"But we took you to stately homes" part 3

[oneplusone]

Sorry for starting part 3 if it has already been started but i logged on just now and found the previous thread has reached 1000 posts. And my title is not very inspiring, Ally90, please help!

I can relate to food issues. I definitely have food issues as I wasn't fed much as a child.

Smithfield, I can really relate to 'without me doing the 'donkey' work there is no relationship to be had'. The sad thing is that the penny only just dropped as I read that sentence. I've just realised that pretty much every relationship I've got (family and friends), I'm the one doing all of the 'donkey' work. I even send Christmas/Birthday cards and give birthday presents to so called friends that never ever return the sentiment and yet I do this year after year. My birthday is very close to Christmas so I've always assumed that people are too busy at that time of year to remember my birthday.

I've always felt like I am the type of person that other people walk all over, that I do nothing but give and everyone else just takes.

I know this sounds a bit self centred and selfish of me but it would be nice, just for once, for someone to call me up out of the blue and ask me how I am, instead of me calling them to find out how they are.

Matildax-sorry for your history and
I think that you looking at and traveling the path of your truth is coping better than (trying to) keeping it buried...your feeling of not coping very well is perhaps childhood training by the toxic ones to not show feeling. Your physical symptoms point to the truth of you being on the right path to healing, imho...you may be finally just now starting to actually cope very well ('the truth will set you free'-that is also the title to an Alice Miller book). Good for you! Even though this is excruciatingly difficult and painful and scary, know you are doing the right thing for yourself (and no one else can ever do it for you).

There have been several posts about physical symptoms in this thread or in the other two threads...
Others may address this better than I, but I believe the physical symptoms will be temporary. I can not guess how long they will last for you, perhaps everyone is different (different experiences). Your mind is becoming stronger to heal yourself, keep your mind engaged with the truth because the physical stuff seems to be a weakness to pull people back down again.

I hope your precious little one gets well soon.

Oneplusone, Smithfield:
My MS favors my mother and I favor my father, too.
Dear me, my precious third born ( ) seems to favor me . Ds and Dd1 favor their father's mother's line.

Relationship with MS in regards to the term "fabrication" -that word really hits it on the head! MS's fabrication and if we didn't play or respond appropriately...great balls of fire-victim status with the tense silent tissy fits (a la 'her way or the highway').

In reflection, and I have been deep in reflection the past week-actually it is one week today (still have not emailed photo of baby to her (bad TMSB, bad)-
even the times that were "happy", when we got along well, when she seemed to be the 'perfect friend', I now feel it was all about her building up an account of superiority. I often felt like her 'charity' project. This is difficult for me to keep in perspective because the manipulation is so strong-"I did this for you, now you do this for me"...
I don't mind picking up the check when it is my turn, but when the 'you do this for me' means being her subordinate emotional servant then the price is too high. Individual instances seem innocent in themselves, but on the whole--with the experience of her totally controlling me since the day I announced my pregnancy, it is hard to evaluate the history any other way.
Gift giving- I used to try to spend on her in some manner equal to what she spent on us, but family of 4 on single income just could not keep up with her (single-professional salary). Several years ago at Christmas time, I flat out told her that I was not going to over spend at Christmas anymore, just one or two gifts and that was it. Then she keeps upping the ante, and I refused to go along. She said she was trying to 'help out'- TMSB and dh need her financial assistance? No we do not. She was investing in another demonstration of her perception of superiority in sibling rivalry. Is that what this is about-childish sibling rivalry??
Fine, she can win (really I am happy she is successful), but now she is out of my life because it seems her success satisfaction can not be defined in other terms except in putting me (patronizing compliments) or OS (plain insults) down in comparison to herself.
-----
I always give ds and dd1 an abundance of money for field trips or when ever they are going out, because mom hardly ever saw to it that I had money even for a drink when I was growing up.

