To consider divorcing my husband even if he improves and stops abusing me?

[Amgelima]

I grew up in a conservative Christian community where divorced women were shamed and considered damaged goods. When I got married, divorce was one of my biggest fears.

After marriage, my husband became physically, emotionally, verbally, and financially abusive. I did not believe divorce was an option for me and tried in every possible way to have a healthy relationship with him and to create a good marriage. I read books and prayed. He refused counselling and mocked the idea. I was afraid to go alone for fear it would upset him or be disrespectful.

We had three children together. Please don’t judge me for this. I did not believe divorce was an option and it was one of my greatest fears. I tried to believe my marriage could be good and I stayed hopeful.

over time, I matured and observed patterns. I read more relationship books. Including Bancroft (Why Does He Do That?). My eyes were opened to the fact that I was being abused. I had only known about physical abuse, and since my husband had stopped that for the most part after I threatened to call police, I thought it was only a minor part of our marriage. Bancroft’s book changed my perspective. I also read various Christian authors on the topic of abuse in marriage and divorce and changed my position on Divorce.

My husband read in my journal that I was done with our marriage. He threatened suicide if I left him. He started acting kinder. I have started feeling safer. He says he will go to marriage counselling with me as long as the finger isn’t pointed only at him. In my mind, this means he hasn’t really changed or that he still wants to defend his actions. I just don’t think I can put up with this any longer.

but part of me thinks I should stay and keep working on the marriage for the sake of our children. I fear breaking their hearts. I also worry about being lonely and single for the rest of my life as I am now a 43 year old mother of 3 primary school aged kids and it would prob be difficult to find s new partner. I love being married and having a relationship. I love nurturing and caring. Losing my marriage is a devastating loss. But I fear living with this man will destroy me more and more over time. So mulch damage has already been done and he doesn’t want to acknowledge it. He wants to say a quick sorry and then “let’s please not mention that any more, don’t hold it over my head” when I want to talk shout feeling hurt after the years of verbal abuse. There were also horrible instances of abuse ffrom his family - him and them going on holiday with out me, etc., all putting me down together and him joining in or not standing up for me or telling me to see their side when they did/said mean or strange things, etc. Sometimes something reminds me of a horrible experience with him and I just want to talk about it - my attempt to rebuild trust and make sure he has changed. He has allowed some of this which is s huge change. But for the most part he says “when will you be done holding the past against me” and this does not help me to process the past and move forward.

he also still has abusive behaviours and words. He breaks things in our home when he is angry. He yanks the children by their arms or twists ears when he is angry. He chases out eldest upstairs in s threatening way when he misbehaves. I tell him to stop and it makes me panic.

my husband says people just needs to hang in there and I can’t expect him to be perfect. Sometimes he convinces me that he is right and that I am asking for too much and just expecting him to fulfil my fairy tale.

I also worry about what it would be like to be a single mum. I worry about not seeing my children every day if we divorce. I worry about being too tired to care properly for my kids bc they are full on rambunctious. I worry about lonely Christmases and imagine a lonely life. Most of our friends are families and I worry I will lose them. I worry my family won’t understand.

so, mums net, what do you think? For those who have been divorced from abusive partners, was it hard? Was it worth it?

My mum stayed with my verbally abusive dad. I grew up to resent her for that. I always wondered, why couldn't she just rescue us?

You can separate without divorcing. If that makes it easier for you to face.

Thank you so much for each word you wrote here. I was feeling so much guilt and fear about “breaking up the family” - especially when my husband can sometimes create such fun moments for the children and he puts so much thought into it. I read some article that said age 11 is the hardest age and primary school years are the hardest years for children when parents divorce and it gave me pause and made me wonder if I should try and wait until the children were 18 and older, but perhaps that does not apply to cases where there is abuse, which is worse and more damaging than divorce.

