"But we took you to stately homes" part 3

[oneplusone]

Sorry for starting part 3 if it has already been started but i logged on just now and found the previous thread has reached 1000 posts. And my title is not very inspiring, Ally90, please help!

Actingnormal - thank you so much for your very compassionate post. Much of what you say is so spot on, I could cry.
Smithfield - I am very moved by your post. You should not beat yourself up about losing your temper with your son - part of that is just normal, we all lose our tempers with our kids sometimes.
I'm so sorry that your mother is so cold - at least mine does love my children - it's the one piece of power I have over her.
It is good to feel angry. You need to feel this anger before you can get over your pain about the way your mother behaved towards you. Of course, you need to direct it at her but because she makes you feel powerless, you find that so hard.
This is the same reason my mother directed her pain at me rather than her own mother.
I felt utter rage towards both my parents (my father is a classic bystander) for a time and then we repaired our relationship and for about a year and a half until last month we got on very well with them. Then my sister got married, and my mother found the stress of the wedding so much that she ended up lashing out at me again. She was desperately jealous of the attention I got at the wedding (I was maid of honour) and walked out during my speech! I was very hurt. My husband is very shocked by her behaviour. So at the moment we are not speaking because I dared to tell her how hurt I was (how unreasonable of me).
I then received an utterly poisonous letter (the latest in a series)in which she admitted that she didn't love me and, like your mother, ranted about my behaviour as a teenager. She claims I competed with her for my father's love, which is actually preposterous. Although she says that happened when I was a teenager, I remember her ranting at me about that when I was about eight years old, so it's a problem in her head and nothing to do with me at all.
Part of the problem is that my mother is an alcoholic as well.
I do remember being held by my mother as a very small child - maybe aged three. But later, from seven or so, she never showed affection and behaved as if she disliked me - would often say I was not a nice person etc.
Part of me really craves that affection I had from her as a very small child.
But the rest of me is accepting that it is gone. I am lucky to have a really wonderful husband who is very strong and very supportive. He takes all this very seriously, although he feels I should stop craving my parents' love. And that is what I am trying to do now. I know that is what will free me from this once and for all.
It is my mother who is inadequate, not me. And the same goes for you Smithfield - your mother let you down, not the other way around.

AN- Im sorry if my post made you uncomfortable, that wasnt my intention .

What I want to say to you is this.

Firstly, all of us on here have something very special that our mothers did not have 'insight'. It has been mentioned many times on here, and it is what sets us apart from our mothers.

Secondly, I think there is always going to be an element of micromanaging with young children,I think. To a large extent what you are describing is normal.

I too get very anxious over ds being out of control, but I think part of this is again normal and part is probably because my childhood was chaotic, as was yours. So things being 'out of control' make us anxious. But at least I can be aware of this and then keep myself in check, and so can you.

I think as long as we are aware 'why' we are doing certain things and for what reason we are doing them we will be doing a 'whole' lot more for our children than was done for us.

Finally I wanted to say that by addressing how 'you' were treated first and foremost you are doing the very best for your children. There are certain things that will remain buried in your psyche and can only be dug out by going through this process.

The things that are buried are normally our raw emotions.

The abuse you describe from your brother must have made you very angry but at the time you were just trying to survive. You were looking for cues from your abuser as to what he wanted you to do. Toughen up was the message and you followed suit.

That anger will out itself somehow and be projected onto the wrong person if we dont dig it out ourselves.

That is what you are trying to do and it is the best thing you can do for your family.

In terms of how people treat you....children model behaviour and what they need to see is a 'mummy' who is self assured and self confident.

This will come from claiming back your self esteem from the people that stole it from you. It is rightfully yours!

I also wanted to say with regard to the solpadeine and red bull, you are probably trying to get your endorphine fix from this (codeine is an opiate agonist).
It could be depression that you are battling with at some level on top of the emotional stuff you are trying to deal with. Have you talked to anyone about depression? The reason I ask is because I was convinced that the depression was part of me 'just my personality' until I went on Ads fro the first time. I was amazed how differently I felt. I am now convinced I suffer from constant low level depression and I am thinking of going back to the GP.

