Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 9

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to understand the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

Link to old thread

Been pondering this a lot, and the only thing I can compare the experience of meeting DH young(ish) mid 20s, getting married and having kids only for it all to fall apart mid-40s because actually he's autistic and can't live with anyone is. Maybe it's a bit like getting married to someone who is gay and hasn't worked it out at the point that they get married and have kids.

I hope that doesn't sound offensive it's just I know a few people who have been through that experience themselves. So they go along with what society 'expects' of them because they haven't really worked out who they are yet. Then is sort of dawns on them gradually that they aren't cut out for this wife and kids business because it's not compatible with who they are.

That's the best way I can describe my and DH marriage breakdown. Like it's really sad but it's not been intentionally hurtful but there is just a deep, innate incompatability.

That's not to say that some relationships won't work out when there is ASC in the mix. But for my DH he has openly admitted that he cannot live with anyone. Not me. Not our children. No one.

That’s us too. DH has an office so he basically lives in that one room. He’s got all his preciouses in there and a lock on the door.

It’s bizarre behaviour for a man who wanted a family, but I think his need for order and for things to not be moved or even breathed on or looked at beats his ability to, well, not be a massive accusatory dickhead to others.

He had no concept of why putting a lock on the door of a room in a family home sent me into a fury. I explained it to him quite loudly - so his solution was to give me a key.

it would be fascinating if I wasn’t so upset. So, now, I’m not going to be upset. He needs stuff that I don’t, I need stuff he can’t:won’t provide. I either fill the gaps with friends and kids and hobbies, which is possible, or I leave, which I can make possible.

I have a lot to be grateful for - I didn’t work while our kid was ill, there was no way I could hold down my job as he needed a lot of care and the other kids needed a lot of hand holding too. So, that time was a gift, and I am very grateful for the fact that DH paid all the bills during it.

i mean, I did EVERYTHING else, he never came to a single appointment or took a single day off or did a single school pick up or shopping or cleaning or night time or bedside. But I would not have managed at all if I had to work, really, DS would probably have died if I wasn’t able to spend all of my time keeping an eye on him - so it is good for me to reflect that DH’s ability to compartmentalise and steadily keep on at work was a huge benefit to our family during that time.

Hes fine now, DS. The NHS is another blessing.

all this gratitude will fucking choke me, I’m sure of it. I’d grown comfortable with Seething resentment. I’m not sure I can keep zen up for long.

@itsfinallyover I don’t personally feel offended by that. It seems like a very good analogy. I can imagine someone whose DH has come out feels similarly cheated. It’s such a shame. Hopefully with ASD being diagnosed much earlier now, the next generation will have a different experience. I’m so sorry you have had to deal with such a lack of accountability.

it’s not remotely the same but my ex partner discovered he was ASD after 3 years of us living together. He decided he needed to be with someone who didn’t have the emotional needs I have and cleared out our house and left me a note. I was 38 at the time and childless so I felt like because he’d wasted my time I wouldn’t ever be a mum. I then got with DH one year later and we married and had the kids. The kick in the teeth is him also being on the spectrum (we think). I’m really not sure how I missed it. One thing I’m feeling is that he’s deprived me of having my children with someone who can love me in the way I need. I guess I should just be grateful I managed to be mum later in life. I do adore my kids and wouldn’t wish them away. I guess there’s also the chance we’ll benefit from the counselling and be able to carry on.

I’m new here. I’m wondering if this group might be somewhere where I can find some support. I seem to lean on my sister too much and she has her own issues. But I am often bewildered and sad. My DP is ASC but not diagnosed. His DS is on the diagnosis pathway and they are very alike. I don’t want to generalise about all people with ASC. I really just want some support for me for people in a similar position.