Smithfield - what you have described with your siblings mirrors exactly my relationship with my two younger sisters. I am very like my father in looks and had exactly the same issue with my mother sneering at my looks (and weight). She even told my sister that I was too butch to get a boyfriend (when we were teens) which obviously my sister took great joy in relating back to me. My mother always said that she was horrified when I was born and she was expecting a lovely blonde thing (like herself) and I turned up with a shock of dark hair like my dad. It was also noted that I was born on Friday 13th and a full moon.

My current issue is that sister number 2 (2.5 yrs younger than me) is pg with her first child and I desperately want to help her and be there for her. This seems strange as she did nothing for me for any of my DS's or for my suffering from depression (when I tried to confide in her she told me that she had too much going on to cope with listening to me). I too feel like this is a one-way street but I love her to bits. I have called every day during her pregnancy to check that she is OK. I can't possibly entertain the idea of cutting her or anybody else in my family off. DH would love the idea as he is certain that my depression worsens when I spend any time with my family.

I also have a terrible relationship with food and comfort eating. Food = love and I'm convinced as a child I had to get it from somewhere. My mother would try to bribe me to lose weight but I have never succeeded on a diet.

A few posts back, someone mentioned anger and I really find that I have this huge violent rage that is unmasked whenever I come off my anti-depressants (am on the lowest dose I've been on for over a year at the moment) and I take this out on DSs and DH. I hate myself for this but find that once I am in this mindset, I can't get out of it. What is really sad as well is that I realise that I'm turning into my mother - distant, contemptuous relationship with husband, emotionally not available for my kids. How can I stop this ?

Apologies for the muddledness of this. Am crying as I type and not sure that I should even be allowed to be a mum...

Sorry you are feeling so low Gloriana. I would bet that you are a far better mum than you realise or give yourself credit for. The fact that you have insight into your relationships shows that you are not turning into your mother and that you can change things for yourself and your family.

I can't really think of anything to add to what I said in my last mammoth post [everyone breathes sigh of relief] but didn't want you to think that no-one was here for you.

Message withdrawn

hello everyone, i have not had the time to come on here recently, what with my son being poorly, thankfully he is on the mend now.
i would like to thank you all for your personal posts to me, and i will also answer all of you individually when i have some "me" time (hopefully tonight)
but just wanted to say, that although i am still pretty down, and still feel slightly uneasy about pouring my heart out here, i am a little calmer, and am so so grateful to all of you.
hope that you all feel ok and a quick welcome to gloriana.
people are lovely here, you are in good company xx

hi all, am back today from my counselling session. The time goes so quickly with her. I think I have been bottling things up all week and it all came out today. I cried twice before I even went to see her at things I heard on the news this morning and an article i read involving children. My feelings are so close to the surface it doesn't take much to trigger some sort of emotion.

I can relate to gloriana and smithfield re siblings. Unfortunately I have made the sad decision that I have to for the time being cease contact with both my sisters. I have realised that as adults they continue to treat me as they did when we were children. ie with no respect, understanding love or compassion. They have upset and hurt me a lot over this issue with my parents and I have realised that clinging onto a relationship with them was doing me no good at all and was causing me more anxiety and worry rather than bringing me any sort of happiness.

I hope that one day, perhaps once they have both had children of their own and maybe have more of an understanding of how I feel we might be able to build a relationship, but until then I feel that they are as 'toxic' in their own way as my parents are and I need to avoid them for my own good. It's heartbreaking to have to do this as I feel they are as much victims of my parents as I am, but until they gain some kind of self awareness and insight into themselves and about our family's reality we will always be so far apart that a relationship will be impossible.

I feel doubly sad as I feel we have all missed out on so much, we could have been so close as sisters, both as children and as adults. And now it is entirely possible that my DC's and my sisters' future children will miss out on relationships with each other. Unfortunately it seems that the 'poison' from our parents reaches everywhere and it is up to each individual as to whether they make a choice to 'detox' or not. My sisters at the moment don't even know they have been poisoned so it may be a long, long time or even never before they decide to go on a detox programme.

