"But we took you to stately homes" part 3

[oneplusone]

Sorry for starting part 3 if it has already been started but i logged on just now and found the previous thread has reached 1000 posts. And my title is not very inspiring, Ally90, please help!

sakura- I was really struck by your post re your father. It wasnt until a little while after reading it I realised why. You were describing my father to a T.

My parents are also divorced (fairly recently). When my mother had caused so many problems for me during my ds' birth my father also had a chance to stand up for me.

He had visited me (whilst I was heavily pregnant) that xmas. we had talked at length about my mum and her issues etc. I guess looking back it was because at the time it suited him to do so.

Id never really 'directly' had a relationship, just as danae described it....was always mum that would stand between me and him (currently this role has now been taken by my sister it seems).

So when they split I was thrilled to recieve his calls directly and even more thrilled to have 'HIM VISIT ME!!'.

In the January after dads visit, mum came out and as Ive described the night I went into labour we had been arguing all day. WHilst I was contracting she got on the phone to all of my family individually and went on to tell them what A cow I was being in a bid to get them to take her side.

MY mother called my dad (at this stage the divorce had gotten particularly nasty) she asked him pointedly if 'he' thought she was/had been a good mother. My dad replied 'Yes of course you are a good mother...you've been a great mother to all of our kids'. My mother then told me this gleefully afterwards.

He knew how upset she had made me that night, he ALSO knew certain things I had revealed about how she had behaved whilst he was at work toward us. At the time he'd looked shocked. BUT when 'He' had his chance to put me first for once. To stand up for me....cut throught the briars.... He didnt.

So from Danaes question I would pick B, absolutely.

In the course of time I have realised that he does only please himself. That he 'for whatever reason' has to have a female dominating him/to hide behind.

The other thing I realise is that I always blamed mum for 'his' behaviour.

In fact the most honest thing my mother has ever said to me was when I was aged 10/11 and myself and her were on the other side of the door that my father was trying to smash his fist through. She looked at me and said, 'You blame me for this dont you.' She was spot on.

I have come to realise...slowly...painfully...ThAT my childhood hero.... my father..... was a self absorbed, often violent, often cruel, manipulative child/man...who would choose a drink over his kids anyday. Still chooses a drink over his grandkids.

And Danae I love your description that your dad was INFACT having a snooze and reading a paper.

Mine was in fact working hard down the pub.

Danae- That is terrible. It makes me so sad reading that. I know you have moved on quite a bit...I wish I could skip ahead and catch you up. I just cant understand why a father would or could say that to his child?

For me, Having just written that post seems to have opened the floodgates. Am having a good old fashioned 'external' cry. The strange thing is it seems to be more to do with a seperate realisation I have just had.

Yes..'I did blame my mum'....but not in the way I thought when I just wrote that post. Not in the way I ever up until now believed.

I realise 'now' I blamed her for staying.

He was abusive, emotionally and physically. Physically more toward her than us. But instead of leaving him, she stayed??

Not only that. But she blamed 'me' for her weakness and inability to leave. I became her scapegoat. Her oftentimes viciousness was borne of her own inner anger at not having the strength to walk out.

When I was 3/4 he had an affair and walked out on me and mum. I ran out after him on that day...screaming daddy please dont leave. He didnt give me a second glance. Jumped in his soft top triumph and drove off.

He didnt give a shit what happened to us. But instead of my mum feeling any anger toward him and using that positively to move on. She chased after him. Followed him back to London. Flaunted me in front of his family in a bid to win him back.

When he did 'take her' back. There were conditions. She should not work. She must live in London.

Again these became more manifestations of unhappiness for her to lash out about.

Indeed I remember one night dad layed into me and I heard her coming up the stairs. I remember thinking 'Its ok, mums coming she'll protect me'. But she didnt.

She joined in. Then when dad had continued on his rampage, taking his frustrations out on the downstairs lounge,turning furniture upside down and such like.

She blamed me for it. 'Look what you've done now' she screamed.

So yes I blamed her. For not protecting me, like a mother should have.

I wish I could move on from all this. Today I feel like the sadness will never ever disipate. The damage has been done. I am damaged goods, cut price, no good to anyone. And always will be.