My DP seems to suffer (or rather it is me who suffers!) with very low frustration tolerance paired with anger management issues but also difficulties with communicating. He regularly thinks he has made himself clear when he hasn’t. He often repeats back what he thinks he said and I say “no that’s not what you said. If you had said that I would have understood your intentions”. But he refuses to ever accept that he can be mistaken. In his head he has said x and there isn’t a world he can envisage where he might be mistaken. So everything is always everyone else’s fault. And this makes him frustrated as I should understand what he wanted/ what he meant and I don’t. But this must be my fault as he has been completely clear. (Only he isn’t clear. He jumps from
A to C and leaves out B but doesn’t realise). And when he is frustrated he shouts. Or raises his voice at me. And says things (in a loud and angry voice) like “I have already explained this to you!!!” Except he hasn’t. Or he maybe has and I didn’t hear as I am partially deaf. But it doesn’t matter. Or it shouldn’t matter. It should be OK to repeat oneself or explain again. But being asked to do so makes him aggressive and frustrated and speak to me….. well, like shit really.

I try to explain that his manner is upsetting but he gets annoyed and says I’m trying to argue with him. I’m really not. I just want to be spoken to nicely is all. Then he says he’s just being direct and I am too sensitive. Or he raises his voice because I am so deaf. Nothing is ever his fault. He blames me for everythjng including his own not very nice behaviour, and gets so angry over the smallest misunderstandings. I really have tried to say that he would be better to try and be more patient and to explain something if asked. Even if it’s for the second time. (For reference if asked to repeat himself he will often loudly begin by declaring “SECOND TIME…..” I have said that behaviour has to stop as it is awful! He mostly has stopped shouting “second time” at me. But not always).

I don’t know what I am looking for. Perhaps a sense I am not alone. Maybe some tips to deal with his aggression and low frustration tolerance. Or maybe just somewhere to vent a bit as I feel so so sad right now.

Thank you if you read to the end of that!! Please be gentle with me……

@BustyLaRoux ((hugs)) from me.

I can relate to what you describe, esp the saying A and C, without spelling out rage B which makes things not understandable.
ive been known to say to both dh and dc that I’m nit in their heads and they need to tell me.

It’s hard.
But fwiw i don’t think you can make him less angry. That’s something HE has to want to do and work on.
You can tell him the impact his behaviour has on you. You can have boundaries
eg i will not accept you speaking to me like this. I will go to the other room. I will be happy to carry on our conversation once you have cooled down
But he has to chose to change his behaviour.

As an aside, changing behaviour means wanting to modify things and having some insight on what’s going on.
incl for example

• when I feel my shoulders tensing up, I’m about the blow up and probably need some time out.
• i blew up because my cup is empty just now. It’s the end of the day/im hungry/ive just had a tense conversation with so and so. In those circumstances, I need10mins doing A or B to go back onto an even keel.

One of the issue I’ve had is that dh has no insight. Plus he doesn’t see how I could be upset if he isn’t etc….
The result is that things change but VERY slowly. And only when dh is a stress free environment (for us, it has translated to wfh, spending all his weekends doing his own things and having no dcs at home anymore)

It’s difficult. He sometimes does get some insight. Usually when I doggedly persist in explaining why his behaviour has been so unkind. And then he might begin to own it. Which is a starting point. But “owning” to him usually means loudly and aggressively saying “well I should have done that differently and I have just acknowledged that!” and then quickly moving on to tell me how terrible my behaviour has been. He always manages to find a way to make things my fault even when he acknowledges his behaviour has been really crap. It’s like he only accepts it in order to make me accept some blame. He’s utterly obsessed with fault and blame. I’m not saying my behaviour is always perfect of course. It is difficult to “own” your shortcomings when someone is shouting accusations at you and repeating themselves over and over and over, admonishing you like they are an old fashioned headmaster and I am a naughty shameful child. It just makes me feel defensive. He seems to have one mode: aggression! Talking about anything difficult means he gets frustrated immediately and that makes him aggressive. Even when he is apologising for being aggressive, he is quite aggressive!!! And of course once he has deigned to “own” the behaviour I am never permitted to mention it ever again. I just gave him an example of his frequent frustrated and angry response because he has misunderstood something. I gave the example of when we were on holiday and he started shouting at me in the street because I wasn’t making enough of an effort to get my bearings (in a city I had only spent a day in and which he has visited multiple times over the years). But he just exploded at me for raising it. Said I was clearly trying to point score and win an argument as he has already apologised for that. He seems not to get that it doesn’t mean I have forgotten it, and an aggressive roughly delivered apology doesn’t mean the sadness he caused me just goes away. It doesn’t undo what happened. He thinks that’s the end of it and it should never be mentioned again. I’m just trying to illustrate that this getting angry over a small misunderstanding happens to him all the time. That’s one of a hundred examples! I just happened to choose that one but I am spoilt for choice in all honesty. He just sees it all as me being argumentative and spoiling for a fight.

