When do you divorce an alcoholic?

[thepinkbed]

Hi wonderful people,
I'm at my wits end and if I'm honest I don't know what to do, needing to brain dump and hoping for advice or understanding.

Been married for 10years, D9 and D6, both working parents and moved to our dream home earlier this year. H set up his own business 2 years ago which I fully support financially as I inherited a decent sum awhile ago.

H has always been the joker and show off of the group socially. Always the first one drinking and the last one drinking, often even when everyone else has finished and he should. Progressively got worse, especially over past few years where he would only be able to go 1 night a week sober. On average have 2 nights a week out at local pubs and come home anytime after midnight totally wasted. The aftermath of this would be nasty snappy behaviour to me and the children. Sleeping in on work days despite working for himself and me doing everything for the children and working full time myself.

A few recent events I've witnessed him fall asleep at important events as he's too drunk and flirt with women at bars, forgetting I was there.

Last month I took him away from the children and arranged time to talk and confront him. He's got himself wasted, alone, before I even arrived which wasn't helpful. We had a very deep convo and I laid it out saying I want him to go sober or I'd leave him. He said he'd try and did put work in. 5 weeks later, and having not had a drink in that time and me just seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, he's come home absolutely plastered. I locked him out in the cold and was so angry. Eventually let him in and he swore at me, saying I'm being ridiculous and not the woman he married.

My children saw me so upset tonight it was hard to keep my feelings inside. Oldest cried thinking that we're going to divorce. I knew he wouldn't be able to stay sober, deep down I know he never will. I don't know why I believe it every time, it's exhausting having anxiety every Friday (or Tuesday or any other night) night worrying about whether he'll be home or stay out. Why aren't my children and I enough to keep him out of the pub?!

I'm at my end. I have no more chances to give. I'm sick of the disrespect, lack of concern and thought. He mumbled to me 'I've only had a bit to drink and I thoroughly enjoyed it'. I don't know what to do, is there any hope of him putting family above drinking? How much is is affecting my daughters and will I be able to shield them from it? Do I separate or divorce him? The house we live in is in both our names (sadly) despite me paying for the whole house, no mortgage without a penny from him. Kicking myself now that I let his name on it.

I'm so sorry for the long, desperate post and thanks so much if you've even read it. I'm just not sure I have strength left....

OP, please leave today. Take your children somewhere safe. Don’t stay for more abuse. I am the child of an alcoholic and the anxiety I developed in childhood waiting for his return and the fights with my DM has never left me.

please save your children and leave today. You can organise the legal proceedings from elsewhere.

You sound really unhappy OP and that you have reached the end of the line. That alone is enough for you to separate. Living like this is no life and you can find the strength to do this alone. Don’t worry about the money side. You will find peace for you and your children when you remove this man from your life. We only get one life and yours is not going the way you wanted it to. It’s fine to change direction.

The right time to leave him is now. You need to see a solicitor who does family law, not the one who did your conveyancing.

Get all your paperwork together and take photos/ scans of everything you can find about his business.

Get all the details about money , pensions, savings , assets , debts, cars, properties etc and write it all down . The lawyer and the divorce courts wont care about how badly he’s behaved - the divorce is all about money.

Once your husband realises that you are serious, he may threaten to have the children 50-50. They all say this and very few of them actually do it because basically they don’t want the work. Also your husbands main relationship is with alcohol and not with you or the kids.

please ignore the posters talking about compassion. you’ve tried begging him / helping him to change and it’s got you nowhere . It won’t ever work because he’s not motivated to change .

You now need to have compassion for yourself and your children, put yourselves first for a change and get out . Before any more of their childhood is ruined.

i’m sorry to hear that your parents are so useless, but it does sound as if you have less stress now they are out of your life. Please reach out to trusted friends and colleagues who can support you through this – this isn’t your shame to keep secret.

And please do contact Al-Anon and go along to a meeting . I can’t tell you what a comfort is to talk to other people who know what it’s like to live like this. You need people who understand .

I give maybe 1 chance I'm afraid these days

By that I mean if there's a problem, any problem, I raise it and if they promise to sort it and they don't sort it.. buh byeee.
I'm too jaded to keep being string along by promises that never pan out, so I won't put up that shit no more.

I hate the emotional manipulation, he's so good at that.

Of you can recognise it, you can refuse to allow it to work. When he tries it, just refuse it,
"That isn't going to work this time"

But all this drama, no inwoukdnt put up with it for a day or a week, let alone a month or years.

I'm so sorry, and this on top of the rift with your parents must be overwhelming.

First - he's a drug addict. He's addicted to the physical sensations of drink, and the social and ritual aspects of it, too.

The 'life and soul of the party' in his 20s becomes a distasteful figure as he ages and drink takes him over.

For addicts, their primary relationship is with their drug. They love it more than they love their family.

As they get older they may seek more and more and more to get the buzz, the high, the oblivion. Whether opium, coke, heroin, crack, alcohol, whatever - it's the same.

