"But we took you to stately homes" part 3

[oneplusone]

Sorry for starting part 3 if it has already been started but i logged on just now and found the previous thread has reached 1000 posts. And my title is not very inspiring, Ally90, please help!

ally- I remember thinking that advice was good when you wrote it before...then I forgot to use it .

Would like to stop snapping at ds when he stresses me out. He can be very anxious and very 'wilful'and constantly whining atm.... but that's a 3 year old for you and Id rather he have a mind of his own of course (uhm perhaps without the whinin bit).

Thats definately what he doesnt like...when mummy gets cross. A flurry of 'Im sorry mummy....normally enuses'

Hmmm the rest I guess is more me imposing my thoughts ( you clever gal ally). I.e Im not playing with him enough, too much cbeebies, too much shrek, too much crap food etc.

I know I get cross because my stress levels are sky high and, the fact is 'He' doesnt stress me out (realisation today, whilst trying to get two dcs into the registry office in town.). 'I' stress me out. I sweat the small stuff.

Because Does it really matter that dd is crying in the pram atm....? Or that ds asks for a poo in the registry office at the very same time? Not unless 'I' think of it as insurmountably stressful.

I do need to step back instead and lighten up.... because of course dd 'will' settle. And provided ds can hold it (for 5 mor mins) we 'will' get to the loo....and if he doesnt?? He will get to hear all about it on his 18th.

So if I can try and relax a bit more about going back to being a mum with large learning curve ahead (bit thats stressing me I think) I will definately cut down on my snappiness/crossness with ds.

Will try.

With regard to the boundaries for mil. Tis so subtle ally not sure how I could word it. I think the boundaries have to be me cutting time with nanna down. I also desperately need to get a social network in place. For my own sake but also for ds. Because deep down I know all the above is par for the course and normal. would help to have some RL mums to remind myself of this fact.

Maisemor- Great post. I do have to check in on my negativity. You are absolutely spot on with this. Very negative parents. Helps to remind myself of this fact.

I do try and see the positives of ds's relationship/spending time with nanna usually...I think . Then... she will do something and I will dwell on it and get all .
I need REALLY strong boundaries with her but I feel I am a bit worn down with it all atm. And dont have the strength. {lus questioning myself.

With nursery, Yes I do see some positives but I do struggle with it, but again Im not sure how much I impose my own feelings about nursery onto ds. (I hated nursery as a child). Ds is not and never has been a huge fan so it makes it hard. But he is getting older so needs the social aspect and dd is likley to be a different child altogether.
Yes he does have some good friends and they shout bye bye to him through the window...ahhhh
Also.... I do like the freedom from MIL those two days he has at nursery have always given me. I walk him there...no hastle...no tension.... AND
'they' get him ready for me when I collect him (yay).

ps- very jelous of the wine ally...get do with a big fat glass of wine. mmmmm

Btw 'would' a 'healthy' relationship with a GP look like??? (not a sarcastic question btw)

should say- could do with a big fat glass of wine!

Will stop posting now!

Danae- 'i am usually most stressed when i'm in public and I'm convinced that everyone is looking at me and thinking what a crap mother I am'

Yep spot on- and I guess it doesnt help that I pay such little attention to my appearance (a whole other issue)- That I also look the part of a beleagered stressed out mother. And yes Imagine everyone is looking at me and thinking just that.

I was also stunned by your para- re your father- Exactly same here I think. And yes I have the issues with sex. Still do.

My father didnt comment on my body, but I remember him staring at me. It used to make me feel so uncomfortable (creeped out) and I never understood (at the time) what or why he was staring or really connected with those feelings of creepy discomfort IYKWIM. I'd smile and he looked through me.

Its only now I realise what it was about and it makes me shiver. I could never have admitted this to myself before now but I know that (even though only in his mind) boundaries were crossed.
He never allowed me to date either and once when he found a couple of male friends alone with me at our house, he went ballistic and hit me. I had to go to work with him after that every weekend so as not to be out of his sight. I was 15!

At 18 I was sat in the dark with an ex-boyfriend. Nothing was happening. We were just talking. There was a party at our house and we had gone to my bedroom to talK.
The door quietly opened and suddenly the light went on, and there was my dad just looking in at us. (ugh )

BTW have you considered writing as a profession. I am always spellbound by what you write. You are quite a talent.

Gosh this thread moves so fast I find it almost impossible to keep up.

