When do you divorce an alcoholic?

[thepinkbed]

Hi wonderful people,
I'm at my wits end and if I'm honest I don't know what to do, needing to brain dump and hoping for advice or understanding.

Been married for 10years, D9 and D6, both working parents and moved to our dream home earlier this year. H set up his own business 2 years ago which I fully support financially as I inherited a decent sum awhile ago.

H has always been the joker and show off of the group socially. Always the first one drinking and the last one drinking, often even when everyone else has finished and he should. Progressively got worse, especially over past few years where he would only be able to go 1 night a week sober. On average have 2 nights a week out at local pubs and come home anytime after midnight totally wasted. The aftermath of this would be nasty snappy behaviour to me and the children. Sleeping in on work days despite working for himself and me doing everything for the children and working full time myself.

A few recent events I've witnessed him fall asleep at important events as he's too drunk and flirt with women at bars, forgetting I was there.

Last month I took him away from the children and arranged time to talk and confront him. He's got himself wasted, alone, before I even arrived which wasn't helpful. We had a very deep convo and I laid it out saying I want him to go sober or I'd leave him. He said he'd try and did put work in. 5 weeks later, and having not had a drink in that time and me just seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, he's come home absolutely plastered. I locked him out in the cold and was so angry. Eventually let him in and he swore at me, saying I'm being ridiculous and not the woman he married.

My children saw me so upset tonight it was hard to keep my feelings inside. Oldest cried thinking that we're going to divorce. I knew he wouldn't be able to stay sober, deep down I know he never will. I don't know why I believe it every time, it's exhausting having anxiety every Friday (or Tuesday or any other night) night worrying about whether he'll be home or stay out. Why aren't my children and I enough to keep him out of the pub?!

I'm at my end. I have no more chances to give. I'm sick of the disrespect, lack of concern and thought. He mumbled to me 'I've only had a bit to drink and I thoroughly enjoyed it'. I don't know what to do, is there any hope of him putting family above drinking? How much is is affecting my daughters and will I be able to shield them from it? Do I separate or divorce him? The house we live in is in both our names (sadly) despite me paying for the whole house, no mortgage without a penny from him. Kicking myself now that I let his name on it.

I'm so sorry for the long, desperate post and thanks so much if you've even read it. I'm just not sure I have strength left....

Hey, sorry you're going through this it must be hard for you all.

My opinion is that it's unlikely that it will end unless he somehow wants to stop himself and change. I've not been married to one but I've seen it in family and it's been that way since I was young and still happening now where they've just carried on, exactly the same.

Asked to stop, told to stop, keeps saying will and knows needs to and promises will in the morning and by the evening just goes out to get more and it's all brushed over to the point wife has given up trying as too old now. That's her lot basically, it's sad but then she never dealt with it or left...there is no recourse now and he knows it.

So, I would say that's no life and you don't want to end up like that, just putting up with it forever and your children shouldn't have to live like that either.

@thepinkbed I am sorry for your dilemma but unfortunately you have 2 choices here. Stay with him as it is. Or leave. He won’t change whilst you are still there. What he will do is minimise and “try” but it will all be a means to and end. He wants to drink. That’s his priority. He enjoys the drink and doesn’t want to change. He will make himself and you believe you are over reacting and unreasonable. The longer you stay the more you are the problem as you are enabling him. You are enabling a man who leaves the childcare to you, flirts with other women whilst you are there and has snappy nasty behaviour to you and your children.

Answering your initial question, on what you've said? I'd say now.

Yes you have young kids. But I grew up as a child of an alcoholic, and as much as my parents tried to hide me from it, it affected me. More than them splitting up would have I think?

They stayed together after me and my sister moved out, but unfortunately my mom also went the same way. My DF died in 2020 fro pneumonia (maybe covid?) but the liver disease is what ended it really.

I resented him so much, my mom could have had a much better life without him, but they stayed together as they thought that was the right thing to do.

His primary relationship is with alcohol.

You and the children come a very distant second. The chances of him turning this around are slim to none.

You need to accept this, and you need to protect you and your children and your finances from him.

Can you afford to hire an accountant and a solicitor to try to get your money back out of the company he is going to run into the ground?

Do you have a house and mortgage? Or rent? Do you own any assets like a rental property? Company car? Business premises?

There is no perfect time to divorce. You just have to decide to take a deep breath and get the ball rolling, then keep on putting one foot in front of the other until you get there.

He definitely can change, but it won’t be easy and he has to want to, which doesn’t seem like the case yet.

In your shoes, I’d get all my financial ducks in a row (consult legal help) and protect everything I could, then I’d tell him to leave as you’re no longer willing to subject yourself or your children to living with an alcoholic.