I also believe it is this which has held me back in so many areas of my life.

AN- I think you need to give yourself permission to be 'you' as you are now.

I think you may be wanting to re-invent yourself for the same reason as me. That people in your life who were meant to shape (in a nurturing way) your very being, made you feel like shit.

So I think you may feel that if you were a different person, somebody else entirely... these things wouldnt have happened to you and people would have given you the respect and love you deserve.

Not true- those that let you down should have loved you for who you are, and as you are. That 'is' unconditional love and it was your mother(s) jobe to love you that way. AND if she couldnt,because of her own deficiencies and failings she should have made that clear to you that, that was the reason.

Who are these people to make you feel so ashamed of the person you are now and not good enough

I read your posts and just wish from the bottom of my heart you could truly let go of the idea 'you' did something bad or wrong.

You did not!

Ok Rant alert......

I have had contact.

The phone rang today and I have kind of gotten complacent. It was number witheld and I just picked it up without a second thought.

When I heard 'her' voice (wish I could do damn italics) my blood ran cold.

her:'Smithfield?'

me:'yes'....

her:'well I thought I should ring if I want to meet my grandaughter before she is 21'

me:'silence'

her:'Are you there?'

me:'yes'

her:'well then its your turn to speak'

me:'well you have caught me by surprise

her:'Why?, you must think about this every day because 'I' certainly do'

me: 'yes, but I dont wish to have this conversation now. I am here with two young children and one is a very aware 3 year old.'

BTW at this point I was 'almost' willing to arrange a time to have this 'coversation'!

her: (pushing on regardless) ''I' want to see my grandchildren, 'I' have a right to see them, even if you do not want a relationship with me I should have one with them'

me: 'So this conversation is going to be about you then'

her:'I had a relationship with (smithfields son) before I should still have one now'

YOU HAVE THE ONLY GRANDAUGHTER IN THIS FAMILY AND I HAVE A RIGHT TO SEE HER!!!

AND...What you are doing is wicked. WICKED!

me:'Right well, like I said I wont have this conversation in front of my children'

her: 'Why does it have to be an argument?'

Me: 'Who said the word argument? What I said was I dont want to have this 'conversation' with you right now'

Her: 'Why are you trying to argue with me'

Me: Im not. You are using the word 'argument' not me. I dont want to have this C-O-N-V-E-R-S-A-T-I-O-N with you right now.

She hung up.

Now reading back I look very much in control, and (thanks to toxic parent grounding) I was remarkably

Normally I would have given in and given her argument. I would then becaome the villain of the piece of course.

but I was shaking afterwards. And trying so hard not to cry in front of the kids.

I just thought afterwards 'my god' the woman is totally deranged. She actually believes she can pick up the phone having not spoken to me for 8months and 'demand' I give her access to my children.

Let me clear something up here.

She did not give a flying wotsit about ds when I asked...sorry 'begged' her to take us in when we came back from overseas. Broke and without jobs.

She sat in her 6 bedroomed house (erm by herself) and said we were making a mistake to come back.

She actually admitted that the reason for this was that we would probably end up living near Dh's mum, and that she would rather I had 'no' support overseas than have that [hmmm]

She would not help out with an hour of babysitting so I could clean houses to bring in some money when we had nothing. Unless she had no prior arrangements and her diary was clear.

She was supposed to be here for christmas but pissed of on holiday with her mates instead and didnt even bother telling me.

When she does visit she hardly interacts with ds at all. She would much rather she went out with me for a drink whilst dh baby sat.

She has no evidence in her home of ds' existence

And above all she clearly has no regard for my feelings about 'anything'.

More to the point I guess. But I clearly still need to justify myself with the above!

Sadder still the reason I stayed on the phone after realising it was her was because I actually felt a rush of love and that I wished we could talk things through, because at the point she said my name I just wanted my mum.

Smithfield

((((((((((((((((((smithfield)))))))))))))))))
You don't have to clear up anything in my eyes; it was only too apparant from reading your writings ages ago what she (not just to say your Dad) is like.

