left him. Apart of me feels he is actually being responsible by being upfront about what he wants/needs, but another part of me thinks it's insane to expect a partner to fit seamlessly into your life without compromise. He has admitted that he doesn't take my wellbeing into consideration when making life decisions. I've lost confidence in my own desires so i'm not able to conjure a compelling alternative to the life he intends to lead.

To be honest. I don’t think you are well suited. He is happy to not consider you and your well being.
and bizarrely- you aren’t prepared to consider you and your well being.

The path you are on will not bring you happiness. You are sabotaging your career for this guy and for the life of me I cannot see that he would ever do the same for you.
you deserve better and more. Cut your losses and focus only on your career for a few years.

Feetupteashot · 29/09/2023 07:23

He needs to understand the place of compromise in a relationship to be a good long term partner. I would try counseling then maybe break up

Loubelle70 · 29/09/2023 07:31

HowAmYa · 28/09/2023 20:58

You could marry this guy and have kids, but I guarantee the stress of children will be enough for the 'open relationship' to rear its head.

My god you deserve better.

Don't move half way around the world FOR someone. Do it WITH someone or do it alone. You moved without even having an established relationship.

Focus on you. I'd leave, go NC. And think about what YOU actually want. Where can you see yourself living? What would you like to do career wise?

You have plenty of time to have kids, people have kids in late 30s all the time, and in their 40s too.

But this is a disaster waiting to happen. Please don't continue this head fuck. Look after you from now on x

This

Meadowdog · 29/09/2023 08:00

I think first of all you need to focus on your financial stability and career. Instead of thinking about whether you can get a job here, think about where and how you can get the best job and work towards that. Maybe with a large company to give you the stability you need. That could be anywhere in Canada, (most likely), possibly in the UK, or somewhere else. This is what you need to establish your independence from this man and from your family. You are not your brother and don't need to collapse/move home when your relationship ends!

Once you're in a good stable job you can work on yourself. I think you need to Tey therapy again and change therapists if you need to until you find the right fit.

I think you realise deep down this relationship isn't right for you. We often look for relationships that mirror our childhood experiences. These relationships feel really right because they feel like family. But they're not right at all. I think that's what's going on with you here.

You can be a strong, independent woman and find your own way in the world. You have everything it takes to do so, but you need to realise that yourself. I don't mean you need to be alone forever. But I do know we tend to attract people on the same emotional level as ourselves. You need to get yourself to the best state you can in order to find the best partner. But if you don’t find that person you'll find by then you're OK alone too.

friskybivalves · 29/09/2023 08:20

I am more curious to know what you did before you got together with this slightly hopeless sounding/cruel/charmer. You dropped into your opening post that you had just taken up your first salaried post - trying to work out ages - but, what, at age 27 or similar? It may be different in Canada, but that is pretty late for most people. Particularly when you are clearly educated, articulate, etc.

I mean this gently, but are you a bit of a drifter - someone who goes from thing to thing, are taken along on the ebb and flow of life, propelled by others and by circumstance? I could be wrong - particularly as it also takes courage to up sticks and cross continents for a new life. And thank goodness not everyone sets off driven by fierce ambition and with a life plan framed on their fridge aged 16. But the clues to your current indecision might be there in your earlier life - teens and early 20s. And the solutions may also be found if you return where you lived then...Canada, not the UK, and stronger support networks.

I really don't think this is thr man to whom.you should hitch your wagon. He is, as my dear mother would say, not a proper person. And that says it all.

JassyRadlett · 29/09/2023 09:28

I came to follow my dream 😁

But the difference is that I was in my mid-20s and single so chasing a dream of living in the UK and travelling a lot wasn't having an impact on anyone else. The UK provided great work opportunities and the ability to see a lot more of the world that I would have done otherwise.

It was never meant to be permanent, I jokingly describe it as a working holiday gone wrong. Because then I met my now-husband, and here I am nearly two decades later.

