To consider divorcing my husband even if he improves and stops abusing me?

[Amgelima]

I grew up in a conservative Christian community where divorced women were shamed and considered damaged goods. When I got married, divorce was one of my biggest fears.

After marriage, my husband became physically, emotionally, verbally, and financially abusive. I did not believe divorce was an option for me and tried in every possible way to have a healthy relationship with him and to create a good marriage. I read books and prayed. He refused counselling and mocked the idea. I was afraid to go alone for fear it would upset him or be disrespectful.

We had three children together. Please don’t judge me for this. I did not believe divorce was an option and it was one of my greatest fears. I tried to believe my marriage could be good and I stayed hopeful.

over time, I matured and observed patterns. I read more relationship books. Including Bancroft (Why Does He Do That?). My eyes were opened to the fact that I was being abused. I had only known about physical abuse, and since my husband had stopped that for the most part after I threatened to call police, I thought it was only a minor part of our marriage. Bancroft’s book changed my perspective. I also read various Christian authors on the topic of abuse in marriage and divorce and changed my position on Divorce.

My husband read in my journal that I was done with our marriage. He threatened suicide if I left him. He started acting kinder. I have started feeling safer. He says he will go to marriage counselling with me as long as the finger isn’t pointed only at him. In my mind, this means he hasn’t really changed or that he still wants to defend his actions. I just don’t think I can put up with this any longer.

but part of me thinks I should stay and keep working on the marriage for the sake of our children. I fear breaking their hearts. I also worry about being lonely and single for the rest of my life as I am now a 43 year old mother of 3 primary school aged kids and it would prob be difficult to find s new partner. I love being married and having a relationship. I love nurturing and caring. Losing my marriage is a devastating loss. But I fear living with this man will destroy me more and more over time. So mulch damage has already been done and he doesn’t want to acknowledge it. He wants to say a quick sorry and then “let’s please not mention that any more, don’t hold it over my head” when I want to talk shout feeling hurt after the years of verbal abuse. There were also horrible instances of abuse ffrom his family - him and them going on holiday with out me, etc., all putting me down together and him joining in or not standing up for me or telling me to see their side when they did/said mean or strange things, etc. Sometimes something reminds me of a horrible experience with him and I just want to talk about it - my attempt to rebuild trust and make sure he has changed. He has allowed some of this which is s huge change. But for the most part he says “when will you be done holding the past against me” and this does not help me to process the past and move forward.

he also still has abusive behaviours and words. He breaks things in our home when he is angry. He yanks the children by their arms or twists ears when he is angry. He chases out eldest upstairs in s threatening way when he misbehaves. I tell him to stop and it makes me panic.

my husband says people just needs to hang in there and I can’t expect him to be perfect. Sometimes he convinces me that he is right and that I am asking for too much and just expecting him to fulfil my fairy tale.

I also worry about what it would be like to be a single mum. I worry about not seeing my children every day if we divorce. I worry about being too tired to care properly for my kids bc they are full on rambunctious. I worry about lonely Christmases and imagine a lonely life. Most of our friends are families and I worry I will lose them. I worry my family won’t understand.

so, mums net, what do you think? For those who have been divorced from abusive partners, was it hard? Was it worth it?

my husband also wants to move far away. He gets bored being in once place.

Is it really that OP, or does he just like to keep you socially isolated and dependent on him?

It won't get better.

He's a really nasty piece of work.

He should have the finger pointed at him because he is a foul man. He's abusing you all.

You should leave. Leave for your safety and your sanity.

Please. He will escalate his behaviour to retain control.

See a solicitor.

Tell people about what he has done.

'Mum never intervened and would say that the kids will grow up and leave her but that dad wouldn’t so she stood by him'

That's absolutely horrifying. I'm so sorry. It's such a myth that parents always put their children first and would do anything to keep them safe, happy, healthy etc. Most parents do but by no means all

OP, don't be one of those parents who minimises the impact of violence and abuse on their own children because of their own needs

Please don't use Christianity as a reason to stay OP.
You and your children sound in danger. You don't have to live this way.