Everything you say here makes sense. My husband already reacts to my 8 year old bc my 8 year old sometimes talks back to him. It’s confusing when my husband seems to really invest in trying to learn about parenting - and I have seen him try and make some changes. But it isn’t enough. It’s been years. He hasn’t gone to therapy for himself and his anger issues and I can only imagine this escalating. I am never comfortable or at peace or at rest around this man, and a few times I have also seen my daughter stressed by him as well. She loves him so much when he is Dr Jekyll, but it pained my heart when I saw her at least one time recently under stress due to his bad mood which comes and goes. He also says he is autistic and that this is a reason for him not understanding how to interact or for being abrupt. But it’s presented in such a way that I am supposed to adapt to and accommodate his autism without much reciprocity for my being neurotypical on his part.

I have called my local women’s aid, the Christian charity “Restore”, and am going to see a counsellor on Wednesday this week.

Autism has nothing to do with it. It's an excuse for his bad behaviour. I am neuro diverse, and so is one of my sons. I know others who are. Yes, we have to work harder at emotions and thought patterns. However, it is not an excuse for poor behaviour.

As for the times, he is fun. It is what they call "being happy with crumbs" and "crumbs being enough." It isn't.

Yes, you will get some reaction when you leave from your children, no doubt. It's change. You're the parent. They will probably want daddy at times. You are the parent. They are the children. You lead by example.

Better grumpy young children at an age you can still manage than teens out of control who could go on to carry on the patterns they seen in childhood.

The longer you wait to leave, the harder it is as your mental health gets more damaged. I know from experience. I pass this message on to all I can cos if I can save one family from what we went through, then it's worth it

Ask yourself this? Do you want your son to see his dad as normal as how you treat a woman and child.

The 2nd question is: How would you feel if your daughter grew up to marry a man like your husband? We repeat what we know.

I know that so well as it's what I did. I'm one of the fortunate ones who broke the mould, and my now adult youngsters have gotten to see a stable happy relationship with my 2nd husband.

All mine are happily in relationships, married with children of their own. How? I broke the mould. I got the ongoing help and support I needed, and they did, too. They have all been through uni and have good jobs.

You need to look later on at your childhood too. To be bought up in the strict church you were is not healthy what the church and parents taught you either. It seems as if you lived in fear in childhood as you now live in fear as an adult.

I, too, was bought up in an unhealthy church life too, so I get it.

Restore? I know that christisn charity as we have one where I live. Ours is supported living housing, though

Good on you for what you are doing. Keep us informed of how you are going on. Don't let him know what is happening.

If you feel your strength waning, come back to this thread.

You're no longer alone

Putting the bullying physical violence towards your kids and moods towards your kids and the jekyl and Hyde behaviour to everyone including your kids aside for the minute;

You say you don't want to get rid of him because you don't want to be alone and might not meet someone else.... But if you're with him you're being abused. Stress like that can affect your mental and physical health.

Is living with someone who abuses you truly better than living alone, with your kids coming and going and then grand kids.

It's also unlikely that you'd never meet another partner if you try through eg exercise/running/walking groups, other hobbies etc.

Your choices are - certainty of not being alone, but also certainty of abuse.

Or uncertainty of being alone or not, but with no abuse (because you're not going to end a marriage only to take abuse from another man, so any man you ever into a relationship with will be vetted over at least 2 years, right? And given the heave no if he shows he's an abuser after that).

He doesn't have anger issues.

He has dominance issues. Selfishness issues. Possibly a personality disorder.

Lundy Bancroft's book explains that quite well.

Oh for goodness sake op - you’re being abused and your children are being abused.

I’m a Christian but Jesus preached love - not abuse. If the church, and the fear of stigma, are driving you and your precious children to live with trauma and abuse by this weak cowardly prick of a man then the church is at odds with all that is holy and good. Jesus turned tables in the temple. He saw injustice and got angry. You need to find your anger on behalf of your children if nothing else.

Ultimately people are human first and religious second. He’s an aggressive prick to you and the children and that’s his character. Don’t make excuses for him op. And don’t feel guilt. Walk away and protect your children.