Being an immigrant is tough even if you wanted to do it with every fibre of your being. I can't imagine how much tougher it would be if you'd done it for someone else. That's one reason I've never asked my husband to move to my country - he'd be doing it for me, not because he really wanted to do it.

4thIRMmeB · 29/09/2023 11:21

@friskybivalves You are perceptive. Yes, "drifter" is applicable, I tend to look to others to tell me what to do (including here, lol), as I have always had quite low self-confidence, I could go into why I think it's the case, but to answer your question, I entered my current professional field late as I was "pursuing" my own art practice (naively, and mostly at the encouragement of my highschool art teacher/out of adolescent rebellion against my parents; but I compromised even then, studying art but doing so at a school/in a city my parents approved of when I wanted to do so elsewhere).

I completed a second degree in something practical/employable (but in retrospect, not interesting to me) at the recommendation of a friend I respect (another authority i deferred to) just prior to meeting my bf. My goal was, narrowly, to become financially independent of my parents. I did not take into consideration how ill-suited I was to the profession, nor what it would do to my self-esteem/happiness to work in something I'm not interested in and not especially good at. That being said, I don't totally regret it, because it did emancipate me a little from my parents (who are loving and good, but also highly critical and controlling).

I've come to the conclusion that I simply have not lived (and possibly do not know how to) via my own compass. I am so profoundly alienated from my own desires as to wonder if I have any! I've lived mimetically my entire life! No wonder i'm so unhappy/unfulfilled and pretty much always have been (save for brief moments of escapism and novelty).

As for returning home to Canada versus staying in the UK for the duration of my Visa, I fear that if I return home I will simply defer back to my dad's authority and end up miserable yet again (this is kind of what happened when I broke up with bf last year).

Part of my wanting to move abroad was to create some distance, but it has also made me more dependent on bf as I have lost my support network/am swimming in uncharted waters (new jobs system, new currency, etc.).

I've never been good with boundaries, or identifying where others' desires end and mine begin.

Any advice? 😂

OP posts:
friskybivalves · 29/09/2023 12:15

I, too, have lived abroad - in many different countries and had to make homes in different continents without my parents' support. But I did have the help of my partner as I was floundering. Looking back, I think that to have had neither the bedrock of my home country nor the solid foundations of a partnership to fall back on - well, life would have felt like eternally shifting sands. Navigating the bureaucracy and life admin is joyless enough when you have a clear sense of purpose as to why you are in a place.

Your urge and determination to break free of your parents' slightly stifling (albeit loving?) influence is wholly understandable. Your love of art need not and should not be snuffed out. Your ex looked like he had that same interest - but there will be another partner who shares that passion but is not a cruel man child who plays with your boundaries and exploits your love for him in such a cruel way - keeping you dangling with guff about open relationships just in case he spots someone else (as if he is the big I Am FGS, when actually he sounds quite the loser, parasiting off his own parents for an apartment).

Canada is big enough that you can frame this return as a positive. Find a place to live in a city that is not near your parents (you have mentioned Ottawa I think, sorry am on phone so can't scroll back to check - what about Toronto or Montreal/Edmonton/Vancouver?). Take a job in a gallery or otherwise related to arts or music - something that speaks to your soul and passions.

I really think you need to distance yourself from a) manchild and b) from parents who treat you like child, but go back closer to your bedrock roots. Don't worry about the partner thing. That will fall into place when you physically, and your head mentally, are in the right and better place.

OspreyLambo · 29/09/2023 20:33

4thIRMmeB · 28/09/2023 22:54

@OspreyLambo Why stay in the UK? I have a few friends here, and it's an English speaking country so even though I haven't found work yet, I suppose I could, and there is something to be said for gaining international work experience. I put so much time/effort/money into moving here it seems like a collossal failure/waste to return home without even staying the length of the Visa. On the other hand, i'm just burning time/cash staying here so perhaps that's sunk cost fallacy....does this sound silly?