It is often described as an illness - it's also a choice. And getting help, committing, listening, following through, or not, are also choices.

The implications are huge.

Pissing away family money

Ruining personal and professional reputation (I wonder if his condition was noticed at work?)

Soiling your home, probably leaving you to do the disgusting cleanup

Your children have NOTICED and they understand what he's choosing to do and how he's treating you

Decades of subjecting his system to what is essentially a poison will place him at risk of cancers, liver desease, brain damage - you name it, and you'll be the one stuck caring for him

A drunk angry man is very possibly a danger to your children and yourself

He's potentially a danger to himself and others - falling, crashing his car, getting stuck passed out outside in the middle of winter, falling downstairs - all are possible.

Are you genuinely intending to keep subjecting your children to this? You also do have a choice.

He's now committing DARVO - deny, attack, reversing victim and offender - and gaslighting and insulting you. Remember his lashing out is nonsense - this is not who you are.

We don't know the circumstances of your rift with your family. Is it a permanent done thing, or could there be conversation, understanding, help from them? Do they know the full extent of what's happening? Do you have siblings, friends who could help?

Please take in what women here are telling you about how it felt growing up with an alcoholic and abusive parent

Ideally, the day after you realise there's a problem. The odds of drinkers like your DH (and my ex) turning it around are not in your favour. The typical trajectory tends to be crisis followed by promise of change, followed by period of actual change, followed by general sense of unease (you) and deceit (him), followed by suspicion (you) and gaslighting (him: "it must be my mouth wash you can smell" "It's a headache") followed by crisis, possibly with attempt by you to fix it (make GP apt/call AA) and on and on... Until suddenly a decade has passed which you've spent in an exhausting cycle of hope and disappointment, hypervigilence and dread of occasions other people look forward to.
Ultimately you will either leave, or his health will fail and you may feel trapped by duty not to.
Obviously there are success stories. Some do change. But they really don't need to be married to you to do so, whatever they tell you.
If he's going to stop drinking he can do it as a divorced person and if he does, and you still love each other, you can always get back together.

I've jsut read your update. I am so sorry about your parents, but what you are doing (staying with your husband) is MUCH harder than leaving. You would need more support to stay, not in leaving. Please get to AlAnon, you will find more support there, and from people who have been through it. There are people there who you can call at loads of times, who will hold your hand and walk this path with you. That will help you more than you can know now. To this day, the lady Jean who let me call her at 11pm when I was in the midst of your situation helped beyond words. She left when her teenage kids found her husband passed out in the garden - they begged her to leave.

Their number is 0800 0086 811 - seven years ago, almost to the day, I called them on a Saturday afternoon when I thought I was going under.

Also, that is not a good home environment for the kids. Piss and vomit stains on carpets.

I’m sorry your parents have let you down as well @thepinkbed. You must feel very alone. Please reach out to anyone who will support you and don’t be tempted to cling to DH - he’ll keep letting you down as well.

I was in a very similar situation I filed for divorce one day, I just had enough. Life is so much calmer now. Have you tried Al Anon I found it very helpful to get perspective.

Sort the house and finances and then make him leave.
My father was the same. Life and soul, at parties and social stuff (including feeling up other women, affairs - the whole shebang)
At home, drunken abusive areshole. My mum put up with 51 years of that shit. He's dead now, and I have never forgiven him and do struggle that she made us live through that.
Your children are better off without him. Believe me.

Your parents did you a favour in cutting you out because that saves you doing that task. You do not need nor warrant such selfish and toxic people in your life and they are like your h in many ways too, selfish and self serving. Would you tolerate what they have done to you from a friend?. Likely not.

Your children certainly know more than you give them credit for as well. What your youngest said to you about her dad and his drinking was heartbreaking. There are also no guarantees when it comes to alcoholism. He could go onto lose everything and everyone around him and still choose to drink afterwards.

Rebuild your lives now without your drunkard husband in it. Acknowledge the roles you have played a part in his alcoholism because that is also part of your recovery from his abuses of you all. Deal with any and all issues related to codependency through therapy. You may also want to read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward.

My parents are beyond selfish, they live in their own world and expected far too much from me as a daughter and put so much pressure on me. They are totally unaware of my life and disinterested with me and my world so rather than putting up with the awful messages and mistreatment from them I stood up for myself in a calm way. Then they said they were no longer going to be a part of my life. Tbh I'm not that upset by it as we weren't close to start with and I don't need more pressure and negativity and expectations from anyone at the moment or at all.

I have contacted AI-anon and spoke to a lovely guy crying to him for awhile, poor guy. I will be going to a meeting on Monday locally if I can trust H to look after the kids. Hopefully this is a starting point.

I still have no apology or realisation of what happened last night from H, he's just working and getting on with things as normal. Still convinced I'm overreacting and acting irrationally.

