Is it me, or does this make it hopeless?

[Blindedbyit]

My boyfriend cheated on me some time ago. We split up for a long time, during which he was pretty clearly extremely regretful. He worked his way back and I gave him another chance.

The relationship is good, he did everything I asked, I don't think he'd ever cheat again, the trust is rebuilt. If anything, he is a much better boyfriend than he was before.

The problem is that after three years, where we've read every book, talked heaps, supposedly learned and grown, I still don't think he gets it.

As in, I think he doesn't truly hold himself accountable.

We had a long and unrelated discussion a few days ago because he'd been reading up online after something I'd said and he thinks he has an "external locus of control". Meaning he has a complete blindness to believing he has power over his life.

This is evident in every aspect of his life. He thinks life just happens to you. He doesn't think you can control it by doing or not doing things.

As an example, he might get an illness and instead of being proactive about getting treatment, he will just sort of feel sorry for himself.

This is kind of fine generally, as we have complimentary skills so I encourage him to do things he needs to do and he helps me in other ways.

However! He genuinely believes his cheating was just a cosmic accident. That if his office had hired a male colleague instead of a female one, that he'd never have done what he did.

This makes me pretty raging.

There was a long series of decisions that led to him cheating. A very long and unpleasant set of really shit and wrong decisions that he made. And I feel like although he freely admits that, and wouldn't make the same choices now, he still ultimately believes it would never have happened if that particular person wasn't put in his path.

I feel like this is him not really getting 101 on cheating, because you need to understand its yourself that chose it.

Is it me?

You say you've rebuilt the trust and things are better than ever. He is a better partner now and you believe he will never cheat again.

So you've moved on, continue to do so as it sounds like you are both doing great. I think you're sweating the small stuff now. Continue moving forward

Its not you! Of all the excuses for deliberately cheating this takes the biscuit. He is completely abdicating responsibility for his actions here and if l were you I'd be raging too. In fact l would probably be exercising my free will and kicking him out.

He's taking no responsibility for his life. If that's the way he wants to live it, you have to accept it or not.

I'm not convinced you've really forgiven him.
It doesn't sound like he's accepted responsibility for his actions and you're still angry about that.
I don't blame you.

Tbh I'm split on this.

Sometimes stuff happens because things happen and you make choices based on those things happening.
Sometimes you make stuff happen

So an attractive woman starts work, sparks fly, you choose to go to dinner, get drunk and have sex. You haven't contemplates sex with anyone else but this woman being there, the opportunity, meant you let it happen

Vs

You have a girlfriend but join tinder. You swipe every woman under 35, chat to them, identify who is most likely to sleep with you and do what you have to to have sex. If it wasn't her, it would be someone else.

The issue is whether he understands HE still made the final choice over what to do with his body. He made the final choice to hurt you. He would not make those choices again even if another attractive woman flirts with him.

Crikey, then if he's not in control of his life - what's to stop him shagging the next person when opportunity arises?

In truth I probably haven't forgiven him. It's because I don't feel like he takes full responsibility.

I feel like he kind of does - admits he made bad decisions and would never make the same ones, but he also believes it was just partly cosmic accident.

As I said he does this in all areas of his life. Although he's very responsibile and reliable, he has this fatalistic streak.

He's never been able to admit he wanted to cheat. And he obviously did or wouldn't have done it

So can you forgive someone if they can't fully admit what they did?

He's right in a sense that if not for fairly bizarre circumstances this would never have happened, but he still made the choices which allowed it.

I don't want guilt from him or remorse, he feels heaps of those. I think I want to know deep down what he said to himself to give himself permission.

I'll admit he was put in circumstances which made cheating about a hundred times more likely, but there was also problem a hundred different steps where he could have chosen differently.

I just feel some key epiphany is missing.

If it's all just a cosmic accident, then of course he could cheat again. I don't see how you can trust him if he acts like it was outside his control.

It just takes the next female employee, or some other woman to cross his path and the stars to align for him to do the same again.

Well basically it was during lockdown, his office put key people in a bubble in London in a shared flat, so he was away for a few months and working with / living with this woman.

They ended up chatting constantly because he couldn't go anywhere and then alcohol and bad choices.

I can see they're obviously really unusual circumstances, but he keeps saying if they'd put him in with a man it would never have happened.

I feel like this misses out a HUGE number of choices.

For example:

He clearly knew she had a big crush on him and he failed to mention he had a partner and just let her roll with it (obviously because he liked it)

He clearly knew she was making moves on him and chose not to tell me.

He chose to get drunk with her, alone.

These are all monumentally HIS responsibility but he seems to think he almost had no choice

Does he ever take responsibility for any of his actions? This 'cosmic accident' is just different words for blaming something or someone else.

What's he like in other areas of his life/your relationship?

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Pretty much this

@BlindedbyitHowever! He genuinely believes his cheating was just a cosmic accident. That if his office had hired a male colleague instead of a female one, that he'd never have done what he did.

I would not want to be in your shoes worried to death knowing that the poor guy has no saying whatsoever when it comes to falling into temptation. His office can hire another female colleague, he might get a female GP, or bump into some pretty girl in the pub who hits on him (another 'cosmic accident' waiting to happen) and he will fall off that cliff because he's powerless (little ol him).

