"But we took you to stately homes" part 3

[oneplusone]

Sorry for starting part 3 if it has already been started but i logged on just now and found the previous thread has reached 1000 posts. And my title is not very inspiring, Ally90, please help!

Sorry Manny

Have reprinted my post as I gave the wrong website. BACP's website is www.bacp.co.uk (and not the other one).

Sorry to butt in again....I will have to extend restraining order. Just seen my sister in town. I'm shaking again.

So anyone any bright ideas on how to get your family to let you go?

'Normal' people would say 'but they love you'...doesn't feel like love from where I am...

hi jammyk!!

Wow you were fast to come across! Well done you for posting...got to go make lunch...back later...you do need this thread and you should be here!!

ally- (((hugs))) Would your DH step in??

I just feel they need to be told to back off, but perhaps not by you. I guess Im saying this because this is exactly how I felt when my mum was continually calling me. texting me...harrassing me...

I felt at the time that ANY communication between me and her would just be an invitation to continue that communication between us. A starting point for her rather than an endpoint for me.

It may not work but for your husband to stand in between them and you and say 'NO MORE, we do not want any contact, correspondence from you...in so many words??'

Do you think that could work?

I really dont think any response from you in person would be helpful?? But you do need them to stop.

I will be back as I really want to respond to other posts too.

Ally

I don't think your mad as cut snakes family is going to listen to your husband any more than they are going to listen to you. It is all too clear from your Mother's recent missive in perspex that they are not listening or do not want to hear the message. Both are equally possible.

Know you do not want to go down the legal route but I'm beginning to think that will be the only way to stop any further correspondence. At the very least this is harrassment.

Thanks Smithfield...we have discussed dh stepping in, but more as a concept...may have to come in reality...he has offered more than once. My therapists view is that I should respond to correspondence/visits etc with a repeated 'i understand you feel x y z but I have nothing more to say.' But in saying that...you are saying something to them! They would see that as a positive step. Therapist thinks by dh stepping in that would leave me looking like a child still to my parents and would resolve nothing in the long term. But where can this go? I cannot be trapped in my house with my 2 yr old by them...but when I see them in town I have a choice to carry on by them and end up engaged in some sort of contact...and risk bumping into them again...or turn back from where I was going and go home. My mother is very good at looking pitiful, woeful and childlike. Good for an audience...I read a quote somewhere about persecuters often look pathetic and fragile...looks impossible for them to cause harm basically...and leaves us victims looking like we are the baddies I suppose!!

I also realise this has put me in a childlike state. My sister being in town today makes me feel the dreadful duo are back again...mother and sister both stood above me as a small child when I refused to do something I did not want to do...and they really wanted me to do ...

"oh isn't she mean and nasty, your so stubborn!"

All these words are coming out in their letters to me...but some worse now...'cruel and callous' 'stubborn' 'proud'. All those things because I'm standing up for myself...as I did as a child. Thinking what my therapist would say now...'and what would you do back then?'...okay...I would be on the verge of tears...either agree and feel awful because its somethign I really did not want to do...or disagree and feel bad...I would go to my room and cry...and feel a bad bad person. As I grew older I would feel suicidal or want to just run away from them both. So am I repeating that same behaviour then with what I am doing now? Well I'm still saying "no" and this time I'm meaning it...and I'm still saying 'no' two years down the line. I'm not suicidal but I do want to run away...but I do have other choices that I did not have as a child. I can say no and keep them at a safe distance. I need to stop reading their toxic mail so they cannot bully me anymore. I need them to stop coming to my town/village to stop physically harrassing me AND my dd. Until their messages change to 'we are willing to listen' (aint going to happen...) then I cannot be around people who deny they ever did anything wrong around me...so wrong I wanted to kill myself at a very young age. They have to answer to their abuse of me. Otherwise being in contact will be a form of abuse.

My mothers pleading from the state of her mental health is the same old same old...'need to see you both for my sanity'. Well what about my sanity...does that not matter? 'not meant to be menacing or malicous'...strange she should say that...she must be thinking that could be how it comes across...so why come out and say it when she in her heart of hearts probably does think of it as menacing and malicious...or am I reading too much into it?

