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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But we took you to stately homes" part 3

1000 replies

oneplusone · 01/03/2008 14:10

Sorry for starting part 3 if it has already been started but i logged on just now and found the previous thread has reached 1000 posts. And my title is not very inspiring, Ally90, please help!

OP posts:
Danae · 08/04/2008 16:47

Message withdrawn

kaz33 · 08/04/2008 16:56

Danae - probably a bit of both really, also I think there is a tendency for our parents to relinquish responsibility for their actions when their kids grow up. An almost well it wasn't perfect but for gods sake get over it !

They see us adults, they might have been desperate for us to stop being kids (certainly mine did) but we still view ourselves as children desperately looking for the love that we never had. So they look at us and probably see us as much competent and sorted than we actually feel and we look at them and feel angry, hurt, rejected, vindictive, unlovable. So with two opposing viewpoints we can never communicate.

kaz33 · 08/04/2008 16:58

Danae - I think my dad was A and B and in addition he also created his own dsyfunctional patters

But I do love them and how ever much they hurt me they are my parents and I do love them. Whether we ever be able to have a meaningful relationship I don't know, only time will tell....

smithfield · 08/04/2008 17:44

Lionbeast- Just as the others have said really.

I can also empathise myself with the breastfeeding. My mother used to burst into my bedroom (where I'd been driven to feeding ds to escape her critical eye)
Hands on hips, she'd gasp and say 'ARE YOU FEEDING HIM AGAIN', yep he was a nb too.

You have done well to recognise her behaviour for what it is.
Yes, my mum can be nice too, but it's usually when there is something in it for her or she is trying to give an impression of being a good mum to someone else who is present at the time OR she feels threatened in some way.
For example when I moved closer to dh's family and she found out MIL would be helping out with chiuldcare....=major threat to her, out comes miss'es nice....never for long though.

danae- just wanted to say sorry about your sister. But I can only re-iterate what the others have said.
You have no doubt in your mind that they are what they are and for your sister to have knowledge/memory of such horrendous abuse but choose to play it down/ignore it is just plain ugly and disrespectful.
You are not the nutter they want....sorry NEED you to be in order to make themselves ok.
YOU are the strong one, possessing an inner strength they will never have.

Gloriana- Im glad I made you smile. Like Danae said humour wil set us free. Feel better refferring to her now as bonkers as it kind of makes her smaller and less scary.
Having said that I am dropping ds off their tommorrow and although Ive told myself its just the one day a week I still feel a bit twisted inside about it.

Re your dcs project...did you experience this yourself as a child...I guess as ally has already said, can you find a link?
Would it be worth sitting down with dc's and discussing it with them (sorry dont have dc's of this age) But I am sure when I do Im going to have similar experiences.

Ally- jury's out for me at the moment.
Currently- I dont miss them. I still have flashes of anger. Still have flashes of regret. But the regret is more for what I will never have.

TMSB- thanks for the definition. puts it into perspective for me...definately not indifferent, but definately detatched.

With regard to ms- I know exactly where you are with this. This is exactly how I felt about my mother prior to dd's birth.
It is a phase and it will pass, and you owe this seperation to yourself and your family.
As ally said she wont be giving you the same mental treatment... there will be no FOG in her camp I bet'ya.

CWE- 'My Mother has literally throughout my life, criticised every decision I have made, esp in those important formative years- been the one in my ear whispering that I couldn't do it and low and behold I couldn't. '

I absolutely relate to this, my mother was/is the same. The problem is I took her criticism and absorbed it and now it is part of my make up.
The inner critic ...a very destructive force indeed.

ally90 · 08/04/2008 18:17

Danae...gutted my dad was on my mothers side. He took the same line...either get back with your mother or that's it. Backed her up completely.

So I cut him off too My therapist felt I wanted him to take sides. Yes a part of me did ie like St George and the dragon (). Failing that I wanted him to see/hear/acknowledge validate my childhood experiences.

However after that, (back to breaking contact) I was fine. No grieving but for one day of it. We were never emotionally close, just whinged about my mother together. And I listened to him moan about everything and ramble on about history/politics/anything else he actually knew bugger all about.

