"But we took you to stately homes" part 3

[oneplusone]

Sorry for starting part 3 if it has already been started but i logged on just now and found the previous thread has reached 1000 posts. And my title is not very inspiring, Ally90, please help!

AN, do you have to ask your DH to say something to you FIL? ? I don't know what others will say, this is just my thought on it: your FIl is an ignorant twunt. He has crossed a boundary. You are capable of handling this on your own: Tell your DH what you propose to do and make him understand that this is what you want to do and be-it-on-your-own-head kind of thing.

Then when an appropriate moment arises, ie your FIL is round, take him to one side, in the kitchen, the hall, the garden, wherever, and stare straight at him and say calmly: "if you EVER do that to me again, or touch me in ANY way, I will squeeze your bollocks in front of everyone so tightly you will scream for mercy. Now keep your hands to yourself and your thoughts on your electricity bill and fuck off."

Tell your DH exactly what you are going to say and enjoy saying it. Calmly. With a smile in fact. Taking responsibility - and knowing that your DH is in cohorts with you -can be a good feeling and take the weight of responsibility of DH.

But as I say, I am new on this thread and maybe not as far down the line in terms of dealing with this stuff as others of you are - so my thoughts might be unhelpful.

Only a thought.

Great thought lesnuits.

LesNuits, that made me laugh but I know I would never have the courage to do it.

Itati, if you did nothing wrong then none of us are going to say anything horrible. If something was done to you then that was not your fault and we won't think less of you for it.

Shame is a horrible effect of abuse and seems to be really common. By keeping it secret it is like agreeing that you should be ashamed. You don't have to keep it secret though because it was the perpetrator who did wrong and who should be ashamed, not you. You don't have to stay silent to protect them - they don't deserve it. Don't accept that their feelings are more important than yours and should be protected. If you carry on doing this it is hard to have self esteem. You are important enough to say how you felt/feel.

Lesnuits- I really laughed at that too. I thought how free-ing that would be to be able to say what we feel, when we feel it.

It was interesting what you said about the letter. I guess I was intentionally keeping my feelings 'true' ones hidden because that is when my mother goes in for the kill. 'Ooo someones feelings (rubs hands) lets piss on those straight away'.

Yes I think Im realising how powerful my mother is in my mind. Hence the anxiety.
She 'has' actually left shitty answerphone messages before, but only on my mobile....so only I can hear them.
This is why she 'only' rings during the day. She wants me to recieve her abuse whilst Im isolated.

So yes in that respect I see a similarity to what you are saying about your mother. It is important for them to be 'percieved' by those in their circle to be 'perfect'. That way they can ensure it is 'you' that is percieved as the problem and not them.
I am convinced my mother has NPD.

I think you give me way too much hudos with regard to my children. I love them yes. But I am petrified I am going to damage them.
They say you cant give what you never recieved yourself. This bothers me greatly.

Lesnuits- you should try reading 'Toxic Parrents' thats what I began with.

kudos-*

But they very fact that we think we might damage them is a good starting point. All parents damage their children to some extent - because humans are fallible and don't do everything right all the time. We have a very clear notion however, of what is definitely damaging. Therefore we know what we should steer clear of.

My sister has overcompensated with her children because of what we went through with our parents: she has given them a very liberal upbringing and has treated them a bit like mates instead of little beings to be bossed around. i used to think this was the wrong way to deal with them. But in fact they have all turned out to be lovely, balanced, full of healthy srlf-esteem, able to make their own decisions, functional in adult company, have boyfriends and girlfriends..ordinary dramas. They are lovely kids.

So it can be done. Don't be so afraid that you might do damage. You are another generation and yes while we may be deeply affected, we are not the SAME as our parents..we are different people altogether with different flesh and bones. It's the fact that you are not ignorant about what they did that is the Main Thing. Over-compensate away. What damage can you do?? Love them to death??

