"But we took you to stately homes" part 3

[oneplusone]

Sorry for starting part 3 if it has already been started but i logged on just now and found the previous thread has reached 1000 posts. And my title is not very inspiring, Ally90, please help!

AN- Your post was only confusing to me because I have just re-joined the thread and haven't read it all. It seems perfectly clear that you were treated very badly, and those who should have protected you and stopped the abuse did not. It is therefore understandable why you dismissed each horrible thing that happened as not being important.
Things were very, very bad for you as a child, and you are most certainly not whinging.
All of us on here have experienced some kind of abuse or neglect whether it be physical, emotional or sexual. We can't rate who has suffered the most, it just wouldn't be helpful.

What is helpful for me is to be able to share bits with others and finding my feelings are not unique, I'm not going crazy, and I wasn't responsible for the crap that happened.

AN- Your post was only confusing to me because I have just re-joined the thread and haven't read it all. It seems perfectly clear that you were treated very badly, and those who should have protected you and stopped the abuse did not. It is therefore understandable why you dismissed each horrible thing that happened as not being important.
Things were very, very bad for you as a child, and you are most certainly not whinging.
All of us on here have experienced some kind of abuse or neglect whether it be physical, emotional or sexual. We can't rate who has suffered the most, it just wouldn't be helpful.

What is helpful for me is to be able to share bits with others and finding my feelings are not unique, I'm not going crazy, and I wasn't responsible for the crap that happened.

Itati- I know what you mean about not having contact with your Mum, and feeling uneasy because you don't know what she's getting up to. I have now restricted contact with my Mum, having very brief irregular telephone conversations with her. Although it is a relief not to have to speak to her, I wonder what poisonous things she is saying to my brother and sister about me. Sometimes I wonder if wondering that, is me just being paranoid and she's probably not mentioned me at all. It's the not knowing that is so disconcerting.

Whoops, thought I'd not sent the first bit already.

Thank you. Mimizan, you really summed up the reasons for being on here well - for reassurance that we aren't going mad, things that happened were wrong even if the perpetrators won't admit it and other people would feel bad if it happened to them as well - and they know because it did! It's like getting people on your side to give you the courage to stand up to them.

Smithfield, my therapist has a way of wording things which really makes things clearer to me and so do you! I have a kind of list of useful sentences that make me feel better. From thinking about what you wrote I'm going to add to it: By acting like everything was normal when I was being abused, key people in my life as an impressionable child tried to teach me that it was ok to be treated that way. I need to unlearn this and not accept this sort of treatment from anyone. It was not normal or ok and lots of people have reassured me of this. With the help of people on our side we can stand up to the people who want us to go on accepting bad treatment.

That is also a fantastic idea about looking at a photo of oneself at that age, although I will have to work on the remnants of self loathing of that person who I was. Self loathing for looking like a victim and attracting abusers, for not doing more to stop them, for accepting that I was unimportant enough to have those things done to me. If your parents make you feel unimportant it's hard not to believe it. You believe these bigger, cleverer, more knowledgeable people at that age when you are dependent on them. We all have so much to unlearn and to learn from each other.

Received an email from my Father last Friday, and I honestly don't know what if I am going to write back. I have only just dug it out again for some unknown reason. Suppose I will write a quick straight to the point offering "condolences" email to them, because I don't wish them any physical (or mental) harm (because I refuse to be like them). I just don't want any contact with them, yes even now, when they are on their self proclaimed death beds.

"For your information, went to an examination at the hospital yesterday, and has been signed up for a bypass operation. At the same time I can tell you that Mother has been diagnosed with heart trouble in March. Father".

I have actually had to force myself to think about it. It is more of a nuisance than anything else. God I sound like a hard woman. I am really not (a hard woman) I am actually a very loyal and giving person.

I do feel sorry that they are sick, however..............argh I don't know what whatever I mean. I don't want to have to think about it. I want to think about my beautiful, happy children, about how much fun we have when we go camping at the weekends, and all the other good stuff.
I work really hard during the week, and I want to be able to come home and enjoy it and not have to think about them and their negative way of life.

Itati, would you reveal who you are (before I go crazy ) I think I know who you are...there's a 3 in your other name?

