"But we took you to stately homes" part 3

[oneplusone]

Sorry for starting part 3 if it has already been started but i logged on just now and found the previous thread has reached 1000 posts. And my title is not very inspiring, Ally90, please help!

Jingley Jen- I would second what Kaz says with regard to seeking some outside help.

I know about depression I have sufferred and struggled with it since my teens. I am convinced It is when you internalize the anger you feel from your childhood.

Is there anyone you are seeing currently? Are you on AD's? If not then you should see your GP and see if you can get some outside support in order to work through your feelings.

I also believe you are /or were at the point you were at y'day seeing DH as someone from your childhood. Someone who you may have felt rejected by and so was trying to resolve this and get those needs met through DH. If you identify who this person is conciously then you can maybe process these suppressed emotions in a different/ more constructive way.

What Im trying to say is You need to re-direct your anger-away from yourself and away from your DH.

But I know this is not an easy or straightforward task!

I also imagine that somewhere inside there is a script running which is telling you your not good enough....THIS IS NOT TRUE.....this is something someone in your childhood made you think or believe by re-enforcing that message to you by whatever means or methods they took. Did one of your parents critisise you continuously as a child?

This isn't your fault, and as Kaz said you can use this experience as a positive. Use is it to give yourself the strength to move forward.

Please come back and write some more....tell us how you are feeling atm....can you identify who the person from your past is that I spoke of above? ASk yourself 'how am I feeling now' and write it down. You are too disconnected from your own emotions right now to really know what is the route cause here.

(((((hugs)))))

Thank you,
I am feeling fragile today, feeling like I am going to cry at any moment but managing to hold it together. the balance of power in my head is in a better place than yesterday and although part of me still believes that I should go, I am going to stay. Dh has been totally amazing, we have decided some things that we are going to do to make things feel a bit happier, bit less like groundhog day here.
In talking we realised that I have nothing (aside from MN) that is just for me. I do charity work 2 days a week, run 2 mums and tots groups 2 other days of the week and look after the boys and house, it is all I do. I have distanced myself from good friends and now have aquaintances with relationships that wouldn't get to close.
I am going to recontact my best friend, and am going to sign up for a course in sugarcraft at our local college, something I have always wanted to do.
Dh is gently going to help me loose some weight, him telling me he loves me what ever size I am has left me large and wobbly.
None of this deals with the bigger picture, I am not sure I am ready to do that yet.
I don't know what to do about the doctors, I really don't want to take medication. There are also 5 doctors at our local practice I have no loyalty to anyone in particular but it means I really don't know who would be the best to see about this sort of thing.
I have so many messed up ideas of what a normal family should be, I can't identify one person who made me feel like I wasn't good enough. I remember clearly being left at boarding school aged 7 knowing that mum and dad were going home to my brother and that they had a great life without us there, supper parties and stuff that mum would tell me all about in her letters.
On the other hand I also remember having been raped that I confided in a leader at a church group I attended, he made it clear that these things happen for a reason, I must have done something. In fact at the end of term disco, he came up to me and told be I shouldn't go out "dressed like that - you know what might happen" and that I should try to "see the funny side"
It is absolutely like you say smithfield that not being good enough seems to run through my life, with the exception of Dh and my boys... and yet yesterday it managed to filter into that part as well which is I guess why it knocked me so much as it is the one place that I have felt a little self confidence.
Anyway thanks again for responding. Dh keeps making me promise I will grow old and grey with him.. I am not sure I can promise that but I really do want things to get better..

Blimey JinglyJen - boarding school at 7 how horrendous. I can't imagine carting my 7 year old to be without me, I know how much it would destroy him. Even people who think boarding school is great (see other thread) think that 7 is young.

And, raped and to get that reaction from a person in a position of authority who you respected.

Have you read any of the books recommended, toxic parents is a great first read.
www.amazon.co.uk/Toxic-Parents-Susan-Forward/dp/0553814826/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209302064 &sr=8-1.
I highly recommend it, I read it and everyone now and then I would go - of course, how could they etc... Made me think that maybe I wasn't just a screwed up ungrateful brat.

Being nice to yourself is a great first step, but I think the consenus is that you have to revisit the pain to destroy it.