I'm also hesitant to return home because this pattern of compromises with my bf mirrors the many compromises I've made to appease my dad/family before (such as when choosing where to study, etc.). I'm afraid moving home I'll just fall back into old patterns and defer to my dad's authority instead of my boyfriend's. Somehow it feels slightly less pathetic to defer to my boyfriend because at least I chose his company...but now that i'm writing it out maybe it's actually more pathetic...maybe my boyfriend chose me.

Good observation, both my brother and I suffer from using logic/analysis to avoid confronting emotional/intuitive truths...but how do I stop?

As for the fitting into society—I don't drink and am a lowkey, domestic person but still social, so having a family is a good way to appease my desire for socializing. Plus, Idk i just feel I want a family one day...feels intuitive/primordial.

You logic doesn't sound silly - but from what you said, your UK visa depends on his, which has a year to go. It's highly unlikely that any company will want to hire you, unless you get a short-term contract with the understanding that you'll leave after. Of course, depending on your job role you might get sponsored for a work visa but it's extremely difficult in the UK - even if you're in a shortage profession.

Besides that, job hunting is demoralising, you need the mental strength to withstand rejections, interview after interview, etc. You already have a lot going on right now.

Canada is massive (unlike the UK). Move home, somewhere far away from your family. Do what your instincts tell you to. Don't analyse, don't think, just... live. Join some hobby groups, take a sport, hiking, whatever. Do something for yourself it doesn't have to involve drinking.

I used to have the same problem and I think us people who analyse think we're being rational - but we're just scared to trust ourselves. The more we analyse the more we tend to 'explain away' things that should have us running for the hills instead of making good emotional decisions. Because good emotional decisions come from a place of emotional stability and grounding, not from 'reason'.

I've had relationships where we get on great, they did the housework etc etc but it just didn't feel right so I ended it. As you rightly did once, despite how great your BF looks on paper. It takes time to learn to trust yourself I wouldn't rush - but it needs to be done

HenryCavillsWife · 29/09/2023 20:45

What I’ve learned - at twice your age - is that the things that are meant for us are EASY. Men, work, locations, friends, everything - easy. Effortless. Smooth-sailing. But when things are wrong, like this probably is, they’re relentlessly hard, confusing, depressing.

Follow the things that feel easy. Not easy as in you can be lazy, but easy as in they make sense and fall into place.

Mycutedog · 29/09/2023 20:58

I would really run a mile from this guy, in all honestly he sounds like a massive nob head and he is doing your self esteem no good at all and it will only get worse. Having kids is insanely stressful, you need a solid partner on board who you can count on to help, don't trap yourself with this selfish, moral free twat. Honestly he is a totally self centred arse who's messing you around. Once you get in touch with your anger about how you have let yourself be treated there will be no stopping you. Then of course he'll come after you and you can tell him to F Off! Yay!

Mycutedog · 29/09/2023 21:00

Also you are unbelievably young. This is not the time to be making compromises. Also fuck society pressures - no-one gives a shit! Or if they do, hang out with the ones who don't.

Butterkist8 · 29/09/2023 21:02

You seem very passive in your own life goals...ie.. you're relying on him.

Rely on yourself.
What do you want?
What do you want to achieve,

Stop following him around the world.
Be yourself.

A man who wants an open relationship doesn't want to settle down.

You deserve more than he could offer.

OspreyLambo · 29/09/2023 21:04

HenryCavillsWife · 29/09/2023 20:45

What I’ve learned - at twice your age - is that the things that are meant for us are EASY. Men, work, locations, friends, everything - easy. Effortless. Smooth-sailing. But when things are wrong, like this probably is, they’re relentlessly hard, confusing, depressing.

Follow the things that feel easy. Not easy as in you can be lazy, but easy as in they make sense and fall into place.