Gloriana, i wanted to reply to you. It does seem as if we are in a very similar situation with regard to our sisters. I wrote to them both a while ago telling them how I felt when we were growing up ie that I felt very lonely, hurt at being always left out of things and angry at the way i was abused by my dad. I also pointed out to them that we were all treated very differently by our parents and that is something they need to be fully aware of.

The thing is though, although I only sent those emails a few weeks ago, I have over the last few days come to the realisation that my sisters in fact hate me. This is the only explanation that fits all their behaviour towards me over the years. But they hate me only because they have subtly been trained to do so by my parents and also not so subtly at times especially by my dad. I realise now that somewhere inside my head i have known this all along but i have been unable/unwilling to face it; to allow this painful truth into my consciousness. The situation is a bit confused however as I can see that although my sisters have been trained/brainwashed into hating/disliking me by my parents, at the same time I am sure they have some genuine feelings of affection for me as I have always tried to be a good big sister to them and over the years I have been very generous with birthday presents (but they have not been the same towards me in return), I have always helped them and guided them when they have come to me for advice or been upset about something and in general, apart from the usual, normal, typical sibling arguments, I have treated them caringly and kindly. So I'm sure they are confused by my actions towards them and the contradictory image of me portrayed by my parents. And their confusion shows in their behaviour towards me which at times seems to be caring and at other times very hurtful and callous.

I can see that instead of fostering a close and loving relationship and bond between me and my sisters, my parents actively tried to divide us and drive a wedge between us and sadly they have succeeded. We had no chance against my parents really as we of course were only children when all this manipulation was going on and we were totally unaware of how we were all being used and exploited by our parents. I realise it was totally and absolutely in my parents interests to create a divide between me and my sisters and to prevent us from talking honestly. As if i had been able to talk to my sisters about how i really felt when we were children, my parents' 'game' would have been over. They would have been exposed for what they really were and they would no longer have been able to 'use' me to act out their own issues on from their own childhoods. And as Alice Miller says, if parents have not dealt with and resolved their own childhood issues, when they become parents they are compelled, unconsciously, to use their own children to act out their own childhood issues. And unfortunately it is the eldest child who usually bears the brunt of all this.

I'm sorry if i'm not explaining myself very well, it's quite a difficult concept to explain, Alice Miller does it much better than i can, although I have only really truly understood what she is saying by experiencing it myself.

Anyway, I have come to the conclusion that after a lifetime of subtle/subliminal brainwashing by my parents to see me as the bad, nasty, rude, snappy, ungrateful, bratty child/sibling, my sisters are very unlikely to ever see me for who i really am, however much my actions and behaviour towards them belies what my parents have urged them to think and believe about me. So my only real option, for the sake of my own health and well-being is to let them go. If ever they gain some insight into themselves, their behaviour and our family and parents' behavior then i believe they will contact me themselves out of their own free will and we will be able to have a real relationship, the sort of relationship we should have had but which was denied to us by our parents who were compelled to use all of us for their own ends, albeit unconsciously.

It's strange as although it is very sad to come to this realisation, it has also brought me a sense of relief and release. Like i said i think somewhere inside my head i have known this all along but i was fighting against it as i didn't want to believe it was the truth. But i have finally been able to face up to the truth and as Alice Miller says, the truth will set you free, and I do indeed feel a sense of liberation, sad and painful though it is at the same time.

Smithfield, I am so sorry to hear of what you're going through. I have read through what the others have said and pretty much agree with all the advice given. Most of all i would say to you to trust your instincts on this matter. If what your MIL is doing doesn't feel right to you then know in your heart that it is not right. From what you have said she does seem to be using your son as a pawn to subtly manipulate and undermine you. Although my MIL did not use this particular tactic, she also was very subtle in the ways she used to upset and undermine me and my confidence making it very hard to explain to others especially DH.

As regards how to deal with it, I personally would first of all tell your DH how you feel and do your best to explain her behaviour to him (this can be hard i know but try) and, with his backing and approval, i would speak directly to MIL about her behaviour. Even if she pretends not to know what you are talking about, she will know her game is up and chances are she will stop her behaviour. This approach may not be an option for you, but this is how i dealt with my MIL and it has been effective for me. But the absolute key for me was to get DH onside, once my MIL knew DH was on my side, she caved in as she knows that if she continued her behaviour I would have made DH choose between her and me. I know i posted about all this a while ago (although i think i actually started another thread about it, will try to post you a link) and i felt it was a crunch point for my and DH's relationship. I would have called it a day on our marriage if he hadn't backed me up against his mother.