Danae- Just crossposted with you.

The post I just wrote (strangely). The reason for my fathers anger was that he had caught me with a bottle of gin and a bottle of tablets.

Yes I think I wanted attention, to see if maybe I was wrong that they did care. Or that over my hospital bed they would suddenly realise they did in fact love me.

Smithfield and Danae- I have similar feelings of worthlessness-who would miss me? -exactly. Dh and dc do keep me going too. I have not felt specifically suicidal since college and I did not act then as "I'm not a quitter" -superficial platitude- kept myself alive or rather not dead. Later years, I felt so invisible-just a pulse beat away...from ? relief ? NO, I'm here for the long haul.
My self-reflection journey including causing anxiety for ds to be in counseling made me realize I am "damaged goods", too, and yes that hurts.

I remember one of my first posts here I said "I have successfully fooled myself for twenty years, how will I fool myself for the next twenty?" Fool myself-this would be a tangent topic-the choosing to be happy theory, seemingly (volunteering to be) oblivious to social/emotional reality. Creating our own validation history is the right thing to do. But it used to feel hollow without being able to share it with anyone for even the slightest acknowledgment (or I'd be 'bragging'). Now that I'm older, I do things for me to basically 'fill time'. I have enjoyment, but I don't rely on other's recognition for fuel to do it. Not necessarily 'meaningless activity' (like laundry), but artistic production of useful items-quilts.

It also brings valid questions to 'it is me, not her' around the NPD types: ie Who am I to judge? Feels like it is valid for society to discriminate against me because of my brain didn't get the top grade wiring package from my parents as an infant. I know exactly what you mean, Danae, about the constant coaching yourself, always being 'on guard', careful what to say, etc. to be 'normal' and to 'fit in'. It seems so superficial, though and it makes me feel like I'm a puppet or participating in a performance or am being constantly graded which is irritating.

How I am glad that dh is a civil servant and we do not entertain! That is immense relief for me.

There is sadness at the core of my emotional existence. It is from my being emotionally defective...like a big piece of the pie of life is not available to me (the piece where happiness and fellowship lay). I am good at pretending to not need it-my 'calling' to solitude-and keeping myself distracted with learning-a thirsty brain. But I am beginning to doubt that my brain's thirst will be quenched with academics or projects or new recipes/quilts/gardens. My new baby is working some wonders, though-love and joy know no bounds these weeks, even though I know it is temporary. Or more accurately, I know the baby is not the solution (rather an intense distraction).
I am feeling moving towards giving up on my sadness-it won't be solved, ever. Is this is yet another level of invisibility-forget about mine (sadness) and work on the future for the dc? The grief for what will never happen has been acknowledged. It is part of me, but I don't need to make it the whole me.

Sorry this is so muddled; random strands to the web of self-reflection...
but thanks - this is helping me to understand more and I feel the more understanding I have, the more I can accept myself for me (and that somehow goes beyond the concept of forgiveness-forgive myself for being me)(although that did help a great deal).