Bloody hell Smithfield, your Mother, and I use that term advisedly as she is not worthy of such a title, is a toxically charged manipulative emotionally abusive witch. She's a master in manipulation; I thought her piece about the word "argument" was extremely manipulative of her.

This is, as always, all about power and control. She lost her temper with you today because you remained firm and strong. You will need to stand firm.

Re the number withheld, she likely dialled 1571 or somesuch to withhold her number before dialling your home. If you had known it was her you would not have answered. My counsel in that regard is to screen all calls by installing an answering machine, this will switch on automatically when someone calls your home.

Of course she has no visiting rights re her grandchildren.

She may well be your Mother because she gave birth to you but her parental responsibility for you stopped then and there. She has failed you miserably and utterly. She will never unfortunately be what you want her to be because she thinks she has done nothing wrong and thinks also you're just being "difficult" again. Toxic people never take responsibility for their actions, they always find someone to blame for their own shortcomings and personal failings. They cannot or will not empathise with the other person. You are not responsible for them and you did not make them act like they do. You are not to blame for their failings.

Now have a cup of tea and enjoy your own children's company!.

Your friend with the stripey socks and hot towels

Attila x

Smithfield - your mother has no rights whatsoever to see your children.
You are certainly not "wicked" do decide that your children do not need to witness the sort of behaviour she displays towards you. It is not healthy for them and until she can show respect, it is better for them not to see her.
Unfortunately, I know with bitter experience that she will not change her attitude towards you.
I suspect that deep down she is full of self loathing and is merely projecting this loathing on to you. Unfortunately, she's been at it for so long now, hell will freeze over before she unlearns this pattern.
It is terribly upsetting and of course you crave the affection and love from her that you never got. But you have to accept that it will never be forthcoming. Either she learns to be civil and reasonable towards you when you see each other on infrequent occasions, or else she can't be part of your life.
I too have tried and tried to have a closer relationship with my mother. But what's the point when they dislike you so much? You wouldn't flog this dead horse with a friend, would you?
Just remember, you have done nothing to deserve her dislike. She really dislikes herself but as long as she convinces herself that it is you she hates, she doesn't have to do anything about herself. She can continue in the pretence that she is actually perfect and the victim in all this.
She sounds particularly controlling, your mother, I must say. My mother would also use the "you're arguing with me" line - it is very manipulative.

Actingnormal, I want to say that my heart goes out to you. I know how it is to feel so much self hatred, I really do.
I don't know how long you have been seeing your therapist, but I can tell you that when I was seeing one, I found I had to hit rock bottom with her before I started to really get better. I spent 18 months with her, and should have gone for longer but we moved a long way away. Going to her was unbelievably helpful. She really helped me.
I was also terribly depressed and it was brought on by a very controlling relationship I had been in with an older man - which brought back all the panic etc about my relationship with my mother. I think that when you feel you have lost control - like your brother made you feel - it makes you feel utterly helpless, as if you are drowning.
Do you think that one of the reasons you failed to react/cry when he hurt you - even though you knew he would stop if you cried - is that by emotionally disengaging from what was happening you found a way to protect yourself from emotional pain? Even if it meant more physical pain?
You should rant away - it is the best way to exorcise yourself of all this. And I truly hope you find a way back to yourself one day - where you can finally accept that you are a good and decent person and none of this was your fault.

Smithfield I am so impressed by the way you spoke to your mother! If I imagine myself talking like that to my parents I just feel fear! (I don't know what of, they aren't dangerous people). You were so assertive! I think it is really good. I'm having a glass of wine to celebrate your 'victory'.

I really agree with DollBird. Your mother lost any 'right' to contact with you and YOUR children when she failed you as a parent and continues to disrespect you. It is perfectly reasonable that you don't want your children to have role models of a person who can't treat people with respect (her) and a person who will tolerate being treated with disrespect because they don't have enough self respect (you if you allowed her in your house when she continues to treat you badly).

Thank you Smithfield and DollBird for your kind words to me. Maybe I will get out the pictures of myself when I was a teenager again, look at them and try to talk myself into finding that girl acceptable, courageous even, because I did survive it didn't I, and I kept believing that things would get better one day. I did what I could, with the knowledge and strengths I had available at the time, to get through it, on my OWN, with no help from any of those pointless people!

