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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But we took you to stately homes" part 3

1000 replies

oneplusone · 01/03/2008 14:10

Sorry for starting part 3 if it has already been started but i logged on just now and found the previous thread has reached 1000 posts. And my title is not very inspiring, Ally90, please help!

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/05/2008 08:08

Would you be kind enough to look at the thread entitled "How do I tell my Mother (nicely) to back off?" on this relationships page.

more · 16/05/2008 10:45

Don't know how to help you ActingNormal, I do have a feeling that your therapist might be right, that your brother could turn out to be dangerous to have around your small children.
I am at work, so have just quickly skimmed through.

kaz33 · 16/05/2008 12:52

Actingnormal - I question what you will gain from confronting your brother and your parents about what happended to you.

You are the one who needs to confront it within your self, to own your own pain. That you can be in control of - when you are strong then you will be decide what relationship you want to have with your parents and your brother.

Even if they said (which is extremely unlikely) - you are right we are terrible people and we treated you so badly it won't take the pain away.

toomanystuffedbears · 16/05/2008 16:21

Hello ActingNormal-

I agree with what Smithfield said Wed 14-May.

From your post:
"I feel like nobody has ever been so kind to me as my therapist and so 'on my side'. I don't want to give up my weekly dose of that. I wish I had someone in my RL like him but feel I will never have this."
I don't have a regular therapist, but I know exactly how you feel. It is a void of fellowship. Even though I am reconciled to copious amounts of solitude, every once in a while I mourn not having a group (or even just one best friend) of friends. But at the same time I remind myself to be careful what you wish for...because "friends" can be toxic, too. Now I don't wish to avoid xyz because someone might xyz...for me the thought soothes solitude rather than actively prejudges others.

ActingNormal- about your brother in prison. Tread cautiously because you don't know what influences he is absorbing while inside. He may be learning 'make happy face' now while cooking hidden agendas for later. If he hurt you in the past, - well, I hate to say this- but how can you really fully trust him again?

And your children: my ds is 16 months older that dd1 and I was vigilant to keep him in check when he used her for his gain-emotional or physical. One time during potty training- he physically pushed her off the toilet because he had to go. Nip these things in the bud now. At the very least get the point across that siblings are not fair game, every family member is important. This may take constant coaching for a while. Coach with examples and "what if someone was treating you that way?" kinds of strategies. My dc are 13 & 15 now and they are still friends (keeping fingers crossed).

Hi Ally- how are things going?

ally90 · 17/05/2008 14:33

Hi all!

Welcome 2beautifulgirls...was replying to you on wed then electric man came and replaced meter as I was about to post screen went blank...I swore

Anyway...ever heard of the Drama Triangle? There are 3 places on it...victim persecutor and rescuer...but there is a 4th outside the triangle...the bystander. My dad was one...sounds like your dad can be one...doing nothing to change the situation...and doing what he can to stay out of trouble ie telling your mum. As hard as it is to consider...your mother will have learnt behaviour from her mother and father...and abused people attract abused and abusive people ie your father? You may find all your family are invested in 'playing the game'of the drama triangle including yourself. I know its a bit psychobabbily...but sometimes when you live in emotional chaos it helps to put it in some sort of logical order.

Have you gone down the self help book route as yet? Therapy? Its best you get as much support as you can, and withdraw from family members who make you feel unhappy/sad/angry after you have been in contact with them. You will know when you feel strong enough to be around them without being drawn into any gameplaying.

Hope some of that made sense! And I hope your grandad is feeling better/getting better. And sorry if I'm repeating myself...feels like weeks since I've been posting!

Hi TMSB!

Thanks for asking I'm doing okay now. Going into town I'm like a hawk watching for my mother. But I have got some support from two of my positive friends...people I have sought out and actively got to know them...because I feel emotionally healthy after being round them! I do like being solitary tho...my natural inclination...but dd needs to be socialised at the moment and db/ds when they come along so I need to find appropriate playmates, parents with similar ideas to myself and dh so dd gets a consistant message of how she should be treated well that's the plan. Have withdrawn from those friends who pushed my boundries..still see them and I am friendly but don't do invites etc (not that I do that much anyway!). Finish councelling in another 4/5 sessions scraping the barrell for emotions when he asks how I feel about leaving therapy and not seeing him again...!! (Actingnormal...my therapist tries to keep me in contact, so not the best of therapists...can understand you being unhappy at therapist insisting your db is not good for you and family...he should be inviting you to think about how you can keep yourself safe in db company before trusting him again...? But I'm not a therapist...so take that with a pinch of salt!)

Wow...that was a long 'how are you'...must be bottling things up but given how talkative I was at friends in the last 2 days...and therapists...still not talked out! Hope you are doing okay with your lo and no contact with ms. Oh and I meant to mention...re hormones...to smithfield too...I think I may have had pnd after dd...and I'm putting it down to hormones...for over a year after she was born ...I blamed the breastfeeding too........