The only other option i can think of for you is to drastically cut down on the time you allow your DS to spend with your MIL. However much he might enjoy spending time with her as compared to nursery, you must do what is best for him and to my mind, spending more time at nursery is better then spending time with your MIL who is heartlessly using him and manipulating and taking advantage of his innocence to undermine and hurt you, his mummy. If you are unhappy this will also impact on both your DC's, so overall, i think you would be far better of sending him to nursery more.

DH and I spend a fortune on nursery and nannies but it is worth every penny as it means we are not dependent in any way on any family member for childcare/babysitting.

Someone posted a while ago about which Alice Miller book to read first, i would recommend 'The Truth Will Set You Free' simply because it is a lot easier to read than her other books. Also her most famous book 'The Drama of The Gifted Child' although i had to read that about 5 times over the course of a year before i felt i really understood it.

Sorry for the long post, as usual, once i start i can't stop!

Danae and Smithfield, just wanted to add my problems with sex, which exactly mirror your own. I was really inhibited and just thought the whole thing was 'wrong' really. And like you i also realise it was a result of my dad's behaviour. He used to read my diary as a teenager and then openly mock and humiliate me about things i had written in there such as having a crush on a boy etc. I think my dad had a real problem about me growing up and no longer being a child. I remember pretty much the worst indidence of abuse by him, although not sexual abuse, was soon after I had had my first period and i think now there was a connection between the particular abusive incident and me starting my periods (although of course i had no idea about this at the time). He called me some absolutely vile and shocking names and it was all completely and utterly unjustified. I think i was about 11 and really had only just discovered 'boys' and certainly didn't have a boyfriend nor had i even so much as touched let alone kissed a boy but in his twisted, psychotic mind i must have been up to all sorts hence the disgusting name calling. I think i have some sort of post traumatic stress disorder as a result of that incident, i can remember it so clearly but i find it impossible to actually talk about it and i can't even post the details on here, it is just too painful and i don't feel ready....i don't know if i ever will. I feel a sense of shame about the whole incident and yet i know it was all him and not me.

sorry, am rambling again.

sorry, me again, i just wanted to say that a really positive thing that has happened since i have been going through this process and i suppose unblocking and releasing a lot of suppressed feelings is that sex has improved no end! I feel so much less inhibited these days, in fact not inhibited at all, and I just enjoy it so much more, it is amazing. I am sure it is connected with this whole process somehow, maybe i am allowing myself to feel things more, not just emotionally but physically too.

hello again all,

smithfield, i was saddened and shocked when i read your post about you mil, and the relationship she has with your ds, remember, your the mum, and nothing anyone says, or does can ever change that, and for what its worth you sound like a lovely mum. please trust your instincts.

today i am having a ok day, i feel strangley calm, and the little ones are playing happily,
i have the number to ring my psychologist on monday and i feel i am ready to return now.

danae, i was wondering about deleting those two messages, cos i do feel quite upset by it, and would like it removed how do i do that??

my relationship with sex is well fucked up!!! dp is the only man i have ever slept with in a sober and straight mind,but i suppose considering the circumstances it isnt really surprising... to be honest i would much rather have a nice cup of tea!!!!! lol

oneplusone, i have looked on alice miller site, and am going to try to get a couple of her books from the library. think they could really help me.

to everyone else, i hope you are all ok, and enjoying your weekend....

i wonder if i will be this calm by the end of the two weeks holiday!!!!!
bye for now xx

danae, i have reread your post, and can totally relate to your disastrous relationships in your past,
i too felt/feel totally inadequate, and have slept with many men, because i felt that i "had to", so i know exactly how you feel.
i used to detach myself, so to speak from what was happening,

i sometimes dont think i felt anything at all, as if it wasnt really me, and i was watching this happen to someone else.
does that make sense?

sorry you are feeling low, i hope you are feeling better soon. xx

Message withdrawn

smithfield: I too get guilt over sending DD to nursery.
The thing is, she enjoys it!
She is very social, loves the communal stories and games. She has lots of friends who regularly visit on weekends and she gets to go to lots of parties.
She also likes spending time with me but I too have days when I think I'm crap and compare myself to other mothers who are modelling the eiffel tower out of meccano and things but my DH is terribly supportive and says "you are not crap, you love her and support her" and is very positive even when I'm beating myself up mentally.