I have heard of this book toxic parents. I might buy it. My mum defo has NPD. This is why I have gone for N partners...if you were raised by NPD parent/s you are more likely to go for N partners.

Gd it's all so bloody tiring and too late in life to be dealing with it. Wish I was in Greece drinking ouzo.

Sorry your mother leaves shit messages on your mobile by the way. What a cowardess.

Lesniuts-Gd it's all so bloody tiring and too late in life to be dealing with it. Wish I was in Greece drinking ouzo.

That's what was earth shattering for me having kids...Id normally drink myself into oblivion...and now I cant

This is an interesting site here

And highly recommend 'trapped in the mirror' Elan Golomb.

Sorry I meant to say how sad I felt reading about what your dad said. He was a very weak man (at best)- You deserved better.
Its strange how the parent who is our hero in childhood often (if not always) turns out to be equally damaging.

(((((Smithfield)))))

You are showing great self awareness, taking positive action and looking after yourself, and your children. You can't be doing any better than that! Other than changing your phone number...really really advise you get it changed...makes a world of difference...and try to change ringtone too...I still jump a mile when I hear the phone ring...or the doorbell. It costs nothing to do, takes 24 hours and then just the nusience of letting people know it has changed. And I totally get 'cowering in a corner' your not the only one to feel this way...you will feel angry, hemmed in, frightened, saddened...and a whole host of other things with her persisting. Remember you stood up to her well last week, she will not have liked that. You can stand up to her, and you won't go running back before doing anything...always bounce off us first to keep true to your reality.

Re the letter. What is your aim? To tell her what she did to you and how it has affected you. To ask her to stop contacting you. To ask for separation/complete divorce? You don't have to send the first draft of your letter...work out an aim/s, write it, put it to one side for a few days/week, then reread alter it if you want too...please don't feel pressured to send something immediately as I did. You have already told her you don't want to talk to her...chances are she won't listen to your letter either. But sending a letter won't neccessarily make any difference...remember this is the same woman who was arguing with you while you were in labour I don't think listening or empathy are her strong points. Actually reading what Attila said...I agree...write letters, don't send...you could even post on here to get a different response to what your mother would give you...?

AN - Yep we're protective And I feel you are protecting your FIL detrimental to your own wellbeing. I would be extremely uncomforable with any of what he is doing. You are merely describing his actions, not slagging him off. And I still feel his actions are not respectful. I feel you are trying to make it all right and don't want to hurt his feelings, just like you didn't want to hurt your gf? ((((((AN}}}}}}} I suspect this is very hard for you...and there are things I don't want to face in my life at times...just want to make it okay so I don't have to go through more hurt/pain/rejection...so what you do is of course entirely up to you. Please keep posting about it...that way you can get encouragement and support to change things if you chose

Lesnuits - your posts are refreshing . Actually you do have interesting thoughts...and I've already said you have done well to get this far...especially to recognise your dad's 'tone of voice'. I also suspect our mothers were separated at birth my mother does 'saintlike'. Why do you think your parents are trying to contact you now after all these years? Age?

Itati - Thank you

I can understand your reluctance...there are things I have not talked about as it is just so humiliating to this day Did you get the response you needed from your dh?

I can assure you that any of us on this thread will offer you support and validation for what it was that happened. In all the time this thread has been going (2 years in Nov) there has only been one bad poster...and she was hounded off sharpish and did not come back. You can get a different experience here to the experience you had all those years ago ((((((itati)))))). I don't know what else to say about your courtcase...what support is offered for people in your position?

allyxx

ooh I sound a cowbag Lesnuits...just reread what I put...I like your swearing I tend not to swear on here....swear like a trooper in real life!

Ally I know exACTLy why my parents are hounding for contact now: because they have a grandson they have not seen. Because they never saw me pregnant. Because people they know will be asking "how is your new grandson??" and they are having to lie - by saying things like "oo he is so gorgeous and doing really well" and they need to be able not to lie to make themselves feel ok.