Lionbeast, definately don't fall for the nice bits...like others say it just reels you back in again. My mother used to cry crocodile tears, then when she had me good and proper by her side again she'd dig in her talons...yet if you met her on the street you'd think her such a dear sweet old thing

Smithfield - at least you have cut down and are taking back control... just think 'bonkers mil bonkers mil bonkers mil'...just don't say it too her by mistake

Podmog · 08/04/2008 19:09

Message withdrawn

lionbeast · 08/04/2008 20:11

hi everyone thanks for all your great insight,
kaz, you said perhaps i thought my dad was perhaps the more innocent one, or words to that effect, i really don't know, i do blame him for not stopping her and just being a bystander,perhaps he turned a blind eye or maybe he was more involved than i think. i will bear in mind not to hope dads going to say, oh god she didnt really do that or say that did she, but our house was always one where problems where never disgused it was all brushed under the carpet.
so if dad doesnt seem horrified by what i am about to reveal to him, ill try to be prepared.
think they've got a shock coming as ive never really stood up to them much in 30 years, although i have more since i had dd.
for example when i was saying dd can go in her own room after 6 months [they wanted me to put her in her own room, before that, when i explained that they shouldnt really go into there own room till after 6 months mum boomed well you don't want to lety some nonsense youve read in a book rule your life, to which i reaply it isnt just something ive read in a book, it the actual goverment guidelines and theres proven reserch as to why. and there faces were a picture, i know its not much but they expected me to say oh ok ill piut her in her own room now then if you say so.
there all for leaving babies to cry and they couldnt stand the fact i bf on demand.
i already do things to keep there posion at bay, like if i have any problems, i never try to talk to them about them, i always say everything is fine, i never tell them anything negative as i know they would jump on it, i had quite a difficult time with dd not gaining weight well but i couldnt tell them about it as i knew they be like giver her bottles etc or about anyproblems really such as dd is not really sitting up on her own, she can if i put her in the sit up position but doesnt do it on her own, but i just tell them everything is fine.
also i never tell them anything confidental so really they are not that close to me now so theres less to lose iykwim.

i think your alright about dont fall for the nice act, its just to real me in, as it never lasts.

lionbeast · 08/04/2008 20:20

podmog im not really up there with the other how give amazing advice on this thread, just weanted to say i can't belieive your mum did this, i really feel for you.
shes sounds like a cowbag like my mum

lionbeast · 08/04/2008 20:37

hi mimizan im here

lionbeast · 08/04/2008 20:42

mimizan, you asked how could she be so wicked to me. i truely do not know, that is the one thing that i just can't understand, i wish she would tell me. but if i had to guess id say it was somethiung to do with how she felt about herself and it made her feel better by putting me down, somehow.

you whay though, i already feel better for posting this all over the world wide web, its strangly liberating !

ally90 · 08/04/2008 21:21

Podmog - don't let her back into your house. I'm guessing this is regressing you back to your childhood and how she treated you?

Okay...so you are now the adult, you decide what goes on in your home and who comes in. Take back the control. What can she do? If you lock the doors? Get caller id? Don't respond to emails? Don't respond to letters? She cannot get to you anymore. She cannot hurt you anymore unless you give her opportunity to do so. You are the ADULT. She cannot hit your children if you don't allow her near them...and you can also protect yourself!

Think how things have changed...

a) You've grown physically
b) You depend on yourself to get food
c) you have your own home
d) You don't need her anymore!

The only thing that holds you to her is her old role as your bullying (I'm guessing here) mother.

You can break free of her, what is the worst she can do? And what can you do to alliveate anything she choses to try? This is not an impossible situation, its difficult...we are all here to help you find ways out...your not alone, we all believe you...you have options open to you that were not there as a child. Use those options!!

ally90 · 08/04/2008 21:28

Lionbeast...my mother bullied me as I guess from things she said she saw me as being like her abusive mother.

Its something to be aware of...I sometimes see really bullying children as being just like my sister and act accordingly ie shout at them...and feel like physically harming them never have (as I have self restraint) but its something I have to work on not to see any badly behaved child as my sister, afterall they are not the same person...adn should be treated as the individual they are. Likewise as parents we can see elements of our family members in our dd and ds's and can act out old patterns of behaving.

Got to go now...been on mn far too long, going boz eyed...

hi to mimizan when you finish reading this thread (you may be sometime.........................)

MorocconOil · 08/04/2008 21:46

Hi lionbeast. Took a while to find you as I've been reading the thread from the start. I only got to page 4 before I went back to look for you.

You are so right. There are some fantastically insightful people on this thread, and they have put into words feelings that have been building up inside me for so long.

I have to admit to crying especially in response to those posts referring to fears about how they are parenting their own DC. I have feelings of rage and frustration towards my DC and assumed they were normal, but now wonder whether they are the result of me being parented toxically?

I agree it is liberating and really like a lightbulb moment of awareness.