I took DD over to her friend last weekend and we could barely prise them apart 5 hours later, she did not want to come home she was having so much fun! This is a friend she met through nursery and it is lovely to see her so happy.
I do not HAVE to work, but if I didn't I would go mad, I know I could not spend all day with a 4 year old. This is why some people are nursery nurses and I run an IT department.
Your MIL is playing on this guilt as she is obviously a deeply disturbed person who wants someone who is dependent on her whom she can dominate. A 3 year old is perfect as he does not have the critical faculties to spot her for what she is.
You have spotted it, and I also bet she picked on DS rather than DD because girls are more independent whereas boys will cling to a female adult more than girls will.
Help your DS to have a normal happy relationship with other children and limit his nanna time. 3 years old is the prime time for developing the first real friendship, encourage this, that will make you a super mum as you are helping him build social skills that will last all his life.
Soon he will be asking to play with a friend, not his nanna. Boys need boys to run around with and do 3 year old stuff.

thanks danae, i will try it now,

i saw my therapist last about 2 years ago, before i got pg with ds, and if i am honest i dont think i was ready/capable of, discussing anything back then, and i think this was quite frustrating for him, as it was a case of one step forward... 10 steps back!!
plus i am now acutely aware of how dysfunctional my family are, and now i feel different, and i suppose stronger, and ready to deal with it all.

i will let you know how i get on xx

Danae as usual you are spot on. I do absolutely think my parents are both replicating/re-enacting their own childhood dysfunctional family relationships using me. I have posted about this before in relation to my mother. To put it very simplistically I am sure she has buried feelings about being left out of things by her brothers and sisters from when she was a child (they still leave her out of things to this day and i am sure their behaviour as adults is simply a continuation of their childhood behaviour patterns). My mother therefore made sure that instead of her always being the one who was left out, that I was always left out whilst she and my two sisters always did things together.

I don't think my dad was particularly popular with his brothers and sisters, again a childhood pattern that is also present today (he has fallen out and doesn't speak to any of his siblings apart from one sister who he adores and fawns over - perhaps my youngest sister is that sister in his eyes as he fawns over my youngest sister in exactly the same way) and I'm sure he 'cast' me in the role of the unpopular and unlikeable sibling, just as he was when he was a child.

So, it has turned out exactly as Alice Miller says, unless our parents resolve their own childhood issues, it is absolutely inevitable they will unconsciously act those issues out on us, their own children.

It is the 'unconscious' part of what A.M. says that I find hard to deal with. As, if someone is acting unconsciously how can you blame them and hate them for their behaviour? I suppose though, i am moving more and more away from hating my parents and towards just feeling indifferent towards them. I have 'felt' and released so much of my anger and hatred towards them throughout this process.

matildax, you are right in that YOU have to be ready to deal with this stuff and until you are no therapist can really help you and when you are ready you can almost work things out for yourself with your therapist simply listening and supporting you. As Alice Miller puts it the therapist is an enlightened witness ie one who can really hear what you are saying and who truly understands the nature and effects of dysfunctional family relationships.

I'm glad you are going to get hold of some of AM's books, I started off buying one and now I think I have them all!

Danae, my dad also never praised me to my face about work/study achievments etc, usually he denigrated or stayed silent about anything i did, but i would also find out that he used to show off about me to all and sundry. What utter psychos they are!

Danae - 'I don't know why now and what i can do to resolve all that grief. It just sloshes around uselessly'

Grief is a very powerful healing process and I can only think that for you to come to some sort of resolution about 'young Danae' then you will have to let it take it's course ie sadness, anger and over time, acceptance. I think it's fantastic that you have this sort of insight into your behaviour as a young woman and surely the fact that you have recognised these actions/feelings as the result of the programming of your parents (both dad with his inappropriateness and mum with her version of femininity) will help you to accept that young Danae didn't know any of this but you now do. You are also equipped with the tools to deal with this grief and take it to it's conclusion.

You have made me really think about my relationship with my own father as I also feel uncomfortable and 'well icky' - love that - about sex. I remember being obsessed with the fact that my dad was going to abuse me and would be on tenterhooks every time I was left alone with him. He never did but I wonder why this was constantly in my head. He also HATED it when I started my periods and if there was ever any evidence of it in our house, he would flip. Will have to think on this some more. He also has a pathological mistrust of women (from his own childhood) and although has been very proud of my achievements, I think I must have sensed the fact that his beloved little girl had turned into one of those deceitful women.

