How likely that he has innocent intentions?

[Catacendre]

A man is in a very long-term relationship of more than 15 years, though both live hours apart. Engaged for over 7 years, at her request, no immediate plans for marriage from him for the foreseeable, although his fiancee is very keen to move the relationship on. He is mid-40s, his fiancee much older, the woman below is a fair bit younger, which may make a difference, although out of the three, his fiancee is the most conventionally attractive.

He has worked with a woman for a few years, both get on very well and when she gets a new job they start meeting up every few months, essentially when their busy lives allow for it. They live reasonably close, but not close enough for a chance meeting, so some effort does go into meeting up. She soon confesses that she is in love with him and offers to leave him to it.

After a few months, for work reasons, they get back in touch, initiated by her. He is in a vulnerable place due to work and shares with her just how generally down he feels. She initiates the next meeting and he agrees to see her.

My question is this:
Is there ever an innocent reason to meet up as friends between the two? The question of how she now feels about him has never been spoken about again, so his assumption must be that she still feels the same.

Neither come across as predatory. But I wonder whether mid-life and a vulnerable position in his work, and therefore a large part of his life, make him more prone to take risks, especially as he does not seem to want to commit in his existing relationship.

I also wonder why he has agreed to meet up for (non-alcoholic) drinks with a woman who has crossed a boundary like that.

My thoughts in no particular order assuming you're the fiancée:

What was an attractive proposition when he was early 30's dating a 45 year old woman (very Mrs Robinsonesque) is a very different situation to being a 45 year old man dating a 60 year old woman.(see numerous threads on here about age gaps as the senior party enters older age)

Him being 45 is not middle-aged these days. Some men are just starting to have their first children around that age and have at least 20 more years work ahead of them.

Seeing each other most weekends will only scratch the surface of what it's like to have a nitty gritty day to day relationship with each other as evidenced by his comments after the enforced lock down co-habition experiment.

The comments about seeing how living together will go in future must be a joke. He didn't like it the first time, he's not going to have a sudden change of heart when his parents die (when he's 70 and you're 85?)

Your comments regarding appearance are very telling. Do not underestimate the attractiveness of youthfulness even if it comes packaged in a size 18 dress size, which in your opinion should detract from her appeal to him (you're wrong by the way).

Another woman has declared she loves him. She didn't get there without some encouragement from him along the way that there was more to their friendship or implications that "if he were single..." He should have shut that down immediately and realised that continuing meet ups was damaging to her if he is giving false hope of him reciprocating her feelings and very disrespectful to his fiancée.

The first two paragraphs, yes, that is a concern. One person will be looking at retirement soon and have a lot more time on her hands while he will still be working many years and long hours. There will be an imbalance which could lead to resentment.

I think what he didn't like were all little things that could become bigger over time. Her not being able to drive, him doing more of the housework because she, too, is busy working and has other commitments.

I keep reading here that men don't find big women attractive, so I must assume that the other woman is objectively far less attractive as an obese woman. With her as a single mother, who would not fit into his life, I don't see the attraction, which has me wondering whether he is just being friendly. Not wanting children was more the fiancees choice than his, and I wonder whether there is a part of him that regrets that.

Another woman has declared she loves him. She didn't get there without some encouragement from him along the way that there was more to their friendship or implications that "if he were single..."
There was friendly banter, but contact was typically initiated by her, in a similar way to his fiancee always having to make the first step to arrange anything. I do believe that he is rather lazy in that regard, generally speaking, and that he lets people come to him rather than the other way around. There is a lot of inertia, same reason he hasn't left his job for a better one yet.

I believe I have already agreed he wouldn't be an objectively good choice for either woman, but there isn't always reason to how we react emotionally. That, and investment, the prospect of throwing so many years away.

I don't think either of the 3 are a great catch. All have big flaws, big things which would make your average mumsnetter run a mile. But for every pot a lid, right?

As for the poster who asked why I keep who I am to myself - answers on here are heavily skewed, depending on perceptions. I need answers to take into account all possible sides before I will, eventually, confront the situation. So if you think I am the bloke, please also answer with what you'd say to him, it might help me make my argument better.

And no, I'm not writing a story 🙄

He’ll never marry the fiancée, that’s abundantly clear. Hope the poor woman comes to her senses.

Who ever you are in this situation , why don't you ask this guy why he's meeting this other woman? I'm guessing it's because you are afraid of the answer

That I am, yes.

The man only got "engaged" to make his fiancee happy, but he has no intention of ever marrying her.

I think either way you need to ask him . I'm going to guess that you are the fiance. You are together 15 years , just ask him straight out and his answer will tell you all you need to know. Your only in your 60s , you sound like an intelligent woman , I'm guessing you are slimmer than the other woman and probably take care of yourself. You'd find another man , someone who actually wants you. 15 years of this half arsed relationship must be soul destroying for you. Don't waste any more of your time on it.

