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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Counsellor taking husband's side

93 replies

howmanytimes34 · 19/09/2023 10:30

We are having marriage counselling, at my husband's insistence.

The first few sessions went ok, I had low expectations but she seemed to understand that we were there for different reason (he wants her to fix our marriage, I want her to help him understand it is over, due to his long history of treating me and the kids really badly)

But the session yesterday was horrendous - she seems to have taken his side, the whole time was just him saying how upset he was that I had suggested leaving, and her sympathising with him.

In the session I felt really stressed and guilty and sort of under attack, but now I'm angry.

I'm tempted to go the next session and say how I feel, but is it worth it? Should I just not bother?

Somehow, he is now the victim and I am the perpetrator?? It is so unfair!

OP posts:
ThelmaBorden · 19/09/2023 15:31

Whattodowithit88 · 19/09/2023 15:09

Well maybe it’s high time you start sticking up for yourself then! Stop trying to please everyone else and justify to everyone else and please yourself. That’s the problem nowadays, women aren’t selfish enough!! They’re told being selfish is wrong on all levels….seems perfectly fine when men and children do it though, they get away with it all the time. Women need to do it just as much and learn that themselves are just as important as others in their family, they are not at the bottom of the pile.

excellent post !

If you always give yourself the chipped plate
(as you don’t want anyone else more worthy than you to have it)
after a while anyone else setting the table or dishing out the meal
will also give it to you.
Break the plate -

OP please listen to these wise women.

TeaMistress · 19/09/2023 15:31

You don't need his permission or that of a therapist to initiate divorce proceedings. If you have already spelled it out to him that you no longer wish to be married that's all there is to it. I would dispense with the therapist and get on with filing for divorce.

steppemum · 19/09/2023 15:32

AcrossthePond55 · 19/09/2023 15:27

He kept saying "I need how manytimes to tell me it's not over and that she'll give me another chance, I can't cope if she doesn't" and the counsellor just looked at me as if i was supposed to give him the assurance he wanted.

@howmanytimes34

Are you 100% positive she wasn't giving you your chance to say "That's not going to happen?".

I was thinking this, that was the opening to say - no, I can;t say that, I want to leave.

But that boat has sailed

I know for some couples counselling can help them to split up well if you see what I mean, but as others have said, it is never advised when one person is abusive.

Perhaps take back control by writing down something simple for him, and for the counsellor. Nothing that gives him a handle, somethign like:

"counselling isn't working for me. I had hoped it would help us to communicate better, but that is not working for me. For me the marriage is over and I am going to leave. I will not be coming to any further sessions."

once you are out, get yourself some one to one counselling

Catsafterme · 19/09/2023 15:34

Counseling or mediation doesn't work with abusive people. Abusers can never take criticism, blame or responsibility for their behavior or actions that's how it works. They will DARVO every time and even more manipulative if they are narcissistic with it.

They play the victim act exceptionally well and can fool others who only see them for short periods. You're being triangulated and made to be the unreasonable, crazy one and that's how the dynamic always has to be.

The only time you can trap one is with evidence and proof of contradictions in their narrative and at that point, third parties see how illogical it is while they try and desperately find an excuse and lie so much it's obvious.

I mean you could do that if you wanted to get one over but that may pour fuel on the fire. I wouldn't bother going again, especially if your mind is made up.

This is about what you want not him.

ThelmaBorden · 19/09/2023 15:35

CitizenofMoronia · 19/09/2023 12:08

"He will never concede I have grounds to leave and will remain outraged forever, I was just grasping at straws that he might grudgingly accept it is over"

But you don't need grounds to leave, it's not the 1960's if you want to leave just leave.
I had an ex that spent 2 years wanting a REASON I ended the relationship because HE hadn't DONE anything, as though my happiness wasn't enough reason to have ended things.

Your last paragraph had some resonance here - at the end I had a long list
of things he hadn’t done - this phenomenon is called The Sins of Omission

saffronsoup · 19/09/2023 15:35

You both have your own biased deluded version of events and likely both want the other to LISTEN and UNDERSTAND MY point of view.

He doesn't think you get him and you don't think he gets you. You think he is the bad guy, he thinks you are the bad guy. He wants to fix it, you don't.