His new tactic when I try and talk to him about how he is upsetting me is to refuse to discuss another word and start shouting at me if I speak. I said this is unreasonable. You can’t shout at someone until they’re silent. If I speak he just shouts louder and louder until I stop speaking. He says because he can see I want to argue. I don’t. I want to talk. I want him to understand he is upsetting me. But he sees this as me being an aggressor and he is just avoiding a row. Note that I don’t raise my voice at all. I am very calm. I say but I just want to talk. I just think you’re being unfair to me. But the shouting starts almost immediately. He told me this evening that he thought this was a perfectly reasonable if robust response to my trying to cause an argument.

He just really reacts badly to any form of perceived criticism. Even if the criticism is actually due because he is being horrible and rude! And like I say he can sometimes see that his behaviour hasn’t been very nice but he thinks barking an apology at me means that’s the end of it and now he can deliver his sermon at me all about my behaviour and how awful it is. And how his behaviour is really just a reaction to MY behaviour. Honestly I don’t know why I’m still here half the time!

Sorry I know that’s ridiculously long. I would like to find a therapist who specialises in couples therapy with ND issues are present. We had counselling but he kind of derailed it. Whenever I tried to talk about his aggressive behaviour he would make it all about my communication and how I’d made HIM feel. Everything about his feelings all the time and how I need to manage his feelings better. But nothing about my feelings! Every single conversation where the counsellor started asking me about how I felt he would just derail and start talking about himself and how he felt. I could sense the counsellor found him rather self focused and would often have to ask him to stop interrupting me and let me speak.

Everything is about him. All the time. I sometimes think he just sees me as a bit part in his play. He even says: “I just need to be managed properly and your job is to manage me the right way!” And when he isn’t very nice he says he is just reacting to me and that he’s told me multiple times that he needs to be managed and I ought to be doing a better job as he has made that very clear to me many many times!

I mean who even says that!!!

I'm sorry that you've had to deal with so much aggression @BustyLaRoux , I totally relate to it and it was ultimately the reason I separated from my H.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter why someone is being unempathetic and aggressive, it matters that they are.

For me the lack of empathy and the flying off the handle were part of the same thing. But ultimately, my H was able to regulate himself at work (I know because he wfh and I could hear him!) yet with his wife and daughters it was a hair trigger temper.

Call it masking or call it emotional regulation, either way in his eyes we weren't deserving of being protected from his moods.

You deserve better @BustyLaRoux

One of the things I did want to ask about, now that I'm a little more established on the thread and hopefully people know I'm genuine and not a troll...

Did others struggle with lack of intimacy? The physical side was a problem with my H since the start of the relationship, long before we married. I guess I'm just looking back at things I ignored.