Flight - are you still around? How are you doing?

Dollius Birdus - your welcome! Oneplusone also reads Alice Miller books.

Your dh's reaction is the same as my dh's...who has finally admitted that I obviously can't move on... Its good to talk about what happened in a supportive environment...it validates our experiences and helps us know what is right and wrong and how to get over the hurdles we face. It must bloody hurt to go through the routine of patching up your relationship, then be the scapegoat over again. And must really hurt to have your family turn a blind eye to it all (bystanders). I know when I confronted my mum by letter my dad and sister immediately sided with her...I was just being mean and nasty and exaggerating...and being ungrateful and rude...etc etc etc! Personally I think they were massively pissed off because the family scapegoat had found a field with soundproofed 20 ft high fence with a padlock on the gate so someone else had to take my mad mothers flack!

Anyway now your on the thread and introduced yourself you may as well stay and share memories? Or present day problems...whatever you want entirely up to you

Mimizan - "What is helpful for me is to be able to share bits with others and finding my feelings are not unique, I'm not going crazy, and I wasn't responsible for the crap that happened." Hear hear!! Well said!

Scarily I actually wanted to know my mother was okay after I confronted her...she acts like such a child and I've been looking out for her feelings for so long...and I suppose I must still care about her...but I just can't let her back into my life again...give an inch take a mile mentality...

AN - you were never unimportant! You were a child! How about I offer a hug to 10 year old you? A nurturing (nice) motherly hug? You never deserved to be treated that way by others, never. It was not your fault they abused you. No child...anywhere in the world ever born deserves what happened to you. You were unfortunate to be born into your family tho, because they are the ones who brought you up from babyhood to accept such things as being 'okay' when they clearly were not. Notice how you attract friends who are like family members? We go for relationships that we had with our family. If we had a good relationship with our family we find people who treat us well...we attract them...and vice versa. Please try to start getting angry about this...your mother was not right not to listen to you about your gf. She should feel deep guilt about it. (((hugs))))

Better sign off now...been on toooooo long again still angry with sister...how DARE she comment on my clothing...how DAMN RUDE. (going to get angry going to get angry). What right has she to do that? So she's my sister, it does not excuse such an abusive card from someone who is trying to make amends. Two fingers to therapist who tried to tell me there was good in the letter she sent me earlier this year! Yup because she 'loves' me as a sister, but actually often 'dislikes' me I should go be buddy buddy with her...bah to that. Should she show me she has changed then will be the time to talk again.

Rant over again...bedtime!

allyxxx

More - I was so long typing you posted before me . Your father sounds like mine when he writes...wonder if they get lessons on how to communicate? What do you want to do with the letter? Afterall unless they have moved their stance towards you then its not going to be good for you to be around them...especially if they can pull your strings because their ill...

Don't blame you wanting to think about nice things talk it out on here a bit more...no need to hurry a reply, do it in your own time...if you do at all.

Hi Ally

You missed out two other words I would have added to the a.b and c in your earlier post of today. I would also have added d) Toxic and e) Narcissitic (not that you are not aware that they are both these already).

Your sister would lead a horse to water and watch it drown. She will never change in my view (has been subsumed by your Mother) and she doesn't want to make amends. These people will never take responsibility.
Hard as it is to do don't let these people have the control and power. This is what its all about ultimately - their warped desire to have power and control over someone else.

BTW did you recognise the writing on the envelope as being your sister's?. Would suggest that if you get any more correspondence from either of them you immediately shred the contents wihtout opening.

Wear your stripey socks with pride my friend!!. I shall wear some stripey socks tomorrow!!.

Attila power!!!. Power to the Ally!!!

More- Enjoy and cherish your beautiful children, and don't feel bad about keeping the negativity at arms length. Try and think of this as a positive strategy of looking after the beautiful child you were, and re-dressing the balance and crap of the past. Your parents were unhappy and perhaps selfish people. In all likelihood they are still the same people and unlikely to change now. Without a doubt you have no control over changing them to make them into happy, positive people. However you have the ability to change how you feel and view the world, and have created a happy, loving family despite the odds being stacked up against you. Don't feel bad about keeping them from tarnishing what you have.

I am keeping my parents away from my loving family, but still worry about depriving the DC of their grandparents. Do others share this worry?