I am surprised at myself that I have been able to make this decision, i know i couldn't have contemplated it even 6 months ago, I was so desperate to maintain some sort of relationship with them. I think it shows how much stronger I have become in myself that i don't depend on them for any sort of happiness or need their validation or approval. My previous counsellor said that one of the aims of my therapy was to enable me to become 'autonomous' and I think this is kind of what he meant. That I should be self approving/validating and not need the approval of others or be dependent on others. Although that doesn't mean I don't have any feelings for them, as I know I do still care about my sisters, but to be around them or in contact with them is simply not good for me.

Once again, sorry for the ramble, there so much going on in my head, I can't seem to stop once I start typing.

Gloriana, I just wanted to say that I know exactly what you mean about this 'huge' rage that you feel. I was exactly the same, i used to just suddenly 'blow up' and go berserk at DH or DD (never at DS for reasons I understand now but too long to explain here). But contrary to what you have probably been told all your life, there is nothing wrong with feeling rage. It is an emotion just like all our other emotions. The only problem with rage is if it is directed at the wrong person.

I very slowly, as I have gone along this journey, started realising that my rage was being triggered by events and people in my life today (ie often DD and DH), but the rage itself was rage from my childhood that had been kept bottled up for years as I was never allowed to express it as a child. My rage should have been directed at my parents and my sisters, but i had bottled it up for so long i had forgotten who had caused it in the first place. Alice Miller talks about this a lot in all her books, she calls it 'transference' ie when you transfer rage that should be directed at say your mum onto your DD.

I recommend, if you feel ready to do so, that you read some of Alice Miller's books, and also Toxic Parents and Divorcing A Parent. They will all give you some insight into where your rage is coming from and help you release the rage without directing it at your DH and DC's.

Thank you all so much for your kind welcome here - I can't describe how much of a safe haven this feels like.

1+1 - thank you for your recommendations - I will look into the books you've suggested. Is there any 1 book of Alice Miller's that would be the best place to start?

Had a blow out last night - sobbing to DH after writing on MN. Feel SO much better today so thank you for 'unblocking' me!! Feels so much more normal to be actually talking to my husband rather than just conforming to my training and bottling everything up.

Have put in my daily phone call to pg sister today which she has ignored - after telling me she would call me back yesterday (so I didn't speak to her yesterday either). What is wrong with me that this matters? If a friend chooses not to call back immediately I don't take it as a personal insult whereas with my sister, this is what it is. She says she 'adored' me as a child but it's certainly not the case now. She makes me feel that I am not worthy of her because I am overweight and not as rich as her. When I have lost weight, she is much more keen to have me over to dinner and introduce me to her friends.

Have also just found out that she has invited mum & dad over to Sunday lunch - they live about 50 miles away but she lives a mile away from me. Why aren't I invited? So sick of having this kind of thing in my head...

Hi gloriana, So glad that this thread could help you.
REgarding your family, I think from reading your post, the next move would be to try to distance yourself from your family a little. You wont be being selfish- we have all had it drummed into us that we were selfish when in fact we were always at the beck and call of our mothers and siblings. So just try not to put yourself open to so much hurt from them. I suppose its about changing how you think. You absolutely <span class="italic">cant change the way they behave but you can change the way you react to it.
You sister must know how much you care, and if she doesnt know by now, shes never going to know IYSWIM.

Hi ladies, haven't had time to read what has happended in my abscence.

I got back from my Hoffman course yesterday, its lovely to be back with my family and I am very conscious of what a lovely DH and boys I have.

It is too early to give a full report, but I hope that I have resolved my issues with my parents and am looking forward to seeing them in a week or so. In addition I have fully realised the self loathing that I have been carrying around with me and how it has been sabotaging my life. I intend to be better to myself. Also I have discovered more about myself and what sort of person I really am.

It was hard work (an understatement) and you do have to do the work yourself, though there is someone to catch you when you fall. But the work that they do is amazing and done with care, compassion and totally non-judgemental.

Big hugs, and if anyone is interested I am happy to ask any questions. But in the meantime the website is www.hoffmaninstitute.co.uk/

Hi everyone, just wanted to say that I think you are right Sakura and that I need to distance myself but I find it so hard as I want to be a part of my family. Will try harder though

Kaz, the Hoffman course sounds very interesting. I'm going to read the web site and then come back with questions. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Hope everyone else is feeling well.