MorocconOil · 08/04/2008 21:51

Hi Ally
Will be a while as I'm going back to page 4 to carry on reading. This is so enlightening, but also saddening as I realise I did really have an unhappy childhood. I'm so desperate not to repeat it for my own DC.

gloriana · 08/04/2008 23:37

Just wanted to say that posting my anger about DCs projects seems to have unblocked something....today I managed to help both DSs do their projects and there was only a tiny bit of shouting at the beginning (when neither of them would sit at the table).

Thanks for the advice though and I will definitely think through mum and dad's attitude towards school work.

Thinking of you all and hoping you are OK. xxx

MorocconOil · 08/04/2008 23:45

Wow, just finished reading the thread, and have to admit to skimming alot of it. It's given me so much to think about, and there were so many things I can relate to.

Some of your stories are heartbreaking, but what struck me is that nobody sounds like a victim, and you are all so articulate.

I'm going to bed now and hope to sleep, although there's so much sloshing around in my head.

Hope to come back with my story when I am ready.

ally90 · 09/04/2008 08:32

Glad you are finding it so helpful Mimizan... and hopefully lots of things will start slotting into place with you now you have had your 'realisation', however this can also be a very emotional time for people...if you are not ready to post about your childhood (which of course is your choice), you can always jot down your feelings of the day and maybe put down any memories surfacing...you don't have to go the whole hog to get support

Gloriana...perhaps consolidate your achievement...pat on back...reparent yourself, tell yourself 'well done'...its what I do when I do something well with dd or do something good myself...you use the 'adult' side of you to nurture yourself...if that makes sense...then you gradually start over riding your critical parent side of your personality...I'm not making much sense am I! ah well, only 8.30 in morning! Works for me anyway...

maisemor · 09/04/2008 09:24

ARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I AM SO ANGRY today!!! Yes I am shouting, because I need to get this anger out and not let this bring me down.

I reluctantly spoke with my little sister last night (she always moans about everything so I tend to keep her at arms lenght). After all the usual moaning about her ex, her children, her flat she is selling, etc. etc. she finally says I don't know whether you want to know or not which means I have no choice but to ask what it is about and yes you probably guessed it, it is my parents or rather my mother.

My mother has apparently been admitted to hospital, and been diagnosed with a blood clot (sp?) (that they can't locate) and heart trouble of some kind. She can barely walk, she is out breath just talking on the phone. The doctors appearently said that she is lucky that they found out about it so early. Her liver and kidney are both fine (amazing considering how much she drinks at night).

They have told my little sister and my big sister, but not me!!!! My little sister felt the need to say yes but we call them!!!

I am so angry because I see it yet again as they have absolutely no respect for me as a person or a daughter, and there is no love for me what so ever on their side.

Oh the drama of it all!!

I am not going to back down. I will not back down until I get my apology. What they did and said was horrible and they are lucky that I will forgive them if I just get an apology and acceptance of what they did was wrong (I am after all not asking them to eat live bugs or swim in a pool of poisenous snakes .......... although must admit I am sorely tempted at times ).

MorocconOil · 09/04/2008 09:33

You are so right about the emotional time. It has been slowly dawning on me over the last year that my family are very toxic. Until yesterday I did not have that word to describe the pattern of malfunctioning we are in, but now it's there everything seems so much clearer.

I have been slowly realising I need to take action to break this destructive pattern as the toxicity(is that a word?) is creeping into my own family and threatening to wreck that. DD is almost 3 and a very perceptive little girl and recently she has been asking me regularly'are you sad Mummy, or are you cross, or are you happy?' I kind of thought this was normal, but reading this thread and some of the things others have said I think it's an indication she's picking up on my negative and probably depressed feelings.

Lionbeast directed me to this thread yesterday and it must have been a coincidence, but talk about timing. DH is away for 2 days so I'm on my own with the 3 DC. DS1 age 8 was in a funny mood after school, and had a fit of hysteria.(He's never done this before). So that he wouldn't hurt anyone or break things I got him to punch a pillow. He then slumped down in the corner of the room and said he was useless, no good at anything and that everyone hated him. I hugged and hugged him and said we all love him so much. Some of it could be for attention but he should not be feeling like this and I know my behaviour is hurting him. I absolutely have to alter this destructive pattern.

Overnight lots of memories, events and conversations have come flooding into my head, some recent and somefar, far back. Recent ones include the way my family are particularly critical of DS1. I feel so angry writing this, as I suspect they all label him difficult. I know they have treated him unfairly. Perhaps it is transference of their feelings about me???? Or maybe just another way to put me down. 'you've been crap at everything else so why would you be agood parent?'

