Making the biggest decision - kids vs husband

[WeighingUpMyOptions]

I do not love my DH. He is difficult and mean. And its getting worse. I am happier when he is not at home.

There is no addiction or abuse or lies. He is a loving dad who takes zero responsibility for the boring and difficult stuff.

I am presuming he will want 5050. He may not but I must prepare for the worst.

I am quite a pragmatic person and I'm weighing up my options this way: the pain of not seeing my kids 50% vs the pain of biting my tongue around my DH for the next decade.

For people who chose to leave and now see their kids less - was it worth it? It seems awful to think it might be. I'm finding it so so hard to live with this man.

What an impossible decision. Both things feels unthinkable

10 years later I still wonder if I would have stayed, had I had the luxury of hindsight.

My relationship with my DC has changed beyond recognition. When they first went to school, they had to be peeled off me by the teachers, then our divorce happened aged 12/15 and since then they have been v close to my ex (having previously only seen him weekends as he worked such long hours), and now, 10 years later, as adults, they live with him. It kills me every single day.

But could I have stayed with ex, who like your 'DH' wasn't abusive etc... I don't know.

I often wonder. I was v miserable in the marriage. But now I am very miserable about my relationship with my children. Last month the eldest turned 25. He wasn't bothered about celebrating, and went home from work to dinner (no doubt, celebratory dinner) with his sibling and Dad. I was tearful the entire day, but he pointed out to me it is his day, not mine. (I found that harsh).

I think nothing is ever perfect. I am in a wonderful relationship now, but, I don't have the same bond with my DC that I once had.

Because of the bond I had with them at the time of our separation, I didn't consider that this could happen (I had never heard of a Disney Dad!). I guess it could have happened anyway as they are boys and share many common interests.

(I think you've caught me on a particularly bad day... not every situation is the same), and I can't say for sure I would have stayed. But, I am not necessarily happier. Happier in a better relationship, but v gut wrenchingly devastated at the effect on my kids and our relationship.

I have friends from divorced parents and they have ended up forgiving and loving both sides. It has been a struggle but they now can't even imagine their parents having been together in the first place. You really can't tell. Your children are young, be patient and slowly they will come back to you. Love isn't all about the passion and showy side. Love isn't just about being next to them. Love is being there through thick and thin and no matter what happens they have you and can come to you. That is real love.

I hope for that every single day. I am here for them always. I try to let them know that all the time, and not pressure them. Youngest had counselling because his Dad put so much guilt on them to 'look after' him, but still they stay with him.

They are boys, well, now they are men, and men of few words. They don't really speak much about their stuff/emotions etc, which I guess is how I would feel close to them. I hope as they grow older and have meaningful relationships, I can become closer again, and supportive to them.

I hope it is a phase.

Sorry... I could go on and on and I realise this isn't my thread so I will stop, and not distract! xx

Yes, it was worth it.

Weighing up my options

Better for the kids to be around you say 50% of the time with your influence (and that is a starting point anyway) than for you both to continue to show your kids what a loveless marriage looks like.

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents, what do you think they are learning about relationships here and what do you want to teach them?. You want to teach them that a loveless marriage could be their norm too?. Do not remain in such a marriage merely because you will not be seeing your children some of the time. That’s no reason either to remain in a loveless marriage. Also kids are not daft and they can and will pick up on all the vibes here, both spoken and unspoken.

If he does indeed take no responsibility for the “boring”and “difficult” stuff then quite apart from showing his children they can behave like that too , his lack of responsibilities could extend to them as well. Your example of a marriage here is no legacy to leave them. If someone else were in such a marriage would you be advising them to stay, I would think not.

Have you tried talking to him? Counselling? How old are your children? Assuming no abuse I would prioritise staying together over separating purely so as not so go through what the previous poster has x

I hear you.

As you say this is the OP's thread and I don't want to hijack it but your post helped me. My DS is 14 and while he was surgically attached to me until the end of primary school, everything changed as around that time husband stopped working shifts and then had his weekends free and could be a Disney dad. Like OP's husband, he had absolutely zero interest in the "boring stuff", plus DS was born with multiple health conditions, so who bore the brunt of everything was me, even though I was severely depressed until he was around 3.

I was planning to divorce him as soon as DS left home, but as he is such a gaslighting manipulative narcissist, there's zero doubt that he'll turn DS against me. So what do I do now? Stay and feel miserable with a horrible man or divorce him and risk losing my son forever? I'm thinking the first option is preferable as I have absolutely zero interest in having another relationship with another man, ever. I just grin and bear now and mull over my options till the time comes to take a decision.