What he does after that is not in your control. The prospect of losing everything might be enough for him to deal with his problem, but it also might not. He will only quit when HE is ready and you need to protect your children and yourself.

I grew up with one parent as an alcoholic, it went on for years, absolutely ruined my childhood, wish my other parent had left before things got as desperate at they did for us.

Please leave, it's scary/hard/difficult etc but better now than later.

Sorry it really sucks for you 😞 but you can do it, you've got what it takes to get away xx

This was a strange read, as an addict and daughter of an alcoholic, too.

Just take a step back for a second, breathe, and consider a few things:

"Arranged a time to talk and confront him."
-Going on the attack straight off (it doesn't mention other support) doesn't sit right. This is the time to offer the chance to have open discussion as a couple, a time to acknowledge one of you is struggling perhaps more than they realised. Is this depression, a mid-life crisis, is he hiding what he feels or sadness through drinking? This is then when you can discuss therapy, the AA, or a programme you can work through at home, social activities away from drinking etc. He needs help, not attack.

"I want him to go sober or I'd leave him."
Ultimatums are never a good place to put anyone in. Had you even explored the above? Many drink because they feel like a disappointment, or pressure in their lives. This just cranks it up to 11.

"I locked him out in the cold and was so angry. Eventually let him in and he swore at me, saying I'm being ridiculous and not the woman he married."
Yeah... that's uncalled for, honestly. Relapses ARE a known part of recovery. If you are both embarking on recovery, it needs to be a partnership, and you need to learn that. After a relapse you can then make your apologies, assess the triggers, and work together to put better mechanisms in place to prevent that happening again. Within reason, of course - but on his first go he made it to FIVE HOT DARN WEEKS. After barely making it 1 day a week until your ultimatum. He messed up, but man he did try.

Honestly, this whole post seems disappointing because it sounds like you have nothing but resentment for your partner - perhaps, ironically, this is perpetuating the circular issue you are in. Is he escaping to have a good time and relax with friends because it's tense at home? There's no love or warmth in your message, there's no concern for his health.

It sounds sad, loveless, and like both partners are struggling in their own ways.

It doesn't really seem like you want to help him or get your marriage back on track. Also - yes, us children of alcoholics are clued up and go through it. But what is often worse is being made to stay in a home where both parents loathe each other and there's an alcohol problem in the mix.

I've been where you are. The alcohol is the most important thing to him. I left when I realised I was losing myself, my resilience, I was a lesser mother to our DCs because of what he was putting me through. If I stayed longer, I would get worse. He wasn't getting better. Where would that leave our children?

Add to that, I'd realised me and the DCs were happier when he wasn't around (despite the fact they loved him, he brought stress), and I'd realised they weren't always safe with him. He would fall asleep while looking after them, and I suspected hed' driven them after drinking.

I never regretted it for a second.

OP,
I really recommend you join AlAnon or Smart Recovery Friends and Family for support from other people living with someone dependent on alcohol.

The 3 cs are-
You didn't cause it
You can't control it
You can't cure it.

I would say the time to leave is now. His drinking is having a negative impact on you and your children. If you don't leave, you are giving him the signal that the status quo is ok, why would you stay if there was a problem? Therefore, he can tell himself his drinking isn't a problem.

There is a chance by taking decisive action he may realise what he stands to lose and this may prompt him to get help. But that is not definite.

However, just ask yourself, are you happy continuing with the status quo or his drinking getting worse, or starting to affect his health and your life more and more? If not, then now is the time to change.

To a PP who says the OP sounds lacking compassion, it's extremely stressful and can be traumatising to live with the chaos of someone in the throes of addiction and also extremely hurtful- you can feel like you've lost the person you love, which in many ways, you have- as their primary relationship is now with the chosen substance. I'm sure the OP has tried gently suggesting reducing drinking and telling him she loves him, from how she describes the situation. In my own case, that made absolutely no difference to my ex. It's heartbreaking to lose the person you love, but doesn't mean you should spend the rest of your life suffering because of their addiction.

Now. If he thinks you will just live with his sporadic 'trying', then he has no real motivation to quit. And quitting altogether, permanently, is almost certainly the only way.

I would say leave now, and look up the 3 C's. Been there, done this, after 15yrs I got out, me and DC are living our best life now, 3 years later.
Sorry you are going through this 💐

You divorce at the point they have a relationship with something that is waaaaay more important than either you or the kids.