Jokes apart, the gaslighting he's playing on you is quite something.

sleepingstandingup talks a lot of sense.

Ok, he wouldn't have had sex with a male colleague because he isn't interested in men. Presumably he wouldn't have sex with a lesbian one because she would not be interested in him. No opportunity or motivation.

But he didn't have to have sex with the female colleague of the right age, physicality and personality (I expect) who was available and interested. This was not inevitable. She did not force or coerce him. It is perfectly possible to walk away from an offer of sex or romance, even an interesting one. People do it every day.

I don't understand his rationale. Is he saying he isn't actively looking but is open to opportunities with other women? Because the claim that he has no agency over whom he has sex with is nonsense and he needs to explain himself to you further.

Have you asked what he would do differently next time, if anything? That is to say if another interested and attractive woman comes onto the scene?

He is very responsibile and reliable, but in the broader picture he thinks everything is just luck.

Then you should shag some guy and blame it on luck and a cosmic accident. See what he has to say.

If one of the things you need him to do is to take responsibility and he isn't....then all is not well, and the future isn't rosy

Cross post, missed quite a bit.

Nahhh that wasn't an accident, cosmic or otherwise.

It was prolonged and deliberate on his part if he neglected to tell her for a long time that he had a partner knowing she was interested, then allowing suitable boundaries to be crossed such as drinking together and encouraging her interest.

Has he said why he never mentioned you or shut her down? It's quite deceitful to both actually.

Wasn't luck that stopped him telling her no.

He doesn't want to take ownership of what he did.

This 'external locus of control' stuff is part of that.

It's not my fault - I have an external locus of control!

It puts a fancy term on it so it's just a thing happening to him.

Honestly, if I were in this situation and my partner did not take full responsibility for the hurt that he had caused, I'd leave.

Although to be honest I'm probably not a good person to contribute to this discussion because I'm a 'cheat once and I'm gone' kind of person. I don't really think cheaters ever change if I'm honest.

That really made me laugh!

So what happens when the cosmos decides to throw another attractive woman his way?

he keeps saying if they'd put him in with a man it would never have happened.

Of course it wouldn't have happened if it had been a man. There would have been no temptation to resist (assuming he's straight). It's totally and utterly irrelevant!

Most relationships are tested at some point when one or the other person meets someone they're attracted to. This sort of situation, which gives him the opportunity to cheat, would have come up at some point, even if not this colleague at this time.

He's just deflecting and trying to avoid owning what he did.

Call him out on it and if he doesn't step up, leave.

I think both things can be true in a way. That this probably wouldn’t have happened except for these specific circumstances. But also that he did ultimately make the decision to cheat.

I personally firmly believe that nobody ever cheats without understanding what they’re doing and making a specific decision to go ahead with cheating on their partner. Yes that decision could be clouded by alcohol etc and they may regret it later etc, but short of someone being raped against their will, I think it’s a decision that someone makes to cheat. I have never cheated and know that I never ever will as long (as I have capacity to make my own decisions and am not coerced).

In your shoes I think I would be worried at the back of my mind that this would happen again if the stars aligned for another set of perfect circumstances for cheating. And also I’d be angry somewhere still that he hasn’t taken ultimate responsibility for making this decision to hurt you and the relationship.

Its good that he’s thinking about why he is like this and has identified that he has an external locus of control. That’s the first step to changing that to an internal locus of control. But also I do agree with PPs saying he might just be trying to put a fancy name on what he did because he knows it’s not justifiable!

I think if he’s eg saying “this would never have happened if I had been paired with a male colleague, if I am ever in a similar situation again I’m going to make sure that I insist the company puts me with a male colleague, otherwise I will have to find another job rather than put my relationship at risk again” then that’s him taking some responsibility at least? But yeah I personally would want to see him saying “I definitely should have told my work colleague I had a partner, in hindsight should have been more on my guard especially when alcohol was involved and I regret that split second decision I made while under the influence to cheat on you”. I’m pretty puritanical about cheating though. I just think it’s so disrespectful.

I was sorely tempted once by a guy at Uni who had a long-standing girlfriend, we were both drunk and we had a brief moment where something could definitely have happened, lucky for his girlfriend (now his wife of many decades) I decided to remind him he had a girlfriend and put him in a taxi home.

@GLORIAGloriarse

Has he said why he never mentioned you

He started off saying he's a private person and doesn't share much, which is true generally, but obviously bull shit in this scenario. He later said he felt he was asserting his independence. Autonomy to have a female friend. Due to a previous spouse who controlled his every move.

I actually do believe he didn't fancy her. Not to be nasty but she was the last person on earth I thought he'd ever shag, even if he was single. She's a million miles from his type and he's usually very fussy.

I don't think he's being honest with me or himself. I think he didn't want to cheat, that wasn't his initial intention, but I think the attention was flattering and he knew mentioning me would make the flattery and ego boost stop.

I think it would do him good to admit that.

His immaturity is staggering. Get rid of this idiot.