With my mother, I think she deliberately fostered a negative view of my body and myself. I can completely relate to the description: 'I had no self, no boundaries, I had never been allowed to exercise choice in anything, not the clothes I wore, the food I ate, nothing, I was just absence, invisible, a nothingness' (thank you again Danae!). She would always want to be with me if I tried bras on etc and made me feel ridiculous if I asked for privacy. I was also programmed to give men whatever they wanted - I remember as a teenager a sixty yr old man buying me a pint of cider in the pub and me giving him a snog for his trouble. Was I worth that little that he could be intimate with me for a pint?

One+One - after thinking about my relationship with my sisters I'm drawn back to something that my therapist pointed out to me about how my parents (my mother particularly) raised me above my siblings so that I was almost a semi-parent to them. I allowed this because I got power over them, and my mum then managed to project the rebelling against authority on to me. My sisters must have felt that by hating me, they were striking out against mum and dad. This then allowed mum to share an almost sisterly relationship with them at the expense of me.

My middle sister was always the one that 'was' my mum - she was born blonde for a start which helped and then she took on the role of my mother. She would choose dad's ties for him in the morning and even now, she still buys dad's Xmas and Bday presents from him to mum. I think I must have been cast in the role of my dad - I was always told that I was just like him by my mother. Maybe this is why I'm confused about what my role is

Thank you for the recommendations on Alice Miller. I will be heading for Amazon in a sec!

Smithfield - I was really shocked to hear about your DS and MIL. I would just echo what has been said on here already: if you are not happy with your childcare in any way, you must change it. Even if it is MIL. It is bad for you to have this to worry about and therefore your DS will pick up that mummy is not happy. I have had nannies that I've not been happy with (whilst I was working) and a large portion of my time and energy was devoted to whether I was deranged or whether it was her. This meant my work suffered and I suffered and I was so much happier when I took action (fired the nanny). I hope everything works out for you.

Gloriana- 'He also HATED it when I started my periods and if there was ever any evidence of it in our house, he would flip'

My goodness there seems to be a theme here.

Yes my mum had to have 'words' with me about leaving 'evidence' that I'd started my periods...., because 'It upsets your father'

Thanks all of you for your support re situation with MIL. I have been feeling unease about this for so long and so much so that as I said, I did take action a while back by reducing ds's time from 4 days to 2.

I did think that I would not have to worry about it art all whilst on mat leave but as I say, whilst vulnerable she has engineered things to have those two days back. This is how she manipulates.

Oneplusone I dont think the manipulation/undermining is aimed at me, the fact she does manipulate/undermine me is a by product of her deep seated need to have control over ds (you are spot on with this Migsie thankyou).

Her manipulation of me is dressed up as niceness. So I fell into the trap in the first place because I had a void to be filled. We all know about that.

She offered to take ds 4 days and then before I knew it ds was at a nursery for 1 day but close to where 'she' lived and she took to ringing me on that day each week without fail saying 'shall 'I' pick him up for you??'.

And on the days she did have him she would say ' Now dont you worry about breakfast 'I' will give him breakfast.

A small thing, a kind gesture. At first I thought great. Then one day when I happened to mention 'in passing' stopping ds's milk in the mornings, she snapped at me about it.

At that point I realised she thought 'she' was in charge not me.

So I began saying 'no' to things. Taking back control. Began picking him up from nursery, whatever time it was. began giving him his breakfast at home. (Although I then discovered she was giving him a second breakfast with her.)

Then came the swimming incident and that was enough for me to find an alternative nursery close to home, for two days a week instead of one. I also arranged to work from home one day a week, so she had him only two.

SInce going on mat leave and having ds back with me I made sure we had activities set up so she couldnt intrude/insist on having him. Although she still tried her damndest!

What makes me really uncomfortable is when ds says something like 'mummy I want to sit on your lap' and she immediately says 'come here and sit on nannas lap' But the look of disapointment when he comes to me. THAT makes me feel so uncomfortable.

Because this is NOT a competition and it is unfair to make me or ds feel it is.

She is the mother of two boys and I feel this making them dependant on her is a definate theme. It works more on dh's brother though I think. And as I met Dh overseas I always wonder if subconciously he did feel smothered by her.