OP my heart goes out to you and your children. You really do need to separate from your husband, he is a danger to all of you!
I am a Christian too, a Roman Catholic and have also had to separate from my husband, and grapple with the feelings and fears of giving up on what is, in Ctholicism, a life-long commitment. However, there are exceptions-adultery, and definitely abuse! Our Lord's 2nd Commandment to us was "Love thy neigbour AS thyself". Not "more than" and deifintely not instead of! I think we as Christians sometimes get confused and think we have to always love others and treat ourselves as if we don't matter and that's going against what Our Lord told us really, isn't it? Because really, His Commanment basically tell us to love ourselves as well as others, and to love ourselves as much as we do others! Please love yourself now enough to remove yourself and your children from this dangerous man! Love your children and protect them with all you have!
You can separate from him with Christian charity; he is in grave sin as a Christian spouse is supposed to see Christ in their spouse! Would he shout at Christ, would he push Christ,would he throw scissors at Christ? He is refusing to see Christ in you and that is grave sin. St. Paul tells Christian married men "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loves the Church". Christ, did not bully, abuse, push nor throw scissors at the Church i.e. His followers, which includes all of us Christians! Considering all this, the best form of Christian love you can show your husband now is to give him consequences for his grave sins against you and the children you share and that is to separate from him> This is primarily to prevent him from sinning against you any further, and against God, and then because it may well be the catalyst that proplells him to repentance, and the salvation of his soul, which as it is is in grave danger of eternal damnation, because he is breaking the 5th Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill". This commandment is not just against murder, but against all forms of unjust violence, emotional as well as physical, and all abuse is a form of violence in that even if it doesn't kill life, kills the victims liveliness! Remember Christ came to give us life, and to give us life abundantly! Your husband is sucking the life out of you and your children, as all abusers do to their victims!
When you and your children are safe, you can show him Christian charity by praying for him to repent and for his salvation, but only God knows if he ever will or not!
Hand your husband over to God and love your self, your children AND Christ by acting for your greatest welfare and safety! Avail yourself of as many resources as you can; Women's Aid, the Freedom Programme and online communities of women who understand and care, like MN can be. Listen and cat on the very sound advise you're getting on here, so many of us have gone through it or are still trying to navigate it and we get it! I just thought I'd reach out with a Christian perspective, as I too am having to deal with the failure of my marriage because my husband had stopped loving me like Christ loves the Church, and I had no choice but to separate from him!
May God bless and keep you and your children OP, I'll remember you in my prayers!

I'm a Catholic too. If one can show enough evidence that your spouse never intended to be faithful, to stay until death parts you or is not open to children, we can petition for an annulment, which does leave us free to marry in the Church. It used to be very difficult and expensive, which made it off-limits to many, or probably most Catholics. Now the process has been simplified and made free of charge and it's a mercy, especially to Catholics who would have been unjustly condemned to a life alone or trapped in a marriage with a cheat or abandoner just because they didn't have plenty of money!

Your intuition/gut instinct is warning you that this man could well be a threat to your life OP so PLEASE, PLEASE take your children and get away from him!
It's horrible and mind-boggling when we start to get horrific thoughts about what the man we married might do to us, but I have come to believe that we really do need to take them seriously! Firstly, because as a Christian I truly believe it can be the Holy Spirit (or our Guardian angel on instruction from Him) warning us and secondly, because so much research has shown how frighteningly accurate the intuitions and gut instincts of women in abuse and any form of unsafe marriage/partnership can be! So in this matter, science and Faith align!
Please, for the love of God OP, gather up your children and leave him!

I've made my husband leave because he cheated and was passive-aggresively emotionally abusing me and I am lonely now, sometimes soul-crushingly so! This is because I became so isolated, I have no friends here and only my adult son for family, and he is great support but works and has his own life to live as well. As it is a well-documented tactic of abusers to isolate their victims, the fear of loneliness is very debilitating and for valid reason! Also, abusers are rarely horrible to their victims ALL the time-read up on the cycle of abuse- and usually give just enough affection, love etc., to keep their victim hooked-in, at least until they have another one lined up and are ready to discard them!
One often does end up very alone after separating from an abusers, because they've engineered it that way, often subtly and over a long period of time, so the victim often barely notices it happening until it's too late. They're a "boiling frog".
You are correct that it is better, or at least, not as bad, to be alone and lonely than it is to be abused. One might spend most or all of one's time alone, with no company , no one to chat to, no one to to turn to, or at least most of your time. However, one does start to gain a sense of inner peace that one hasn't had for a long time. I do feel I am beginning to feel the peace of mind that he'd stolen from me, at the very least, because he's not living here, causing that level chaos, anxiety and pain to me anymore!