I split from my abusive drunk first husband after 13 years and 3 kids. He was a nasty drunk who started to pick on the kids. That was the kick up the arse I needed. I bided my time, waited for him to come home drunk and hit me. Then I had him arrested and the courts made sure he had to keep away from me. I got the house, I had to pay him £3k (which he spent in ten days) . The relief I felt when he had gone was unbelievable. Kick him out now before he hurts you or the kids

I'm sorry to say that this situation won't improve unless he makes the decision to stop drinking.
From your post he really seems to have no intention of doing so. No amount of nagging or interventions from you is going to stop him.

I'm sorry for your experiences but you appear to be demanding total perfection in how to manage these matters, from a spouse/parent who is clearly at the end of her rope. The problem with alcoholics is everything, eventually is just All About Them. The pandering, the allowances, the walking on eggshells. That is what I read in your summary of OP's attempts to address her alcoholic husbands behaviour. I was married to an alcoholic for many years. I recognise so well the tone and sly emotional demands in your post.

The ideal time to divorce an alky is before you have kids with him, but given that that ship has sailed the second best time is right fucking now before those children are even more damaged. Wait any longer and you run a very real risk that they'll grow up to resent you more than him. Don't ask me how I know.

So glad that you called AlAnon. Sometimes this is the hardest step. I hope you can get to a meeting - can you get a childminder for your kids because a) yes you can't rely on your husband to look after them (been there, done that), and b) the meetings are a safe space and I found them very healing.

I promise you, I got through this and life is much better on the other side. Calm and peaceful, for both me and my son. It will be the same for you. I read an expression somewhere "sometimes you have to jump and your parachute will form behind you".

And yes, speak to a family law solicitor as soon as possible. Are you in Scotland?

@Mustardforest the partners and family members of alcoholics do not exist for the sole purpose of helping the addict.
People with addicts in their lives have their own hopes and dreams. Their own need for peace and happiness. There are tens of thousands of spouses, children and parents out here who are daily sacrificing all of these on the alter of a loved ones addiction.
And the saddest part? Very often their support, kindness, understanding, proactive help..well, it makes absolutely no difference. Because as you know, only the addict can make the change, and will do so when they are ready, be that within the context of family support, or outside if it when at rock bottom.
Living with an alcoholic is heartbreaking and soul destroying and no one should be shamed into continuing to do so any longer than they feel able. They have a life too and deserve to live it in peace.

Also, look after yourself! Make sure you eat (even if you have to force food down), and rest. Reach out for support when you get overwhelmed (Samaritians, AlAnon, mumsnet, your best friend), and never, ever feel that you have to walk this on your own. This stuff is exhausting, so very important to keep eating and practice self-care. PM if you want to. xx

The worry and anxiety never ends. Even when they're sober, you're worrying about the next time they fall off the wagon.
It's hard and exhausting being with an addict.

This.

I am wondering where the love and warmth is for the Op from her husband when he flirted with other women in front of her. When he left her to do all the childcare and housework despite working full time and investing her inheritance into his business.

@pinkbed
Gather your courage
Put your children first
And kick him out
It won't get better
It WILL get worse
From someone who knows this to be true
Good Luck

H is acting like nothing has happened this evening, eating with the children and all fine. He didn't even want to talk once I'd put them to bed. But I made him sit down. He acted like a teenager and said I'd blown everything out of proportion and it was only one night. He very reluctantly said he was sorry but he enjoyed it and deliberately didn't look at his phone all evening when I was desperately calling him.

He's now in the spare room and thinks I've lost my mind. I told him I'm going to a group called AI-anon and explained it, he laughed. I said I am going to get an appointment with solicitor Monday. He stomped off and seemingly wasn't bothered. So that's that.

I have to be strong now, although am running on close to empty. Him thinking I'm crazy and not understanding my feelings and reactions is spurring me on tbh. Although I feel sick and so weak.

Sooner rather than later. My 80 year old aunt is married to an alcoholic, he’s been an alcoholic for many years. Embarrasses her, she can’t go for days out as she’s too scared to leave him alone, he ruins holidays so they’ve given up on those, he refuses to get help, she feels that she has to pick him up off the floor to put him to bed. The worry is that one day she’ll hurt herself helping him. It’s very sad. I think she covers for him a lot. She’s threatened to leave him but she doesn’t.

@thepinkbed I am sorry but not surprised at his response. Well done you though- you've taken important steps for taking charge of your life. It takes a lot of courage to step out of the unhappy chaos of living with an addict. But - take it from me and so many other women on here- it'll be absolutely worth it. It may be tough sorting out the changes but it'll be nothing in comparison to living with an addict. Have you got any friends you can talk to?

One thing I learned through Smart recovery Friends and Family (I did it online) was to stop hiding what I was going through from everyone in my life. I used to be ashamed of my ex husbands drinking like it was my own shame, bad choices etc. I learned that I have no control over it, it wasn't my choice therefore it wasn't my thing to be ashamed of.

I hope you're ok and please hold on to the fact you've done something really brave and positive for yourself and your children already.