What do they hope to achieve by coming to my town and village? Mother says its for her sanity (but tbh her sanity was always questionable...) but another motive as could be my sisters is just pressure. But why do they both want to see me/dd so much? They never cared that much for me...always teasing and bullying me...I was never good enough for them...which is a form of 'we don't like you, we don't want to be around you'. I can see how they don't like me (but they do love me because of our common genetic heritage...bizarre) and I suppose their drama triangle is now incomplete...they have nothing and no one to unload onto...so they seek to get me back so they can carry on offloading...they must be getting to bursting point now wanting a good slagging off/bullying match with me...all their bad feelings abotu themselves all pent up...my refusal to be around them basically agrees with all the bad things they feel...and nowhere to go...

Wow I'm making sense today looks like I'm offloading too...but in a supportive environment!!! Which is where feelings should be vented! Not on the designated scapegoat. Going to crack open a bottle of something now...maybe a light bucks fizz minimum alchol...and do some gardening (fearing my sister looking over my back wall at any moment...joy!)

Attila x

Hmm...still don't want to...I'm thinking 'i can cope i can cope i can cope, i'm an adult i'm an adult i'm an adult'.

bloody long post i just did ... stream of conciousness again! One day I'll look back.........................

Ally-...' But in saying that...you are saying something to them'

exactly...and we have discussed your therapists shortcomings in this area I think.

You are not ready to 'open' communication with them, maybe you never will be and that is fair enough. Your therapists should not be enforcing his own feelings on the matter on to you. That is what your family do.

Your family (namely your mother and sister) are bullies...they are bullying (or trying to) bully you now.

As TMSB said 'You are her (Their) narcissistic supply and she can't or won't see you in any other way.

Its so sad because beneath your words I see a deep deep hurt, that may never be healed.

Stay strong Ally- you are right to protect yourself from them. They are disrespecting you AGAIN. and you should feel able to protect yourself by ANY means available to you. After all what alternative do you have?

Well you could ignore them, but we both know this method will mean months/perhaps years of this kind of stress continuing.

(Oh there could be one other solution, you could move to OZ?? with the smithfields )

But seriously- send DH into the fray, he could 'mention/threaten' restraining order as your next step and that may suffice??

If it doesn't then you 'may' well have to go the whole hog. You 'are an adult' regardless of the options you take. One who needs to protect themselves and their family from these bullies.

'They' can not (do not have the capacity to)SEE YOU Ally..(as in pschologically)...they 'only see themselves' You are but a 2D image to them remember that.

Eh.(sigh) Flippin toxic barnacles .

Hi Ally,

I would agree entirely with Smithfield's response. Does your husband feel it would be worth talking with them directly?.

I keep thinking of Spongebob when I read the word "barnacles"!!.

Danae - I wanted to post and respond to you as so much (as always) of what you say resonates with me. I too have had a bad time of it recently and find myself being vicious to my DSs. I can't work out where all this anger comes from - I am very confused as to whether my anger comes from anger from my childhood or whether it is something to do with my situation now. I am so glad to hear that you are going back into therapy - are you happy with your therapist or is this a new one?

I find that clinging on to 'baby steps' is the best help but then what happens when you slide backwards like you're on a greasy slope? I am trying to come off my ADs at the moment and I gave up my PT job in Jan so am now a SAHM.

I know I'm not making much sense which is why I usually lurk rather than post but Danae, am sending you big big hugs and hope your therapy helps.

Gx

I so don't like the idea...but I looked up restraining orders anyway...this is one element of it...kind of sums it up...its all so policified and I have fear of being judged by policeman plod for cutting my family out...they may think my mothers behaviour reasonable...and what about if it failed? If we could not get one...my mother would be triumphant...but I'm left with choices...

a) speak to them and let them tell me what a bad girl I've been and sweep my abuse under the nearest piece of axeminster

b) move to Oz with the Smithfield clan ;)

c) restraining order

d) ignoreignoreignore

e) never leave house again

Offence of Harassment - Section 2

The elements of the section 2 offences are:

• a course of conduct;
• which amounts to harassment of another;
• which the defendant knows, or ought to know amounts to harassment of another.

The defendant ought to know if his course of conduct amounts to harassment if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other.

