Rant: I’m Naive for not expecting strip clubs

[Hooplahooping]

I’m wondering if I’m going to be able to find my adult respect for him again. My husband and I have had our rocky patches, but I think with therapy we have been muddling our way through.

he’s due to join some old friends for a weekend in New York in a couple of weeks. People I know, whose wives I know well. I asked about the itinerary and he talked through the games they were going to watch, the golf and then said. And I know the guys will want to end up in some seedy bars.

I expressed explicitly that I am not ok with strip clubs. This isn’t news to him. I’ve been explicitly not ok with them in the past when they’ve been discussed re: stag dos etc

he then got really angry - said that when I agreed to him going for the weekend I had tacitly agreed to it. That I am being wilfully naive + that I have put HIM in an impossible situation. That that just what guys do.

This isn’t a stag do. It’s a bunch of 40yr old men. If I wasn’t furious with him I’d be embarrassed for them. Urgh.

and doubly urgh that he’s flipped this on me.

I know it’s not ok. I’ve got the most awful ick about how transparent and pathetic the redirected rage was. I haven’t decided what I’m going to do about it all - I just need to vent.

You're right. It's not just assumed. My DH is 42, his friends are around the same age, I couldn't imagine many of them in a strip club. DH wouldn't set foot in one.

It's not normal for decent men to go to strip joints whether they have wives/girlfriends or not. Decent men don't condone the exploitation of women.

It all sounds incredibly grim.

New York City? Is there anything else going on that night in the city he could attend instead, perhaps with some of his buddies who may not want to go to the strip club but don't have the balls to announce it? Sporting event, concert, some alternative where the dancing girls are wearing more clothes?

All of these things are excellent suggestions. It’s not exactly a rig town with nothing else to do…

I fear that if I start making alternative plans for him I’m getting a bit out of my lane. If he has a hope in hell of me being able to let go of the ick he’s going to have to find his spine and work it out on his own!

I have expressed my opinion clearly. It’s his job to be a grown up and decide where his priorities lie.

It's clear that he's very angry and wound up at the prospect of telling the other guys - or the ring leaders - that he won't be joining the group in the strip club/s ... That accounts for his outburst at you.

He doesn't want to do that because that would make him, in his eyes and presumably theirs; hen pecked, under the thumb etc etc.

That's why he's so pissed off you're making an issue of it, as he sees it, and he's stuck between going in and dealing with your unhappiness; and having to say he's not going in; which will no doubt result in ribbing beyond ribbing, and isolation and low status within the group.

This is where we ladies should understand that we can cook their dinners, wash their clothes, clean their house, contribute half or more of the household income, bear their children, care for their children, bring whatever assets we have or gain into the household, be their emotional support person, be their plus one, help them support their family etc etc

But when it comes to their status in their group of men; our happiness and respect towards us is lower priority.

To be honest the fact he ‘wants’ to go would be enough to turn me off him.’

My DH has been to stag weekends where the majority have gone to strip clubs and he’s gone back to the hotel. It’s not a big deal being able to say ‘not my bag - see you in the morning’ and if he’s not able to then he’s not worth being with.

Anyway; I think he's going to lie to you and go in anyway.

Any man with a backbone and confident within himself etc would not have let the others assume he was going into strip clubs in the first place (since you said he knows it's a line for you), and not gotten as incensed and accusatory and gas lighty/minimising/normalising .. when you expressed your line again, and he realised you were not going to accept it happily.

The fact that he's such a beta, and couldn't say from the start; "it's not for me, I'll see you the next day/afterward" and weather any ribbing and criticism that came from that ... . And even worse is now trying to manipulate you into going along with it so he doesn't have to take a stand... Is a turn off.
Either that or he actually wants the eyeful/lap dances.

But I'd guess it's more he hasn't got the bollocks to separate from them and take the fallout; and it's too important to him to be a full part of the group at all times and have their approval/fit in with them.

In general - what standards have this group got, for this to be a default part of their (not even stag do) city break?

When they all have wives/partners, and presumably kids.

In their 40s means some of the strippers will be young enough to almost be their daughters.

The mentality they have is worrying in general.

Toxic masculinity, sleaziness, entitlement, use of the sex industry..... And I bet none of them would be all chilled if their wives were doing the equivalent with hung male strippers.

They remind me of a bunch of 50 and 60 something grandads I know who were fucking (probably trafficked) South American young women in brothels on golfing trips to Spain & Portugal.

Their wives probably thought they were long past that sort of thing or actually had morals and wouldn't do it

The type of men whose first thought on trips away from their families is "where can I find some young tits and ass to look at/use" is not exactly good partner material.