Of course my mother doesn't call - she gets my dad to do her dirty work for her. So he rings...then his old shit kicks in, like the first time he rang he just COULD NOT HELP HIMSELF: he said "how are you". ...mm mm .."did you breastfeed". Because he is a freaky weirdo with wrong feelings for me and it probably turned him on - the idea that I did something with my breasts.

So now they are getting a bit frantic and my dad can sense my mother's unease at having to lie more than she would normally find acceptable, so they need to do just one journey down here, to see me and ds - so that they can go home and start acting like Nice People who have genuinely met their grandson.

But I am not willing anymore to give in to their needs. So I am able to just say outright to them (well, him Who Doeseth the Dirty Work) a big fat N O.
No you can't come down - because i am hanging out washing or have the alphabet to write backwards or a single daisy to iron. And I am glad they live 300 miles away. ha ha. He said today "we could just pop in". What, and then drive all the way home again?

Geography is important when you have been abused I am finding. I am finding it even better being able to say that in print. Because i have thought of moving back somewhere that would mean me being half an hour from them (because shitbag H has buggered off). But I think the safest place for me is here...a) because shitbag won't come back here because he would be too embarrassed and b) because i would be gong back into the dragon-pit moving anywhere back near them (parents).

Smithfield, AN, sorry to do my stuff on here when you are getting help and working stuff through with the posters here. I can post for you. I can. I am good supportive person.

ally, I swear like a pitpony in real life and on here and everywhere, even at SureStart! I think it's just a glottal-stop thing - swear words have lots of consonants and it feels goooood.

I don't swear in front of ds though {blush]

Crikey I am still quite with them aren't I. Well, I feel I am protecting my son. I never want to see him in my mother's arms, or my dad - in case he takes him upstairs and examines his willy, or my mother secretly whispers in his baby-ears "you are son of a she-devil".

And actually i feel quite normal now I am not on contact and can just say at te moment when they are trying to knock my door down. ..sorry, but you can't come in.

Does that make sense?

I think my language is not as sorted as the others of you on here...my emotions are similar but I verbalise it all rather angrily?? We can all look out for each other though (I hope.

lesnuits- I love the way you post its fab.
AND please keep posting...the longer the post the better. Everytime I read someone elses post, or right to someone here...it helps.

Geography 'is' important...12000 miles was my best yet, hopefully I will learn to stop readjusting the geography and pinging back...back down to 200 currently dammit.

yes your angry, and with every right to be.

How long since the split with the ex?

AN - with regard to FIL could you confront him yourself? Do you feel you could?

write not right*

Lesnuits - swearing is very good your posts are angry...but that is healthy. And I definately want to hear more about you... esp about your mother...did she call you a 'she devil' ?!?! My mother too is very unhappy about having to lie...

Quick summary of my story

Emotional abuse by mother and sister, ie playground bullying, giggling, snide comments, sarcasam, taking micky out of me etc etc my dad was a bystander too it all. I had my 'realisation' when I was 16 and got my GCSE's and realised my mother and sister had been lying to me all my life (sister said outright, my mothers actions said I was fat, ugly, stupid, clumsy, said wrong things, did wrong things etc etc etc). I broke contact with my mother feb 06, when I was 8mths pg, and aug 06 with my father as he kept trying to keep me in contact with my mother. My sister broke contact about 04/05...I suspect because of jealousy.

My mother when I was pg, I cut down her visits to once every 3 wks. In one phone conversation she put on her broken near tears voice and said she had to tell white lies to the neighbours and pretend she saw me more often than she did... feel angry just thinking of it actually...

Do you feel like telling more about your childhood? I'm curious because you mother sounds quite like mine...and it may help you too, to finally share it all? Have you ever told anyone about your childhood?