Thanks Attila I have my spotty pink socks on as we speak! Bright pink!

Mimizan...your not the only one to worry about the gc being deprived of gp...all I can say is the mother of the children and her mental health is v important so she can be a good mum...if being round your parents in any way makes you ill it is better for your children that they have no contact...iyswim

Here if anyone has a mo www.mumsnet.com/Talk/7/559118

Ally - I hope I haven't really made you angry. I used to be NAB3.

Hello everyone! I'm new to this thread. Ally90 pointed me in the direction of it. Apologise if you've already read my story but I thought I'd post it on here too.

I was mentally and physically abused by stepfather for most of my childhood, most of the abuse came from stepfather (who was also physically and mentally abusing my mother). Stepfather was a druken alcoholic and also for some of my childhood a drug abuser. Not sure what age I was when the hitting started.

My Stepfather would come home in a alcoholic fuelled rage and lash out first at my mother and then at me. I used to fear him coming home from the pub because I knew that I was in for a beating. He tried to strangle me countless times, I now can't bear anyone touching my head or neck, and don't wear anything tight around it. He tried to drown me twice in the bath whilst my mother was out, so now I'm terrified of water. He used to make me stand in a corner for hours on end for doing the most tiny thing wrong. I was made to repeat how stupid and ugly I was, and how I'd never anount to anything in life. One christmas day he made me pack my bags, told me I couldn't live there anymore (think I was about 10-11 yrs old)and took me to the middle of nowhere and left me in a field. I remember being absolutely terrified and scared. Hours later he came back for me. As a result I now hate christmas as this was the time of year that the abuse was at it worst. I've been dangled over the top of the stairs with him saying he was going to drop me.

I had countless periods of time off school with black eyes and a bruised face. After one beating I mananged to get out of the house and I cowered behind a neighbours house for what seemed like hours in my nightie in the middle of winter. I knocked on their door and they let me in. Eeventually someone must have gone to get my mother and I was taken home. Not one to the neighbours reported it it! To this day I still bear the mental and physical scars of his abuse. Just a smell or a certain song (he usedto play his music really loud when he came home from the pub, probably so the neighbours couldn't hear anything) can set off horrible memories.

I've seen a pyschologist about it all but found him useless, he even made excuses for my stepfather! I'm scared to death to have kids of my own because I don't want to be like him.

Hobnob

I have read what happened to you in your childhood.

Words are inadequate but I sincerely hope you can one day find peace within your own self. You likely realise this already but none of what happened was your fault at all. The people who were supposed to protect you let you down badly and that's an understatement.

Did your Mum go on to leave this abuser or is she still (heaven forbid) with him?

You may want to contact the National Association for People Abused in Childhood if you have not already done so. You may find them helpful. I've done a link:-

www.napac.org.uk

BACP are good if you were to consider seeing a counsellor.

Attila

mimizan this might help with your question

Welcome Hobnob . As Attila says words are inadequate. I just want to acknowledge what you have written. It must have taken a lot of strength to do that. There are some very wise and insightful people on this thread, and I hope you keep posting.

Thanks More. I do feel my DC have little to gain from the relationship with my Dad. He is a very selfish man, and is rarely positive towards my DC. He has been critical of them and they are now quite indifferent to him. My siblings' DC really like him which perplexes me, but maybe he makes more effort with them. I get very upset by his dismissive behaviour towards my DC, as it must be a repeat of how he treated me. I could quite easily sever contact with him as we only see twice a year at most.
My Mum would be more difficult as I believe she genuinely loves the DC, and me in a strange, ambivalent way. Her love for them is less complicated than for me.
My only happy family memories of childhood are those spent with maternal GPs. I know they were emotionally abusive to my Mum, but they were lovely to me. I can't quite bring myself to stop the DC having contact with my Mum for this reason. I want them to have the positive GP relationship I had.
I was thinking of letting the older 2 just stay with her on their own without me. That way they will not be exposed to the tension and stress of a meeting between me and my Mum. I assume it would be positive but know she once smacked my DS1 when he was 3 and stayed overnight with her.(She told me). I am hoping that after a period of therapy, I'll be able to forgive Mum for her neglect and abandonment of me. She left us when I was 6 in the 'care' of my Dad who just let us do our own thing more or less, while he got on with his life as a bachelor man.
I'm rambling now but it's helped just to post.