Hi all, I'm a newbie to this thread, god you all seem to be able to analyse your past and family so well. Unfortunately both of my parents are dead, my Mum died just over a year ago and I have been so mixed up ever since, sorry I don't know if this is the right place.

I have 4 sisters, mostly they seem to think our upbringing was terrible, I was shocked to hear this tbh. I was the youngest by 7 years, they all seem to think I had the best of things, and are resentful of me. I don't really talk to them that much ( live 200 miles away) but I have a growing awareness that my family is totally fucked up.

The thing is I find it hard to remember and analyse events from my childhood, I'm kind of in limbo. Like I remember my Mum as loving, but she also went on days long sulks in which she would speak to noone (she then wondered why I would take to my room for days as a teenager). My dad to me always favoured my next older sister, and once even said to me "if you lost weight you would look more like xxx". My Dad often said disparaging things to me mostly about my appearance, and my parents split when I was 15.

I don't know I have such little confidence in my own opinion I can't even decide wether my childhood was good or bad aaagh.

Welcome havalina - don't know if you've read the whole thread but I think someone mentions that we are all at different stages in our journeys so some have more insight than others as to what might help. There are normally compelling reasons why you would want to sort out what has happened in the past and it's usually if the past is still affecting you. For me it's about my irrational rage and the ensuing depression so I know that if I don't sort out what's going on with my family, then I will never be able to cope off anti-depressants. Is there a particular reason why you want to go over your childhood?

Sending you warm wishes that your confidence returns

Gloriana- I have a lot of rage too. Mainly aimed at DH actually, but sometimes ds cops it as well.

Although, with ds, (mainly because I then identify with his hurt at my over-reaction)I am usually overwhelmed with guilt in this instance and I do apologise.....hardly ever apologise to dh though.

I think I do project onto dh the same way my mother did on to me. Someone (i think it was Kaz) mentioned replicating relationships from the past.

Also recently I began to think about my anger as a defence mechanism. I come from parents who criticised and attacked my very being so I learnt to defend against this by becoming quite angry and defensive. Its an ' I'll get you before you get me' way of responding.

I know deep down I don't feel loveable, so subconciously I dont think I really believe dh does love me and so I ward off any closeness to avoid the pain of any further rejection.

Havalina- 'The thing is I find it hard to remember and analyse events from my childhood'

This is quite normal- once again a defense against feelings of hurt, anger and pain.

I actually 'did' have a good memory for childhood events. It's almost like I'd built up a log of events to use against my parents over the years.

I then confronted my mum at one point and she denied everything and then began to attack my memory in general. since that point my memory of past events have faded and I myself began to question myself again as to wether any of it was real.
If they have been abusive to you though as a child deep down in your core you know it.
Ignoring you for days on end is not normal and to a child it is very damaging as they believe something in them causes that withdrawal of love (as they see it).

Which reminds me.....

Someone posted about people not believing them or being on their side. I just remembered how I used to constantly say 'but is it just me?' 'maybe its all my fault?'. That was until dh saw my mother's abusive behaviour first hand. Finally I had someone (completely normal and functioning)who said..... 'No that's absolutely not your fault and yes of course I believe you!'
My Dh always says now 9with a hint of humour) that he saw the devil that day.

For me that was an incredibly healing moment.
So people listening and believing in you is important,just as they do on this thread.

Hi, all, hope you had a good weekend.

Smithfield, hi, hope things feel a bit more settled now with your new baby. What you said about using anger as a defence mechanism applies to me as well. I realise now i used to act 'tough' like I didn't care about anything or anyone and that nothing anyone said could hurt me. In fact the exact opposite was the truth, so many things my parents and sisters said and did did hurt me very much, but i used anger to cover up the pain. Why I didn't let the pain show is still slightly unclear to me, I suppose it must have been because I knew or felt there was nobody who was interested or cared if I had been hurt.