And I think your mother may have Borderline Personality disorder. Google it...there are 4 subgroups to it...Waif/Hermit/Queen/Witch. My mother is more a waif...pathetic small helpless child...but she can do queen and witch too...this website is interesting also BPD. Explains more about it, and a very good message board. They have interesting concepts like 'hoovering' which is what your dad is doing now! And mothers are called 'momsters'...obviously american...but self explainatory!

better go...didn't mean to spend this long posting

Hope your doing okay Smithfield, AN, Itati xx

I woke up this morning with knots in my stomach again. I just felt completely anxious and almost paralysed by the thought of starting the day.

Thank god I have the appt tommorrow, and thank god ds is at nursery today.
I think a lot of my anxiety is around not being able to take care of the dc's. I just see the week stretching out ahead of me and feel panic.

I argued with DH last night about MIL. He mad me feel as though my issues (childhood) are behind this and not his mothers actual actions. As in I see MIL, but am seeing my mum instead and experiencing something of my childhood.

He thinks we should sit down and discuss it with her.

I think I have enough to deal with.

He will never see my POV where MIL is concerned to him she is perfect and he just wants us to get along.

Her need to take over is normal to him...'just the irish way' he says. But to me it is stiffling (sp?), and reminds me of being stiffled as a child.

He also says I might be misinterpreting what she says, so when she sighs, because I have declined her help with something and after having asked me another several times, she says 'Oh smithfield, you are so independant aren't you'.

I see this as a negative, he says how do you know if you dont ask her.
Well I see his point to some degree, but I dont find this dialogue easy. I have never been allowed to express my feelings freely. As a result I find it hard to express them constructively. It petrifies me even entering in to this kind of dialogue, because it just spells CONFLICT to me.

I said MIL had let me down badly when the whole family argued (as in his family) and they cut me and DH off for 6 months. I was devastated. Reminded me of my childhood again I guess, we were being punished for simply putting our needs above BIL's.

BIL would not come inside MIL's house when I was in there etc. I suppose this all reminded me of the ganging up mentality from my childhood.

I had been pretty close to my MIL up until this point, but we argued just beforehand as I felt DH was being bullied.
She had said maybe 'I was the controlling one'...this shocked me at the time because I thought that was like something my mum would say. As in the problem isnt us my dear, it is you. So ok as the scapegoat again.

MIL said she hadnt taken sides, but to me it felt like she had by allowing it all to go on. Classic bystander stuff.

Anyway I tried to explain this to DH and he said I should tell his mum this and explain.

Why would I want to open up to this woman? AGAIN? Why would he expect me to?
I tried to talk to her at the time but she didnt want to get involved.

I think I probably did over-react on Saturday but what am I supposed to say, because at the end of the day I dont have enough trust in this woman to explain who she reminded me of and why, and how that made me feel.

Im not expressing myself very well at all. I cant seem to get to the bottom of how I feel even by writing it down.

I guess this is the whole thing with emotional abuse, it so difficult to pinpoint. Im not saying MIL is emotionally abusing me but I find her behaviour disempowering and feel like a child to her not an adult.

Smithfield I think yur DH is beng unreasonable, I really do. Why on earth are YOU meant to confront/talk/open up to her however you or he likes to put it?

He should always be on yur side. Period. because you are his wife. He is acting like a big child by asking you to take responsibility for having it out with her. Is he still afraid of his mummy? He sounds like a big girls blouse to me (sorry, sure he is lovely but ykwim)

Your MIL sounds like she knows perfectly well she is interferring and putting spanner in the works between you two. Which is what a lot of MILs do. But you have something she does NOT have - you have her sons willy and his children (crikey, another mention of willies...something going on there for me I think!!) which are two things she cannot have. So when you feel pissed with her, just smile inside that you have bonked her son and got one over on her BIG time for that.

God I am probably not very helpful. But really, you are not the child here - she is acting like a blasted child, standing by and sighing when you say you don't need her help. How very frustrating. tell her off like a little child...say something like "oh for goodness sake MIL, do stop sighing like Thomas the tank engine. You sound like a little girl who's just been refused a lolly. Now there is something you can do for me - can you take a broom to the kitchen floor? That would really help me out."