Yeah!!!! Hobnob you got here your part of a very special group now (as are the lurkers on this thread )

Itati - Not angry, sorry! Meant in a 'your driving me mad with curiousity' way when you don't have a name to link to a background history its hard to remember the name...

off again, got to go out soon

And I've added a HUGE selection to my wardrobe last night...£70 worth of supermarket clothes, NONE are black or brown...all bright colours!

I have woken up today in a complete rage.. It is not good feeling like this. I am sick, sick, sick of having to think about all this stuff. It's filling my head and stopping me from enjoying my DC.
I can not believe I have spent the last 40 years making excuses and forgiving my parents for their dreadful parenting.
Basically my Mum left her 3 DC with a man she couldn't stand when I was 6.(my Dad) She came to see us most days(I don't think we always knew when she'd be coming), and we were fed(most of the time), but we did all the housework and got no emotional support or encouragement. There was an unspoken rule that we did not tell anyone what was going on. We therefore had to lie to teachers and friends that our life at home was 'normal'. My Dad just carried on doing his own thing, bringing back girlfriends, going out all night, pursuing his passion for politics. We were unimportant in this, but had our uses. We kept the home fires burning, stroked his ego when he was down. What a tosser!!!
When I look at my beautiful DC who are the same ages I was during that period I feel enraged. The thought of loading that kind of responsibility on to them seems incomprehensible. I just don't think they would cope at all. I suppose we didn't. We had no major accidents in this period of neglect, but must have spent a lot of time feeling terrified and abandoned, and just unwanted.
I am trying to feel positive for my DC and trying to be the parent to them that I never had. It's hard when there are no positive role models. I think we're doing ok. Could be better, but I'm trying my very hardest. I just feel like ringing my Dad and screaming at him, but I won't because it will just confirm what he already thinks, that I am too much trouble.
Hope it's ok for me to keep rambling.

Mimizan, I really know where you are coming from with the anger about thoughts of your parents taking up lots of your time and leaving not enough time for your DCs. I used to feel angry with the DCs for 'intruding' into my head when I was trying to get my thoughts straight about parents and brother, but lately the anger has been turning round so that I'm angry with parents and brother, who don't deserve my time and attention, taking up my energies and making me neglect my DCs and DH. I think it is really healthy to have this anger and is a step forward in your 'recovery'.

AN- I could have written some parts of your post. It must be an indication of how much our self-esteem has been damaged and how we feel unworthy of attention or care. What you are saying is not insignificant at all. Your feelings are valid. It must have been unbearable going on those family visits to your brother. I would have felt suffocated, and I really admire you for surviving the experience.

I will no longer do overnight gp stays. They are far too stressful, and leave me feeling imprisoned and insane. An afternoon visit to GP s sounds sensible. It allows the DC to know who their GPs are without experiencing too much tension.

My DH dislikes my Dad and his wife so is relieved not to have to visit them. I think he is slightly worried that I don't want to see them at all now, and he wants me to carry on seeing my mum. He doesn't much like talking about my family problems and gets impatient and I feel dismissed. Because of my parents lack of interest in me as a child, I am hypersensitve to feelings of being dismissed, by anyone. Now I have started therapy DH is quite supportive, but not as interested as I'd like him to be about how it all feels for me. This is why I am posting so much on here. I also have 2 friends who I can talk to about it all, one of whom knows my family. That helps.

I have had the same thoughts about my therapist being bored, but then I am paying her so should really not even worry about that.

Mimizan - Its good to be angry, and yes I got to at stage when my parents and sister were taking up 'head space'!! So frustrating when I could not shut it out...so angry that they had affected my entire life and even without them in my life they STILL had residence in my head! Angry because I wanted to be happy with dd and be a good mum...and my mother was ruining that too. But it passed. It will pass. I think I allowed myself to get drawn back into their little games again and felt powerless again in some way. I think I was feeling guilty too...I'd have to go back and look in the other threads. But your not alone in feeling this anger. Just keep typing out your anger here...we will validate your feelings and experiences even if your family could not. And that in itself is healing to know at least SOMEONE understands and is listening.