Going to the doctors doesn't mean automatically medicine - it can mean therapy, which would definitely be a good idea.

Jingley Jen-

.... I confided in a leader at a church group I attended, he made it clear that these things happen for a reason,(Yes that reason being that someone breaks the law and a code of morality..and should be
punished!)

I must have done something. (NO you did not! 'They' 'did' something very very wrong...not your fault)

In fact at the end of term disco, he came up to me and told be I shouldn't go out "dressed like that () - you know what might happen" and that I should try to "see the funny side"' [shock ]

I think this would absolutely play a fundemantal part in your feelings of worthlessness Jen. You trusted this person and instead of giving you the support you should have had at this terrible time they 'shamed you'. So at that point someone elses 'terrible actions' (those of the rapist) became your fault.
You became ashamed of yourself for something that was 'not' in your control and for which someone else should have been punished and blamed.

Have you also thought that this may also play a part in how you feel about your body now. Not your husband telling you he loves you as you are, but part of you feels ashamed to 'be' or 'feel' attractive because of this persons thoughtless words and inaction.

You are carrying this shame around with you and the anger you should have been able to direct at your perpetrator (the person you confided in should have 'enabled' you to do this) has now been turned in on yourself.

What this person said to you was WRONG WRONG WRONG! It was NOT YOUR FAULT....and there IS NO FUNNY SIDE to Rape. Like I say you need to find ways to re-direct this anger and send it back where it belongs.
And yes you may already know this on a rational, intellectual level, but I honestly believe on some level you still believe this person was right. Although you may not realise or connect with that currently.

With regard to the boarding school, the fact that you are writing about it speaks volumes.

The act of them sending you and nor your brother and then sending you letters that made you 'feel' excluded were bound to have an impact on one so young . This would have made you vulnerable to the outside world as well I think. The fact you didnt go to them first about the rape aslo speaks volumes to me .

I just want to give the little 7 year old you left feeling 'so' lost and confused a big hug, cos that what she needed...love and affection.

Also..Kaz is right...doctors dont necessarily mean medication ....but they may be able to get you someone professional to talk these things through with....YOU need to KNOW you ARE loveable, a wonderful person in your own right -

Sorry for banging on . You need to hear a different voice to the one thats playing in your head right now.

So try and cut through that voice and Listen to those of us posting and who will continue to post their support of you on here!
AND More importantly listen to you dh and dc's. YOU ARE LOVED!

JingleyJen

I just wanted to say that I really agree with the things Smithfield said and think she really knows what she is talking about (I found her comments to you useful when I apply them to my own stuff)

It is SO damaging when someone you thought you trusted to help you makes you feel ashamed for saying what happened. You then feel like you can't tell anyone else because you don't want to risk feeling how they made you feel by not taking you seriously, then because you don't express the anger and hurt, you swallow it and it turns into depression.

I want to say what Smithfield said again - IN NO WAY WAS IT YOUR FAULT, even if you did wear the 'wrong' clothes or whatever, the person who did that to you KNEW IT WAS WRONG (this is something my therapist keeps saying to me over and over). However much people say this to you on here it can never be too much, you really need it.

From all that has happened to you it is no wonder you feel unimportant - this is how the people who should have cared for you but neglected you have made you feel - but you are SO important to your children and husband. I know this is the hardest thing to make yourself believe.

Why should you believe those people's opinions of you that you were unimportant - their opinion counts for nothing as they are shit people. If you did the things they did to someone eg your children, then you would think you were shit so you know this is true.

It makes me really angry that you should feel like you should die because of some shit people's worthless opinion of you. Don't let them do this to you. Try to focus on what the good people in your life think is good about you. Even writing these positive things down makes you feel a bit foolish but helps I think. I used to have a book to write stuff in - every tiny good thing about the day eg had a nice cuddle with DS. I found myself looking for positive things each day then to put in the book and it helped me see that my life wasn't totally shit and it is worth living (although I have never felt so bad that I've contemplated suicide).

I really hope people's comments on here help a bit.