Suicide-yes this is an inevitable topic for people who were abused as children. AS TMSB(I think) said below, when you look at all the self-help books for depression on the shelves, you just become flummoxed at the pointlessness of them all. The crux, the real core of the matter is dealing with the childhood pain, and only then the depression will lift. It has almost nothing to do with the present (well, apart from certain situational depressions). Its as though a lost of the "experts" are missing the point, or just trying to make a few quid.
My feelings of being desperately suicidal have come and gone throughout my life. I have never got the old Christian adage that it is selfish to commit suicide. I used to wonder about this. SElfish . I worked out that this apparently meant that it was selfish because of the grief you would put your family through. I suppose that could be considered selfish, but I do not believe that suicide is an inherently selfish act and I think that people who say it is have no idea what it is like to be truly suicidal. It is really just a desperate need to cease to be so that the pain will finally go away for once and for all. And a truly deep knowing that the world and your loved ones will be better off without you.
What helped me sometimes was to think about a myth (greek, I think), about a man condemmed to death, who was hanging on a precipice about to fall off a cliff. He realised that life- life in any way shape or form was better than death. "Just to live, he thinks. Just to be, and just to live, in any way whatsoever, would be better than death. ANd I imagine if I was condemmed to death in that way, and I know I would fight tooth and nail to stay alive. TO live to see the sun rise another day. And when I think about it like that, I realise that I do want to live. When I imagine if the choice was taken out of my hands (cancer, for example), I know that I do want to live instead of die. But in those dark moments (that are much less frequent these days), I have to just know that my daughter would be devastated if I was gone. Perhaps not me, personally, but studies show that it is catastrophic for a childs development if a mother dies. So you know that your life is so significant to your children. TO be honest, I felt that this was a burden for a while. Before DD my life belonged to me, and suicide was always an option. But now it isnt- ever. And there is something very claustrophobic about that. Even if Im 70, I have to stay alive for her. But hopefully Ill find a way of making it work!
(Please watch the film "THe HOurs" about Virginia Woolf-it is such a fantastic film which touches on these issues in a tasteful way)
SMithfield, Im glad my post about my father helped you come to some sort of realisation about your own. Its just that as children, it was too intolerable for our little minds to realise the precariousness of a situation where neither parent was looking out for our welfare. So because we were survivors, we invented a scenario, where our father was the good guy. Unfortunately, he wasnT and its only now that we are adult, our brain is allowing us to realise this . Now that we are safe. [safe]

Sorry I lurk here most days now, but Danae, Smithfield you touched on a horrible topic.

Parents and suicide.

It takes me back to a time when I was 15 and fell into bed with a tv celebrity. He was my crush and took my virginity. My mum found a letter I had written to him.
She came into my room and pulled down every pic that I had. Then she told my dad, who whipped my arse with leather studded belt. (was a goth at the time)

That very night I will always remember, and Smithfield, you touched upon it exactly.
I was 15 and they found me with gin and pills. I really wanted to die.
Swimming in and out of consciousness, I remember my mum finding me and yelling at my dad to call an ambulance. My dad yelled back at her 'leave the dirty slut ther to die'. He came storming into my room, I know there was puke everywhere...and the bastard kicked me in the head. My mum cried. That man I call my father never visited me in hospital.

On the subject of suicide itself, I have attempted too many time to remmember. I did it again just after my divorce, dad promised us a house on the proviso we blanked off exh (kids dad) he told me i wasn't his daughter..addded to the stress of divorce, new single mum etc. Remember waking up in the James Paget hospital, my dad never came and when I got home, there was graffiti painted all over my bathroom wall. I painted it, I think. White emulsion, big bold letters, HURT PAIN CUT END PEACE all over the wall.

This has touched such a raw nerve.
But I'm glad it's been brouight up.

I now think I am bipolar. Because my parents never taught me howe to deal with things. Hell yeah they threatened to put me in care cause I got caught shoplifting at the age of 12. I was being bullied. They set me on fire, threw acid in my face at school...but my parents never fecking asked me about that.

Sorry I lurk here most days now, but Danae, Smithfield you touched on a horrible topic.

Parents and suicide.

It takes me back to a time when I was 15 and fell into bed with a tv celebrity. He was my crush and took my virginity. My mum found a letter I had written to him.
She came into my room and pulled down every pic that I had. Then she told my dad, who whipped my arse with leather studded belt. (was a goth at the time)

That very night I will always remember, and Smithfield, you touched upon it exactly.
I was 15 and they found me with gin and pills. I really wanted to die.
Swimming in and out of consciousness, I remember my mum finding me and yelling at my dad to call an ambulance. My dad yelled back at her 'leave the dirty slut ther to die'. He came storming into my room, I know there was puke everywhere...and the bastard kicked me in the head. My mum cried. That man I call my father never visited me in hospital.

On the subject of suicide itself, I have attempted too many time to remmember. I did it again just after my divorce, dad promised us a house on the proviso we blanked off exh (kids dad) he told me i wasn't his daughter..addded to the stress of divorce, new single mum etc. Remember waking up in the James Paget hospital, my dad never came and when I got home, there was graffiti painted all over my bathroom wall. I painted it, I think. White emulsion, big bold letters, HURT PAIN CUT END PEACE all over the wall.

