Making the biggest decision - kids vs husband

[WeighingUpMyOptions]

I do not love my DH. He is difficult and mean. And its getting worse. I am happier when he is not at home.

There is no addiction or abuse or lies. He is a loving dad who takes zero responsibility for the boring and difficult stuff.

I am presuming he will want 5050. He may not but I must prepare for the worst.

I am quite a pragmatic person and I'm weighing up my options this way: the pain of not seeing my kids 50% vs the pain of biting my tongue around my DH for the next decade.

For people who chose to leave and now see their kids less - was it worth it? It seems awful to think it might be. I'm finding it so so hard to live with this man.

What an impossible decision. Both things feels unthinkable

Pre school is really the best time, I totally missed my boat.
OP, if your kids are pre school please take advantage of it and run, don't walk

@WeighingUpMyOptions

Actually - as your kids are small - it is actually easier in a way. Not remembering divorce, or time before is a blessing. My kids certainly dont remember much from their life before reception.
And - in a lot of ways - they are harder to manipulate at that age. And they are harder work - so your H might not actually want 50/50. He would initially of course say he would - they always do. But then reality of what that requires would set in.

The pragmatic calculation i’d do is - given how he is and how he is getting worse - do you think you can last for 10+ years?
If its unlikely - it's better to jump now so they don't remember.

Mine remember our relationship getting worse. And arguments I thought we kept away from them. They don't know/ remember him being horrible to me,
as it didn't necessarily happen in front of them, or they didn't understand what was said.
So - divorce wasn’t really surprising to my elder. Younger didn't understand as much, i guess.

As time after divorce unfolded - and me and exH have faced disagreements - it was at times hard for them.

And they dont want to take sides, even when my ex behaves in the way he used to with me. But over the years he did manage to communicate a bit of ‘poor me’ - thinking that its unfair they spend more time with me.
It's hard to see them take his side when he is being difficult - but i need to remind myself they dont have my history with him.
And hope one day when they are grown and have their own kids - they’ll appreciate all i have done for them.

I was in your position. I had steeled myself to just wait until my daughter was 18 but then I ruined everything by sabotaging myself with an exit affair. I think I just could not be with him anymore and my (very wrong and selfish) actions forced me to leave. In reality I wish I had been strong enough to leave without the affair because then at least he wouldn't have that absolute fury to keep throwing at me. I am now the bad guy when he was the awful one throughout the marriage!

I keep flipping between thinking I should have stayed with him for her, vs thinking that now she can be modelled a healthy relationship and won't grow up in a house of tension. We share 50/50 and it's often fine, often super lovely, often very hard. My daughter has adjusted well overall but still has rocky moments when she just wants me and is at his house (eg this week when she's started back at school).

I'm only two years in and I'm hoping it will get easier!!

I've not read the whole thread.

I got as far as the posts from @nervesonnerves and @BetsyBobbins and this rang true for me too.

Whilst in the relationship I didn't feel I was being abused, I was lonely and ex-h didn't back me up in the home as much as he could/should have done, so I was always portrayed as being the "nagging" parent.

When the boys were little we'd had some hard times due to health issues with the boys and this lead to depression for me and possibly for him too. I told him I was not happy on a number of occasions, though I didn't see a future without our little dysfunctional family unit.

When I did eventually leave he took everything as he'd always threatened he'd do. He took the house, my possessions and most importantly he re-wrote history for the boys. I won't go into details, but his behaviour was bad enough that he was arrested and had a restraining order put on him. All of which was apparently my fault.

The eldest is now starting to see through him and after 3 lost years we are now becoming closer than we were before, but I've lost those years. The youngest is still fiercely loyal to his Dad and I guess it may take longer before he starts to see the truth.

I don't feel now. I'm numb. I can't let myself feel because if I do the hurt is too deep.

If I had the choice again, I don't know if I'd stay or not. If I stayed I certainly would not have lost the last few years with my DC, but I was always portrayed as being "bad cop" anyway.

I just feel sorry for ex-h's new girlfriend. He'll be lovely until she doesn't do exactly what he wants.

I do agree pre school is the best age as they won't remember. DH can be pretty grumpy (tonight he gave up doing bedtime for example and when to play video games) and was in a mood. It's a very long time to co parent and for them to have no say in anything. The thought of them unhappy and upset with him for days on end and I'm not allowed to see them....its pretty grim

I don't know how DH will react. His MH is pretty all over the place sometimes. I don't 100% trust him to do the right thing with the kids. But it's all unknown. That's why it's scary.

I do appreciate that the current situation spunds unsustainable. But women do sustain situations like mine but v unhappily I guess.

Have you tried pushing back at all? I think the example you gave tonight of him being a misery and then listing all your faults. He needs to know that he is really not in a position to be pulling that shit.

It is really hard I left ExH when DS1 was 5. He doesn't really remember us being together, but it was 8 or so years of very difficult 'co parenting' before DS kind of gave up with him when he was about 13. I think he still had a few tears after that of idolising his dad, until he started to realise that his dad had not really been honest about a lot of things.

How likely is it your husband will want to do 50% of the daily grind if you divorce? Especially if you appear happy with the idea and say you'd like some time off?