I saw my therapist today. I had been feeling really quite happy and upbeat the last few days. I feel so liberated now that I have told both my sisters, in a roundabout way I suppose, that I want a break from them for the forseeable future. I feel I am finally free of the way they make me feel, from my middle sisters catty comments and remarks, her subtle mocking and lastly but not least from feeling hurt at being left out by them. I know their mistreatment of me would have continued all our lives if I had carried on maintaining a relationship with them at this point. My therapist said it was possible that over time they would come to understand me more but at the moment I am quite happy with the situation. It is as if the external picture of me and my family now matches the internal reality I have always felt and known inside. ie I am alone and have no family. Even though it appears that I have 2 parents and 2 sisters, actually I am alone as none of them care about me and i have no bond or attachment with any of them. Sorry, i'm not explaining this very well, hope you get the gist, if you've read this far, don't blame you if you gave up ages ago, i know i'm rambling again.

But, to get to the point of why i am posting now. I felt upset on the way home at something the therapist said. She said that in all her 18 years of working as a therapist she had never met someone who had done so much 'work' on her own in relation to this type of issue or someone who understood it all so intelligently. What she said has really upset me because I remember my parents telling me that when i was at school my teachers thought that I was very intelligent and clever enough to win a scholarship to a really good local private school. Years later I remember I asked my parents why they didn't actually enter me for the scholarship exams and their answer was because they couldn't be bothered/didn't have time/it would have been too much of a hassle to enter me .

I guess what i feel sad about, and i'm sorry if this sounds like i'm blowing my own trumpet which i really am not intending to do, is the loss of so much potential I feel I had as a child in what i could have made of myself and achieved, if my parents had loved me and saw it as their job to help me achieve my potential. Instead, as i have always felt, they just saw me as a bother, a hassle, a nuisance. I remember there were so many things i wanted to at least try as a child but i was never ever encouraged or given the opportunity to do any of these things. My parents were not well off when we were children so i know money was one of the issues, but more than that i know there was just a complete lack of will or motivation on either of my parents' part to spend any time or effort on me. I know that i still have time ahead of me to try out lots of things but i still feel so sad at the loss of potential i have suffered especially when all the energy I did have was instead spent in just trying to survive my dad's abuse and my mother's neglect. My youngest sister achieved so much more than me and I feel sure it is because my parents actually seem to genuinely care about her and were always behind her in whatever she did, they took an interest in her school work etc unlike me and have always encouraged her and told her she was bright and intelligent. I feel i was also bright and intelligent as a child, but my parents did nothing to encourage me in any way. I feel i have achieved what i have in spite of them and despite them rather than because of them or with their help and support.

Sorry, i know i'm rambling and not being very clear, but i suppose i'm mourning a loss from my childhood, which like all our losses, can never be recovered or regained. It's gone forever and is something i will never forgive my parents for.

Message withdrawn

hi podmog, it is so sad, it's hard to believe our parents could behave in the way they did, it is so completely opposite to how i intend to bring up my DC's.

I know i will eventually come to terms with this loss and look forward to what i can still achieve, but to ruin an innocent child's potential like that is a crime.

Good luck with your counselling btw, i know you mentioned in your previous posts you feel scared, but there's nothing wrong in feeling scared. Your counsellor will support you through the difficult bits and you will feel so much better for having gone through it. I guess the saying 'no pain no gain' is sadly true here.

Hi Maisemor, how are you?

Oneplusone

"It is as if the external picture of me and my family now matches the internal reality I have always felt and known inside. ie I am alone and have no family. Even though it appears that I have 2 parents and 2 sisters, actually I am alone as none of them care about me and i have no bond or attachment with any of them."

That about sums it up for me, thanks for that!

It is hard giving up family members apart from mother and father. I gave up my sister, she has written to me recently (scroll down a looooooonnnnngggg way )...my therapist bright idea is that we get back in contact and I teach her how to behave as a normal human being not his actual words but you get the gist. Feels very nice the idea of having some loving nurturing family around, but often loving and nurturning is not the reality

Hi Pogmog

I agree with the lost potential too. Feel as if I have lost my childhood, teenage years etc...grieved for it all too...