There is so much I need to write down, this is only the start.

Anyway must go and get DD her breakfast.

Thanks for reading

gloriana · 09/04/2008 13:54

Maisemor - you are in absolutely the right place to be releasing your anger! I can totally understand how you feel and that what your family have done is really very hurtful to you. There is no logical explanation for why they have excluded you at a time of crisis for the family. Have you previously asked them to minimise contact with you?

On the other side, I'm sure you've realised that your mum is ill and that her and your dad have a lot on their plate right now. It may be better to address this when they are both feeling better - what do you think?

In the mean time, that hurt and rage and anger must be released so please keep coming on here and shouting at us () and any other anger-relieving measures - exercise, punching pillows (as mentioned by mimizan!). Anything to channel the anger so that it is not bottled up and fuel for depression. You have the power to lessen the hurt.

Mimizan - you have taken the first step in realising that you have toxic family and hopefully the very wise people on this thread can advise you. On your DS1, is there anything he does that he is good at? That he outshines your DD at? Building his confidence will take a lot of praise from you and your DH, but also it would be great if he attended a club where maybe he could shine outside of the home... maybe something that none of you do so that you can praise him for starting something new to the family? I felt really sad when I read that your family are critical of him and hope that they don't say anything in front of him?

maisemor · 09/04/2008 16:55

Gloriana I have not spoken to my parents for almost 2 years now.

My mother loves to play the martyr, she does not want anybody helps but she wants everyone to know that she does get any help and that she is on death's door.

Even when I was their own private doormat, they did not tell me about her being in hospital until a month after. Why should we have told you they said, nothing you could have done but worry!!!!

MorocconOil · 09/04/2008 18:28

Gloriana- my DS is graet at many things and we heap the praise on him. I am so aware of rarely being praised as a child so ensure that all my DC are given lots of it. He is in a music group, and goes to cubs. He's a great swimmer and has just been elected to the school council. I think I speak to him negatively and that's where the low confidence comes from. At least I am aware now where this negative voice comes from and I am trying to speak to my DC differently. Someone on the thread mentioned giving eye contact more, and I think I have failed to do this in the past. I will try harder now.

Unfortunately members of my family have hinted my DSs are aggressive, and their DC need to be 'protected' from DS1. What they fail to see is their own DSs are the same(if not worse) and many other small boys are like that. Friends and teachers have told me that my boys are gorgeous. My family just can't see it

Today has been a weird one. I have had a few outbursts of tears when memories have flooded back and I am viewing how things were from a 'toxic' perspective. Although upsetting and anger provoking I feel a kind of peace washing over me. I can feel myself beginning to stop caring what my toxic family think of me or my DC , and a realisation that I will never get their approval or acceptance so why keep trying. I want to focus my energy on my beautiful DC and my lovely DH.

Maisemor- I am sorry to hear you are feeling so hurt today. I wish I could offer some words of wisdom. Perhaps when I am not feeling so Arrrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh myself. But keep shouting on here. Gloriana is right that you need to release it and not internalise it any longer.

roseability · 09/04/2008 20:24

Just read 'Toxic Parents', would thoroughly recommend it. I have also taken the step of telling my DH's family (through my DH) exactly what has gone on in my family over the years. They are my family now and I don't want to pretend anymore. You know the kind of thing where people ask you how your family is and you feel you have to be polite and say 'very well thanks' when you what you want to say is 'they are a bunch of fg losers/psychos and they make my life hell!'

BlaDeBla · 09/04/2008 21:21

I still haven't dared to read 'toxic parents'. I'm re-reading 'families and how to survive them' after nearly 25 years.

I get on fine with my mum. Her 'only' crime is to have stayed with my dad, who is a brute. She is now being eaten by alzeimers, which is unbearably sad. We are living close to my mum's brother and various other relations. What a bunch of nutters they are.

I have asked my gp if I can see a therapist. My life just feels so bloody crap at the moment and I seem to have lost any sense of self in the abyss of my barmy relations. It's hard when to feel like such an outsider, and I feel as though I risk making myself sound totally off-beam if I talk about it.

MorocconOil · 09/04/2008 22:01

rose- Yes I know what you mean. MIL always asks politely and I have to go.'Oh they're fine. Not really seen much of them lately'(for some reason),

Definitely going to read 'Toxic Parents'.

BlaDeBla- Is your GP referring you? If it's hard to talk about it, you may find just jotting stuff down helps for the time being.

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