SMITHFIELD, I am so proud of you. Well done. You stayed in control the whole way.

Thankyou- All of you- for your support.

I feel so blessed and lucky to have found this thread.

Uhm correction...that Atilla 'found me' and brought me to this thread (hello atilla )

I really am coming to trust that I will get the support I need here. It has mad me so much stronger.

It was a good thing that yesterday happened in a way because, having not spoken to her for so long, I was actually 'startled' by her rudeness and sense of entitlement to ride rough shod over my needs to get hers met.

Think I have been immune to it in a way having grown up with it, so her rudeness and disregard had become normalised.
I definately also felt that it was 'me' that did something to make her behave toward me in a certain way.
I no longer believe that, but I do believe my reactions to her (the only thing I can control) have always supplied her with what she needs in some way, and always at my expense.

Breaking from her has allowed me enough space to become emotionally detached 'enough' from her to stand my ground.
I dont think it is any different than leaving an abusive relationship in many ways. As long as you remain in it the abuse remains normalised and you cannot see the wood for the trees.

Even DH is 'amazed' by my reaction...too many times has he seen this type of attack from 'her' draw 'me' in.

And afterwards I would normally end up under the duvet.

Yesterday I felt upset yes, but I also felt for the first time 'righteous anger'. Such a small step, but a leap for me.
I refused for once in my life to swallow 'her' bad feelings.

I took ds to tumble tots instead

I am also writing this for all of the lurkers who may toy with the idea of breaking contact. I hope this helps you with your decision.
It sounds crazy but I spend a lot of my time arguing with myself over wether what I am doing 'is' justified.
I often read others stories and am convinced 'mine' is not bad enough to warrant breaking contact with my parents.

I can now say 'it most definately is'...but I needed to believe that myself.

finally I do.

'And' Atilla......if you are ever thinking of adopting

I sometimes "argue with myself" too as to whether I have made the right decision or not. All I have to do is just look at the last correspondence exchanged between us (keep it "safe" in an envelope), and it just reminds me that nope it aint me with the problem here.

Hello Smithfield

Will certainly add you to the list of adoptees .

I may well have brought you to this thread but that's all I did really. I felt quite humbled reading that . The emotional hard work to date has been all done by you. And gold stars once again for standing firm to your Mother's hectoring.

Have a nice weekend

Attila with her stripey socks and Missoni towel (also stripey) .

This just popped in in active convos and made me realise you guys could maybe help me as you are all so fab.

I have posted a bit in mental health about what I am going through now. I have to reread old diaries and letters to get info on how I was feeling at a certain point in my life and the thought of it really is worse than the reality but I still put it off. I need a day to sit and do it all in one go but thati isn't going to happen anytime soon with 3 kids to look after.

My nose is running, I have a sore throat and I am shattered.

Off to get the kids from school shortly.

Smithfield, that thing about how being in constant contact with someone abusive can 'normalise' the abuse in your mind really struck me. I can see that having time away allowed you to see that it wasn't normal when your mother re-contacted you.

Smithfield/More, Arguing with yourselves about breaking contact - I'm still not clear about this as my parents don't actively do anything to hurt me. There is nothing I can say "they do this so I must avoid them". Yet I feel hurt by what they don't do. They continue to "act normal" even after I've spelt it out what happened to me, which they should have 'noticed' anyway, during childhood. As they continue to act normal I continue to feel hurt that they don't feel enough about what happened to their daughter to have any reaction to it. They seem indifferent and like they don't care.

Deep down I think they do care and they aren't terrible people, but they have such problems themselves that they can't show it. So they aren't terrible people but I still feel angry after contact with them. Even if they offered to change (which just wouldn't happen), It's too late, I just don't want them anymore. I feel the relationship is too broken to fix. Yet I'm staying in minimal contact because DH thinks I should. I don't know if he is right or if I am betraying myself.