This has touched such a raw nerve.
But I'm glad it's been brouight up.

I now think I am bipolar. Because my parents never taught me howe to deal with things. Hell yeah they threatened to put me in care cause I got caught shoplifting at the age of 12. I was being bullied. They set me on fire, threw acid in my face at school...but my parents never fecking asked me about that.

Purpleone. I Just feel so honestly sad and helpless reading your post about yourself at 15. Are you still in contact with your dad? (sorry if you have already mentioned)

Gosh so much to say...such little time to say it. I have just been for a long walk with dd and wish I could just press a button to produce a transcript of my thoughts.

Will try and condense and be succinct...but you will all have gathered Im a bit rubbish at that.

Danae- Something struck me yesterday. You are still in touch with your parents and I only have had a period of 4/5months of not speaking to mine.

Do you think this also impacts on our continual feelings of inner worthlessness?

The reason I ask is because I have to admit up until yesterday I was contemplating speaking to my mother. Bit of pressure from Middle DB, but I was thinking that maybe I could have 'some sort' of relationship with her, if not for me, for my dc's.

Then after posting y'day I began to have lots of things resurface. The fact is that my mother compounds these feelings of worthlessness and has continued to do so for 40years. Thats fourty years of programming! So whatever wiring that happened in my early childhood, my mother (and probably my father too) have been servicing it.

Anything good in my life she has stamped rubbish all over it. From my husband to my dc's... to my career..to my role as mother. ANYTHING. Its like she is determined to doggedly ensure that if I have any inclination toward self worth it his HER job to stamp it out. I didnt realise how much she tarnishes everything.

Now I am the only one of her children to produce the long awaited 'grandaughter'. But I know this will be tarnished too, if I allow it.

This reminds me of the terrible comment your mother made about your dd at xmas Danae. So I see the similarity. You produce something wonderful which proves your worth. Your mother feels compelled to point out the 'imaginary' flaws.

The most damaging relationship I have ever had was with a man who did exactly the same. I'd lose weight and he'd point to a tiny bit of fat on my belly. I'd get a great job, he tell me maybe it was too much for me to take on. My confidence, self esteem was at rock bottom and only began to return to any sort of level where I could at least function after I cut him out of my life entirely.

So Danae I have to ask this of you. Do you not feel that such damaging comments, as your father, sister have recently made would not re-enforce those own long held self belief that Yes we are are in fact miserable losers. (we are not by the way...but thats what...for whatever reason they want us to believe).

I know for my part this has made me re-determine to keep my mother out of my life...for as long as it takes....And if I never get to where I want to be....then I guess I will never speak with her again.

My thoughts of re-connecting with her were borne out of a sadness of not having a mother and thinking surely better to have a mother than not. BUT no so she is still damaging me as much today as she was when I was just a child.

BTW this is just a question Danae to how you feel about my rantings...dont want to come accross directive in any way.

Sakura- What you said is so true. About experiencing the pain of childhood to begin to heal. I have terrible trouble with this. To the point where I was reluctant to read any more Miller books. Having read one it upset me and I didnt know why.
I picked up one of her books y'day. It said what you did in your post. That I HAVE to re-experience these childhood traumas. The fact is I am finding this so difficult. My memory is acting as a barrier and I know this is a subconcious protection currently.
If I dont begin this process in ernest I will continue to Internalise my anger (depression) or project it on to DH and (becoming more and more now) Ds.

I need to find another therapist. Mine has announced she is leaving and I have not seen her since before the birth. There is more and more things resurfacing and I need a safe place to deal with it.

Sakura- You mentioned your anger toward DH and DD has resolved, what do you attribute this too. Sorry I cant remember if you are seeing a therapist too. Or is there a lot of self work you are doing?

BTW I loved your FU. I feel the same way. Yes of course we want mothers. More than anything. To not have them leaves us with haunting sadness. But it wasnt meant to be. BUt we are blessed in other ways, and when the cloud lifts I will see how this terrible imbalance has been redressed.