Oh OP. He is an abuser and when the chips seem to be down for him he comes up with excuses and compromises for his abusing because he will never stop and you will eventually be ground down under his foot.

How can I say this without it sounding like a mantra ? I will try. It Is Only One Life and you only get one chance to get it right really. You must leave him for the sake of you and the children.

I did and have never looked back. My children know it was the right thing to do and they are grown up now. They ask me why did I marry him and I say because at the time he was nice. His abusing escalated over time and life was unbearable for all.
Leave him

He's still abusing op threatening to kill himself and is manipulating you by being kind when you know what's coming.

Men like him don't change.

Put yourself and your children first and leave this arsehole.

Christianity is not the reason to stay. You are not a bad christian for leaving an abusive bellend.

@Amgelima do remember that your children are learning about relationships from you and him. Do you want them to think what they are witnessing is normal?

Thank you!! I see it as my responsibility to keep my children safe. They cannot protect themselves. I know this is right. When I am exhausted from the marriage problems and abuse and I think he is being kinder to them than to me and that they seem to be enjoying him most of the time, it is easy to not see these issues as clearly. But I have to see this. I am going to get counselling for myself so that I can stay on track with this reality and not get into the fog. It’s like I come up for air and see clearly - then start to become sedated after a few conversations with him. I become reassured. But the pattern has gone on long enough. Even when we have days where he is consistently nice, I am reminding myself that that’s not going to last. The next microwave or light switch is going to be punched by him again. Etc.

I am a single parent, knackered and sometimes lonely. And SO much happier than I was in an abusive relationship. As are my children.

It's the old lobster in the pot, isn't it? You gradually lose sight of what a normal respectful relationship looks like, and twist yourself in knots trying to save the unsaveable. It's such a relief to finally walk away.

Incidentally, as a child I had first a father then a stepfather who were abusive. The very worst lesson for children. Yours deserve better.

'I am going to get counselling for myself so that I can stay on track with this reality and not get into the fog'

Yes! Excellent idea given your experience in your marriage and your traumatic experiences in your childhood. Do not tell him anything about it

I was in an abusive relationship and we broke up because of it. However, we got back together and I wrote him a letter with a list of conditions that he had to stick to eg no longer doing certain things that made me feel scared, he had to have anger management.

He was on his best behaviour for a while. He did have counselling but I don't think he talked about anger there. He temporarily stopped doing most of the bad stuff.

However, we then had to move as our landlord sold our flat. Almost overnight, as soon as we were signed up in a new place for at least year, and he knew it would be hard logistically for me to leave, he went back to his old ways but much worse.

I just wanted to share as I think they can make the right noises and rein in the worst but it's always there, just waiting in the background.

It was such a relief when I finally left! And much easier than I thought it would be.

OP, I'm so sorry that you're going through this. As a fellow Christian, I can assure you that we are not called to stay in abusive marriages 💞💐
It isn't biblical at all:

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” (Ephesians 5:25-31)

You may find this helpful too
www.gotquestions.org/emotional-abuse.html

I think your children will probably be happier when nobody is physically harming them.

Your husband has shown you over a prolonged period who he is. It's perfectly OK for you to dislike that person. He hasn't changed, he is maintaining a status quo.

You'll be far less lonely with freedom.

He has twisted your children's ears? I'm sorry but that is shocking abuse. If my husband even dared to think about doing that to my children, he feet wouldn't touch the ground on his way out the door. Forget your church and your reputation and protect your children 🙄🙄 your children do not need this man and they will be relieved to not have to tread on eggshells every day to keep him happy. Deep down they are probably terrified of him.

He is horrific. Don't underestimate the damage that is being done to your children. I grew up in a violent home and still get terrified by angry men. In my case it was an alcoholic father and a narc "mother" who blamed everything on him, she was always the victim. In recent years I have realised she had a responsibility to protect me but didn't.

Your husband waited until you were married before showing his true self, knowing that you would have had a horror of divorce. He waited until you were trapped, how disgusting.