I dont think she is a particularly nasty person. Just wanting to fulfil a need in her through my ds, and not caring wether that need has a cost to 'my' relationship with ds.

Sorry really need to stop banging on about this now...but does help to get thoughts out.

SMithfield,
Your long post about your MIL just makes me remember how it was for me. Mine is also not openly rude, I mean she does some things that are shocking when you analyse them and write them down on here (like snatching DD away from me at the birth) BUT everything is always done with a beautiful smile on her face. I really thought I had the problem, and that I was the control freak, but it wasnT me, it was her. THis is also your situation. First of all, its <span class="italic">your</span> baby, not your MILs. Secondly, your feelings must be validated; your feelings are your feelings- if she is so dense or thick or lacking in empathy that she cant tell when a mother is feeling uncomfortable about someone whisking off their own child, then she needs a reality check. THirdly, all this aside, it is totally normal, as his mother, to feel protective- when our babies are young I believe its biological for us to become wary of people who are obviously not on our side. Jealous, toxic MILs are obviously not on our side and our bodies and minds know this- you have just had a baby to so you are hyper-sensitive to these dangerous people. I think dangerous is an appropriate word because I nearly lost my mind because of my MILs snidey behavior- it was <span class="italic">so</span> subtle and her absolute <strong>hosility</strong> towards me was completely hidden under a veneer of "kindness". But she wasnT kind, she was hostile and jealous and became suffocatingly helpful to the point that I was ready to walk out of my marriage by running away with DD back to my own country.
Since standing up to her, mine and DHs relationship has gone from strengh to strengh. Her drip drip of poison is not in the background anymore and even DH can feel it. So I think you are well within your rights to <span class="italic">not</span> let your DS visit nana if it makes you uncomfortable. SO what if you are accused of being protective. You donT need anyones approval, least of all hers, and you donT need to justify your decisions regarding your children to anyone. You have made a decision. End of. Your son doesnt need to be whisked away to grandmas, or if he does, it needs to be at times set by you, that are convenient for you etc etc. These idiots needs BOUNDARIES. What I canT stand abotu your MIL and mine is that she honestly believes that she and you are equal with regard to your children. Mine (when I used to see her regularly) was honestly suprised when my baby quite clearly wanted her mother, rather than her .

EVen the words you use "whisk away" "swoop" aptly describe my own MIL, and the fact she needs total dependance. They have a sad need to be needed, which is generally a human need and in mosty cases fine, but for these women - they define themselves by being indidpensable. And the truth is they are very dispensible and even more so when they behave like this. AFter gettin my MIL to butt out, the fog lifted, life seemed easier and brighter, and I haven`T looked back

Sorry, (skimming today, as usual- we are househunting in an hour )
Smithfield, interesting that you say you met your DH overseas. Mine was studying in the UK when I met　 him and I was studying for my masters. I wonder if he asked me to marry him because I represented a kind of freedom to him, and possibly a buffer between him and his stifling Japanese family.
I think hes secretly happy that he can "blame" his foreign wife when I say I wont comply with all the family duties or hierarchies. These days I sometimes offer to be with his family, because I donT feel constrained anymore, and DH says that heD prefer to spend that time with DD and me, just the three of us. This makes me smile inside because when I arrived here, his whole life was wrapped up in meeting his parents expectations and chasing up after the social engagements that they would arrange.
I think its absolutely true what you say about feeling that our MILS filled the gap in a way, the motherly figure that was lacking, but weVe started to move on now. Were doing the hard work on our characters, to improve ourselves, and we`Ve realised that our MILS are toxic. Its perfectly fine to acknowledge that we were wrong about them, completely mistaken, and that we can now take back the control and power we gave to them through a mistaken sense of love or obligation.

Danae, your posts were fascintating as usual. Thank you for the description of how you felt as a 19 year old, kind of hollowed out by your mother. Mine did pretty much the same, but luckily for me (I suppose) she worked very full-time. When I saw her she was incredibly abusive. AS I said previously, I think she despised me because I couldnT meet her needs- her need to be cared for by a motherly figure. Not <span class="italic">only</span> could I not meet her needs when she was stressed and tired from work, but on top of that, I had my <span class="italic">own</span> needs- I needed nurturance and patience and love and guidance. This was <span class="italic">intolerable</span> to her, and she despised me for it...BUT... because she worked so much, although I was neglected too, I had this kind of space to become someone. A very melancholic, serious child, until I became a teenager and started drinking to hide the pain. So Danae, your experience makes me feel so, I dont know, sad, I suppose- to be as insightful as you are after all youVe gone through is because you have been given a gift, really, of wisdom. And if you could read your own posts on here you would see that you are not a "nothing" person, but that you are full of insight and wisdom and intelligence that make you the person you are. THat is the same for everyone who posts, I think. You can really sense the individual personality of each person who contributes--so the bastards havent won, have they?! They haven`t beaten us yet..