Also, let's face it, by the time men end up in strip clubs (usually not something they do before a few drinks) they're usually drunk. And in that state someone could slip.away or announce their plans to go somewhere else/back to the accommodation and act on them quite quickly, without getting too much opposition from men who are drunk and set on going in themselves. He would need to work out his transport beforehand but that's all. They always use safety in numbers and not walking around potentially rough areas they don't know as an excuse; but it could be gotten around easily by pre arranging transport and/or recruiting whoever else doesn't want to go in and sticking together.

He is an adult. It is his decision what bars he goes to on holiday. Would you be happy with him dictating what you do on holiday.
A group of middle aged men going to a strip club is a far cry from him running off with another woman.

i'm 40 been married 21 years and in all honesty i really couldn't give a damn if he went to a strip club. sorry i just don't understand the whole forbidding it. men do these things. women do these things. Not all of them are weird or sleazy it's just fun.

If my partner said "I don't want you to go to that restaurant" or "I don't want you to do that (harmless) activity" then that would be controlling and I wouldn't be happy.

If he said "I don't want you to go to that place for a sexual thrill" or "I don't want you to do cocaine" then that would be fine by me.

Context is important.

What do you think happens at a strip club @jolaylasofia

I think there’s this naive idea men sit, watch, don’t touch and ‘have a laugh’

It’s not like seeing the Chippendales (which is also grim AF) - it’s aroused men having women’s bare genitalia rubbed against them.

And I know the guys will want to end up in some seedy bars
I've been in some fairly seedy bars in NYC but they haven't been strip clubs. Are you sure that is what he means?

I think you misunderstand me. I am not his mother, I wouldn’t ‘forbid’ anything.

I have nothing against strippers. Workers gotta work.

I expressed to my husband, the co participant in our financial + organisational life, in a measured / not raised voice - that I felt didn’t feel ok with strip clubs being a ‘given’ part of a trip.

he then lost his mind because I was being unreasonable, putting emotional pressure on him and changing my mind when he was already committed. That I was being ‘wilfully naive’.

That’s not how adults interact. Although strip clubs are really not something I’m comfortable with - it’s the flipping out, the attempt to make it my issue - that’s actually bothering me the most.

(Although I used to work in finance in the city - Strip clubs are very very varied. coke and enough tips means they are very often not the burlesque fun that people like to imagine…)

I am grossed out.

his turn of phrase was deliberately ambiguous - I made sure to clarify that!

I’m not dictating anything.

If I was going away and he expressed discomfort with a chosen activity, I’d be sure to give it due consideration and talk it through with him respectfully though.

Would you be happy with him dictating what you do on holiday.

If her holiday involved going into the equivalent of a lap dancing club and having a naked bloke swing his dick around, and rub and grind on her, he'd have a reason not be ok with it.

(And I say that as someone who's been in the equivalent of a lap dancing club (Lap Attack, now closed) and had a male stripper wrap his dick around my wrist, rub between the legs before I could stop him etc etc.)

I was in there to demonstrate to my partner why this is not appropriate behaviour in a monogamous relationship - in either direction, and he certainly got the message.

(He had been in on a stag, if he'd gone in not on a stag, I'd just have finished the relationship).

A group of middle aged men going to a strip club is a far cry from him running off with another woman

Lol, I got this.

"It's not a threat to your relationship".

Actually it is; because I - you know, one half of the relationship, dont find it appropriate in a sexually exclusive, monogamous relationship. It's not about his intent, or lack of.

The walls of a lap dancing club are not magical ones inside which contact and acts that would be considered cheating, outside it, with non strippers are somehow inside there, not cheating. That's what men want to believe and want us to believe. Maybe don't fall for theat particular Jedi mind trick.

(And lemme tell you, the guys that do this are on average - very far from ok with their partners doing the equivalent. Their partners don't usually do the equivalent, they're never on the receiving end of it, that's why it's ok in their minds).

It's isn't just what guys do. It's what seedy creeps with no respect for women do. Also too weak to stand up to his mates. I'd have zero respect for him. Anyone that endorses the sex industry is a pathetic scrote in my eyes.

Would you be ok if your husband paid cam girls?

If my other half went to a strip club, I'd end it with him.

I don't care if I'm not cool girl club. It's a boundary for me. I can't stop him going but I could sure as hell end the relationship.

Luckily for me, my partner is not the kind to do this sort of thing and doesn't go on the lash with his mates to go to a strip club.

I haven't been to see male strippers either and never would. I aren't even prudish, I have a dirty sense of humour but I just wouldn't like it.

I don't care about sex scenes on tv or even porn but in real life, no thanks.

Oh and I aren't controlling before someone starts. He does what he wants and so do I. But that's my boundary and I am allowed to have it.

This has the makings of a film.

'Hangover - Part 4'