Then start singing.

My childhood was chaos. Parents rowing constantly as I said, shouting and bellowing, my brother pooed in his bed quite a bit until he was about 7, my dad whacked me and younger sister a LOT on the arse and it was very painful. He was an old fashioned disciplinarian i guess. But I don't really think that's a good excuse. I longed to have public hair because I thought if I did he wouldn't be able to lift my nightie and whack me. I would be a woman!

I asked them once in the middle of a shouting match to just get divorced and put us out of our misery. They rounded on me. "Dont be ridiculous. We're not getting divorced!" he remembered that for a long time and used to chuckle about it....well I wasn't chuckling. I meant it.

We were all sat round Xmas dinner table once about 18 years ago (when we five kids were still all talking) and between us raked up lots of stories.."remember when dad you did this and you gave bro the belt and you whacked me and sis so hard I had hand prints on my arse..." and he sat there looking all pathetic and said "I don't belieeeeve you. I didnt..did I really? I have no recollection blah blah".

Very bloody annoying.

My oldest bro has had a lot of counselling for it all. And he's in his fifties now - still deeply affected. My mother was absolutely HORRID to him. My relationship with her has imploded over the last year and a half and reached the same stage (ie got nasty) as quickly as it did with him over ten years!

My H left nearly seven weeks agi by the way.
Coping but now brilliantly.

I have looked n great detail at all the borderline personality and NPD stuff - read loads on it now. Becase I think mother is one/has the latter and i think that is why I have chosen the relationships i have - ie crap with freaky narcissistic loving/abandoning men. Because i am used to that kind of dynamic and put up with it...no self-esteem in terms of thinking I deserve a good normal, sane, loving reliable man. Or at least i don't know how to spot them and go for the unreliable nutters instead and keep taking the shit they dish out because I can't see the wood for the trees.

My childhood was just crap really. You know, I can count the number of times when i felt happy on one hand: I have done it! Like when my dad put me on his shoulders and bought me a red bike (must have been about 6). And my mother gave me a doll when i was ill in bed.
Er..forgotten the other three. Ha ha.

I was always ill as a child. Psychosomatic I am sure now, because in adult life I am rarely ill. have the constitution of an Egyptian Ox on steroids.

AN - You are strong enough to say that. Just imagine we are all in the room with you and your FIL and we are right behind you.

Thank you for what you said wrt me. I never realised I daren't say it because I was ashamed.

Deep breath (still scared about who might read and what they might say to this)

When I was abused I was 14 but very immature to the point I didn't really know how babies were made or anything to do with sex and how our bodies change as we grow up. Consequently the abuse was my first experience of anything sexual - good or bad. When I was with my first boyfriend, some of what had happened to me used to come into my head, and I never knew if I was having nice feelings because I was with the boy I loved, or because of what had happened to me. I really was that naive. It continued to affect me as I had boyfriends (not many and for long term with a couple of very short flings ) and I could see the abusers face.

I never knew whether to stop but felt if I did he had won again, but if I carried on did that make me as bad as him? I have been with my husband for 12 1/2 years and even now I sometimes get "Gremlins" when we are making love. DH is utterly amazing and usually knows before I say anything. He cuddles me until I feel better. Sometimes we have to stop completely and other times I feel able to continue being close with my husband. I really want to get past this coming in to my head, squirming whenever I think about what happened to me, and even sometimes calling it up in to my head which I do not understand at all.

Actually, now I have typed that it wasn't as scary as I thought.

I am well aware that I am being very selfish at the moment asking for support without giving any myself. The posts are so long I find it hard to retain the info but promise when I feel stronger I will repay the fabulous support I have received.

Thank you.

BTW I didn't have any nice feelings at all when I was being assaulted. Feel silly I need to post that but felt I needed too.