A counsellor isn't a mumnetter. They don't abandon all critical thinking and just say oh you are a woman so you are always 100% well intentioned and right and he is a man so he is obviously an abusive asshole who has never had anything but bad intentions. Just because that gets reinforced on here doesn't mean anyone else is just going to agree with you and your black and white view and sexist ideas.

NotObligedToArgueWithStrangers · 19/09/2023 15:42

saffronsoup · 19/09/2023 15:35

You both have your own biased deluded version of events and likely both want the other to LISTEN and UNDERSTAND MY point of view.

He doesn't think you get him and you don't think he gets you. You think he is the bad guy, he thinks you are the bad guy. He wants to fix it, you don't.

A counsellor isn't a mumnetter. They don't abandon all critical thinking and just say oh you are a woman so you are always 100% well intentioned and right and he is a man so he is obviously an abusive asshole who has never had anything but bad intentions. Just because that gets reinforced on here doesn't mean anyone else is just going to agree with you and your black and white view and sexist ideas.

Are you ok? You sound very cross.

ThelmaBorden · 19/09/2023 15:45

howmanytimes34 · 19/09/2023 10:30

We are having marriage counselling, at my husband's insistence.

The first few sessions went ok, I had low expectations but she seemed to understand that we were there for different reason (he wants her to fix our marriage, I want her to help him understand it is over, due to his long history of treating me and the kids really badly)

But the session yesterday was horrendous - she seems to have taken his side, the whole time was just him saying how upset he was that I had suggested leaving, and her sympathising with him.

In the session I felt really stressed and guilty and sort of under attack, but now I'm angry.

I'm tempted to go the next session and say how I feel, but is it worth it? Should I just not bother?

Somehow, he is now the victim and I am the perpetrator?? It is so unfair!

‘Uncoupling’ - turning points in Intimate Relationships, Diane Vaughan,
Amazon paperback £4.29, saved my sanity,

eg, a snippet,
**
husband “ I came home from work to a note saying she had gone -
I had no idea she was unhappy

wife - I have been telling him for years
*
I recommend this for anyone attempting to make sense of their situation
which they perhaps view as unique

SheilaFentiman · 19/09/2023 15:46

Has the counsellor done an individual session with you both?

saffronsoup · 19/09/2023 15:49

NotObligedToArgueWithStrangers · 19/09/2023 15:42

Are you ok? You sound very cross.

Show quote history

Not cross in the least. Not being a bandwagon sexist being doesn't make me cross! Op capitalized words - was just reflecting that.

I would say all those who spend their time on here name calling and trashing and hating men are far crosser than I am!

LoveMyHome · 19/09/2023 15:59

OP, I had a couple counselling with my ex many times over a great many years. When it was female therapy they always sided with him. I eventually insisted on going to a male therapist who (surprise surprise) didn't side with him, and he promptly aborted therapy, and divorced me!

It was the best decision of my life.

Afterwards, I learned that it is a common problem with abusers, and that they can easily sweet-talk a therapist, and that is why people are told never to go to couple therapy with an abuser. Or narcissist. But I didn't recognise he was either of those things until he was gone and I was free and I could see clearly.

swimlyn · 19/09/2023 16:00

“She said she thought I was confusing his confidence for control, which is so ridiculous I want to laugh”

I think “You’re welcome to him then!” would be a good answer to that.

Over many decades I’ve met many counsellors. Very few of them seemed totally professional. One or two of them were desperate to share details of their private sessions. Horrible.

I think we should all face the fact that some people can be useless at their jobs, but still keep their jobs.

Begsthequestion · 19/09/2023 16:04

swimlyn · 19/09/2023 16:00

“She said she thought I was confusing his confidence for control, which is so ridiculous I want to laugh”

I think “You’re welcome to him then!” would be a good answer to that.

Over many decades I’ve met many counsellors. Very few of them seemed totally professional. One or two of them were desperate to share details of their private sessions. Horrible.

I think we should all face the fact that some people can be useless at their jobs, but still keep their jobs.

Too true. I'm all for therapy, but I've also met at least one therapist who was himself a domestic abuser. I can't see how he could be good at his job.