Purple one- Wanted to write a seperate post to you. ((((hug)))). Its more of the same from my post above.

Somewhere down the line our fathers were made to feel worthless and so instead of dealing with that (or even being aware of it) They projected it onto us.

Therefore every message concious, and unconcious we have recieved has stated and re-instated that fact.

Thats a huge dish to be served at 15. A compounding moment where the messages that he probably sent you all your life merged together.

There you were fighting for your life and your father says 'well actually good'. What a horrible disgusting man he is. But of course I can say this because he is just a man to me and not my father. But I also relate to it, because my father may not have said the words 'let the the slut die' but by choosing to beat me, then turn the house upside down and leave, he may as well have done.

But you have to know that what he made you internalise by doing that to you was his own self hatred.

That's what we all have to try and extricate ourselves from. The belief we are what our parents projected on to us. That was their own belief of themselves...not any way a reality of who we are.

Smithfield, regarding the rage, I think it was a number of things. I havent had therapy yet, by the way, but I talked through a lot my problems with my grandmother, who I was living with when the shit hit the fan. Without that outlet, I would definitely have had a nervous breakdown or worse. Anyway, I read a lot, and the first thing that struck me was the way abusers often say "She <span class="italic">made</span> me do it".Then the reply is always "NO one can <span class="italic">make</span> you do something" Either you do it or you don't but either way the action and the responsibility for the action comes from within you, not from an external force. This resonated with me, and I finally understood why some people are angry people and some people are inherently peaceful. The angry people are <strong>displacing</strong> the rage that they (rightly) feel towards their parents, and are channeling that rage into a safer bet i.e a spouse or child. But it is still their rage (what the AMericans call "owning" your emotions) When I realised this, the fog lifted, and I stopped being a victim of DHs "unfairness" or "unreasonableness". I would feel the anger bubbling up, but I would catch it and say to myself "HAng on, there are other ways of dealing with this" . DOnT get me wrong, DH and I still argue, sometimes passionately , but there is no nasty undercurrent of rage or lack of control anymore. TO blame others for your anger or rage is to say that you are not to blame for your feelings, which lets you off the hook, but it is also to say that you are a helpless victim of your rage- that this is the way it has to be and that nothing can be done about it. I felt so empowered knowing that I didnT have to be an angry person. That this didn`T need to be part of my identity anymore.
SO I suppose the short answer is that I intellectualised my emotions and used the knowledge I had gained to conquer them.

sakura- I understand completely what you are saying. I think I only recently connected with having anger toward my dh, as being displaced anger. Up until that point I actually believed partly he was just 'p'ing' me off, and yes that I was just an angry person. But I still havent got a handle on it.

But maybe I am half way there.

But another question for you. What did you then do with that rage? Because Im guessing it has to go somewhere.

Were there certain things that you did to direct it elsewhere or Was just knowing that you were angry with your parents enough to disipate it?

Hi all, I wanted to share with you the discussions that I had with my therapist about suicide (and madness actually). When I was seriously fantasising about how/when/where I would commit suicide, she made me realise that it was an exit strategy and that it had actually become the only exit strategy that I could see as I just couldn't deal with what was going on in my life. She pointed out that there are other ways of resolving issues than running away from them.

I also had a couple of instances where I thought I was properly going mad and this too was my inner child (Little G ) making up ways for me to deal with the problems in my life rather than to continuously ignore them (and her). This made sense to me and I could see that I was hoping for a way out through being ga-ga. I have been so strongly hard-wired to ignore myself and my needs that suicide/madness seemed an acceptable option to my brain. How can that be?

TSMB you mention that you are glad you don't have to entertain clients and that made me think that I would be fine at that because I am just a mirror to other people. I don't really know who I am or what I like doing so I'm probably the easiest person in the world to talk to. I just agree with people. I am so disconnected with myself that I don't know who I am until Little G shows up and demands some attention or else she's going to make the people round me pay!