Not very, is my guess.

I would choose to leave
but I am the strict parent ,he lets them do as they please
they would without doubt choose to live with him..they are boys and already closer to him ,and they like the same things .
I chose to stay

I think in hind sight ,I just left it to late, I should have left years ago when they were little ,he would not of wanted 50/50 of the grunt work …but now they are older ,it easier and yes ,they will choose to live with him …his family has old money ,so would think nothing of fighting me in court to get the kids

Also ,when they were little ,he was absolutely awful to me ,like nasty ,he wouldn’t give me money ,and sabotaged any chance of me working,because he wanted a stay at home mum for his kids ..in short he was a bully ,who had an affair and left ,then decided he was coming back and I couldn’t stop him because he owned half the house ..
the kids don’t remember any of that at all ,they just think he is a great dad

My story is different because my husband left me, the marriage wasn’t horrendous but I was happier for the separation once everything settled and he has always been a fantastic coparent.

My children were 7 and 6 when it happened and by the time they were 8 and 7 they were essentially 50/50 between the two of us. I used the child free time to have lots of fun with friends, eventually finding a new partner who I am happy with. This has all had its benefits but I do feel less of the connection with the children (who are now 11 and 10) than I did when they were younger. We were each others world and I worked part time as their primary carer. It is only subtle but is still a huge thing to lose. Selfishly, I’m pleased that I didn’t have the choice so I don’t have to agonise over what would have been better and I think choosing to stay or leave must be horrendous. I’m sorry you are going through this.

if you choose to leave, perhaps stick to your choice and try your best to find your happiness without allowing the guilt or wondering whether you’ve made a mistake to overtake the next part of your life. There are positives and negatives to both choices, all you can do in life is make the right decision at the time.

Is it bad that I'd split now at this age at the hope the kids are too 'hard work' for him to want 50/50...? When they're preteens he can ignore them or play video games with them. At this age they'll be up early and want to 'do'.

I've always heard don't stay together 'for the children'. You're teaching them what relationships should look like, and soon they'll be the ones affected by his moods, pandering to his behaviour and thinking this is normal.

OP, when you say that he's not abusive, are you sure? Telling you that you've everything wrong, silent treatment etc, are abusive behaviours.

I can't answer your question, because it depends so much on how he will react and the personality of your children.

In my case, I stayed until the children were older teens. Firstly because I didn't realise the damage it eas cause, because I still thought i could "fix" him.

But also because I was terrified of losing the relationship I had with my dcs.

The result is that the dcs are largely fine (definitely shaped by his behaviour, but outwardly thriving). I, on the other hand, was broken, and it took a lot of time and work for me to start to fix.

If you are questioning this now, I'm not sure that you will be able to spend ten years knowing you want out.

I wold leave in your shoes, and did leave in mine.

My EXDP was not physically abusive but emotionally battered me until I had no choice but to leave.

He'd say nasty things in front of the DC about me, and always treated me as someone to look down on. He showed me no care in the way I needed to be cared for, and always put himself as number 1.

He didn't do any of the grunt work for either DC, particularly DC with additional needs, yet when I said I'd leave, he'd threaten me with taking full custody of the DC because I was such a bad mum and apparently did nothing in the house!

Since leaving him, he had begrudgingly had DC every other weekend, so 4 days in a month. He cancels visits if he decides he'd prefer to go abroad, and sometimes collects them on Saturday instead of Friday from school, at the last minute.

He has them a couple of extra nights here and there in the school holidays.

I'm currently in the process of taking EXDP to court, so we can put a child arrangements order in place, as I cannot stand the way he sees parent as optional for him. By the time the process is finished, it will have cost me the best part of £5k.

If I had my life again, I would always have left him (and probably not have continued the relationship beyond the dating stage early on). As other PP have said I don't want my DC thinking that kind of relationship is normal, or being the abuser or abused in future. I hope to be building a strong enough relationship with my DC that while I appreciate that they love their Dad, they'll always know I tried to do the best by them, while they'll come to see that he only ever thinks of himself (there are some signs he's emotionally abusive to DC, but not a lot I can do about it).

Mine were 5 and 7 when I separated from their dad, I was miserable and he was controlling and spiteful.
I changed jobs from nights to days so I’d see them more but even though he said he’d be the 50/50 parent he only sees them every other weekend.
I enjoy my child free time to go gym, catch up with friends or do some extra shifts

Two points to consider:

1. Every teacher I know says 50/50 is the absolute worst arrangement for the child. When they don't have a primary home it's so disruptive to schooling as during the week their constantly settling in somewhere or preparing to move on somewhere. If you think he will demand 50/50 you have to think about the long tail of that decision on their educational outcomes.

1. Splitting when they've just left for uni is often just as damaging as mid teens as the child feels pulled back to support one parent or the other or both emotionally and it can lead to a failure to launch. I saw this with multiple people I knew when I was uni. It's massively destabilising to have your home destroyed the moment you lose it.

Sorry OP, the situation is awful. Have you had counselling etc? Did something change him since the kids arrived? Or has he always had these tendencies?