Hi Smithfield

Re your recent post and this comment:-

"He thinks we should sit down and discuss it with her".

. Cough, splutter also at your DH
I think your DH also needs to read "Toxic Parents".

BTW you may also want to read "Toxic Inlaws" written by Susan Forward as well.

My first reaction to the above utterence he made was,"Yeah right, a triumph of hope over experience". Like most men, he just wants a quiet life, he wants both you and she to get along. He's also been conditioned over the years to accept that what she does is somehow "normal". My second comment is that any discussion will be completely one sided (your DH won't say much if anything and your MIL will thus take over and give you a laundry list of your supposed "shortcomings") so attempting a discussion will just play into her hands even more.

Even my DH, bless his socks, (who would also rather not get involved) sees more wrong these days with his own dysfunctional family than ever before. He still does not give much criticism to his Mother though despite her being the controlling matriarch of that star dysfunctional family, along with being her being "saintly", maintaining perfect image to outside world. His Dad's a classic bystander. DH's primary loyalty though is to me.

I can't stand even being in the same room as my MIL.

your friend in blue stripey socks

Attila x

Itati, Well done for typing the things you were scared to say! I remember how scared I felt the first time I really said something and then how I thought that wasn't so bad, maybe I could do it again more easily next time.

I get the feeling you think that 14 is old enough that you should have stopped the abuser somehow. I was 14 when my gf first molested me and I used to think I should have been old enough/big and strong enough to stop him. My therapist said "Do you know any 14 year olds now?, they are smaller and more vulnerable than you think. When you are young you have a distorted view of how big and powerful you are. You might have thought then that you could have overpowered him, but I don't think you could have".

I didn't actually try to stop him, I was frozen to the spot with fear. Therapist says this also was not my fault. Your elders teach you from a young age that you do what they want and by the time you are bigger and more powerful this is ingrained so you feel scared to go against them. Also the shock of what he was doing just paralysed me.

You might think 14 is old but you were smaller, weaker and with a lot less life experience and experience in dealing with difficult people, and you were up against someone probably more experienced, stronger, manipulative, with whatever mental issues makes people do these things.

Whether you fought back or not, you didn't want him (was it a him?) to do it, and wouldn't have given an obvious sign of consent - so that is one law he/she broke. If he/she was a relative then that is another law broken. And you were underaged - another law broken. He/she knew that what they were doing was wrong.

That thing about the abuse coming into your head during sex - I used to have this a lot and felt utterly disgusted with myself that my mind would want to relive it and get some kind of thrill out of it. Both my gf and brother used to come into my head. It isn't as bad as it used to be but I still have dreams in my sleep about doing sexual things with them. In the dreams I am into it and then wake up feeling disgusted and sick. It makes me angry that my mind would do this to me. I think you are really brave to type it because this is something I find really shameful and embarrassing. I feel more able to type it because you have! And really relieved I am not the only one.

Therapist said this is also not my fault. He said if you had really good sex and at the same time you could hear churchbells ringing, it is likely that in the future if you heard churchbells ringing your body would have a sexual response. In the same sort of way, if your earliest sexual experiences were abusive, your mind links sex with abuse and that is why abuse comes into your head during sex as an adult. He hasn't told me what to do about it yet as I haven't felt like talking about it any more than that.

I don't think you are being selfish for what you have written because you are sharing your experiences, feelings and thoughts and it helps other people to make sense of their own when they see other people putting it in different words. It also helps to know you aren't the only one to go through similar things like I said earlier. I find it helpful when sometimes I give 'advice' and then look at it and think "I should be taking that advice myself!".