Mine was the moment he was too drunk to make it to the loo and he pissed all over the landing and it went down the stairs. Worst thing was I had an injury so I couldn’t get stuff to clean it up. I kept saying what he needed to get but he was trying to use loo roll. His drinking had been a problem for years but not like this. I lost all respect for him in that moment.
As pp say, he will prioritise alcohol over everything else. Doesn’t sound like he can go cold turkey. You could ask him to seek proper help but you need to be prepared that he may not stop. Regardless, you should be getting your ducks in a row. Solicitors, go to entitledto.com to see if you could get any benefits..
I’ve been separated from XH for almost 2 years, divorced in the spring. He’s still drinking. He sees DD but there’s a distance between them. He’s met someone else who also drinks heavily. I have no regrets.

What the other posters have told you. Al-anon for your own self would be worth calling.

What do you want to teach your DDs about relationships and what are they learning here from both of you?. I could ask similar of you; what did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?. Do not continue to play your parts here in making this dysfunctional relationship your kids norm or model for a relationship. Hopefully they will not go onto choose alcoholics to date and or otherwise be in a relationship with; that is the best outcome for them.

You need to also get off the merry go around that is alcoholism along with acknowledging your parts you have played in it. Like so many such spouses you are his codependent partner, enabler and provoker (because you never forget). Your own recovery from his alcoholism will take a long time, years even, and that recovery has not even started yet because you are still together. Your daughters could well do with support and help from Al-ateen too.

Your H's thoughts centre around drink and where the next drink is going to come from. His primary relationship is with drink, not you and its never been with you either.

I would get legal advice re all aspects of divorce on the quiet and present it to him as a done deal. He will never take you seriously re ultimatums and the like unless you yourself are willing to follow through on any decision made.

I would look at ceasing financially supporting his business too; it could well be the case that without your financial input its barely keeping afloat. Do you have full access to the accounts?.

Having been in a similar situation, I would urge getting out ASAP. Alcoholism is a progressive condition; it will only worsen over time. And even if your husband goes into recovery, that also brings all kinds of challenges and not something that children sound be exposed to. Don't feel guilty; this isn't your fault and you have to put yourself and your DC first. If you stay, it can potentially ruin your life, and have long-term horrific effects on your kids. Once you have left and are rebuilding your life, you will feel so much better.

I went to AlAnon for support, it helped massively.

Thank you so much everyone for spending time to comment. It's been a difficult night. He woke up from the sofa and basically had no remorse or even the realisation as to what had happened and how he'd treated me, his actions or the affects.

My D6 this morning said things like 'just don't drink anything daddy' 'you always say you had one glass but finish the bottle' 'mummy is fed up with you' 'we don't want a drunk man in the house'. He left for work (definitely still drunk) which is so upsetting.

Before he left he was so angry with me and saying 'why have you put these things in the Childrens heads? You're messing them up talking of these things. Can't believe you would allow them to see it and understand'.

I feel so foolish to ever think he could get through to be sober. The past week weeks he's been sober I have been unbelievably supportive. To the person who said I don't sound loving etc. I am! I signed us up for meetings, got an appointment at GP, bought lots of material and listened together. I didn't drink at all myself and didn't have it in the house! Positive words etc. to be relayed in this way is just disrespectful and hurtful and I want it to end.

My parenting over the last 24 hours is shameful and not my normal standard which makes me feel awful.

I will get my financial ducks in a row and calling the solicitor who sorted our house sale out Monday to see if I can put it in my name which will protect me. I'll also look up benefits to me site and research.

H is home from work at 6pm, I'm dreading it. He'll be in the worst mood and I'll be spoken to and treated appallingly I just know it. He'll say he just fell off the wagon and nothing to worry about. He's already text me saying I'm ridiculous and totally overreacting and need to get myself mentally sorted. So tonight will be fun

I have a good friend who went through exactly what you're going through now OP. Her 'D'H was the life and soul of every gathering, someone other men said was 'a great guy', the first at the bar and the last to leave, but from being the 'great fun guy' in his 20s he became a full-blown alcoholic by his 40s.

Long story short, after making her life hell for several years he left her for a younger woman from work who still thought he was great fun (I wonder if she still thinks that now she's wife #2 and they have a baby?). She wasn't the first woman he'd cheated on my friend with, but my friend forgave him the first time, because they had two small DC and she, like you, had sunk a lot more money into their large house than he had and she was really worried he'd get it all and she'd be left a single mum who couldn't afford to buy a house.

Al-Anon saved her sanity. It stopped her blaming herself for all that he had wrought on their family. It gave her friends who'd been where she was and who gave her hope and a road map to get her life back on track. I see you're already planning to consult a solicitor ASAP - good - you're going to need legal advice. But please also join Al-Anon (or the other one mentioned above). You'll need to moral support. Good luck 🍀

So sorry to read about your son's comments to his dad. That's really sad. FWIW, my son was much happier once I left my EXH, did really well at school and it was like a huge burden lifted from both of us. I was definitely a better parent after the split, as I didn't have "that monkey on my back" (as my mum put it) dragging me down. As your kids already have one dysfunctional parent (their father) you'll have to be there much more, and you just can't while you're living with an alcoholic and the associated behaviours/worries/stress.