There are so many of us. MN always pushes me to leave, and I do understand why and no I don't think that growing up seeing this type of marriage is good for them.

But I am certain the alternative will be worse.

Mine were preschool age when we separated and it was definitely the right choice. although he wasn’t abusive I’m much happier and the kids are happily settled with me.

My experience, and that of the vast majority of single parents who I know, was that he didn’t want the work and expense of small children and happily does every other weekend and the occasional week holiday and paying a bit of maintenance. This is much more likely if you’re preschool stage - 50/50 is really only statistically likely if they’re older.

My best bit of advice, if you mainly want the kids with you longer term, is to put no obstacles in the way of him having them; do nothing to make his time easier; and make it clear that you enjoy the child free time. So, if he suggests 50/50 you say ok let’s trial it before you move out. You do this week I’ll do next week. Then on his week you go and stay with a friend. Don’t shop / cook/wash/book childcare/ ask your parents to help / do nursery pickups or answer texts etc. He needs 100% responsibility. Then come home happy, rested having had a lovely time.

@WeighingUpMyOptions I’ve not read the full thread but I do empathise with you. My relationship with DP has hit some rocky patches where I’ve thought about us splitting up, but (selfishly) I wouldn’t want to only see my kids 50% of the time. We have talked through issues in the past though and I think we would also try counselling to make sure we’d thrown everything at it before splitting up.

However the difference is that your DH does sound really horribly mean and I’m not sure I could live with that. Why on Earth was he telling you everything you’d done wrong after a dinner with friends? That sounds absolutely awful and I think because of that it would be better to split and hope that he doesn’t want 50/50.

I also agree with others that splitting while kids are young is better. I can’t remember who on the thread said it but I completely agree that as a teen I’d have chosen to live with my dad and it’s only as I’m older that I can see why this would have been the wrong decision.

(As an aside, my parents used to argue all the time and my dad had an affair, so I often used to wish they’d split up and did used to think about who I’d live with. They’re still together now but since having my own kids I’ve realised what an unhealthy model they set to me for relationships)

Good luck in whichever decision you make

I agree @YukoandHiro that 5050 to my mind sounds pretty difficult. I would hate to be 5050 between 2 homes. So I find it hard to imagine telling my kids that is what they must do even if they don't want to.

This evening he was play fighting with the kids and he cooked a roast. And I was thinking "what the hell am I thinking" - why would I break this up?

Then as soon ax they're in bed he starts explaining something to me that he thinks I don't understand. The eye rolls. The "I don't know how much clearer I can make it" comments when I'm asking reasonable questions. And then the classic "you're very highly strung aren't you dear?" As he walks out slamming the door (without a hint of self awareness).

But my kids go to bed happy and very adoring and affectionate with us both. I think they'll hate me for messing with that kiss because he's a patronising difficult git towards me.

Sorry to keep posting. I don't have anything new to say. I should probably go to therapy but currently saving every penny for a divorce /solicitor fund.

@WeighingUpMyOptions

What would your finances look like if you split now. Assuming 50/50 of capital.
Do you work?
If his salary is sufficient - he may pay some spousal maintenance for a few
years.

Kids are too small now - so if you do make a move they wont remember and wont hate you.

It is harder to hide tension from them as they get older.

Therapy is always a good idea….

@jsku yes, so I'm main earner in the house. He left work for a bit and then got a much more junior one. At the time he said he needed to do this for his MH. 3 years later he has rewritten history to say he took the much more junior job to around for the kids more but that isn't true and hasn't happened. His hours are the same. And I still do 90% of the child stuff. He doesn't like work. He has said he would like to quit if possible.

I think the wage disparity means I may pay him support or he will get more than 50% equity (despite me buying the house myself from sale of my own flat).

I can afford everything by myself but I can't afford to buy him out/give him huge % of equity or pay support to him and still pay for everything else.

Oh wow.
Given what you just said. OP, get out now.
He'll both get more and more the longer you stay.
Plus he's putting you down viciously because he feels emasculated by you being the main earner. This will keep getting worse.
He's a vicious see you next Tuesday imo.

Depending on how long you have been married - you could ring fence some of what you put into the house.
And if you have pension - that too.
But you need to get advice.

But without knowing more - it does seem that financially it makes sense for you to act sooner and not wait until he actually quits and you are forced to support him.

Often, women as unhappy as you - are financially dependent on their partners and cant leave. But in your case - he is putting you down because he feels inadequate. He is lazy. And you do most of the work anyway. Why would you hang on to that setup???

I was a SAHM when i was waiting my time. It was scary as i had non idea how it all would have turned out for me…

It's fresh for me, so still finding my feet, but I don't regret splitting up. Dd is nearly five and we coparent 5050. She doesn't like the situation but she's coping. She knows her dad was awful to me, because she unfortunately witnessed some of it. I didn't want her to grow up thinking that behaviour was acceptable in relationships. I'm a bit lonely but it's getting easier. She doesn't mind going to her dad's, he is good with her, but I think she'd prefer to live me and see him once a week if she had the choice. I hate the feeling that we pass her back and forth like a shared toy. Overall though, the situation is better than when we were living together.