He is only being "kind" to you when he thinks he might lose you. He cannot sustain this behaviour and will use anything he can to prevent this happening, verbal abuse, physical abuse, suicide threats (if he does this call the police, don't let him get away with this meaningless threat). He is not a bit sorry, he refuses to look into his own behaviour. So he cannot change. To change requires honest self-reflection and he will not do that. So for something to change you need to do something different.

He allows himself not to be perfect but everyone else must be. He is physically abusing your poor children who of course aren't perfect. Building a bloody fort is never going to make up for his abuse.

He now wants to move you away (again?) to make sure you don't build up a support network. Do not agree to this. In fact please start telling people. Abuse thrives in secrecy. I would also suggest you try to record some of his abuse.

You are so traumatised and conditioned that you are minimising this, which is unfortunately common. I was over 50 before I realised, with the help of a therapist, how horrifically abusive my childhood was. Do you want this for your children? Then you need to change something. Call Women's Aid, I think you'll be surprised at how strongly they feel about what you're going through.

From the Women's Aid website - abuse can include:

• Destructive criticism and verbal abuse: shouting; mocking; accusing; name calling; verbally threatening.
• Pressure tactics: sulking; threatening to withhold money, disconnecting the phone and internet, taking away or destroying your mobile, tablet or laptop, taking the car away, taking the children away; threatening to report you to the police, social services or the mental health team unless you comply with his demands; threatening or attempting self-harm and suicide; withholding or pressuring you to use drugs or other substances; lying to your friends and family about you; telling you that you have no choice in any decisions.
• Disrespect: persistently putting you down in front of other people; not listening or responding when you talk; interrupting your telephone calls; taking money from your purse without asking; refusing to help with childcare or housework.
• Breaking trust: lying to you; withholding information from you; being jealous; having other relationships; breaking promises and shared agreements.
• Isolation: monitoring or blocking your phone calls, e-mails and social media accounts, telling you where you can and cannot go; preventing you from seeing friends and relatives; shutting you in the house.
• Harassment: following you; checking up on you; not allowing you any privacy (for example, opening your mail, going through your laptop, tablet or mobile), repeatedly checking to see who has phoned you; embarrassing you in public; accompanying you everywhere you go.
• Threats: making angry gestures; using physical size to intimidate; shouting you down; destroying your possessions; breaking things; punching walls; wielding a knife or a gun; threatening to kill or harm you and the children; threatening to kill or harm family pets; threats of suicide.
• Sexual violence: using force, threats or intimidation to make you perform sexual acts; having sex with you when you don’t want it; forcing you to look at pornographic material; constant pressure and harassment into having sex when you don’t want to, forcing you to have sex with other people; any degrading treatment related to your sexuality or to whether you are lesbian, bisexual or heterosexual.
• Physical violence: punching; slapping; hitting; biting; pinching; kicking; pulling hair out; pushing; shoving; burning; strangling, pinning you down, holding you by the neck, restraining you.
• Denial: saying the abuse doesn’t happen; saying you caused the abuse; saying you wind him up; saying he can’t control his anger; being publicly gentle and patient; crying and begging for forgiveness; saying it will never happen again.

I'm not a Christian, but I can see that your faith is very important to you.

Would you rather be part of a church that would prefer that a woman stay married to an abuser, or to find a church that will encourage a woman to be safe and supported?

In the unlikely event that your church is described by the former, I'm sure you can find a safe haven in another church that has more progressive views.

You need to put yourself first. Demonstrating what a happy life can be is the best thing you can do for your children.

Hi there OP,

We hope you're ok. We can see that you've been given lots of useful advice on this thread but we wanted to post a link to our Domestic Abuse Webguide, too, in case there were any further links there that might be of help. We're also going to move this thread over to our Relationships topic, where there are lots of women always on hand to give advice in situations like this.

I'm a Christian from a church that doesn't believe in divorce (Catholic).

I would never have left my husband. He left us and, honestly, it is one of the best things that has ever happened to me.

Yes, there are negatives. There is judgement within the Church (from people who don't actually understand the doctrine). There is judgement from people who assume that, as a middle-aged divorcée, I'm out to steal their partners. It is much harder financially and there have been some difficult decisions to make.

But all this pales in comparison to the freedom. It is amazing.