RedHelenB · 19/09/2023 16:05

Jeffreybubblesbombom · 19/09/2023 10:58

Why are you wasting your time having counselling if you want to leave him?
Use your time making plans to leave.
We once went and my ex husband lied his way through every session and the counsellor believed him.
He could charm the birds off a tree.
Just leave and have peace of mind and be happier.

This

Ohambassador · 19/09/2023 16:06

🤔 my ex thought the same

so we changed

what a surprise. He thought the second one was also siding with me!

TheLurpackYears · 19/09/2023 16:10

As above, you don't need permission to divorce him. He's a nasty bully and you want to leave the relationship. I've had similarly bad experiences in couples counselling there won't be a breakthrough, they will continue to gaslight you.

jeaux90 · 19/09/2023 16:13

OP you are going to have to grit your teeth and get on with the divorce. You don't need his agreement or permission.

My DP had a split similar to yours.
The only thing that made any of it ok was when she found someone new to be with. This was after months of counselling to try and get her to accept the situation.

You are delaying your happiness.
Quit the counselling, you can go to the next session, say this isn't working for me, I want a divorce and there is no point talking about it anymore.

Nicole1111 · 19/09/2023 16:14

If there is any kind of domestic abuse in a relationship you should not be engaging in couple’s counselling. This is for many reasons but this bit feels most relevant to your experience.

Counsellor taking husband's side
bemorebernard · 19/09/2023 16:19

If there is a power imbalance I don't think counselling together is a good idea . My ex and I went after he had treated me really badly , like inhumanly after a termination for medical reasons

He said something so ludicrous that the counsellor said "whoah hang on a minute " and told him he was wrong , he just started crying and refused to go back . So that was the end of that. Bully's don't like having to be heard .

I wouldn't waste any more time .

Ohambassador · 19/09/2023 16:20

This is weird OP

i am on your other thread about how some people are being really supportive in your divorce and others aren’t

why are you wasting your time on counselling! Youre both telling family and friends that you’re divorcing!

ittakes2 · 19/09/2023 16:22

I think you need to be aware of the long game - a very good way for him to get his head around you leaving is for him to express his emotions, get some sympathy so he feels validated and then he processes them. And then he can think more clearly and be aware that you don't want to be with him so will accept that. Therapy needs people to process emotions - he can't process them unless he expresses them. It sounds to me that she is not on anyone's side but just following a process.

Original poster
howmanytimes34 · 19/09/2023 16:25

@saffronsoup

You are a woman so you are always 100% well intentioned and right

I don't think this at all. I think marriage is compromise, and there are two sides to every story.

But I have very good reasons for wanting to leave my husband, and have two young children to consider. I thought counselling might be worth a try to make things less unpleasant for us all as we try to navigate the split.

My experience yesterday, and the advice on here, is helping me to see that in fact it is only making it worse.

It's pandering to his delusions, dragging the whole process out and probably making it worse in the long run.

OP posts:
beatrix1234 · 19/09/2023 16:27

@howmanytimes34 I'm tempted to go the next session and say how I feel, but is it worth it? Should I just not bother?

Yep, spit it out, word for word. Do not be silenced.

LightSpeeds · 19/09/2023 16:28

littleripper · 19/09/2023 13:11

This happened to me, it was Relate and it was absolutely horrendous how she behaved.
DH and I have actually worked it out things for ourselves and he now feels that the so called counsellor was a bully and expressed internalised misogyny.
Appalling.

Yes, I had a bad experience with Relate too (it was a long time ago). I was pregnant and not feeling well so my then partner attended a few sessions by himself to start with. Enough for the counsellor to decide that everything was my fault and she was a real cow to me when I did show up. It was terrible and even my partner agreed that she'd given me a bad time. Needless to say we stopped going.

I like to think that all counsellors are unbiased and professional, but actually I don't think they are.

Original poster
howmanytimes34 · 19/09/2023 16:34

@Ohambassador

Fair question

I am telling people we are separating but that I have agreed to counselling to try to make the split as non-horrific as possible.

Most people are very supportive of my decision to leave, a few others have disappeared from my life (not taking his side, just vanished)

He has told people that I want to leave him but that he is doing everything he can to stop that, including counselling

I see now that my agreeing to go to counselling is only making it worse

OP posts: