“You swanning out to work everyday is annoying.

[Pumpernickel101]

Last night, (because our cleaner had asked to come a day early this week), I tidied the entire house after a 12 hour day at work as a teacher.

DH was tired last night, so we agreed that I’d tidy/organise the house that night and he’d make the spare bed the following night. He finishes work at 3pm each day so that he can pick DD up from school and be with her. I finish work any time between 5 and 6:30 and have to be at work around 7:30am.

My DD 6 kept me company last night while I tidied and organised the whole house, clearing surfaces, putting laundry away, unloading the dishwasher, clearing clutter, emptying bins etc. We chatted away and she made a lovely mask as I was doing these jobs. When I’d finished, I read her a story and put her to bed while DH lay in bed on his phone.

I pulled out the mattress from under the spare room bed in preparation for my dad and his partner coming to stay this weekend but when I did, I noticed that our cat had used it as a hiding place and there was lots of fur under it. I asked if DH could hoover the mattress and make the bed to which he agreed.

Tonight I got in from work late (6:45) because it was the staff meeting at my school and DH said that we had no milk. I asked DD if she wanted to pop to the supermarket with me and thought that we could get some nice bits for my dad’s stay on the weekend. DD said she’d rather I just went but requested popcorn for our Friday night movie night.

I got home with the food shopping at 9pm and put it away. When I walked upstairs having had a 13 hour day pretty much non-stop, I found DH on DD’s bed with her asleep and him scrolling the internet and the spare bed was hoovered but unmade.

I felt really disappointed that there were still jobs to do, despite yesterday being on the go from 6am-10pm and today from 6am- 9pm and DH had done nothing but put the washing on the clothes horses that I’d put in before work this morning.

He heard me sighing frustratedly and asked how I was. I asked why he hadn’t made the bed and he said he’d “built” the bed (which is putting the two singles together with a clamp.) and hoovered it which had been “really hard”.

I said it’s not fair that I’d only asked him to do 1 thing and he hadn’t even done that despite agreeing to and despite me doing everything else and despite his working hours being more lenient.

He said he’d been making the kitchen floor (a job he stopped doing 6 months ago and he randomly decided to prioritise tonight!) I suggested that finishing the kitchen floor wasn’t really a priority when we have guests staying on Friday.

He then as he always does:

•told me I was in a “strop” repeatedly
•told me I was throwing my teddies out of the pram
•told me it didn’t need to be done that night
•Once I’d made the bed myself with duvet covers, pillow cases etc, he proceeded to grab all of the cushions off the floor and throw them chaotically on the made bed. When I told him that was unkind he said, incredulously, “What!? They just need to be off the floor for the cleaner to hoover!” Not acknowledging or being truthful about the fact that what he was really doing was trying to mess up my made bed.

•He had done a similar thing last week when I got annoyed with him about his hoarding problem starting to encroach on another room in the house. He reacted by getting loads old planks and old doors and throwing them across walkways in the previously clean and tidy kitchen and dining room then denied that this was an aggressive move until he was blue in the face.

•This time I decided to do to him what he’d done to me and went into his hoarding room and pushed a few bits of wood over.

•He got really mad then because his stuff is his whole world.

•He then told me that I’m a bad mother because I swan off for work 12 hours a day and I don’t see our daughter enough.

•I told him I have to work because we need the money and that we’re lucky because I get the whole holidays off so I can spend lots of time with our daughter in the holidays it’s free childcare so he should be happy, on weekends and I am home by 5pm so she’s only missing me for 1.5 hours of the day on those days.

•he said I don’t see her enough and my job annoys him.

• I suggested that it annoys him because when I’m not at home he has to actually do some domestic labour.

I cannot raise a single issue or communicate a single need to this man without knowing that I’ve got to get in the boxing ring and defend myself from his onslaught of nasty, unkind, disrespectful language, attitude and accusations.

Yes- I feel guilty about working full time but when I’m at home, I feel guilty about not getting my work all done. The last thing I need is for my own husband to be guilt tripping me about going to fucking work. It’s not as though I have anything close to a social life or a hobby. This is my FUCKING JOB!

He is now saying he is sorry but I’m so over his shitty, lazy, nasty attitude and behaviour.

I can’t leave because I couldn’t afford to/ it would break DD’s heart and I don’t trust that he wouldn’t expose my DD to her half sister in my absence. A dangerous and unkind young woman, who I don’t want anywhere near my DD.

So here I am - yet another trapped woman with the entirety of the mental load on my shoulders, unable to move away from a man who clearly has no love or respect for me.

why don’t you want to split? He sounds like an absolute dick. Not something a relationship therapist can fix unfortunately.

He sounds like an immature kid. I’m not sure he will ever change.

He treats your DD like that and you don't want to split from him? If you won't value yourself enough to end it, at least value her.

@Pumpernickel101

I 2nd what @VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia said. You are NOT helping your DD by keeping her in this abusive environment. I say abusive because he's now turning his nasty abusive words on her. She is only SIX. She has NO way to put his behaviour into its proper place. She will be accepting his each word, each criticism as the gospel truth.

And by the by, one should NEVER have joint counseling sessions with an abuser. He will make himself come off as 'Mr Reasonable' and any words you say to the counselor will be stored up in his brain to use as ammo against you. He will 'punish' you for your honesty and you will find yourself censoring your own words and 'soft pedaling' your issues to the counselor. Sometimes the abuser will give you subjects that you are 'not allowed' to bring up. You and he should start with separate sessions and then, when the counselor deems it the right time, begin joint counseling.

Nice!

He's started triangulating DD because you've enforced some boundaries. Your choices are now to either back down and have no boundaries (allowing DD to see this dynamic) or continue to enforce boundaries and have him use her to punish you.

Or leave, but you've said you won't.

My god, your poor little girl.

He did this to her and you STILL can't see that continuing to subject her to receiving and observing his abusive behaviour is going to damage her?

The truth isn't always nice.

The hero thing with bells on. My DH is actually very good and does far more than most of my friends husbands, but I'm the one who carries the main load of childcare and life admin. But last term I was admitted to hospital after having Covid, I've been really ill and was in hospital for over and week and then signed off work for about six weeks. This meant that he was taking our kids into breakfast club of a morning three days a week when my parents were unable to take them in.

On the first day of the new academic year I took them to BC for the first time since my hospital admission in May. The ladies who run it said hello and that they heard I'd been in hospital and how was I now etc. But I was hardly able to get past "good thanks, a bit tired still, but on the mend..." before they were exalting my husband in the strongest possible terms, as if he was Dr. fucking Barnado himself, single handedly saving a hundred thousand orphans and personally feeding them all with five loaves and two fish. I hear he turned some water into wine for the ladies at Breakfast Club too. They kept saying "oh he coped amazingly! He's so good with them! He's such a brilliant father!"

The bar is so low for what's expected of men, it really is, and women are the absolute worst for talking them up for doing the absolute bare minimum. It's fucking depressing.

As for you @Pumpernickel101 absolutely call his bluff. Say he's right, you do want to spend more time with your DD, so after Christmas you'll be quitting/scaling back your hours. Ask him what his plan is to bridge that financial gap. That'll shut him up. Prick.

Please contact womens aid xxx

A long quote, but i applaud this post. Yes yes yes! @YokoOnosBigHat . Society angers me when they idolise a dad for doing the bare minimum!

You have money and a full time job. You are able to leave, but you're understandably scared. Being scared doesn't mean you don't do it. Please call women's aid and use mumsnet to help you when you're ready.

Nor the people who tell their victim-blaming version of it.
Pile more guilt on. I’m a woman, I deserve it. 🙄

No woman deserves to be piled on, we put enough guilt on ourselves without others helping us to more. But people aren't necessarily 'piling it on' just because they disagree with you, even if they're doing so in 'strong words'. In the opinion of many here you are not seeing the forest for the trees. And if you do feel guilt after reading some posts, perhaps you should ask yourself why.

Essentially you can choose any life you want for yourself, even a really unhealthy, unhappy one. But you're choosing it for your DD. At that point guilt is inescapable. Guilt serves a purpose. It's supposed to make us try really hard to avoid that feeling, by doing the right thing.

Your DH is the one causing all this. He should be the one that feels bad. But he's choosing to please himself and doesn't care if he hurts DD and you in the process. The only sane thing to do is to try as hard as you can to not have it affect DD. Even if you think staying for the next 12 years is the least worst idea, you'll feel less guilty if you try everything else. Legal advice/Women's Aid/everything else.

I'm telling what I'm seeing from your posts.

I'm not blaming you for how he behaves, far from it! You can't change him, so the only healthy thing you can do to stop this man from lashing out at your daughter is to leave him.

The problem is that on mumsnet people always see things as cut and dry.

Most women outside of the mumsnet bubble simply cannot afford to leave.
Its not a Hollywood film where economics never come in to anything.

There is every chance that if I leave, mine and DD’s life will become worse.

As the child of divorced parents whose mum couldn't afford for us to have hot running water every day for a while, leave. Money is less important than a settled, stable mother and a home in which the child feels valued. And my dad wasn't even abusive, just selfish.

Define 'worse', though. If you're talking about a studio flat in a bad part of town and eating rice and beans from a food bank, that's definitely worse. But there are women and children who are grateful for even that if it got them away from a husband/father who mistreats them. But if you're talking about a small house in a decent area and having to watch your food budget, that's not really 'worse', it's just different. If you're talking about no longer having holidays at Disney or a villa in Spain and having to make do with a weekend by the sea, that's not worse, either. Again, that's simply different. You have to look at what you'd gain, emotionally and psychologically (for both of you), in making that choice to 'downgrade'. You can be happier in a little house eating a hamburger than you would be in a mansion being served filet mignon if the difference is peace and the lack of strife.

Have you ever truly visualized living without him? Not just that fleeting 'God I wish you were gone!' in the 'bad moments'. I mean seriously sitting down and feeling what it would be like to have a house where everything is as YOU want it, where YOU make all the decisions, where he isn't there 24/7 criticizing and moving things around to suit him. I think if you really think about it, at least some of your fears and doubts will vanish.

Meant to add

Most women outside of the mumsnet bubble simply cannot afford to leave.

But many do anyway. They leave with nothing but the clothes on their backs and their DC by the hand. And they make it after a hard slog. Again, their lifestyle may not be what they're used to, but it is theirs. Just theirs.

My BFF left a very nice 3 bed/2 bath suburban home just that way. She ended up in a 1 bed flat with her 2 y/o son. And remember, there is no social safety net where I live. She struggled and barely made ends meet for quite a few years, until she worked her way to a better paying job. But she would tell you that she was much happier living 'hand to mouth' than she was living an easier life with an abusive and selfish man.

The problem is that on mumsnet people always see things as cut and dry.

Most women outside of the mumsnet bubble simply cannot afford to leave.* Its not a Hollywood film where economics never come in to anything*

This is the reality, even when women are working full time, they still will end up living hand to mouth once they split up. You sound in a better financial situation than most and sounds like you have people who love you around as well. Again some don't have that. You will become stronger once he's not around.

There is every chance that if I leave, mine and DD’s life will become worse.

But worse how? What parts ?
Watching your mother constantly be degraded and abused is a truly horrific way for a child to live. Their lives change to try to protect their parent, they start missing out on social events as being at home means mum might get an easier life, as their is a break from arguing or it's reduced when the child is at home, they lie awake listening to the muffled voices hoping everything ok, the pressure on a child is horrific. And yes the kids do know what's going on , and yes it does affect them in older years, and that's before we start on the fact that he has already started on your 6 year old !,
A child will choose a peaceful home over anything materialistic you can provide by staying together

Yes, I understand that feeling more psychologically clear and peaceful in my own home but there are grades of unhappiness.

MNers are quick to call anything other than sunshine and rainbows, ‘abuse’ and indulge in fantasies of rags to riches tales of women escaping and working 4 jobs to pay the bills.

It doesn’t resonate for me. I grew up in a single parent household and am still paying for the vulnerabilities that gave me as an older woman.

If I can avoid takingDD away from the family unit she’s always known, I will.

if I left, I’d lose my community, my sense of stability, the times when things are good between DH & I, my DD would be disoriented, distraught and heart broken.

We’d probably end up living in our local town and never going on holiday or doing fun things. She’d be passed from pillar to post and not see me much while I tried to make ends meet.

She’d be exposed to her sister who hates me and would likely be sidelined by her as everyone in her vicinity is and at worst dangerously harmed by her.

I don’t care for romanticised visions of single mothers who made it work when I could offer my DD a resolved set of conflicts by use of a relationship therapist, financial security and two parents under one roof not adding to her load.

Nuance isn’t MN’s strong suit and I should have understood that before starting this thread. Writing things down always helps me to organise my thoughts so from that pov it’s been good.

Thank you for your kind comments.

A lot of projection going on in this post.

Do you think my mum didn't try relationship counselling? Of course she did. It didn't work. So save yourself the expense, the false hope, and the time, because you'll end up divorced anyway.

I'm not projecting when I read the post in which you tell us that he's already started on your DD aged six.

No no this is not OK. Throwing wood around? How's your ssx life, do you fancy him? J was you 4 years ago,
Trapped with an angry man. I grew to hate him, I got a court order and left.

Life is now bliss.

Make x plan, don't let this nasty human ruin your family's happiness, x