Ally-
The bad ones (see? I try to be nice!) Those toxic rabid s-o-bs bemoan the loss of their emotional loo. It is hard to find someone else to take on the role-especially for long term. (People outside the family would NEVER tolerate it)-(except in abusive romantic circumstances). I think that is why they won't give up, cease and desist, or simply leave you to yourself...let alone acknowledge your truth and own the responsibility for it.

I think that is why divorcing is the correct and justifiable path. Pages-yes?

I hope that you will be able to get to a place (emotionally)where their existence can be dealt with as taking out the trash every evening-just a ho-hum mindless chore. "Oh, good grief, it's the family again...now what's for dinner?" I know it can't be as simplistic as "shoo fly" when you need the chemical warfare bug spray with 20 inches of warnings on the label.

Smithfield-
About being narcissistic supply-and the toxic one can't see the person any other way...
Even though I said that to Ally--your reinforcement of it showed me more meaningfully that it is the way my Middle Sister sees me. If I could listen to my own words...

The depth of the hurt caused by her is coming into more clear view. I really think this is the MAJOR break through for me. Thinking her diminishment of me as superficial-compared to the harsh physical and sexual abuse that I never endured -I felt that way. But the message about emotional abuse taking as great or greater toll is really an important point!

God! How she has used me! I am having an episode of emotional flooding at the moment.

This leads me to
Danae-
On self sabotage and vacillation of resolve in respect to the management of our proximity (physical and emotional) to the toxic ones...

Presently I feel very strong that I will not seek contact with MS (card at birthday and Christmas is all) because I can see the cancer she has put in my mental health. I suddenly-over the past couple of days-don't have the doubt anymore. You are right-it is NOT NORMAL to allow her to influence me to such a degree that I play child for her. That was my playing the charade-the two-faced game to 'get along'--except it was toxic for me since I'd been playing it sincerely for a decade now (since Dad passed on in '98).

What? Middle Sister irritate me?
Well, it is just because I'm not at the right perspective-if my understanding wasn't so lacking then I wouldn't be irritated. Thus -drone emoticon- "Yes, MS; Thank you, MS"...I won't even bother to have an opinion, shut me up, shut me down.

There! It is clear. And I have a true feeling of completion. And the motive is justified--how can I be an effective parent (or wife-although dh probably appreciates that I don't complain much) especially with 2 teens and now an infant?

Danae-I don't know how to comfort you-
With the children-I lost myself, everyone always came before me. Don't make the same mistake as I and surrender yourself totally. We know children will command more of ourselves-we have to give up some of our identity activities-perhaps all with very young babies- but make it temporary. It may be management of sequence -child then you-but try not to be resentful. The children will be old enough soon enough to be able to deal with "Mom needs a few minutes right now.

Electric storm- got to dash!
"

Hi Ally

Why don't you talk with a Solicitor and make general enquiries about obtaining such an order and how this actually happens. That way you won't be committed to anything. Find out what the process exactly entails and how long it takes. If a "friend" was treating you in such a manner you would not be expected to put up with it so why is your mad as cut snakes Mother any different?.

As for your choices:-

a) is a complete No-no. You may as well stamp "Victim here!!" on your forehead. Not healthy!!!.
b) Am certain Smithfield would love to have you in Oz with her (can I come along too?!) but again that's not realistically feasible.
c) Worth investigating further
d) again a no-no. Again this is just asking to be shat on from a great height.
e) One Word. NO!!!

Don't just react - act!!!.

With best wishes

Attila with her Missoni (well okay yah!) towels xxx.

You two are making me laugh...I never say 'good grief' but I want to now! lol And I had to look up 'Missoni' thought you meant a masseur...one of those that does karate chops on the back! lol

Dh and I have discussed again (and what everyone on here has put ) and dh is for the 'good grief' option. He thinks that mother getting a restraining order will give her the response she's been looking for. I so wish we could move away...but dh tied to job so its a no go. Besides which...what if they found us and moved into the same town? that one could be the most expensive option...

Like the 'emotional loo'...explains it very well!

And last night when I was awake (in the dark...watching it become light) I was thinking 'toxic barnacles toxic barnacles toxic barnacles...' lol made me smile anyway...and I did eventually get to sleep we could market it as an insomnia breaker...