Thanks for all your kind words. I have continued talking with DH today and have got back in touch with a good rl friend.
I feel so pathetic admitting how I feel about this stuff, My fathers relationship with my sister was very violent and I used to feel envious that he was never interested in hitting me. I was so unimportant to him that he would lash out everywhere except me.
I told my mother that I had been raped 10 years after the fact. she reacted as I expected, well you are ok aren't you, it obviously didn't affect you much.
I have never handled anger/emotions well, Dh and I have always joked that I cry for everything, and he is right, I have always wondered if I should go on an anger management course.
For what it is worth the day I was raped I was wearing a vest (no boobs yet so no bra) long tweed skirt, and a cream jumper that had a collar, I was wearing brown laceup boots and tights... Hardly asking for it.
I can hardly believe how good Dh is being about all this, he has suggested taking time off next week but that is just putting off the enevitable return onto the treadmill.
anyway, I think I am going to see the doctor next week, if I can get an appointment with the right doctor. See how we go from there.

jingleyjen,
SO glad to hear that you sound like your in a better place than the other day.
I have to second what Smithfield said- the anger you feel-this "fight or flight" reaction still at play is not really anything to do with your current family (DH, or DS), but is an ingrained reaction to some other people. (Your DH sounds truly lovely BTW-well done! Many people go on to have not so nice relationships)
I think its sad that your mother wrote to you about all her parties while you were at boarding school - thats insensitive at best, callous at worst!
But what I am really very angry about is that sick, pernicious little man- the "church-leader" who tried to make you believe the rape was your fault, and as Smithfield said, tried to make you feel shame and guilt rather than fight back against what had happened to you.

I cut my mother out of my life and one of the main reasons for doing so was that I was carrying the shame and guilt of her abuse towards me. I mean, I kept thinking I had been born faulty (she said this herself) and that was why I had been so incredibly abused by her. It was the same with my father'S abuse (although I am still somewhat in touch with him). Since cutting her out, and limiting contact with him, I can feel the guilt and shame shifting back to its rightful place. As a child I loved my parents and was constantly trying to protect them from themselves- trying to protect them from feeling the weight of their disgustingly abusive actions. Untill the toll this weight was carrying became too much because when you carry shame and guilt for other people, there is no room for you to move in your own life.
NOw I feel freer, and by not contacting them, I refuse to shoulder the blame for what happened to me. Let them carry it!
At some point you too, will be able to unload all the shame and guilt that has been foisted on you, first by your parents, then the rapist (then that ridiculous church man that will die sad and lonely, I'm sure!)

So today is a new day, I have lots to do, am going to try to see a rl friend this afternoon. I am aware that part of my desperation on Saturday was due to feeling like I had no options I couldn't disturb anyone so to die was the only choice. I have to change that asap so that when the next crisis hits I do have choices.
I have to get through a couple of quite stressful things this afternoon and this evening without making a complete fool of myself, I feel like I am going to cry if I have to talk out loud, perhaps, for once, I will get through things without voicing my opinion.

didn't get to see my friend today, feeling quite down.

Babysteps Jen...babysteps...this is only one day...tomorrow is another day...sometimes its hard to live for the day/week/year...think of doing something this evening...even this at this time of night (bedtime for me...) that is just for you...do your nails? Have a hot bath...have a hot drink...your friend will be there another day... and we will be here too

Hi Jingley Jen
Wrapping one of my quilts around you and

I hope you are safe, Jen. You can recover and heal-it may not be easy or quick, but just know that you can.
I hope you are feeling stronger today. But you know what?--I think it's ok if you are not-superficial recovery to "snap out of it" to placate others is a waste of the progress made in identifying and verbalizing the pain. But again, please keep yourself safe.

I have not been that close to the brink as you told about your experience last weekend; but I am very familiar with the thoughts you described about feeling worthless, in the way, sub-standard or a sort of second class citizen.
I am a SAHM and it is a thankless job and an invisible one too. Your DH and DC do love you as mine love me, Smithfield's loves her, Pages' loves her, Sakura's loves her, Ally's loves her-for everybody: it is an universal truth.

The discussion on "the comments from others" has rung a couple of bells for me. It is a bit abstract and of less importance than what you went through regarding the "church leader" .