Anyway...best do something else now...got party to go to tomorrow so perhaps get spruced up for that...I may be some time

allyxx

Podmog · 19/05/2008 08:21

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more · 19/05/2008 08:47

Podmog, I know a few of the others on this thread have found it really helpful to write how they feel down.
Myself I have taking up nightly walks. Once the children are sleeping I then go for a long walk. That way I have time to think the whole day through (and hopefully also loose some weight, however I think that might be wishful thinking).

Podmog · 19/05/2008 11:44

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ActingNormal · 19/05/2008 12:22

Podmog, I know what you mean about wanting to talk and talk. I worry that I do it too much though to too many people, some of who I probably shouldn't be disclosing so much of myself to (I know its all about boundaries). You're right though, it does make you feel accepted and it is important to feel you have people on your side, especially if you are about to 'confront' people who have hurt you.
Can you talk to your DH about it? I would so love to have married a man who can talk/listen the way my therapist can but my DH can't really handle it. We get along well when I am happy but when I am not I feel like he sees me as a sad failure (although it may be paranoia). I definitely think women are generally better for talking to about this stuff.
Can you trust any of your friends enough to talk to them? Can you just type it all on MN or does it have to be verbal? MN is more like talking than just writing on your own. I never know how much/in what detail, to type on here and if people really want to read about all my stuff or will just think I'm being attention seeking or something. I definitely don't think that about other people though so probably they don't.

smithfield · 19/05/2008 12:56

Podmog- MN could be a bit of a halfway house for you. Yes its still writing but at least you will be getting feedback/responses to what you write.

What do you think?

ActingNormal · 19/05/2008 14:23

TMSB, I found what you said useful. If I really work at teaching the children to treat each other with respect and never as "fair game" I will feel better because I will be doing something positive to stop the same sort of unhealthy relationship developing between her and DS as between me and bro.

I feel sad that you isolate yourself from people but agree it is important to make sure you trust them before opening yourself up. If people have broken your trust in the past then it is not your fault that you are like this. If you open up to people really gradually and monitor their responses would it be less scary? You seem like the sort of person I would like to be friends with.

To MNers who have said be cautious about my bro - I can see from things he has told me, that people in there do try to say the right things and look good for the parole board and I know I can be too trusting. But I have an instinctival feeling that cutting off would be a bad idea. Because I know him well and from things he has said, I think that we would be in more danger if I made him feel rejected and judged - these are the things which have caused his rage throughout his life. If only I hadn't reunited with him and got close - now I'm not sure I could escape if I wanted to but confused about whether I want our close relationship anymore. I really don't think he would hurt me again (he hasn't for 18 years) or hurt DH or DCs but people have put doubts in my mind and I feel I would be stupid not to think about it.

I am cutting off from all of them in my head though as I really have accepted that my parents aren't going to change so I've given up on trying to have the relationship I wanted with them and I don't care what they think of me anymore. They can't hurt me anymore. This is a relief! I am learning to not care what my bro thinks of me though this is harder for some reason, but this will also be a huge relief.

I really don't want it on my conscience if I hurt them by rejecting them. I think it is perfectly understandable for those of you who are still being hurt by what your relatives do NOW for you to reject them to protect yourself, your DHs and DCs, but in my case I don't feel they are still actively hurting me. If I felt that any of them were TRYING to hurt me now then I would cut off because I won't tolerate it anymore.

I'm thinking I could let them have contact with me very occassionally so I haven't rejected them and just see them as f*cked up people who I am helping, not my mother, father and brother. The purpose of the contact would be so I would have the opportunity to find out more about why they are like they are and help them understand themselves as well because the more I understand people the more I forgive them. I know lots of you (and my therapist) don't seem to think forgiving is the thing to do but I definitely feel better when I am feeling forgiving. I feel less angry and more sorry for them and superior to them and feel the power in the relationship has shifted more to my side.

Also don't we as a society need to understand more what makes people hurt each other and try to prevent it by bringing up our children differently and breaking the chain of victims becoming abusers.

When bro gets out I can take precautions like meeting him in public places without the children (DH doesn't want him round them and I respect his decision as their parent).

I still plan to write letters to them about what they did and how it has made me feel. This is what I want to achieve from it - I want them to know that I think they f*cked up due to THEIR problems and weaknesses and that I think less of them for it but am open to understanding it and forgiving it to some extent the more I find out about what makes them tick. I want them to know that although I will still see them/talk to them occassionally their relationship with me is damaged because of what happened and that is their loss because I now have what I need from DH, DCs and friends. I want them to know that I don't need them. This is quite vengeful and will hurt them but feels more acceptable to me than rejecting them totally.

I think telling them how I feel will really lessen the feeling of suppressed anger - suppressed because of them not wanting me to cause a scene/confrontation. I will feel more important to myself because I think I am important enough to have my feelings heard by them rather than just accepting that they hurt me without saying anything because that would upset them (which is saying their feelings are more important than mine). So you see Kaz33 it is not about me wanting any particular response from them, it is all about how I feel just by the act of telling them. It is extremely unlikely, knowing my family, that they would just say sorry!