Sending much love to you and I really wish your DSs change their minds one day. X

As horrible as it is not seeing your children all of the time, yes I think leaving was worth it.
My bond is stronger with them because I’m no longer stressed and walking on eggshells, I focus on quality time when I’m with them as opposed to the quantity of before.

My daughter sees me as an example of knowing your own worth & not accepting misogyny in a partner - I have never ever said anything about my ex, this is all her own observation now that she can see the comparison of him on his own with unfiltered views vs the positive and happy home I’ve built for her when she’s with me.

It’s a horrible thing to go through, it really is the hardest thing I’ve ever handled, but you have one life & you must make the most of it.

Assuming no abuse I would prioritise staying together over separating purely so as not so go through what the previous poster has

No. Just because some stranger on the internet has told their story doesn't mean you have to follow their way.

Every relationship is different. Do what you feel is right for YOU, taking into account all scenarios.

No-one knows what the future will hold.

You only get one shot at this life.

I think most people are afraid to be on their own, building up a new life to align with their core values.

Think ahead to 10 years. Are you aligning yourself with living your best life?

I think it's very easy to advise to leave and say that you've only got one life and you have to make the most of it. In an ideal scenario when the two people in the relationship are on the same wavelength it's an easy decision to make.

However, in my case and many others, men are real bastards who gaslight, manipulate and are absolutely fine with turning the children against the mothers. My husband made not a threat but spelt out very clearly that if I ever try to leave him he'll rewrite history to suit his own agenda just fine. I am not ready to lose my relationship with my son, so I'm slowly coming to terms with the idea of staying with husband. I don't mind sacrificing myself for a continuous relationship with my only child. I've been educating myself and reading a lot about narcissism and how to deal with it, things like grey rocking, etc. I'm not saying this is what the OP should do, more power to her if she decides to divorce. I'm just saying that in my case, which is a similar predicament to the OP, this is the outcome that I see for myself.

It's easy to advise to leave. But when you're married to a man like my husband at least, it's seemingly impossible to do so

I went out for dinner with DH and some people tonight. He was silent, moody, looking at his phone. When we left he told me everything I've done wrong.

I hate it. I would give anything to be alone and single. I'll go to every dinner or party by myself but to go and have to "manage" someone else. To see him be rude to people. I can't stand it.

I'm sorry to hear @nervesonnerves your story. That's the issue isn't it. Risk the relationship with the children or be uncomfortable with my husband forever.

I can't stand that this is my choice.

I'm sorry @nervesonnerves I really am. Everyone on here promises that our kids will all see the reality of who put in the graft, who did the 3am cuddles.

But its not always like that eh? Kids get sold stories. Kids drift.

I find it so hard to try and work out what's right for me without 2nd guessing my kids reaction to it

Hi, sorry to ask so directly, but you are saying he isn't abusive, and I hope that is true. But how is he? What type of a person is he? Abuse is not always physical. It can emotional too. And you feeling so bad around him is not good. Is it just that you don't love him anymore / are bored of him? Or is he treating you in a certain way?

Hi BetsyBobbins, can I ask you what is he like? Like some examples of what makes you feel towards him the way you do? How does he treat you? Is he a good dad etc?

Mine were 2 and 5 when I left. We did 50/50 at first and that was tough. But their dad ended up going to work overseas for 7yrs, on and off. They are 19 and 15 now, 19yr old at Uni, 15yr old does 50/50. Both kids close to both parents. We have remained friends and always back each other up with parenting. I couldn’t have stayed and been miserable.

I've had 50/50 with my ex since dd was 5, she's now 12. At the start he was a nightmare, saying all kinds of inappropriate things to her etc but things have calmed down. She has her own view now so he can't manipulate her as easily. I too did the real quality time when she was with me thing - you can do that when you have child free time to catch up on all the rest of life. Although now she's at secondary she of course wants to spend time with friends not me which is a shocker when you're left at home alone even on "your" time. But you adapt and I now have a partner, which makes me realise how glad i am to have escaped the relationship with ex, as this one is worlds better. no one can predict how your kids will react, but 50/50 can work

how old are your kids OP? depending on their ages could you talk to one of them about the situation in advance of making a decision? see how they feel about it?

He is emotionally abusive OP.

TBH you can end up with a distant relationship with kids you parent full time.

It’s not in the kids’ interested to see their mother being bullied, or to have a dysfunctional relationship as their model.

It will wear you down till you have no life left in you.

I would leave, parent your side well, and leave him to it. The chances are they will have fine relationships with you both.