I think I just need (needed) empathy. And whenever I sort of fished for it-just wanted some care, or sympathy, or a verbal hug iykwim...and inevitably I'd be disappointed or rather aggravated. Brushed off. Rolling eyes-'grow up and be my own mother' I was told once-less than a year after my mother passed on. Compared less favorably to someone else -usually Middle Sister...(Ok, I didn't know it was a competition-especially since we were all 'being treated equally'. )

So, I'm trainable...I just stopped looking for it. Forever the wall flower, stop going to the dance at all after a while.
My mistake was that I equated not looking for it with not needing it. I convinced myself that my calling was to solitude-which would be a logical conclusion if no one had any empathy for me.

Emotional dormancy-continuing the tradition started in my early childhood.

DH is much better giving me attention. Sometimes it feels like a routine checklist, but at least he acknowledges I am here and have my own crosses to bear so to speak.
I know I can't expect empathy from others (or force them to give it to me).

It is a dilemma.

Giving myself empathy isn't quite the same, either, is it? Take care of myself, do things for myself, does not achieve the fellowship that empathy from another person provides to your heart and soul.

In the eight months (or so) on this thread, I have received more empathy from my wonderful friends here than I have in years from others. This perhaps excludes DH and my Oldest Sister, but that is all. My Middle Sister would much rather snap up the opportunity to analyze and evaluate me; embellish her perceived superiority-kick me while I'm down-treating me like a child.

And all I wanted was 4 or 5 kind words strung together for me.

Sorry for this rambling on. But the connection between empathy unfulfilled and solitude seems to be an important link to understanding my journey.

Smithfield-
Wow your mil must be writing a book on how to be nasty to dil.

A couple of thoughts:
Can dh pick up ds some day- and not tell mil that dh is the one picking up? Even just once? But intermittently might keep mil off balance unless she'd do the same thing to her son.

Can you be determined to skip the drama and simply scoop up ds and leave-in and out in 30 seconds? If any verbalization was needed, simply "Got to go" is all that would need to be said-repeatedly if need be. Even if ds would have a tantrum in the car, it wouldn't be an entertainment venue for mil.

I hope that you have found the antidote to her toxin and do not have to have extensive recovery every time you see her.

Good luck.

barriers started to go back up.. feel so hollow inside but as I am still here life has to go on. I know what needs dealing with now.. I think... I just can't do it now.

JJ - Do you want a copy of toxic parents - its a rip roaring read. Just send me your address to [email protected]

It's a great starting place.

Agree with kaz, the toxic parents book opened my eyes somewhat!. It will certainly change your way of thinking.

Hugs for (((jingley)))

I've got a small problem and I'd love some advice.
As you all know I haven't spoke to my parents for 8 months now. However, I have a cousin (whom I've never met) who found me on GenesReunited about 6 months ago. have told him a little about what's happened but not much.
He's met my parents.

However, recently, he has been forwarding on emails from my mum to him, about this grand family reunion that parents are planning. Long lost uncles and aunties etc, my cousin and his wife are going...
My cousin keeps emiling me to tell me to put dates in my diary, that I should start saving for my train fare etc.

I keep declining as I've already told him umpteen times that I won't get an invite anyway. Even if I did, I probably wouldn't go.
How can I say it in a nice way to tell him to back off with the parents stuff? I just really don't want to know, but he still does it.

It's not as if we've met up, although I'd like to and have asked him a couple of times. I don't want to tell him too much, just for this reason alone.

Anybody got any advice?

Hope everyone is well x x x

I think I must be making 'progress'. When I first went to the therapist I couldn't say a lot of the things I knew I needed to talk about. He suggested I wrote things down and put them in a locked box. I did this and put the things I found most uncomfortable on tiny pieces of paper in small writing and locked them away.

I then felt slightly braver and managed to read out a couple of them to the therapist. Him listening to me properly and taking me seriously made me feel braver and then I was able to tell him more.

After I had said things to him once I found it easier to say the words to him when talking about it in further sessions without having to stare at the floor and force the words out.

He then suggested I write letters to the people who have hurt me, making them face up to the details of what happened and telling them how I felt/feel. He said even if I don't feel I can send them I should write them anyway.

