Rant: I’m Naive for not expecting strip clubs

[Hooplahooping]

I’m wondering if I’m going to be able to find my adult respect for him again. My husband and I have had our rocky patches, but I think with therapy we have been muddling our way through.

he’s due to join some old friends for a weekend in New York in a couple of weeks. People I know, whose wives I know well. I asked about the itinerary and he talked through the games they were going to watch, the golf and then said. And I know the guys will want to end up in some seedy bars.

I expressed explicitly that I am not ok with strip clubs. This isn’t news to him. I’ve been explicitly not ok with them in the past when they’ve been discussed re: stag dos etc

he then got really angry - said that when I agreed to him going for the weekend I had tacitly agreed to it. That I am being wilfully naive + that I have put HIM in an impossible situation. That that just what guys do.

This isn’t a stag do. It’s a bunch of 40yr old men. If I wasn’t furious with him I’d be embarrassed for them. Urgh.

and doubly urgh that he’s flipped this on me.

I know it’s not ok. I’ve got the most awful ick about how transparent and pathetic the redirected rage was. I haven’t decided what I’m going to do about it all - I just need to vent.

I don't have to be someone who does something disagree with but to tell them they can't do it is controlling

It not justifiable because a women says it so it must be OK

But if you tell them "you can do this - because I'm not controlling - but I won't remain with you if you do".... well, that is in effect controlling!

Being controlling is generally a bad thing, but when people are taking it to ridiculous lengths when they're suggesting that the OP is controlling here.

If your DP said "I'm going to beat up that old lady over there for shits and giggles", technically you'd be being controlling if you said "no, you mustn't do that".... but you'd obviously be in the right. Being controlling isn't always wrong in every context!

You’re 40 and still don’t understand some people have different boundaries to you and that that’s ok? Not all men do this, and all women certainly don’t seeing as male strip clubs are a very rare thing.

Controlling? Ok, so if he objects to OP getting drunk and inviting a man back to their place to strip off and dance for her, he would be controlling, yes?

Women are allowed boundaries.

That's gross. You shouldn't need to have to tell him not to do that.

Stick to your boundaries OP. This would be a hard line for me and DH knows that. Thankfully he has zero interest.

For context, DH is just back from a week away abroad with his friends for their joint 40th birthdays. They had an amazing time, and didn't even go to a club, never mind a strip club.

As an adult I can also decree that I don't want to share my life with the sort of man that is OK with strip clubs. We have a daughter and he wouldn't want her to perform in front of men so why is ok for someone else's daughter?
I would leave my DH if he did this as it would show that we have totally different moral compasses.

I find it so depressing that there are people who think that buying women is fine if you're not in a relationship. That the only issue is "cheating"

The bar for men is so incredibly low.

I never get these threads where people come on with the whole ' you are sooooo controlling, you can't tell him what to do' shite

There is controlling and there is respecting your partners boundaries. VERY different things.
Of course I cannot say to my dp 'you are not ALLOWED to go in a strip club'. But I can let him know my feelings on that if he was to go in a strip club it would essentially disgust me, I would feel differently about him and it would have serious consequences, such as an actual end, to our relationship.
He can then choose what would be more important to him. My feelings on the matter or his need and 'male right' to go to a strip club and act like a sleezy old fart.
He doesn't have to agree with me. He can think i'm the most unreasonable person on the planet. But as my partner and the person he says he wants to be with, he does need to listen to my feelings and take that on board if he wishes to be in a relationship with me.

And that works both ways.
If my DP had some weird hatred for red nail polish and hated me wearing red nail polish to the point it really turned him off me, would make him feel disrespected and asked if I could not wear it because of his strong feelings around it.
You know what I wouldn't do? Run upstairs and put on some fucking red nail polish!
I might think its totally batty, ridiculous and cannot understand what his problem is around it, but that all irrelevant. He has told me how he feels on it and thats then up to me if I decide his feelings are more valid than me just 'doing what I want'.
I mean if he just said 'you can't wear that' Thats controlling. Theres no reason to it other than to control the other person. But explaining why it would upset him so much is when it becomes a boundary the other person needs to know about.
Its not controlling. Its expressing a boundary. Howver unreasonable the boundary may seem to the other person, the fact its expressed as a dealbreaker means they need to accept it or say they can't accept it and move on.
Its called having respect for your partner.

And FYI, expecting your other half to NOT go to a sex club is not an unreasonable boundary to have in place.

Yeah, I live in NYC and wanted to jump on this. I've been to many seedy bars here in my time and none of them have had strippers. In fact the strip clubs here tend to be $$$$$ and in very fancy areas - two of the most famous are on the Upper East Side and in Chelsea.

HOWEVER that's another issue because they are absolutely bonkers expensive and he'll be spending/wasting a lot of family money there, which would really, really piss me off.

Honestly, there are many, many ways to get your kicks in NYC without involving strippers. Going to a strip club seems a bit...pathetic? If he wants to see boobs, they can go to House of Yes club night in Brooklyn.

Im all for the OP having a preference, and totally understand her response to his frankly awful attitude in response to it, but as an ex lap dancer can we please not assume everyone involved in the industry is being exploited?! Its incredibly othering from people who have never worked in such places. As is the assumption touching etc is a given.

The fact that he's such a beta, and couldn't say from the start; "it's not for me, I'll see you the next day/afterward" and weather any ribbing and criticism that came from that ... . And even worse is now trying to manipulate you into going along with it so he doesn't have to take a stand... Is a turn off.
Either that or he actually wants the eyeful/lap dances.
Agree with this.