Hi 3Nab

I worry about front door not being locked constantly and dd being asleep upstairs...always have her monitor on to listen in... my tactless mil used to joke about kidnapping dd...because she thinks she does not see her enough (since when is once a week not enough?...there again sil kids sleep over 4 nights a week , actually I can see her point ). I hope your mother does not contact you. I still, despite my realisation my mother won't change, expect her not to send anything...try to expect the contact and what you will do when you get a letter. Do you think she will have changed? Practice detachment...you can choose to get involved with your mother again via a letter or you can choose to bin it. And tell mil in no uncertain terms not to divulge any information again. YANBU to do that.

Pages, hi!! Huuuuggggeeee post! Blue ribbon to you [presents it...shakes hand..]. Therapist wants me to be wondergirl and through my saintly waltz thro their little mad world I will twirl a wand and they will all stop what they are doing with a wide eyed look as reality caves in on them and realise what twunts they have been all their lives to me and start behaving like normal human beings...just waiting for therapist to have a moment of realisation now bloody pillocks the lot of them . BTW therapist sees 'hope' in my sisters letter. In one line of it actually [rolls eyes for good measure]. Be glad not to have someone messing with my reality...have you had any contact recently? And how is work? And if you have said, sorry but you should not type so much ...I'm just skimming here...!

Hi Havalina

Toomanystuffedbears mother died about 27 years ago...she still has problems. Something my therapist said to me recently was about favoured children...the golden child has all the good qualities assigned to them...but to do this the bad qualities need to be assigned elsewhere..so there is a constant flow between the good and bad child. I was the bad child...and was made to be the complete opposite of my perfect sister. Hope that made sense? Long silences is a form of emotional abuse/emotional neglect. It means that your mothers love is taken from you, as we all have a primeval instict to be looked after by our parents to 'survive' in the wild, that is like a death sentance almost...so it has a tremendous impact on the child it is done too. Your sisters thinking you had it easy...well how do they know? What is important is your experience. You could write out your life story and not tell them the full depth of your unhappiness...they are discounting/invalidating your ability to have feelings...don't let them do this...they are just as valid as theirs.

Hi Gloriana

Actions, not words. She 'says' she adored you. What have her actions in childhood and now say to you?

Matildax...that took some courage to type and post I felt quite horrified reading it... hugs to you if that is okay...we believe you xxxx

Hi Flight

Your mother (re email) sounds like my 2 yr old...'sorry mummy' then throwing something at me again 5 min later! Not very sincere if she keeps doing the same thing over and over again. And the 'I do love you'. Do you feel loved? Or smothered? Good reply I thought... How is the house hunt going?

And finally

Hi Kaz...you sound so calm...so what did you do? I'm v curious...read the website you gave but it gave no details...how have things been since?

Right off now...don't think I've quite made the blue ribbon this time best wait for another letter from my sister...

Thoughts on Food and Comfort eating (may be of interest to those who have just mentioned it...)

I remember always being hungry. I was not starved, there was food in the house but it was jealously guarded by all my family. Everyone had 'their' food in the cupboard. If you touched it, let alone ate it there was hell to pay...so often there was food available, but it was 'untouchable'. I thought this normal until I went round to ex'es house on a regular basis and everyone there being bewildered when I would 'ask' to use the bread, and if it was okay to use 'that' loaf, would any crisps be okay? What about this paste? Is this anybodies...ex and mother used to get a bit bemused/exasperated about all the questions/permission/anal politeness about it all...

Secondly (may as well list ) my mother would serve us tea anywhere between 7 and 8 pm. I used to be starving hungry coming home from school...and the first things I always asked was 'what's for tea? what time will it be ready?'. Then endlessly badger my mother about when it would be ready...she always underestimated by at least 30 minutes and they seemed endless...

Thirdly my mother seemed to take malicious pleasure in the fact she made me wait for my tea until she had served my dad and sister first...then she would finally dish up mine.