I don't have all of the same fears as you, because I knew from the beginning that I never wanted to be in a romantic relationship again so I wasn't bothered about meeting someone else. And my family have been very supportive.

But there's enough similarities in our stories. And I wouldn't go back for the world. Being a single parent is a million times better than being married to my ex. Better for my mental and physical health, better for my faith, better for my future plans. And very clearly better for the children, although they still have contact with him.

I wouldn't break up a Christian marriage lightly. But sometimes you need to. Domestic violence is not ok within marriage, whatever the religion. The Church agrees.

your husband is a threat to your children - are your church friends really worth wellbeing of your children?

Get out, get out, PLEASE get out. Forget the church. For your babies, and for yourself, get out. Your babies are more important than anything. It can be very difficult to leave an abusive relationship, I know myself it's not that simple. But take the leap, ring women's aid, do the freedom programme and get a new life with your kids.

Never married here. However I had a bad relationship.
Was leaving hard? yes, very
Was leaving worth it? Without a doubt, oh yes.

9 months down the line now and I can count innumerable good differences.

Regarding the religious beliefs. Abuse and cheating are among the reason your marriage can be broken by the church law at least in the Catholic church. I wouldn't think other Christian faith are much different.

Don't stay just because of faith.

I know it will take a lot of strength + courage, but I think you know the current situation cannot carry on.
Having counselling by yourself will enable you to rake over the past + get beyond its hurt. Its likely he doesn't want to go over history because he doesn't like to analyse his own behaviour. He sounds very emotionally immature to take his anger + emotions out on others. He likely does not see anything wrong in this behaviour, probably copying how his own family members behave.
It is not OK to treat others this way. It will rub off on your kids. They may seem to love it when he is being "fun" dad, but they already know he can turn into "angry" dad. (I bet he turns when he is bored of the effort of the game.) Subconsiously, they are likely on edge + wary of him switching. They may even have learnt to over-emphasise how much they love fun dad as a way to try to keep him being nice.
My husband was similar acting but always stopped + walked away before his anger went physical. After incidents, I tried to say something but he deflected saying I was a nag + always negative on him. Occasionally some would go in + he'd shifts his behaviour a little. But it would always be fake + after a while he'd revert back. I was scared of joint counselling in case he bullied + gaslit me, or sulked afterwards. Amazingly, during a time he was depressed, I managed to get my husband to see a counsellor alone. I was so hopeful that he would start to see his own behaviour. He stopped going after a few weeks +said didn't feel he was getting anything from it. I realised my husband didn't properly engage because fundementally he does not see his behaviour as wrong + has no desire to improve. Your husbands view about joint counselling suggest to me he doesn't want to engage fully. I doubt he sees any need to change himself + is just agreeing in the short term to shut you up.

What were your parents like when you were growing up? Good people (Christian or anything) aren't abusive.

You should divorce him ESPECIALLY if he “improves” and stops abusing you.
Because that proves it was a choice. He CHOOSES to abuse you.
You can choose not to accept that.

But my husband is arguably better than my dad and I supposed that is why it is harder for me to see

Your bar has been set far too low because of this.

my husband also wants to move far away

Don't do it. It will prevent you from feeling settled and able to leave and make contacts.

But he is chronically depressed and negative towards me, chronically dumping his bad emotional baggage onto me. He keeps me so busy dealing with him and I feel it distracts me from good parenting

Your husband is neurotic and therefore it's a bit like trying to look after and soothe an additional child who has the ability to seriously injure you.

even though everything in my body keeps telling me my husband is not safe and is scary

Listen to this feeling and recognise that you deserve someone who will reward, not punish your caring and nurturing personality. Don't listen to the Church if they're telling you to stay - they don't have to live with him and I don't think it's safe for you or your children to stay.

I bet if you spoke to the kids of a lot of abusive parents, they might recall a few occassions when their parents was nice to them....but it was very much on the parent's terms and the rest of the time the kids lived in fear. People don't always have personality traits that makes sense either, and that's confusing, but you can't ignore danger because of that.

Remember - Hitler was apparently nice to animals and his pets.