So many things are labelled "culture " which is a made up set of rules by men to do as they please.

My husband seems to sense that I feel wilted inside and a bit withdrawn from him. We have talked about the marriage problems before, and last night he said he just sensed that I am already gone and he thinks I want to leave him.

I explained that there is still so much pain for the years he verbally abused me (and still sometimes does) and the physical violence (breaking things, shoving me once time, throwing things at me, being rough with the kids). He also had a weird relationship with his sister where he prioritised her at times when a spouse would normally be the priority - we had discussed this prior to marriage, and he knowingly broke promises that he made before marriage once we were married and continued to choose her instead of protecting our marriage (eg, she was single and had no kids, and she wanted a bbq to be hosted at our house on mother’s day when husband and I had two small children. I said I did not want to host a bbq on Mother’s Day and my husband went with what my SIL wanted and tried to convince me it was all my fault due to my lack of planning when I had in fact found brunch options). He has also left me suddenly in various places - a public park at dusk while we were running together, and he once dropped me at a stranger’s house to look at furniture which he had initiated and located - and drove off instead of waiting for me, and was unreachable by text or phone for a good while while I was stranded. Then there is the relentless criticism, lecturing me that the things I do aren’t good enough (eg, where I choose to store the coffee mugs in the kitchen, whether I remember to brush the children’s teeth every time).

For years, he put off any kind of joint bank account. I had to ask him for grocery money once I stopped working. I often went down to just change in my account. He would say this was my fault for not speaking up about needing more. But it was all so stressful to ask him.

Even this morning, when I got up early to meet my running partner, I felt anxious that he would be upset. He shows annoyance at my running with her just 2-3 times per week. If I mention it the night before, he gets upset and says it is too last minute - even though most of the time, my running affects no one and he is still asleep when I return. He says this is his undiagnosed autism and he likes to know and doesn’t like last minute schedule changes.

He has made some changes in personal growth, but he has broken several things over the past couple of months. Has banged his fist on the table when angry at our son during homework. I don’t feel safe with him. I am jumpy and stressed.

He asked me to go for a long walk the other day. I didn’t want to go. He tried to kiss me. I didn’t really feel like kissing him. He could tell. I just feel so wilted inside.

The biggest discouragement has been telling him I need to feel safe in our home and I need him to be willing to have a stable mood - to get therapy or wherever it takes. He told me he just doesn’t think he has the skills. I asked if he feels motivated to get the skills and to work on it. He said he won’t answer bc I have said my trust is broken and “so why should I believe him?”

I have said I would need to talk about the past hurts for a while to rebuild trust. He says this feels like me being unforgiving and holding the past against him. He says it feels like I am on a witch hunt and if we have counselling it needs to be equitable and I need work on forgiving.

I guess I still bring up the past bc I don’t feel like he gets it. I don’t feel like he appreciates the gravity of how much it hurt when he put his sisters demands above our marriage time and time again, or when he criticised me for so many years and still sometimes does. He shamed me regularly in front of his family as a new mother. Asking aloud “did you bring this? Did you forget that? How do other mothers do it?” I can forgive him, but to feel safe in this marriage, to repair, I need to know he sees the damage and will change.

I just don’t know. Part of me wants to keep trying. Part of me says if he still doesn’t get this and is still digging his heels in, then we can’t do it. I wonder if he loves me enough to do the work. I can’t make him change, and he seems to find me unreasonable.

He seems sad, but almost resigned to things not working rather than wanting to make it work. I told him how broken I felt in our marriage and what I needed to feel safe. He gave my hand a squeeze and said thank you for telling him. He also just seems to think I want the impossible from him, like I want him to be perfect and he just doesn’t have what it takes.

Feel incredibly sorry for your bairns tbh. Stuck in the middle of all of that.