Smithfield, the confusion you are feeling sounds scary. The way you feel your MIL interferes and tries to take over and treat you like a child and you resist letting her help you - that is so similar to how I've been with my MIL! DH says she is only trying to be helpful and she needs to feel needed. All he can see is that she is being 'nice'. I feel she is trying to control and be the one in charge - the No 1 Mummy, and it got much worse when us daughter in laws became mothers. She doesn't feel so important any more. I don't want her competing with me though. Since I've had children is the first time I have felt important and I'm scared of her taking that away from me.

Re FIL - I talked to DH about it last night and not sure what I think yet. DH said that this is normal behaviour for his dad and he knows a man at his work who is also very affectionate but doesn't mean anything sexual. He said his dad is just treating me like his own daughter. I feel a bit strange about this.

DH said it should be me who says something and when FIL does something I don't like I should say "Please don't do that, it makes me feel uncomfortable". Part of me thinks DH is being weak and too scared to say something to his dad for me and this makes me angry (and he admits he would find it very hard). I also feel angry that DH thinks his dad has done nothing wrong.

But, DH also said he thinks that if I say it, it will make me feel a lot better about myself and help me to deal with my past. I can prove that I am strong enough to stand up to people and stop them, I am not the person I was then, and it won't keep happening. He says I let people walk all over me. I hate him inferring I am a drip but I can't deny that if I did find the courage to do it I would feel a lot better about myself and feel I had the power to not let it all happen again (I have this irrational fear that the whole lot of what happened during childhood will somehow come back and happen again). I feel powerless at the moment. All the old feelings come back to me and I get scared and I don't say and do what I need to do.

I hate admitting that I am weak and scared, but I find this so so hard! Why is it so hard? A normal person would say "get your hands off me" and then forget it.

I am so pissed off that my family have made me believe I am powerless. I know I should use the anger to change myself but I feel like I need my brain rewired or something. The fear, although it is irrational and no longer relevant to my life, is still there. I still haven't had that EMDR Therapist was going on about because some new 'drama' seems to happen each time that I want to talk to him about.

Thank you so much AN.

I am so grateful to realise I am not the only one.

The abuser was a man and was my foster father. I remember lying there thinking how can I get out of this house without him catching me but there was no way I could have done it and nowhere to go if I had have managed to escape.

Thank God it only happened on a few occasions and I was removed. I do want to say more but am worried it could identify me.

Once it is all over I will want to talk it through if that is okay.

I was told that if you are abused you become an abuser so decided I would never have children. Thank goodness I met and married my lovely husband and we have had a family together.

Are you still in touch with any of your family?

My social worker said what happened to me was the same as when a 17 year old lad she was dancing with touched her in a way she didn't want.

'I feel she is trying to control and be the one in charge - the No 1 Mummy, and it got much worse when us daughter in laws became mothers. She doesn't feel so important any more. I don't want her competing with me though. Since I've had children is the first time I have felt important and I'm scared of her taking that away from me.'

This is it in a nutshell for me too. Unfortunately MIL lives 10 mins away and I was daft enough to fall for her crafty ways when we first moved here.
This meant she had ds 4 days a week while I worked and WAY too much control. I could see she was trying to compete with me. I had to reduce her days to two when I was able as it began to dawn on me what was happening. I turned up once to take ds swimming (told MIL I would be there early to do so) and she had instead put ds down for a 'late' sleep She had asked earlier that day if she could come too, and I said no. She is very sneaky and manipulative but it is all dressed up as 'helpfulness'.
She also went through a phase of banging on about sending ds to the school behind her house, because if ds went to school where we were she 'wouldnt' be able to pick him up.
When I made it clear (eventually) that would not be happening, her and FIL suddenly started looking at bungalows near the school I said I wanted It goes on...but you get the picture.

Ive just re read a bit of toxic parents and basically this is manipulative control.
My mother uses direct control.

Had another conversation with DH but he says he cant say because he hasnt 'seen' his mum being controlling

Anyway I will not be having the conversation and thats that....I know what she is even if he doesnt.