I have written a letter with it all in and thought I would have to put it in the locked box, but I feel I could keep it in my handbag for a bit to test myself and no longer feel so scared or ashamed! I will probably show it to my husband and a couple of close friends who I wanted to tell about everything but found it too hard to say and it will be easier to get them to read it.

The next stage will be to send it to my family, which seems much too frightening at the moment even though I really want to do it.

If these techniques could help anyone or encourage someone who isn't having therapy to go and see a therapist (because I think it works now it seems to be working for me), then that makes me want to write about it on MN.

I haven't got round to getting the Toxic Parents book yet. Would the book be relevant if it wasn't my parents that did bad things it was my grandfather and brother? I tried to tell my mum and she wouldn't help me. Apart from that there must have been signs of how unhappy I was but I feel my parents chose not to notice because they wanted to believe we were a respectable family where nothing bad ever happened and it was more 'comfortable' for them to be dismissive rather than face up to anything.

Message withdrawn

Thinking of you hope it goes well...and your mother is being atrocious because she sensing her control over you is waning...its a good thing! It shows you are getting control over your life...bit by bit Just don't give in to her demands!

Thinking of Podmog and hoping it goes well

Actingnormal - you are changing that is the important thing. Just reading the honesty and straightforwardness of this post, compared to your previous posts is amazing.

I think in order to deal with toxic people from your past you need to be in a strong place. You can do it but its not easy.

You need to stop worrying about how other people might feel (ie: your brother), looking for apologies. Because that gives them power over you. You need to gain back your own power. Seperation is always a good way of reasserting power. It can be temporary or permanent - there are people on here who have divorced their parents.

Maybe a good test is to assess how contact with your brother makes you feel. Do you feel drained, emotional, weak, used, unsure, scared, does it bring back the memories (ie: negative emotions) or positive, happy etc... If it makes you feel shit then you should maybe withdraw from it.
He abused you he deserves nothing, however shit his childhood was.

If your brother has changed and truly loves you then he will understand.

Stop worrying about other people and start worrying about yourself.

'This made me angry for some reason. I also felt angry that he was being allowed to talk about it all and being listened to and people were being sympathetic but I had never been allowed to speak. It felt like a strain making sure I didn't react to what he said and didn't even change my facial expression or body language when the 'experts' kept turning round to stare at me at various points. I don't want to feel I have to keep quiet any more. I'm thinking "what about me?" '

This is healthy thinking - You should listen to 'this' voice, not the one which requires loyalty to this man.

I feel like this relationship with your brother draws on similarities with your grandfather. You felt that the only love you recieved throughout your childhood was from your abuser (your grandfather). Similarly as an adult the only validation for that abuse has come from another abusive relationship with your brother.

None of this was your fault 'they' failed you and presented you with a skewed picture of what love is which you absorbed into your psyche as a child.

None of this was ok and you have every right to be angry.
I think what you say about the anger is proof that somewhere in your subconcious you know this and it is surfacing. Grab onto that anger with both hands.

Smithfield. Thank you. I feel like I need 'permission' to feel angry and each time someone says it is justified I feel a bit better.

I'm a bit confused by the link you make between my bro and my GF.

Before GF did anything I think I felt he loved me. He was affectionate and took an interested in the things I liked doing. He made me laugh. I thought he was cool. When he started doing things I did not feel like he loved me, I felt like he had betrayed me. I almost wrote what he did then, would it be offensive to write it on MN?

I never felt my bro loved me back then. He sometimes said he did but at the time I thought how could he when he seemed to enjoy hurting me, humiliating me, making me cry and relentlessly telling me all the things he thought were wrong with me, and doing a few things I found disturbing in a sexual way (this wasn't the main thing though, these were just a few incidents).

I didn't feel my birth parents loved me because they gave me away.

I didn't feel my adoptive parents loved me because they didn't do cuddling, kissing, praise and encouragement and came accross as cold and unimpressed. They never noticed any signs of how unhappy I was and when I tried to tell mum about bro and GF she was dismissive.

I didn't really have proper friends.

The first person who made me feel loved was my first proper boyfriend who I met when I was 16.

Early experiences did give me the wrong idea about sex though. I felt it was something quite aggressive that men do to women and I didn't realise how wrong it was to let people do what they wanted to me regardless of whether there was any love or affection involved (normally there wasn't).