Yours Ally (laying on heap of Missoni towels with slaves waving fronds of palm trees over me...and handing me bowls of peeled grapes...) xxxx

Can I join this thread? I really feel for you and somehow feel my problems aren't as bad. I have posted on other threads so a quick recap : I am adopted by my maternal grandmother and her second husband (hence not my biological grandfather). I lost my birth mother 10 years ago, she suffered severe mental health problems. I do speak to my birth mother's sister (my aunt) but we aren't that close. I have never had contact with my birth mother's father (my grandfather and my grandmother's/adoptive mothers first husband!) but he wants to meet me. Very toxic relationship with my parents esp my Dad due to controlling and emotional abuse. Made to feel like villian and that I should be grateful they adopted me. I have had counselling and things are a bit better. I have put some emotional distance between us and manage with a weekly phone call and visits a few times a year. I think I will be meeting my grandfather at some point, I have only heard bad things about him from my parents and suspect they have denied him contact. I need to make my own judgement. I have a DS aged 2 and I sometimes feel guilty that he dosen't have much of a relationship with them. I have a very supportive husband who can't stand them and ILs who are like a surrogate family to me. BUT it obviously still hurts or i wouldn't be posting.

I haven't had a row with my Mum for over a year (partly because of counselling/ADs and my ability to distance myself a bit). I did try to talk to her about things last month. A very long phone call! She still defends my Dad. I have finally managed to talk to my Aunt about this and she agrees that my Dad is a bully (he bullies my Mum as well). It hurts that I lost my real Mum and I want to call her Mum now, not my grandmother. I am okay but it would just be nice to be part of this thread and get some support on the bad days.

Danae and Roseability - I too, feel like I "take it out on" the children, especially DD (5). Something Danae said really struck a chord - about the rage coming out on the wrong people because it was never expressed towards the people who really caused it during childhood. This is what made me realise I had to go to a therapist and get it sorted and couldn't just ignore everything any longer.

It is irrational but I sometimes think of DD as being my brother and never leaving me alone with all her demands, and feel scared of her treating her younger brother the way my bro treated me so I am jumping on every little thing she does if it seems like she is bullying him or controlling him even though she hasn't done anything really bad.

Danae, I don't think our 'parents' realise the true effects of how being adopted makes you feel, maybe because people didn't know so much about the psychological effects back then. Do you feel a desperation to feel you belong and that something is missing? And when the people who you wanted to make you feel you belong make you feel bad and disappoint you, you feel alone. I try to accept that my adoptive parents and birth parents will not change and our relationship will not suddenly get close and be what I wanted. I try to get what I need from DH, DCs, ILs, and friends but often still feel a big gap in me which can't be filled.

Danae- Is it possible to just break from your mother for a period of time?

When I first came accross this site I felt exactly as you do. I just ceased contact, but believed (part of me still does believe) it is only for a 'period' of time.

I honestly do believe breaking contact will help you. It will be you facing your greatest fear and surviving....more than surviving....excelling.

Question- did your parents ignore you/cut you off emotionally whe you were a child? This could be where the fear stems from.

As for your sisters, that is their choice...you are a different person. There is something stronger in you than them.

AS for your issues with dd, I relate to this myself. I dont have an answer, but I think the therapy will help. You need to tap into the part of you that becomes a child again in response to your dd at these times

For myself I think it is simply that I led a VERY solitary existence as a child. Little interaction between my parents and me 'except' to berate, control, physically or emotionally punish me in some way, of course.

This has meant I am a solitary person, perhaps not by nature but being alone with myself, my thoughts for such an amount of time as a child it has become ingrained in me. It feels more normal, more comfortable somehow. As a result, sometimes I think I see my dc's or even dh as an intrusion. Dont know if this makes sense to you, but I thought it just might.

Anyway (((((huge hug))))to you. Please post again and let us know how you are travelling. xx

Thanks Ally.

I watched "The Jane Austen Book Club" the other evening and there was a line in there that applied to my Middle Sister:

One of the ladies was single who had dogs and the gentleman said to her:
"You have dogs (rather than a relationship) because you want to be obeyed."