Acting Normal - Your not rambling, you are helping the rest of us and supporting us even when you are typing out your feelings...we can all probably see some or all of what we feel in what you are posting...no need to apologise...you have an equal right as all of us have on this thread to ramble (though I'm not sure if its me or TMSB who has the 'longest post every' award at the moment ).

My dh is unempathetic to my feelings. He is very logical minded...emotions don't come into it. He realised at an early age that his parents and sister were barking so he emotionally cut them off and has not looked back since . So he cannot understand why I cannot do the same [frustrated emotion!!]. He thought after my letter there was no need to do anymore...just 'forget about it'. Bloody Mr Spock men eh?! Yes its that easy...heck what are we all doing on here anyway? Just so glad my dh is not a samaritan . Your dh has it wrong thinking that your not to upset your parents...YOU are more important and how YOU feel that your parents! Afterall you are a parent yourself now and your well being is vital to their wellbeing...your mum and dads wellbeing is not! (He must get his priorities right!!). I'm at you not being good at driving after seeing your brother...why is that? How do you feel after? Just brainstorm here or on paper all the thoughts that pop into your head. Back to dh anyway...I think you were very courageous to go back to him about this issue, its so hard...well done you! Well done for staying calm and staying connected with him when he could have gone off...that is impressive

Ally- Thanks for the reassurance that this anger will pass. My head is so full, and memories keep entering my head, that I an compelled to analyse. I am finding having to deal with the DC intrusive to this process. All they want is my attention, to have their physical needs met, or some cuddles. I feel totally wrapped up in the past. I feel like I am being dismissive of them , and therefore as bad as my parents. I hope I am not repeating the cycle. DH is working away for a few days so I'm going to have to try really hard to be attentive to them, as this 'stuff' sloshes around in my head. I can't wait for my session this week to get rid of some of it.

AN-Your post did not make me feel cross with you. It made me feel sad that things are still so bad for you. I think you are still being abused, as you are being given huge, huge feelings of responsibility for stuff that isn't yours to deal with. I can see where you are coming from in wanting to 'help' your brother. You are in an impossible role as the rescuer of your abuser. . While you are in the role you will continue to feel hurt.
Yes he has some use for your healing in that he can validate your feelings about the past and your parents behaviour. However it is clear now that they failed to protect you, let things continue, and continue to make you feel unworthy, unloved and dismissed.
Your brother's situation is a living nightmare, and objectively it's hard to see any light in it. He is a victim, but he is also an abuser and has responsibility for that. His behaviour has not changed and he is toxic still to you. AN-I s he getting therapy in prison? Perhaps that's something you could get sorted for him. Then I think you really need to focus on your healing. You owe it to you, your DH and your beautiful DC.YOUR FUTURE.
My Mum was nowhere near as abusive as your brother, she was neglectful, but I feel I have the need to 'rescue' her, understand she had a crap childhood, and make her feel better and forgive her. From reading your post it has made me realise, I've been doing that forever and yet she's still just as f up, and in the process of 'helping' her I'm *** me up, and even worse could do that to my gorgeous children. My relationship with her as it is, is toxic and destructive, as is yours with your brother.
It's so hard to break the cycle because it isn't simple, and there's going to be pain whatever course we decide to take. However the control is in our hands.
Hope that ramble makes some sense.

Yes, I do go on, don't I . Sorry about that.

Counselor recomended book: 'Parenting from the Inside Out' by Daniel Siegel and Mary Hartzell.

I am working on remembering how my Mom was to me as a parent through the years (my continuous narative); it turns out she was bi-polar (the term used back then was manic depressive).

On the endless tape playbacks in my head about my lovely Middle Sister, counselor said I can train my mind to think about something else "now" and look at the 'junk' later - if at all. "It just doesn't have to be that way"...on having the tape play over and over, or feeling like I have to think about it. Sounds simplistic, but I think it is right. Who, after all, is making me think about it? Is it the childhood training-my coat of invisibility- making me think about it? Well, I am done with that.

Hope this can help you some. The playbacks are really annoying to me, too.
I am going to think about silly socks , new quilt designs, and Christmas Gingerbread houses.