Any man with a backbone would have no problem saying to his friend "(insert activity/visit/bar) isn't for me, I'll see you later".

Either he's a weak and pathetic man who is still playing sheep in his 40s or he really wants to frequent strip clubs, is going to do it anyway, and will probably find a way to DARVO it so that he presents himself as the victim of a controlling spouse.

So presumably, if he thinks going to strip clubs is acceptable, your H would be happy with you hiring a few male escorts to come to the house whilst he's in NYC, so you and your friends can enjoy their company?

If he says no, then he's the one being "incredibly naive", because the reality is, women don't generally have to pay for sexual attention from men. So what you could do is save your cash, go online dating and get some of the 20 &30 somethings that approach you on there to pop round whilst he's away.

The fact that he has to pay for sexual attention from women would give me an even greater ick.

He's so desperate to get a half naked woman to flirt with him that he's prepared to pay for it, but he wouldn't be happy with a half naked man flirting with you, even if it was free would he?

Twat.

Please understand the difference between a lapdancer and an escort, they are not analogous. Just use a male strip club as a comparator.

I'm often suprised how MN often gets down to discussing if a boundary is good or not. There are strong opinions on both sides. Fundamentally, it doesn't really matter whether the majority agree or disagree on a boundary. Everyone is different, all relationships are different.

The question is how YOU feel about it is the important thing. If it makes you unhappy then that is a perfectly valid thing to feel. It then comes down to a conversation as to whether it's a deal breaker or not.

You feel what you feel, irrespective of whether anyone else is OK or not with it.

I solemnly promise I have absolutely nothing against dancers / strippers etc. workers gotta work.

There is an industry behind and around strip clubs that is incompatible with the boundaries of my jointly-agreed-to-be-monogamous relationship though.

People can have whatever boundaries they like. Ideally they can have them without being arseholes to other people.

and they should definitely bring any decision to deviate from those agreed expectations to the senate floor - rather than bitching about not being ‘allowed’ like a petulant child…

Funnily enough I had my girlfriend send me a video of her in a go go bar in Thailand, where she was with a Shemale who was twerking with her. I guess we've just got different boundaries to other folks but she looked like she was having fun, I know she wouldn't cheat on me and so I was happy for her. I don't know why I should be jealous ?

But, as I say, you feel what you feel. Doesn't matter if the boundary is widely accepted as valid or not. If you feel it, you feel it, and it's about trying to navigate that.

Quite. It’s easy to get bogged down in the semantics of moral objectivity (guilty, often!). Morality is not objective.

what is objective is that if two people have a an agreed basic code of behaviour - then its only fair to discuss anything outside of that like an adult - ‘on the senate floor’

on reflection - my huge ick about the whole thing, is the petulant reaction. And the fact that he kept using the terms ‘allowed’ and ‘in trouble’

I am not his mother, him trying to cast me in that role is the opposite of attractive.

Funnily enough I had my girlfriend send me a video of her in a go go bar in Thailand, where she was with a Shemale who was twerking with her. I guess we've just got different boundaries to other folks but she looked like she was having fun, I know she wouldn't cheat on me and so I was happy for her. I don't know why I should be jealous ?

Is your gf's sexual orientation that of sexual & romantic attraction to trans women?

Good to know this! I am going to get myself a hot OM and when H tells me not to go out and shag him, I’ll tell him he’s controlling me and he’s too fuck right off!

*on reflection - my huge ick about the whole thing, is the petulant reaction. And the fact that he kept using the terms ‘allowed’ and ‘in trouble’

I am not his mother, him trying to cast me in that role is the opposite of attractive.*

There's that.

Then there's the fact he seems to be aware of your boundary on this before now (a perfectly reasonable one) but has ignored it, and tried to present you with a fair accompli and kicked off because you're sticking to your boundary.

Why were the other men even under the impression he'd join them in the first place, given he knows your boundary?

Cause he's got no backbone?
Cause he thought he'd just trample over it?
Cause he thought he'd do it by the back door and manipulate you into accepting it?

His mates also sound like creeps and shit partners.

I suspect there's an element of it, somewhere along the line, otherwise she probably wouldn't have done it and been so excited about the experience? Last time we went out for dinner a trans woman swapped numbers with her, chatted her up, which my gf was very proud of.

i don’t assume touching is a given, but so many women have bought the line that there’s never contact and don’t actually know the reality. They don’t think about the actual scenario of an aroused man being brought to climax by a naked women rubbing their genitals on them - it’s like they think the strippers dance on a stage, keep their thong on and it’s a backdrop to a night that’s otherwise like being in a pub and it just isn’t.

I don’t think all strippers are exploited, but some are, and I know some definitely do allow touching and I’m guessing you wouldn’t disagree that’s the case.

OP you might already be aware of this, but from what I understand, the strip club industry is extremely close, if not often just a cover, for prostitution. First they start off dancing and then some, in order to be competitive, start offering hand jobs or blow jobs and then it can lead from there.

I wouldn't make it a red line in a relationship. He's going to do what he wants anyway and probably feed you a lie afterward based on what he knows you want to hear.

Rather, I would just say "I'd rather you didn't but it's up to you" and leave it at that.

That way, you're more likely to know out what actually happens and can decide what you do from there based on what he chose to do.

This is probably what I'd do for most things in relationships rather than "red lines". Gets the real colours out of people quicker I reckon.

Bit late for that now, though.