I feel like I am spouting utter nonsense and that even in a safe place like here, no one wants to listen to my ramblings and that they don't even make sense. I know what is causing me to feel anxiety - one of my sisters is returning from abroad soon and I am scared about how this will change the relatively ok relationship I have with my parents at the moment. From the second she gets back, it will be all my mum can talk about (she will be living with them). My other sister (Sister 1) refuses to talk about Sister 2 with me and treats me like some sort of inpatient at Rampton whenever I bring her name up. This makes me so angry - Sister 2 manages to polarise the family and brings out the worst in everybody and I don't want it to happen. I also get so angry at myself that I still care about this stuff - why do I care what Sister 2 is doing and what impact it has on my crazy family?

Thank you all for listening to me.

Gloriana, its interesting that suicide and madness are acceptable to us, but standing up to our parents and facing what they have put us through isn't. It must be because we were treated in a way that was so utterly against nature and how things were meant to be. THroughout evolution, nothing could have prepared our little brains for the abuse that was to come. We trusted that we were going to be born into a rainforest tribe with peaceful loving parents and extended family... And being "hard-wired" as you say, to obey the "tribe", and seek approval from our elders- the basic instinct to trust the people who care for us, meant that going mad/suicidal was a more acceptable option for us than to admit that our elders were highly faulty people!
(The COntinuum Concept (Jean Liedloff) goes into this in a lot of detail.)

Gloriana, about your sister coming back. If your mums going on about her, could the bad feelings be your mum's fault, rather than your sister's?. THe reason I ask is because I think my mother used to go on about my achievements to my brother, while simultaneously abusing me. But since I've been 'excommunicated' (and I was the only one who was academic out of the 5 of us kids), my mother now boasts about her boyfriend's children's achievements to my brother . When he told me this I just rolled my eyes and told him not to listen to her.
What I mean is, if a good relationship with your mother depends on your sister not being there, to what extent does the fault lie with your mother, and to what extent does it lie with your sister? But maybe others have different opinions on this.

SMithfield, yes I think just 'knowing' was enough. I now recognise where the voice in my head is coming from. Its not me, its my mother's voice. It all makes so much sense now.
When I had the run in with MIL, I did feel an intense rage towards her, well anger, I would say. Before I realised that she was extremely toxic and damaging, I was turning that anger onto myself and DH. When I had my realisation about her, the anger came flooding out of me. But there is a difference between feeling the anger and acting out the anger. I got the anger out by writing on here, and going for long walks and writing in journals, then I dealt with the problem in a calm, adult way
Anger is an incredibly healthy emotion(a loyal friend), because it is a compass to tell us when something is wrong. It is a natural emotion and theres no need to be afraid of it,. If I feel angry then I know I have to work out the cause, and change something in my life. But ranting and raving on the other hand, is your own reaction to the anger, and nobody needs to live like that.
I often ask myself how a 'normal' person would react in the same situation. What would be normal? In the case of my MIL I knew that no young woman in the 21st century would be putting up with her shit. SO I knew the anger was right and good. I think if she spoke English, I would have snapped at her and ranted but the language barrier forced me to not react. This was a perfect lesson for me in learning how to deal with the anger. TOxic people love angry reactions from their victims, because they become the victim and the angry person looks like an irrational person.

What I also started doing was writing. I've almost completely a short story. Lots and lots of energy has gone into it, and I'm assuming anger too. I think 'damaged' people tend to be very creative anyway (we discussed below about successful artists and actors who had terrible childhoods). Or maybe were as affected as we were because we were born sensitive. WHen my mother wrote me a letter revealing the "secret" that I was born with special needs, what could have been possible was that I was born a highly sensitive child. On mumsnet, there are often replies about difficult babies saying that it could be because they were highly sensitive/intelligent. If a baby is sensitive anyway, its likely to cry more if its needs aren't met, thereby insighting even more anger in its caregiver. MOre "Placid" children might be seen as better babies. SO I think there is definitely a corellation between sensitive/artistic/intelligent people and childhood abuse.