God you CANNOT put an adult decision on kids. That would be very manipulative.

I was in a version of your place. Had a pragmatic plan to hang on at
least until kids are through secondary.
Didn’t quite work because it got a place
where i was forced to file.

No patter what everyone tells you - divorce is hard. And it’ll be harder than you imagine.

Yes - kids adjust. You adjust. Some things improve. New difficult things appear. Its not all good or all bad. But your relationship with kids gets altered.

And no - they dont remember who cuddled them at 3am. They dont remember much of early life. Of old enough - they remember divorce. And many dads become fun Weekend Dads.

Depending on the age of your kids - i’d hold on to pragmatism and ignore H for as long as you can.

@Mimimi1029 I don’t want to hijack the OP’s thread as I could be writing about his behaviour till the cows come home. All I can say is that it’s classic narcissistic stuff, DARVO techniques, gaslighting, etc. Is he a good dad? To the outside world, yes. Now that my DS is 14 he gets to do all the fun stuff. But who worried about DS special diet when he was a baby due to his health conditions, stayed awake all night when he had a crisis/ was teething/ had multiple ear and throat infections/chickenpox/etc, who researched primary and secondary schools & did all the visits, who still manages all DS medical appointments, and the absolute rest of it, it is certainly NOT him. Just an example, when I fell pregnant it was a shock as it was unplanned and I was 35+. I immediately fell into a deep depression and wasn't sure about the pregnancy, not because I didn't want the baby, but because my childhood was so horrible and abusive that I was worried that I wasn't capable of bringing a child up properly as I had no example of good parenting myself. In one of the arguments we had he threatened to tell DS that I wanted to abort him. Charming man as you can see.

I think in the case of @Zanatdy and @SpringCalling they had the advantage of divorcing when the kids were little and have few to no memories of it. When you have teenagers it’s a completely different kettle of fish. They will remember and will pledge alliance to one side, especially if said side has no qualms in manipulating the child and rewriting history for his own benefit. If the two parts come to a mutual agreement and keep a good relationship for the sake of the kids, then it’s a different thing.

I work in a CAMHS team as admin and of course I need to read and edit reports (I wish hadn’t to, honestly). The vast majority of teenagers we have in our caseload have parents who divorced acrimoniously. I’m not making that up, honestly.

@jsku hit the nail on the head when writing this:
“And no - they dont remember who cuddled them at 3am. They dont remember much of early life. Of old enough - they remember divorce. And many dads become fun Weekend Dads.”

My husband is the weekend fun dad without even being divorced

@WeighingUpMyOptions
I am going through exactly the same process as you OP, but I have recently come down on the side of I must get a divorce. I CANNOT live like this any more.

I am terrified of the impact of divorce on my kids, consumed with guilt, worried about how awful my husband will make it - he's already started to manipulate them.

But it had reached the stage (I am ashamed to say) that I realised if something bad happened to my husband, I'd feel nothing but relief. Kids must be subconsciously affected by this (though I'm not saying you have reached this stage)

So no wise words, just lots of solidarity.

@jsku Yes - I think what you say is horribly accurate. And terrifying. As a kid, I remember thinking my dad was a hero and my mum was boring and difficult. Now in my 30s I see that my dad was emotionally manipulative & a bully - and my mum was managing him. But it's taken me 35 years to get here. I would have chosen my dad over my mum as a teenager I'm sure of it.

@howmanytimes34 don't feel bad admitting that at all. I went through a stage last year of thinking in my (weird) head "don't worry about divorce, maybe he'll get run over, or maybe he'll have a breakdown and run off" and comfort myself with this thought...I now have the perpective to know that is never going to happen. And if i want things to change i have to be the grown up and make the change, not just let the decades go past in the hope he gets run over or ill or falls in love with someone else.

the feeling of not being free from him is so suffocating. my kids are pre-school. we have 10-15 years to go of being together or being co-parents and all the same problems with remain: him manipulating things, him making things difficult, him neglecting all their needs and then rushing in with a huge present every couple of weeks.

Thank you for the supportive words. There is no answer to any of this.

OP, there is an answer. You separate. It’s ok, you (plural) will get through it. Pre-school is one of the better times to do it, I think.

Pre school is the best time. Much harder when they get older and can you see another 5-10-15 years of this?

I can guarantee you this. When they get to the teen years, the only thing that matters to them is their friends. Kids don’t need parents all their lives. It’s a bind going to see parents sometimes when they are older and moaning about their ailments etc.

In your case I would say that the current situation and how you feel is untenable .