Yes I do deserve better. But he is also very kind. And does so many nice thoughtful things for me. If I need help with something he is always there. If I need cheering up he knows just what to do. He buys flowers. He cooks. He does jobs round the house. He doesn’t see housework as my job because I am a woman. Which I know is a very low bar, but having been married to someone for 20 years who put all their effort into avoiding doing ANY chores and genuinely saw these things as my job (in addition to my full time job!) chore sharing is close to my heart. We have a fantastic physical relationship. He is very generous in all departments. He is very affectionate. We laugh every day. He is able to laugh at himself and knows he is a plonker. He really does understand me and my own ND issues (I am ADD). So there is a lot to keep me here. I just wish he was nicer and less aggressive when small things irritate him. I wish he wasn’t obsessed with criticism and blame and fault. I wish he didn’t think everything should revolve around him, because even though he is a very giving person it is all on his terms and he finds it hard to give outside of his set parameters.

Intimacy was always a problem for us (me?). It was sort of ok at the beginning, when there was no kids and responsibilities and I could make sure we spent enough time together to feel some connection, but once kids/careers/house happened, there just isn't enough time or inclination for me to put in the large amount of effort it takes for me to feel any closeness or intimacy. There's no easiness between us. No casual affection. No understanding. No closeness.

The physical side of the relationship fizzled as a result. We did have a sex life for a long time, but it was almost like no strings/feelings sex by the end because any intimacy that the sex might have generated evaporated fast once normal (non-communicative) life resumed. We don't have sex any more.

And I really REALLY wish he wouldn’t shout at me. My Dad is actually also ASC and it was a difficult upbringing. He regularly shouts at people. People in shops, me, my DB, his DSis, waiting staff, his friends…. He thinks shouting is a bonafide method of communication and doesn’t bat an eyelid. He can’t read people so doesn’t see how taken aback they are or how upset he’s making them or how rude he is being. He just shouts at them. Consequently I hate shouting. It makes me want to crawl into myself. It is the most upsetting thing. And my DP despises how my Dad treats us all. But his own lack of self awareness means he doesn’t realise he also does this (though granted not to random waiting staff or people in shops!!)

@itsfinallyover we've had problems since the beginning with the physical act i.e. it doesn’t last long. He started taking herbal remedies etc so I felt he was doing something about it. Whenever I tried to talk to him about it he walked away and wouldn’t engage. I guess in the end I felt physical stuff wasn’t too important given our age and previous relationships that were more driven by that side of things ended badly. Now we just don’t do anything. We have young children and rarely end in sleeping in the same bed due to one of us being up in the night. I often wonder what it will be like when we finally get time together. Will I even want to. I know that he does and has made a few comments since my dd was born. He gives me a cuddle sometimes but generally as we’re not being physical at the moment there’s not other sources of intimacy. This is what bothers me. Hugging and touching are important for connection. It just makes our problems worse. At the moment I have too little ones to cuddle but what about when they are grown up!?

How was intimacy difficult in your relationship?

Do you have DC, Busty? Because when he's shouting and blaming and fingerpointing at the DC it becomes much less forgivable in my experience.

Sorry I didn’t see your messages about intimacy! I wasn’t trying to make everything about me and my shizzle!

Intimacy isn’t something we have struggled with but I do know another relationship in my inner circle where this is a real issue. There isn’t any desire on the ND side. Or if there was once then it dried up. The other partner finds this very upsetting and internalises this as it must be their fault. The ND partner finds sex difficult to discuss and doesn’t associate sex with emotions and connection. To them it’s just a physical act. But to the other person it symbolises that they aren’t close.

Sorry to hear that, @Dialledin . Always problems with the physical act (him) since day 1 here.

I actually read a study that said that ED and related issues are highly correlated with ASC and I guess that would make sense. It's a sensory + social act. Just wondered if there was any anecdata here on it, but I notice there is very little mention of that side of things on the thread.

That’s interesting about ED being linked to ASC. I never thought of that connection. As I say not our issue but I can see how that would make sense. Intimacy is so loaded. And so hard to talk about!

Sorry to hear that @UpsideDownside , but also very relatable. I actually can't remember the last time H and I even attempted it.