Hi, all, haven't read the recent posts, have been playing out in the snow with the DC's . Will try and catch up later, DC's are now off for 2 weeks hols, have a feeling I won't get a minute to read/post at all for a while

Just wanted to get some thoughts out re my sisters. As with all my other 'realisations', now that i have realised that my sisters are in fact as toxic to me as my parents, I can't beleive I just couldn't see it before. I kept thinking i would be devastated if I didn't have some sort of contact with them and that my DC's would miss out hugely by not knowing their cousins/aunties and that I would also miss out on something by not having a relationship with my sisters.

But I realise now that although my DC's will miss out on their cousins/aunties, having a happy and healthy mummy will more than make up for that loss.

I can see now that I have always felt slightly uncomfortable being around my sisters in that they made me feel uncomfortable. I always felt they looked down on me, that they were laughing at me inside, that they were mocking me, that they had no respect for and basically disliked me. Unfortunately I realise they don't even know me. The person they think they know is the person I had to become in order to survive my childhood. I had to become a person who acted tough, who acted like she didn't care that her parents abused/neglected/mistreated her, who wore a mask of anger and belligerence to hide the pain and lonliness inside and that is the person they know. Probably sometimes the real me showed through in my behaviour towards them but this wasn't enough to enable them to see through the mask i wore coupled with my parents's portrayal of me as the one they should all hate and dislike. Of course my parents never accepted any blame/responsibility for the way they made me behave due to their abuse/neglect and left all the fault to lie with me and so that is how my sisters saw me, as totally to blame, whilst my parents were the innocent victims with the misfortune to have an ungrateful brat for a daughter. I was never allowed to talk about my parents' abuse and so my sisters just thought I simply was an angry, snappy person, I'm sure it never crossed their minds that I might have a very good reason for acting the way i did. I can't blame them for that, we were all only children and stood no chance against the lies and manipulation of our parents.

I do now feel completely at ease with the fact that I have to let go of my sisters as being around them is not healthy for me and I feel no sense of loss or regret, they never were the sisters I wanted or hoped for, they were simply my parents in another form. The feeling I always had as a child of always feeling like the odd one out, not part of or belonging to the family makes so much sense, I never was and never will be part of that family, my parents and sisters are all one and the same person and I am entirely seperate from them. And whilst once I felt very upset and sad at this knowledge, I now feel so glad that I am seperate, that I can see them for what they are and see myself for who I really am and because of that ensure that my DC's have a very different childhood to my own.

My counsellor said that all this time spent on pondering and reading and processing all these thoughts and emotions right now were an investment into mine and my DC's and DH's future and I think she is so right. If I wasn't doing all this now I dread to think how i might have gone on to treat my DC's as time went on. There has been such a change already especially in my relationship with DD which I have to confess was pretty awful not so long ago. The terrible feelings of rage i used to have towards her have all but disappeared, I have so much more empathy, compassion and feeling towards her and I know she feels the difference too although of course she has no idea what is behind the change in our relationship.

It is as if, to use a phrase I used in a previous post, the internal reality of my relationship with her now matches the external picture ie before i used to have to 'pretend' a lot with her, almost to the point where i was actually pretending to love her when i didn't always feel it inside. But now i'm not pretending, i do feel it inside and that alone has made this whole painful journey worthwhile.

I feel I have completely 'detached' myself from my sisters and I can now see them and our relationship objectively and see them for who they really are. I think I do still care about them, I don't feel the sense of detachment is a sense of indifference towards them, it just enables me to see them without my emotions clouding my judgment. I think all this has been bubbling under the surface of my consciousness recently as I have felt very tired and in a bit of a fog whereas now I feel I have clarity again (still feel tired but am not sleeping well so am sure that's why). Also my eczema flared up again a bit last week and that has become a sign to me now that something is about to break into my consciousness. I am completely and utterly amazed at how close the connection is between mind and body in this whole matter.

Sorry, am rambling again, am going to go now and cook sunday lunch . x