Sorry this is so long but it has helped me to write it even if nobody reads it. Please tell me if you think I am being stupid and why though as I find it hard to trust my judgement at the moment.

more · 19/05/2008 18:52

I don't think you are being stupid wanting to do this ActingNormal. I think you are very brave and you sound very clever, no thanks to your family.

Podmog · 19/05/2008 20:32

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ActingNormal · 19/05/2008 22:08

Podmog. It is exhausting keeping up a facade and I'm not surprised if it is failing when you are under stress from being a mother of 4. I think this is a good thing though if it is finally making you get the help you deserve.

Whatever your mother says, bad things that happened to you were NOT your fault. If the same things happened to your children would you think it was their fault?

SHE has failed, NOT you. Parents are supposed to love, support, encourage, protect and teach their children how to cope as functional adults. It sounds like she has failed to do this. You have managed to have a relationship and create your own family despite the damage she has done (and it sounds like is still doing). That is a big achievement. Do you care what she thinks? Do you have other people in your life who make you feel better about yourself? If so do you still need her? Will she ever change? If not, do you see any point in hurting yourself by trying to get her to change?

It makes me angry that you have had to suppress everything to protect her (similar to my situation). YOUR feelings are important too and you deserve to be listened to.

I understand the vulnerability you feel when you start talking about the things you have kept secret for so long. I've found it really frightening. I think the more you say it the easier it gets to say though. And it feels like a relief when your therapist gives you 'permission' to feel vulnerable and not to have to act tough and cope with it on your own any more. You should never have had to cope with it in the first place.

I hope you get all the support you need and reassurance from people who can see your good qualities. These are the people to pay attention to, not her.

Podmog · 19/05/2008 22:14

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Podmog · 19/05/2008 22:15

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ActingNormal · 20/05/2008 09:37

More - thank you for your little messages of support to my recent posts, it really does make a difference when someone says something nice. I was just wondering how YOU are though as you seem to try to help other people but don't say much about yourself.

BlaDeBla · 20/05/2008 09:51

It is awful having to live through abusive parenting. My mum is just learning now what a dreadful man my father is. He is violent, threatening, controlling and generally terrifying. Like other psychopaths, he thrives on delusion and thinks of himself as a pillar of the community, kind and benificent, whereas behind closed doors...

I found this graphic of cycle of violence quite helpful, and this one, the non violent image.

My father nearly hit me and my mother and my husband a couple of weeks ago in a rage. He has always been like this and we all lived in terror.

smithfield · 20/05/2008 09:52

Podmog- My heart goes out to you, and I second everything acting normal has said.
I am struggling with '2' children. You have double that number! Women who do not have our shoddy backgrounds struggle being mums. It IS THE toughest job. So dont be so hard on yourself over that.

As for the rest of your post

I'm a thinker and have suppressed all the emotional stuff from childhood. I know I will have to let it out- but I cannot bear that level of vulnerability, after managing everything to hide what she did.

Thankyou for clarifying how 'I' deal with these emotions too. They are well and truly buried and I act like the tough nut, the coper who doesnt need 'anyone'. Even my dh gets pushed away. I cant bare to be vulnerable to ANYONE.

So dont feel alone with these emotions. They are perfectly acceptable coping mechanisms, installed to enable us to survive.

But these devices also makes us 'strong' and made us ' survivors'. So these aren't necessarily bad traits after all.

If you rationalise your mothers behaviour you will know that it is 'She' who feels like like a blot on the landscape, but instead of facing those feelings and dealing with them she projects them on to you. You're anger is justified, but you are an adult now and you dont have to accept this behaviour from her. You are allowed to install any boundaries you like to protect you from her toxicity.

Hope my ramblings help. Keep writing. We are all learning from each other here.

Podmog · 20/05/2008 10:40

Message withdrawn

smithfield · 20/05/2008 12:24

Podmog- You are trying to come to terms with stuff which is very difficult to face. You need time to process and it is fine to feel what you are feeling right now.

Everything is a phase. Hang in there, '..this too shall pass'

Podmog · 20/05/2008 12:57

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oneplusone · 20/05/2008 13:39

Hi podmog, i have just logged on again after a while away from this thread. What you are describing is exactly how i felt a few months ago. I couldn't switch off from all this 'stuff', it consumed me and I'm sure there was steam coming out from my ears from all the processing my brain was doing.

I totally understand how you feel about just wanting to talk, keeping it inside until you see your therapist is so very hard. There is one option you could try which is go onto the NAPAC website (The National Associaion for People Abused as Children) and call their free helpline. It is manned by trained counsellors who have been through what we're all going through. I have called them a few times and they have helped me through some very difficult times.

My best wishes to everyone on this thread, I am going to try to catch up on posts but it will be a mammoth task!

OP posts:
kaz33 · 20/05/2008 15:38

I'll post again:

www.hoffmaninstitute.co.uk/

Expensive but it works, it is now nearly three months since I returned.

smithfield · 20/05/2008 18:26

oneplusone- good to hear from you! Would love to know how you have been doing?

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