Sakura - thanks so much for your message. I will think about the me, Sister 2 and my mum dynamic. I know that my mum is partly to blame and she loves nothing more than to complain about a situation (so here it would be the fact that Sister 2 has come back and mum is doing everything for her and her child) and then use me to have the reaction to Sister 2 (ie I get angry that mum is being taken advantage of and have a massive go at Sister 2). I then look like the Bad Guy (as you point out above) and somehow my mum has offloaded her negative feelings on to me. I KNOW this happens and yet I still can't help being drawn into this situation which has happened so many times in my life. It is a real problem for me and I am getting really anxious about it all happening with Sister 2's arrival.

On your point about babies and that sensitive babies are more likely to have experienced their needs not being met, the stories I have heard from my family about my babyhood involve being left to cry. My aunt told me that I would be left to cry for long periods of time and she felt that it was too long and mum would not let anybody else go to me. My mum has also told me about me coming to my mum and dad's room at night - unable to talk, just little me with my blankie - and being shouted out to go away by my dad. Mum of course blames dad for that but I think why couldn't she have come and given me a cuddle to make sure I was OK rather than just being told to get out? It makes me so very sad to think of a little girl being treated like that . Sometimes (as Danae mentioned), it seems such a hard slog to overcome patterns that have been learnt ever since babyhood.

Hi Just some random ramblings from me again Im afraid.

re anger issue again. I went to see my therapist last night. She is leaving soon and I will have to find another, but I felt I really needed to speak to someone in the interim, now Im really glad I went.

Discussed the whole anger thing and she said she felt it was all about me trying to achieve perfection, which also leaves me needing to 'control' everything.

The need for perfection is of particular significance to me in the home. Obviously because my childhood was so shitty and so I put immense pressure on myself to have the 'perfect' environment for my dcs, and not re-create the atmosphere I was brought up in.

Obviously the perfection I seek is unattainable so this in itself is a constant source of stress for me.

This especially makes sense with regard to DH because most of the anger comes when I feel he has done something wrong or incorrectly in the house, I focus on the imperfection within the task....so in other words I project this perfectionist ideal onto him and then get frustrated and angry if 'he' falls short (which of course he always will, because neither of us can produce this ideal of perfection).

This makes so much sense to me now, because, as I mentioned before, and I think Danae mentioned about stress levels increasing when out in public. SO being out with 2 dcs, or in front of family who mI feel are judging me becomes like a pressure cooker situation for me. I have even more pressure to manage it all perfectly.
I also wonder if this is the source of rage when dd is crying. Because her cries would be like a signal to me that Im doing things wrong, 'useless mummy', which of course is ridiculous when I write this logically, but I am dealing with raw emotion at the time.

This tension can not be good for my Dc's my son is very sensistive to my moods Im sure....so I have to deal with this now...because by having this skewed way of dealing with family life Im falling short of what Im trying to achieve in the first place.

Sakura- the penny has finally dropped now (it hadnt really before) but I finally get the link with the voice in my head scenario. My mother demanded perfection. Nothing was ever good enough for her 'ever'. So I probably got very stressed trying to please her, but all she would ever point out is what Id got wrong.
So this is her voice or her projection, causing the anger (indirectly). As in it is her that needs/needed me to be perfect, not me or my family. I need to choose not to listen to it anymore.

Also I had another 'AH ha' moment with regard to all of this after the session.
I remember reading Beverley Engels stuff on Shame and Guilt. Shame is probably what I felt mostly as a child, because I consistently fell short of expectations.
So when things are perceptively perfect at home instead of feeling/getting in touch with some very painful feelings of 'shame' I vent instead. So a la Miller I need to sit with that feeling of shame and absorb it I think rather than try and offload it onto DH, if Im ever going to get past this.

This also makes sense now as to why I have always procrastinated and never gone on to achieve anything. The pressure is too immense and the feeling of shame for not achieving perfection is too painful. So I dont bother or I give up.

Before I got pg with Ds I got half way through a masters of law. It was the best thing I ever did for myself in terms of self esteem and I think I only allowed myself the right to persue it in the first place because I had been 'physically' removed from my family for 4 years and I had met DH in that time who was had a very positive impact on my confidence because of his support and love.

But I was plagued by inadequacy and feelings that if I could not achieve top marks in everything then It was not worth proceeding as I was not worthy of doing it. Credits were just not good enough. So when my son came, there was a perfect excuse to bow out and say I didnt want it anyway. But deep down I did.