He says how is this ever going to get resolved and I said by getting on a bloody plane and putting 12000 miles back between me and these nutjobs

Lesniuts- You are like a breath of fresh air.
I laughed so hard when I read your post. I think I could learn a lot from you my dear. Can you teach me to be assertive pleeeese!

Seriously though, you have been through so much and you sound so very strong (or is that bravado?)and have so much insight.

How old is your Lo BTW? Ds is 3.5.

Attila- DH admits he wants a quiet life and for everyone to get along.
I wonder if he thinks I enjoy being so alone and unsupported with two little ones?
If she was safe and not bonkers of course Id be happy to have a relationship. I do have one but she wants more more more.
She like a blinkin vampire.

Anyway, doubt DH will ever see it.
How long has your hubby taken to come around?

Thankyou for validating my feelings. It really helps just have to check in now and again to know Im not losing my couple of marbles.

AN and Itati
Have to sort dinner but will be back as I want to post to you both too.

Smithfield,

In answer to your question, about 9 years! .

My MIL also likes to be very much in charge, she certainly wears the trousers in their house. Well she sure ain't taking charge in this family unit. Her taking charge has caused no end of dysfunction in her own family unit. She, FIL and BIL are all as mad and bad as one another. I often feel they'd make a good case study for Raj Persaud.

Attila x

Sorry I feel like I am being very crap with support at the moment. For that I apologise.

AN - 'hate admitting that I am weak and scared, but I find this so so hard! Why is it so hard? A normal person would say "get your hands off me" and then forget it.'

You are 'normal' you are a 'normal' person that has had an experience which was truly traumatising. It was that 'experience' that wasnt 'normal' not you. Please remember that.

There is a part in Toxic Parents which says that with sexual abuse it is the victim who is the 'healthiest member' of the family unit. This is because it is the victim '....who has the clearest vision of the truth'. They are normally first to seek help whilst the parents '....refuse to deal with reality'

You are not the weak one...you are the strong one...the brave one...because you are facing up to all of this. Your parents do not have the strength of character to do so.

You will find the strength to speak to your FIL, baby steps, but you will get there. When you are good and reay and I have a feeling you may well be using lesnuits suggestion whne you do, or close to it

Itati- As AN said, this is about sharing your thoughts and feelings. I feel honoured that you put enough trust in this thread to write what you did, knowing how difficult it was for you.
How you could think you would be reproached for something so terrible happening to you I dont know. Well, actually I do know. I know that on here all the suffering is caused by victims swallowing the guilt, blame, anger and any other bad feeling caused by the perpetrator/abuser.
You have our support to get through this court case 100%. You 'are' doing the best thing because you are sending a message to youreslf and to this man that what 'he' did was wrong and you were not responsible for his actions in any way shape or form.
What happened 'to you' wasnt normal...thats what causes the thoughts. Dont internalise it any more. It was way beyond your control and the thoughts are part of a horrific trauma that happened to you.

Lesniuts-
I think our upbringing bares a lot of similarites. I know my dad never touched me sexually but emotionally I believe it got incestuous if you know what I mean.

I too remember the shocking arguments, which would turn violent and even if they didnt my mum would scream blood curdling screams, because she 'wanted us' to think dad was beating the crap out of her even if he wasnt.

I started about 3 years ago (as the divorce finally kicked off) refferring to mum and dad as..... 'smithfields mum and smithfields dad show.'
Dont know if this makes sense to you but this was what it always was growing up. It was so much less about us (the kids) and all about them and their on again off again on again off again,traumas and beatings and screamings. The manipulations then existed within that of who takes whose side.

This is a very 'using' environment to grow up in and it deals us a huge plate of insecurity and lack of trust. In the end if you can not trust the relationship of those who should have loved you unconditionally...who the hell can you trust?

With regard to your brother. I believe he was probably 'the scapegoat'. That was me. Then I left and my middle DB got scapegoated and then he left and my sister got it.
So that is probably how it worked for you too.
Hope Im not still trying to get over this in my fifties