Fourthly I used to be very frustrated and angry with the portions too...dad (obviously he was a full grown man...and at the time of this I was by then a teenager) always had a much bigger portion of food. Despite me always complaining I never got a bigger portion and there were generally no left overs so I was left hungry after the meal.

So to sum up...I guess I comfort eat for the 'inner hug' I get from eating (read that somewhere!) something stodgy and to the point I feel full.

I often panic if there is not enough food to eat when I'm out and about. I'm very aggressive about getting enough to eat at a buffet, often leaving lots on my plate, but the fear of being left hungry makes me pile food on.

Also if food was something I had to compete over and was often withheld, then I suppose that is a link too. Eating for survival?

I can't think of anything more profound...just it was a resource to be fought over and won. Now I don't have to fight for it I'm still left with the urge to eat while I can to completion, and to have as many 'treats' as I allow myself to buy as that was another resource that was limited at times.

I did also go through binge eating from about 18 to 26 having takeaways most nights of the week as my mothers cooking was a) horrid b) repetitive c) late at night d) not enough...did gain weight as well...

Right better go...suns come out! Hopefully I shall do better dieting getting my food obcessions out on this post!

Hi Ally,

I am doing really well, at the moment. So sweet of you to ask.
Suddenly realised the other day that I when I think of my family I no longer start shaking or get uncomfortable in some way or another. It just made me smile from one ear to the other.
I still get very when I receive emails or phonecalls from my little sister as she keeps complaining about everything that is wrong with her life and her ex, and this and that.
I have gotten very good at just skimming through her emails and then just forgetting about them. Also good at saying that I have to go when I have had enough of her moaning on the phone. [stops and polishes my halo for a second]
She is selling her flat and she is very likely going to be "homeless" for approx. 2 months. Her first choice is going to be asking our parents whether she can stay with them. She had barely finished the sentence before I cut her off with "I really don't want to know about that option".
Like my parents it is like she just can't seem to look at the positive side of things in any given situation.

I just realised that it is 2 years ago soon that I fell out with them (my son's birthday), and looking back the last 1 1/2 have been really, really good.
We have almost cleared our debts.
We are finally looking at buying our own place again.
And I am happy, and trying hard (but not as hard as I did at the beginning) to remain happy and positive.
Yipppiii 2008 is indeed turning out GREAT.

Anyway enough about me, I am never going to win the blue ribbon anyway. [clapping at Pages who looks stunning with the blue ribbon].

hello everyone,
Maisemore, i have mentioned in a previous posting that i have seen several councillors (sp) and more recently psychologists,, but find talking about this so so very uncomfortable, and also feel sick watching other peoples reactions, when i do so, so "talking" on here, will probably help so much more than any professional could do. I think a few i have seen think i am weird anyway because i do not hate my grandfather, despite everything,
I am not stupid and what he has done, is horrific, but he was there for me as a child, and i would spend hours talking to him, and helping him (he went blind in his twenties, so we used to cut up his food on his plate, and tell him where everything was, like 12 oclock, veg and 3 oclock potatatos etc...) I also used to listen to his audio books with him. and he taught me how to read braille in his books. he seemed interested in me, and made me feel special. (unlike my mum and dad)
the bad stuff used to happen when my nana would go to the shops, and we would be left alone, I did not even realize it was wrong but i was told that i must not tell, as something bad could happen to him.
obviously i did not want that to happen.

Smithfield, i dont feel very brave!!! infact since posting i have been feeling really strange, and have had a few rather scary panic attacks, i am also not sleeping well,i think this could be, because so many different and powerful emotions have come to the surface. its funny because i rarely talk about any of this with even my bestest friends, and have asked those who know not to mention it, as i feel very embarrassed about it. my partner also, knows not to mention anything, as it makes me really uncomfortable, and yet here i am posting on here!!! i myself dont really understand what allowed me to "speak" on here!!!!