@itsfinallyover I didn’t realise there’s a correlation. My previous partner was ASD and he was fine in that area. It makes sense that it affect things in that department though.

It’s a challenging thing to deal with. I just feel like I can’t be myself with him. The slightest wrong move and it’s all over. Plus with the lack of connection generally I don’t feel I want to now anyway. I sometimes feel really down as it’s likely I’ll never have normal intimacy again if I stay. If I go I might not meet anyone else so I guess no guarantees.

We're having issues with intimacy also. Previously H didn't really have the feels due to chronic pain condition. He also has issues caused by SSRIs. Now I don't since H breakdown about 5 years ago really. Part of it is clearly peri menopause. But another part of me is unable to reconnect with H. His breakdown happened when I was heavily pregnant my Dad was very ill plus a few other really stressful things and I just couldn't cope w his emotions and built a wall really of self protection. I'm finding aspects of that hard to let go.

At the same time H doesn't want to talk about the emotional fall out. Criticism triggers his rejection sensitivity and he gets lost in his relationship with himself and is unable to see me. He does apologise but in the past I've not found this genuine, now I know about ASD I can see the body language is due to that (no eye contact etc). I like him a lot but the space between us has a lot of baggage.

No intimacy here for years. Not even a genuine cuddle.

Sex has always been crap but as things deteriorated outside the bedroom, I got more and more ill, it stopped. I couldn’t face the crap sex anymore. The effort wasn’t worth it. And dh didn’t even appreciate it.

Cuddles were never his thing. They were always the sign that we were going to have sex. He has no idea what cuddling means or how to connect and create intimacy in that way. It’s another of those ‘why would want to do that? You’re doing nothing. It’s boring.’
A shame because if there is one thing I really crave, it’s someone holding me. Just holding me. No sex. No expectation. Just the intimacy.

Oh yes ED.
Sex had to be silent, no ‘communication’ possible or he would get soft 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

@BustyLaRoux please carry on writing! You’re not hogging the space at all.

I don’t know if that help but nowadays I don’t raise issues with dh.
i learnt that from watching his parents (and him in some ways when he is with them). No discussion. No raised voices.
But I carry on doing whatever I wanted to do (or not doing when I needed dh to take over the cooking).

So if dh was starting to shout, I’d just go out of the room. Maybe I’d tell him something along the lines ‘we’ll talk about it later’. But no explanations. Certainly no emoting at all (he can’t cope with that. Anything I say would then go over his head and hed also get defensive).

ive also learnt that, with him, my actions have more meaning than my words. So me saying I’m exhausted/im in a crash/don’t feel well just bear no meaning. Esp if I then carry on doing the same thing I used to do (which I did for a long time, hoping he’d get the hint 😢). Because if I can carry in doing A or B, surely that means I’m well enough to do them right? No idea about pushing myself (way beyong my own safe limits)
But going to bed for a nap? Not getting up to prepare the meal/put the washing to dry? These are real concrete information that means I’m exhausted. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

That's really interesting re: you noticing how his parents communicate @SpecialMangeTout because it's something I've really noticed lately about H's parents.

I get on fine with them, they are inoffensive. They never, ever talk on an emotional level, though. I mean they can talk about surface irritations like being mail ordered the wrong thing from a shop (in fact this kind of thing forms their core conversation, kind of moaning about traffic and things that haven't gone well and saying things like 'typical' whenever a minor inconvenience occurs).

But there is no emotional depth to their engagement at all. H moved out in December and in laws still came to me for Christmas for the DC sake. I thought it might be awkward them staying at H's house then them all arriving at mine on Christmas Day But....they didn't acknowledge that we had separated. Like, not at all.

Certainly no 'how are you coping with everything?' kind of conversations (e.g. offering emotional support) as they didn't even have the emotional skills to acknowledge the situation had even happened.

Like I say, I have no issue with them but it's astounding to take a step back and see where H got his lack of emotional intelliegence from.