Im so glad Ive come to this realisation. I feel having this better understanding is so important...even if this is just a rational breakthrough at least I can now get to work now on the emotional.

So Im nowhere close to becoming a shallot yet but feel like Im getting there... yay.

Smithfield, thanks for your post. You must have an angel baby to allow you time on MN. Mine is sweet as candy...not like my first-very touchy.

Having a background in architecture, this explains why I am so hesitant to finish the drawings to have our basement finished. The contractors will have a good laugh-is a feeling that just won't go away. Especially being a female in the male dominated profession, I have always been acutely aware that I was always open game for ridicule for anything-even when everything I did was acceptable, there was no doubt that someone would say something demeaning, or condescending. It wasn't always from the men, either . I am aware that if one assumes that she will be insulted, then it is easy to perceive insults; but that wasn't the case here.

The insults were so regular, that I took to preempting them by putting myself/my work down before anyone could insult it...a bad habit I am still trying to break. The thing about the design profession, after a certain standard is met (code) design is subjective so any solution could be rejected. No way out, except out.
Choosing to be a SHAM wasn't hard (thankfully dh had/has a nice/secure job). I thought I should regret not being in the profession anymore (think the education costs, and a professional license) -and whenever I think about it, I am left with ambivalent feelings. So no pointed regrets. A shopping list of relief that I am no longer in it doesn't hurt.
From my journey of self-reflection, though, I believe I pin pointed a reasoning why this profession was never going to work for me (not even from the start ). The profession is hugely social-convincing people to invest in subjective solution that may or may not be the best answer. From my upbringing, I am socially challenged. Although my parents took me on a nice two week beach vacation every year ('stately homes'), they were not available to me emotionally. So the emotional minefield of the design profession-office politics/back stabbing, fussy clients, NPD bosses, 'sporting' contractors- were conditions in which I could not thrive (no matter how many excellent drawings I could do, or neat models I could build).
So I grieve my lost potential, also, for choosing the wrong career path, and for refusing to 'quit' until physical illness was upon me (IBS and chronic bronchitis). I feel angry at the profession, but then I catch myself and realize it wasn't the profession, it was my lack of emotional nurturing that caused my failure. And yes- failure is the right word. It is hard to say, admit; but it is true. Accept and move on. I can't really see how my weakness could be "fixed" either-not like I could sign up for a class at the community college to fix myself. The pay scale and the liability risks do not make it worth while to simply avoid not using the education/license.

Regarding Middle Sister-
I think a source of her perceived superiority comes from the fact that I do not use my education/license. Perhaps my father did show her some favor for having a professional career with her education, even though she is not employed in her field of study.

Life goes by-as someone was posting about recently. I will recover and put my design energies into my quilts, which I think will be completed more rapidly since figuring this out...
but only AFTER I finish the blasted basement drawings.

hello all,
i hope i find you all feeling ok, i still have not been to see mark (my psychologist) although have an appointment for beginning of may.
im not sure how i feel about stuff, but am acutely aware that i need to address my issues, and i think this thread had given me the courage to do just that,
i dont think i will post again, for a while, i think i have a few personal bridges to cross first, and i also think it will be very painful,
i would like to say however that you have all showed me great kindness, and i wish you all the best with your own personal journeys.
take the greatest of care, all of you.
all my love, matilda x

Just thinking, re: suicide. If I were to hang myself from a tree in the garden, none of my extended family would give a damn (where we live). My leaving would make no difference, so it really is a waste of time, for me to take that action. I would hurt my immediate family and my mum. I'm v. upstet to be supposed to be recovering from major surgery after a cancer diagnosis and all I am asked is when are we moving out, what are our plans, what are we doing next? I have been reeling for some time and I'm breaking down now. My parents are hopeless - dad a psychotic nutter (read violent deluded brute) and my mother has alzeimers. It is horrible how being surrounded (though not literally) is so so so so damaging. I am behaving like a paranoid nutter too.

Lionbeast, can I please ask you what the book said about not having to forgive? I have a great deal of difficulty with this , so I'd be grateful for your thoughts.