Oneplusone, i know i that i will live with this forever, but at the moment my emotional state is very fragile, and what makes me cry and affects me the most, is how this subconciously affects my immediate family, i think i remember reading here, that you have a strained relationship with your dd, well i do with my dd2 age 5, and im sure she is the one most affected by my mood swings, and anger.(i am starting to try really hard, to spend quality time with just me and her, and we both seem to be getting something from it, she is so loveable and kind i just hope that she doesnt see me as some fuck up, when she is older.)
i will take your advice and have a look at some alice miller books, and the toxic parents one also.
by the way i am so glad your councelling sessions are going well. you seem very positive at the moment. good for you

sakura, i know my mum knows, she must do, but i also know that it is pointless to ask her to acknowledge anything, because she just will not, i feel like i am disgusting to her, and she can hardly bear to look at me, i think i am a hinderance to her personal happiness, and she feels uncomfortable around me, and prefers to be with my older sisters. im ok though, i am pretty used to it, but would really have loved a mum like what a few of my friend have got, and the closeness they share. never mind, its not that important really.
sometimes i get really angry, and think why me? my childhood experiences have obviously affected who i am today, and my relationships with my peers, family and most importantly my own children. my partner deserves an award for putting up with me!!
i havent replied to everyone, but i want you all to know that your messages mean so much to me, and having you all here, is i think going to be crucial over the next few weeks. i think you are all wonderful people with good hearts and am so glad to have found you all.
till next time, take care. all my love to all of you xx

Hi Havalina,
Yes, as Ally mentioned, my mom died in 1980 (Dad-in 1998 btw).
My oldest sister was the bad child.
Middle sister was the golden child.
And that made me the invisible child: unloved, emotionally disconnected (so I have difficulty having, let alone expressing, feelings; or communicating in general for that matter).

We all have different perspectives on our upbringing and even specific events are remembered differently.

My Oldest Sister is my "enlightened witness" and she is aware of the truth of our past and has validated my feelings. Middle Sister, however, must play 'Happy Hockey Sticks' and be the Queen of her myth. Middle Sister used me to elevate her own sense of self-worth by diminishing me at any and every opportunity. She presumed the matriarchal role- OS was the bad child, still (she did not hesitate to judge her) and I was her golden child, giving me compliments on what a good parent I am(who is she to judge?-she has no children). For years, I knew she irritated me. It took me ages to put words to how she made me feel, this thread was invaluable. MS was indeed toxic to me. I am now not in touch with her (not emotionally anyway)-except superficial cards (birthday and holiday) and I just sent her a couple of pictures of my new dd2 with a one line note:
Hi
Here are some pictures of dd2.
Take care,
TMSB

Sorry to digress,
Just try to figure out how much toxic behavior you are willing to put up with from any one (not necessarily just family). Know for sure though, that the price is very high for subjecting yourself to toxic people. They will tear you down emotionally. The erosion may be subtle but it will build up over time especially if you are not exactly or specifically aware of what is happening-as was the circumstance with my MS. Her 'treats', tickets, expensive gifts---her 'mothering' me-except she would analyze and evaluate my circumstances in lieu of any sense of empathy - especially during my 'high risk (age)' pregnancy...made it hard to see that she was actually keeping me diminished in a subordinate role-denying my perspective or feelings regularly (TMSB still invisible). Very tricky. But that is why I had to make the break, and I feel no remorse and know it was the right thing for me to do.

Matildax - what a terribly sad story, all mixed up good memories and horrific memories with the same person. I am not suprised that you feel it difficult to talk to counsellors about what happended to you. It seems to me that you have good memories of your grandad, but if you access them as that you feel guilty for feeling that way. How the hell do you start to unravel that??

I have no answers, but by the sounds of it you need some very specialist counselling. Is it possible to research counsellors who have experience in childhood abuse cases??

From the point of what I have just done, the Hoffman process would allow you to absolutely hate and despise him for everything that he did to you. Then when you have no anger left, you would be given the tools to forgive and then rebuild yourself as the person that you really are. I am not recommending it but forgiveness is a powerful tool as it allows you to dispose of all the negative thought patterns that have been holding you back. It is a safe environment where you are with a group, you do the work yourself but there is a counsellor to steer you in the right direction and catch you if you fall. Big hugs.