You probably need to speak to a family law solicitor. If he's an alcoholic, you also need to consider access - my EXH couldn't have overnight stays unless eg visiting family with other adults present. You need to think about eg him driving the kids anywhere as he may well be over the limit. All this sounds scary, but it is all MUCH easier than your current situation.

Sending you a hug and a handhold. I was also horrified by one of the PP comments - I know what you are going through.

@thepinkbed it is NOT your job to fix this man or to “expect” relapses. It sounds like you have given him many chances already. I wouldn’t even consider trying to support someone who doesn’t want to work on their addiction. The part that stands out for me is that he’s not accepting be has a problem. He’s not being able to stick to being sober so he’s now being emotionally manipulative to you. It’s disgusting he is saying you are over reacting and need to get yourself sorted mentally. What the kids are seeing is what he is doing to them, not you.

Look at his actions not his words. How long do you want to spend living your life like this? Don't you and your children deserve better?

I would express concern for his health but stress that you will not be exposing your children to a life like this.
If he is willing to get proper support (residential if you can afford it) you may want to consider staying if he is fully committed to giving up.
He doesn't sound like he is at this stage.
Speaking from experience here.

@Mustardforest I completely disagree with your post. I am a recovering alcoholic and your suggested approach is co-dependency in a nutshell. If an addict doesn't want to stop drinking or using, the family being all nicey-nice and protecting them from the consequences of their own actions is simply enabling them to continue.

OP I am very sorry for you and your children. Please know that you did not cause this and you cannot cure or control his drinking. Alcoholism cannot be cured, he can only get sober for himself and if he stops working actively on his recovery, he will drink again. This man doesn't want to stop drinking.

He has a disease which is not his fault, but it IS his responsibility. He shows no sign of wanting to recover from his disease, so you can only control your own actions and protect your children.

Please know that he does love you and your children, but the disease is in control right now. I love my son beyond measure, but all his pleading with me to stop drinking had no effect. There was no human power that could have stopped me drinking. Thankfully I found AA and that has worked for me - but only when I wanted it enough.

Other posters suggested Al-Anon and I would echo that.

I hate the emotional manipulation, he's so good at that. That's the most hurtful as it's disrespectful and intentional with zero concern for my feelings.

A month ago I arranged for us to go to a meeting together, spoke to someone who helped but he totally refused. Saying he's just not doing that and he'll try on his own. But that's the point he won't get sober on his own, if he refuses help I can't do anything. Then I have to go along on this rollercoaster of him sober for a bit but then crashing down and then we start all over again.

He's definitely fun life and soul of party guy in his 20's and then no 40 and can't handle it and has lost control.

I have put up with so much! He's ruined 2 rooms in our old house with huge vomit and piss stains on carpets from episodes of drinking, he's passed out before in the garden and slept there, he's arrived home in taxis and wet himself and I've had to deal with. He's flirted with other women when we both go out in group situations and thought it's ok to totally humiliate me.

I am terrified to actually go through with the thought of divorce. Mainly as I have recently lost my parents. I've never been close to them growing up and they are the most selfish people you'll ever meet. They decided a few months ago to not contact me and disown me I guess. So they know nothing of what's going on and they couldn't care, no contact for 2 months. So I'm worried I will have no support and have to gather all the strength to do this alone.

I get the impression that this may be more than drinking and I could be wrong but he sounds abusive, emotionally at least.

I'm a guy and I've not long come out of an abusive marriage and at the time I didn't see it for what it was and I tried everything to make it work but it was a psychological warzone. Looking back the good times were short lived and it started six months in but I got trapped, married and had children and it got worse and worse as the years went by and turned physical at times.

Had I known what I know now I would have left years ago and taken my children away, regardless of the fallout but I didn't listen to my gut. Now the opposite has happened and they have taken my children away and I'm fighting for them to keep them safe.

I've come to learn these people are ticking on another level and they will not take responsibility and given the chance they would throw you under the bus to keep that control and avoid responsibility for their own actions.

This drinking though from what I have witnessed in my own life doesn't end and your children, just like mine were are seeing it and making comment. The same as mine, no it must be you poisoning their minds rather than what it is, their own behavior.

You can separate today. You don't owe him the rest of your life watching this car crash.

You don't have to justify it to anyone, it can just be the right decision for you.