Honestly, op, get real.
They’ve spent 15 years living several hours apart from each other; he had no intention of any further commitment.
The notion of waiting until both sets of parents are dead to marry and move in together is farcical.
Is it you? How did you fall for this??

The older woman is a space filler until he finds someone he really wants to settle down and commit to. The excuses are just a way to continue stringing her along. What a nonsense story about waiting for parents to die. Good grieve!

I don't know why everyone thinks you're the partner, I would have said you are the younger woman. The derogatory way you speak about her, it would seem your self esteem is on the floor which is the only justification I can think of that a young woman with children would ever entertain a loser like this.

If I'm right then bare in mind that you cannot believe a thing that he tells you about his partner. They are engaged because she wanted it, they live apart and he has no plans to progress the relationship but they are completely immeshed? He lived with her in lockdown and tells you he was relieved to leave? If all is coming from his mouth then I would run a mile because 1. Its very unlikely to be true, he is downplaying their 15 relationship. I've had roommates I've been more "immeshed" with after a year than this apparent couple and 2. Even if it is true, he sounds appalling, basically dangling a carrot to her for years but never giving her proper commitment.

Bluntly, he is not a nice person to be doing this. Potential affair partner or long suffering partner, get away from him now.

I think what I am most afraid of is discovering that this person, that I have now known for many years and have always thought of highly, could actually turn out to be a bit of an arse.

Self-serving at times, yes, and an absolute people pleaser who finds it hard to say no or get into conflict. But intentionally deceptive and potentially manipulative? People love him wherever he goes, though he rarely forms deeper relationships with people, which is why it is so astonishing that he has shared what I feel are quite emotionally intimate thoughts with that woman. He would not have shared the same things with most of his friends, let alone other work colleagues who he's known for longer than her.

On the other hand I simply cannot see a good reason for them to meet up. It would be the first time they saw each other since she told him how she really felt about him, although they shared a telephone conversation and a few messages in between. Yet he agreed to meet her. How can I possibly have respect for a man who could deceive his partner and potentially start an affair? And if it was all innocent, how could he possibly go out with her without knowing her intentions? Or, if he assumes that she is still in love with him, is this not actually cruel? Do men not think that way or am I simply reluctant to see him in this new and unfavourable light?

I don't understand why you don't see that he is a bit of an arse regardless of which woman you are.

This…
How do you know people love him wherever he goes, op?!
I presume he told you this?
Sounding more of an arse/dick by the minute.

No, he is very well regarded and highly thought of with friends and casual acquaintances, the vast majority of whom are male. Having a woman, and one who has shown inappropriate interest in him, as a new friend he meets up with 1:1 is new.

But people, for want of a better word, love him, as do I. He is friendly, charming, has a great sense of humour, is helpful and thoughtful and usually has his head screwed on. Everyone I know speaks highly of him.

This whole situation though makes me see him in a different light and perhaps it is only now that I have managed to lose the rose tinted spectacles and connect a few dots.

So he is meeting up with a woman who has said she has feelings for him, why is he leading her on and why is he not considering his partners feelings?

60 is not too old to meet someone, you could meet someone who wants to commit and have a proper relationship

Let's face it, at 60, chances of meeting someone decent are slim. Especially when you take into account it won't be 60, it'll be older than that by the time building oneself up from the loss of that long a relationship has occurred. It's nice that you want to build his fiancee up, but I am being realistic here.

But what @JamieFrasersfurrysporran said is my question precisely. Are there any men here who can shed a light?

How did Woman A find out about Woman B?

Let's face it, at 60, chances of meeting someone decent are slim.

Yes but she hasn't got anyone decent now, has she.

Also why so desperate to meet someone anyway? She sounds perfectly capable.

I think meeting up as friends can be innocent, however, in this case the female friend has already made her feelings of being in love clear, and that changes things. He has also made it clear he is feeling vulnerable, and she is pushing the meetings. To me, it reads as though she has feelings for him and is using his vulnerability to take advantage a little in the hope of them getting together.

Unfortunately, I don't see that the existing relationship has longevity. If you are the fiancee in this situation, I really think you should consider ending the relationship before the finances become entwined.
Long distance for 15 years shows a lack of will and commitment to pursue a meaningful relationship. Point proved by living together in lockdown not going well.

When you are in love with someone, you should want to be with them, should want to share all of your life with them. This man only wants that part-time.

Why would he share vulnerability with a woman who he knows is in love with him?

Attention and ego stroking. Being paid compliments can be very addictive.

Addictive is one thing. He can take the sodding compliments if he likes. But how likely is he to try and take it further than a few compliments?

What is it with recent posters coming onto MUMSnet to get male opinions?!

OP - he sounds like a superficially charming, weak-minded character.

Move on.

It’s not innocent and you know it, even if you refuse to admit it to yourself.