You can work on your marriage living apart. Where the kids aren't being abused by their dad poor little buggers

i think part of what makes all of this so hard is that the kids love him so much and he plays with them and is happy to see them so much of the time. The large part of all I have described is directed at me and behind closed doors which is why maybe I have a false sense that the kids don’t fully see the picture or that their life feels secure and happy bc the have parents who read to them, a good school, food, clothes, a back garden with loads of play equipment their dad has built for them etc. I don’t doubt he loves them. BUT - as I have described there are times when his bad moods do show up for the children - his losing his patience during homework, etc. It’s helpful that you are getting me to think about this bc it is easily to get caught up in the marriage itself. I think Bancroft even talks about that. When I talk to my husband about my concerns he starts to convince me that he isn’t so bad and that I’m just wanting him to be perfect and I feel like I am being unreasonable or that I am a problem myself and unwilling to look at my blind spots etc. bc that is what my husband seems to see.

I am also worried. Terribly worried, about how we will all survive and adjust to divorce, and whether I will be able to handle being a divorced mum in a far away country.

I think you need to be clear that his last behaviours still occur and are abusive and hurtful. There is forgiveness and there is putting yourself through the risk of more daily - 2 different things.

He is so manipulative. It's disgusting.
He is victim-blaming you and refusing to take any accountability for his own behaviour.
If you don't feel safe with him (and you have the choice not to stay), how do you think your children feel when they have no choice as to where they live?

Listen to this podcast, it explains very well that autism is not an excuse for abusive behaviour.
https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/4-autism-or-narcissism/id1613030538?i=1000555915615

"i think part of what makes all of this so hard is that the kids love him so much"
Trust me (been there), they don't know any better, poor things.

"The large part of all I have described is directed at me and behind closed doors which is why maybe I have a false sense that the kids don’t fully see the picture or that their life feels secure and happy"
Again, trust me. They see.

"I don’t doubt he loves them. BUT - as I have described there are times when his bad moods do show up for the children - his losing his patience during homework, etc."
He probably does think he loves them. My narcissist "mother" thinks she loves me. But your children will be traumatised from his completely inappropriate, violent, reaction to things normal kids do. It is abuse.

"When I talk to my husband about my concerns he starts to convince me that he isn’t so bad and that I’m just wanting him to be perfect and I feel like I am being unreasonable"
Read up on gaslighting.

For goodness sake do not stay with this man who is abusing and frightening you and your children just because you think the church might not approve. What business is it of theirs? If they were truly Christian (as defined by being caring) in their outlook they would want you out of there. Put the church view aside - your responsibility is to safeguard your children. A lot of harm is done by adhering to strict religious doctrines. Above all else you need to put your children first.

Are you not in the UK?

Children love their parents despite abuse. It’s a complicated thing, but it’s always true.

another thing that is almost universally true is that as the children get older, the abuse directed towards them will get worse. They will get harder to control and that will make the abuser feel the need to respond.

you have the power to give the children a peaceful sanctuary for most of their time and to teach them how a positive, healthy household operates.

leaving will not be a mistake and your children will be happier. Change is scary, but living with an abuser is worse.

If you are smart, you'll leave. When you do, you'll discover that no one brands a big red DIVORCEE mark on your forehead and that the judgement is your own internalised abuse.

And you'll be fine.

First things first, your DH is not a Christian. Christians (like any decent folk) don't abuse their wives. Your DH is horribly abusive. I was really shocked reading about some of the ways he's treated you. This is far, far, far from normal. And it's far, far, far, from a loving and healthy relationship.

Secondly, any good people, Christian, or not, will not judge you for leaving an abusive marriage. I was attending an Anglicah church regualrly when I divorced my DH. Noone batted an eyelid. Because anyone who is a decent person, anyone who loves you, anyone who wants what's best for you, would not want you to live with an abuser.

Thirdly, even if anyone judges you - so what? What matters more to you - you and your children being happy and safe, or the opinions of some people on the periphery of your life? Is your children's wellbeing less important than your vicar's opinion?

Your children rely on you to look after and protect them. You are the centre of their world. Any judgemental people (if they exist around you) will quickly move on to judging someone else while think they themselevs are perfect. Their opinion doesn't matter.

I believe in God like you. I believe that God wants us to be happy and safe. He doesn't condone abuse. He doesn't want us to live in fear.

You really need to get away from that horribly abusive man. (And no, if he changes you still can't stay with him because it will only be temporary, until he's got you back under control again. Think about it - if can NOT be abusive, why has he chosen to be abusive to you all these years?).

This!