Exactly .
I am certainly not obeying her anymore.

Humorous metaphors do help get through this muck, but it isn't easy to have it on hand in the moment, is it?

lol Toomanystuffedbears at the Jane Austen line.

Did not mean to post that fast....
my dad used to have a dog, and I think that was his happiest time. That was one obedient dog, that did everything my dad asked him to do.
I have gotten two cuddles out of my dad in [wait trying to figure out how old I am].....35 years. That dog got min. 2 cuddles a day.

I think you should try talking to them first of all.

I think your husband's reason for you not telling them is selfish and it sucks to be quite honest. I also thinks he is behaving very unsupportive in saying that he will be there for you when you tell your brother but not if you decide to tell your parents. That is just not right. They all did this to you not just your brother and grandfather.

Can i please join with you ladies. I posted a thread at the weekend about my mother and how i no longer have contact with her as she is conrolling. This thread was suggested to me.
I haven't posted before now as i didn't feel the need to.
But last night something happened and i'm still angry and feel like crying now.
I live 60 miles away from my mother. I moved to be by my father,step-mum, half brothers and sister and my maternal nan and grandad. Thinking i would have more non controlling support.
My nan and grandad her parents known what she is like she spent 2 years not speaking to them over something. they speak now but rarely and it usually ends up in her putting the phone down on them because they don't tell her what she wants to hear.
Well my dad has been divorced from my mother for over 20 years, she cheated on him. Previously in him and my step mum would slag my mother off, she is crazy, psycho etc etc. That was when i was still in contact with her. My dad and mum rarely spoke as nothing to say to one another.
So my grandad my mothers dad went to hospital on friday as blood sugars were really high and had a fall and blood in urine.
My nan has 6 children, 2 near to where she lives and sees regularly, 1 in australia, 1 in America and 2 that live 60+ miles away (my mum and another daughter) So initially my nan only told her 2 children near her as didn't want to worry everyone. My grandad was in the best place and visiting is only an hour a day. My aunty and i were taking my nan every other night as she doesn't drive. He seemed to be improving thought he might of been home yesterday. Then on Monday night he seemed a lot worse, so she phoned her child in America and let her know. My Aunty was taking her last night and so she didn't want to tell my mum before she had been as my aunty and mum don't get on and can't be in the same room as each other. She was going to call my mother and other aunty last night and let them knowonce she returned from the hospital.
Sorry this is so long winded.
So yesterday early evening i spoke with my dad and told him about my grandad as, he still gets on with them as live in same town.
Then i was waiting for a call from nan last night aftershe had been to the hospital.
She rang to say that my DAD had rang my mum and told her about my grandad
I was and still am so angry and shocked why would he do this. I told him that my nan was going to call them tonight.
I called him to ask him why and he said she phoned him and so he said that he was in hospital and nan would be calling. I told him that he had no business telling her anything. So he said 'i'll talk to you soon' and put the phone down.
I'm so upset i thought my dad respected me, but obviously not he has more respect for her. I just can't believe how spineless he is!!! I know exactly why he has done it because he didn't want to be seen as the bad guy. I just don't understand why he doesn't tell my mother to F*K off and leave him alone he owes her nothing. But obviously she still controls him aswell.
He thinks what i am doing is wrong and says ' she'll never change you might as well except it!'
Sorry for my first post to be such a long one . I'm just so angry and wound up i feel like i have no one to turn to, especially now. She still manages to creep into this life

ActingNormal- I agree with more. Your DH should be supporting YOU, WHATEVER (inbold) you decide to do.

This happened to 'you' not to him. So he has no right to decide who is guilty and who is not.

Your parents are just as culpable as bro and gf. They stood by and allowed this to happen to you when it was their job to protect you.

To brush abuse of their child under the carpet in order to meet their own selfish need to be seen as a 'NORMAL' family is UNFORGIVABLE.

You are being gracious by giving them the chance to re-visit this. They may be moved to see the error of their ways (although they probably wont ) but you are giving them that opportunity to rectify this by laying your feelings on the table.
At the same time you need to do this to enable yourself to heal.

So if DH can not see their part in this he should at least respect your need to heal yourself mentally and emotionally. x