I agree!
Not meaning to be smug or anything. But after I stopped chasing ideas of perfection, and just went with the flow, things became so much easier.
Not saying to always jump in headfirst but if you need to work hard to convince yourself it's probably not that great.

Mycutedog · 29/09/2023 21:08

Also ignore posters who are telling you you are passive ,a drifter etc. I think you have enough self criticism already without everyone else piling in!! You are a cool, arty person who is going to carve out a happy, satisfying life for themselves, and escaping this fuckwit guy is your springboard moment. He won't know what's hit him. Ha!

CliffsofMohair · 29/09/2023 21:21

you described your situation with this man as ‘safe’ which is a really interesting way of describing a life with

unstable visa/job situation
Mr Open Relationship
diminishing savings

what about that is familiar and safe? Stability and having basic needs met entirely on the whim of a sometimes benevolent/sometimes cruel/detached authority figure? You seem to be living the smallest life you can for fear or straying over the boundaries set by someone else.

Echoing the view that a move to the far end of Canada Yukon and a decent therapist might help you explore why you let others set the parameters of your behaviour.

You’re half way there . You’re already questioning.

OspreyLambo · 29/09/2023 21:24

Mycutedog · 29/09/2023 21:08

Also ignore posters who are telling you you are passive ,a drifter etc. I think you have enough self criticism already without everyone else piling in!! You are a cool, arty person who is going to carve out a happy, satisfying life for themselves, and escaping this fuckwit guy is your springboard moment. He won't know what's hit him. Ha!

I don't think drifting and passivity are piling in. It's a valid assessment of OP's behaviour and she herself has noticed it.
And she needs to work out why. Just telling her that 'she's cool' isn't gonna help much.

slopsan · 29/09/2023 21:29

You can work anywhere in your current role.
Your money is worth more in Canada
You are not happy.
Get a map out, choose a part of Canada you have always wanted to go to (Vancouver Island? Newfoundland? Churchill ?) that is far away from Ottawa and book yourself a flight.

Mycutedog · 29/09/2023 21:31

I know what you are saying @OspreyLambo but just thought OP might find it useful to take a different view of herself, one that is probably equally valid and true as what a negative focus might come up with.

beatrix1234 · 29/09/2023 21:41

@4thIRMmeB He knows exactly how I feel, but his position is basically that he needs to pursue the life that fulfills him (abroad & art) without compromise (say, moving back home or getting a steady job) otherwise he'll resent me.

And you my dear need to do the same thing. Stop chasing men, stop moving countries for a man (that never works out by the way). Find yourself first, establish yourself, find a good job with future prospects, something you will enjoy doing and become financially stable. That will help enormously with your mental health issues. If the BF wants to come and join you once you're nested in your happy life good for you, and if he doesn't then feck him. Stop being so accommodating and chasing a man child who is clearly not good for you.

4thIRMmeB · 29/09/2023 21:42

@Feetupteashot he says he doesn't want to resent me (which I guess compromise would lead to for him). Apart of me appreciates his self-knowledge, but it is hard to hear that I'm not worth compromising for. I suppose a good relationship would be one where each party isn't called upon to make huge compromises so often.

OP posts:
Mycutedog · 29/09/2023 21:44

I think how you frame your return to Canada (if you decide to do that) is important. Going back is not a failure , it's a triumph of knowing your own self worth and what you will and won't put up with.

Loopytiles · 29/09/2023 21:50

‘saying they love, want to marry you and have children with you while demanding an open relationship (though never act on it), and moving countries with or without you’

This is very clear cut: the relationship is bad for you.

Mycutedog · 29/09/2023 21:51

'I suppose a good relationship would be one where each party isn't called upon to make huge compromises so often.'. Yep. As far as I can see his behaviour is basically just old fashioned sexism/patriarchy fancied up as 'being true to oneself' or whatever guff he is coming up with. Don't want to be prejudiced/racist but imagine having a possibly macho Spanish background on father's side might contribute to his sense of male entitlement.