((((((((((((((((((smithfield)))))))))))))))))

Well done you! Oh what a horrible shock to hear her voice on the phone, I know the shakiness and frozen moment in time feeling when that voice is on the phone. I felt shaky reading it. The way you replied to her tho to all the victim/persecutor stuff...you must be all grown up now well, still wanting your mum, but still standing strong with your own needs and that of your children. You should feel so proud of yourself...(have another hug!). Know what you mean about do I have a right to cut parents out...I struggle with that daily myself...if my mother had said all that on the phone I think I would have been unable to speak...you've done so well! And to say what you were doing was wicked...what about arguing with a lady in labour

Allyxxx

Itati, please can you do us some links to the threads you want us to read. (Sorry I'm probably being dim)

Hello AN,

I haven't written directly to you before but I read practically all that is posted on this thread. Your comments certainly struck a chord with me because I feel EXACTLY the same towards mis parentes (you've expressed it far more eloquently).

The following in particular hit home:-
"I'm still not clear about this as my parents don't actively do anything to hurt me. There is nothing I can say "they do this so I must avoid them". Yet I feel hurt by what they don't do.

I have felt that my parents have always favoured my brother and they continue to run round after him. I remain both amused and bemused by the actions of mis parentes who continue to be unsupportive. Distance from them for me has been a key factor in my ongoing happiness.

Some of their actions towards me (particularly prior to my wedding) I do find hard to forgive let alone their indifference towards me when my DS was a lot younger (and in their eyes at least less interesting).

With best wishes

Attila

Btw...I'm pregnant

That's the problem on this thread...often the advice offered when others are in need is so good you feel you can't add to it...

Tis good to see so many posters who weren't sure about coming forward now posting so much... and there is no hidden meaning there! Its just like a dam being burst open...having bottled my feeling up for so long it always makes me happy to see others talk it all out too.

Itati...going to look for thread

Hi one plus one,
I am happy for you that things are working out with your sister, with hope for the other one, too. I have always believed that people without children do not understand what it means to have children...something I am sure my lovely Middle Sister would debate until the cows come home (She fancies herself as one of the tv nannies-even dressed up as Mary Poppins one year for Halloween ). Middle Sister will never have children, so I've no hope for that true transformation that your sister experienced.

Sakura, I completely understand the strategy of taking a break. When we've reached that level of recovery, it gives a better chance for positives to replace the negatives we're trying to recover from.

Smithfield, way to go!!! You refused to be your Mom's victim again . She'll have to get her 'la-las' (suck blood ) from someone else. It will probably take a long long time, but one day [emoticon looking into crystal ball] she might realize that you are no longer ever going to put on the coat of your childhood role again. On subconscious needs resurfacing-for that I think the answer is to live in the present. I know that sounds simplistic, but I think it is the core to not repeating the (bad) family patterns. That was then, this is now. That was them, this is you.

Acting Normal and DolliusBirdius1, on reinventing yourself...
I understand the self hatred-the constant self criticizing - self judgement. There came a point when I forgave myself for being me. That lifted a weight off my shoulders. I thought: "well, I am all I have to work with, so I'll deal with it. Everything is not going to be perfect-I am not going to stress over it any more." So I guess I lowered my expectations for myself and it really made a big big difference in my life-I could relax and be content.

Hi Attila, polka dot socks today.

Ally!!!! congratulations!!!

here is the current one causing me trouble.

Congratulations on your fantastic news Ally

Itati, Does your arm and leg hurt because somebody hurt them?

Are not being fed enough as a child and the info you are having to look up related?

Sorry if you don't want to/aren't allowed to answer these questions at the moment, it just might make it easier for us to undertstand everything.

Have you always had the eating problems? Were there any times you didn't have them? Is looking up the info making the eating problems worse?

Sorry about all the questions.

If you got your head straight and felt better about 'the info' and your childhood that might help your eating problems more than deciding what to eat at what times (although that is important too). So although it sounds really hard what you are having to do, it will probably be really worth it. It won't be this hard forever.

If there are things you want to post about but are afraid of saying too much for legal reasons you can use nicknames for people instead of their real names or instead of abbreviations which show how they are related to you, and you are under your nickname anyway. When I was worried about writing to my brother in prison about the things he did to me, because all letters get read and I didn't want to incriminate anyone, I used alternative names for everyone so the letter can't be used as evidence.