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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Why do women have affairs with men with young children

999 replies

Thegreenpotter · 19/08/2023 22:52

As the title says. Why?

Do they have no concept of the toll that having young children can take on a relationship?

How can they feel ok playing a part in breaking up a family?

This is not to suggest the blame lies with the other women, far from. Just more a curiosity as to why and how they can do so from a moral perspective.

OP posts:
Survivingmy3yearold · 24/08/2023 17:28

@DrSbaitso but you don't get to decide where the hurt comes from and who others should blame in their own circumstances, can't you understand that? I was hurt by both of their actions, the conversations they had between themselves regarding me were vile, and her behaviour after it all came out wasn't great either. Why do you think you should be the decider of who I blame and for what? You can keep telling me I'm wrong, but that won't change the reality of what happened for me, and it won't make me feel any other way about the OW

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 24/08/2023 17:28

applesandmares... and there it is. You'd have strong words with HER. It's your husband who is the gatekeeper of his penis, not you. She is completely immaterial whether she's successful or not - he has complete autonomy.

I've explained what I meant; you have every right to disagree with me.

applesandmares · 24/08/2023 17:30

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Why the hell should they when the married person does not?

Well I don't really agree with this either but understand the point. If someone told me they didn't care about their scratched up car I wouldn't get out and key it. If I walk into someone's home and it's a mess I don't throw a can of Coke over the carpet. I respect things because my own moral code tells me to, it isn't dependant on what others think or feel.

applesandmares · 24/08/2023 17:31

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 24/08/2023 17:28

applesandmares... and there it is. You'd have strong words with HER. It's your husband who is the gatekeeper of his penis, not you. She is completely immaterial whether she's successful or not - he has complete autonomy.

I've explained what I meant; you have every right to disagree with me.

Well yes why would I have strong words for my partner if he rebuffed a woman's advances? That would be weird and counter intuitive 😂

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 24/08/2023 17:34

I think we're talking at cross purposes now and making comparisons that really aren't similar at all.

Thank goodness we're on page 10, this thread will soon be done... until the next one! Grin

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 24/08/2023 17:37

applesandmares · 24/08/2023 17:31

Well yes why would I have strong words for my partner if he rebuffed a woman's advances? That would be weird and counter intuitive 😂

There's no need to 'have a word' with her, is there? Your husband would have done all that needed to be done. It's never a good look when a spouse decides to step in because it looks like exactly what it is - her gatekeeping her spouse.

It's pointless because if and when he doesn't rebuff, will you 'have a word' with her then as well? That is the point I'm making. You're giving too much credence to the other woman, even one that isn't.

Crikeyalmighty · 24/08/2023 17:39

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe well I'm still married- but he's no longer 'on the pedestal' is the best way of putting it. I found out 10 years after it happened - if I had found out at the time I think he would have been given the order of the boot.

applesandmares · 24/08/2023 17:40

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe I think there is a point, because this hypothetical woman has disrespected our relationship (and the pair of us frankly). I'm not gatekeeping him, I'm gatekeeping our family, and will happily do so.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 24/08/2023 17:40

Fair enough, Crikeyalmighty, he was and is extremely lucky then. I personally believe that pedestals are just things to fall off and best avoided in all cases.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 24/08/2023 17:42

applesandmares, you have zero control over what your partner chooses to do. With or without your 'gatekeeping'. You cannot own another person nor keep them faithful - only they can do that.

Walkaround · 24/08/2023 17:45

When it comes down to it, it is human nature to want to look for excuses for the person you love. Less so to look for excuses for the person you have never been given any reason to love. Unless the betrayal is complete, blatant and obviously deliberately cruel, there is room for doubt and confusion and being talked around to forgiveness - but no point doing that for the OW who represents nothing but the harms caused, without any of the redeeming features (memories of happier times, the need to continue to bring up children with them, shared assets, etc, etc). It’s not misogyny to feel hatred towards someone who has hurt you and means nothing to you except sensations of pain and sadness. With time and distance, a more objective view of the situation may be possible, but seldom in the moment.

applesandmares · 24/08/2023 17:46

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 24/08/2023 17:42

applesandmares, you have zero control over what your partner chooses to do. With or without your 'gatekeeping'. You cannot own another person nor keep them faithful - only they can do that.

Edited

No but I can tell a woman to piss off if she's intentionally trying to destroy my family 😂

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 24/08/2023 17:56

That is very true, Walkaround, sad but true.

Survivingmy3yearold · 24/08/2023 17:56

Walkaround · 24/08/2023 17:45

When it comes down to it, it is human nature to want to look for excuses for the person you love. Less so to look for excuses for the person you have never been given any reason to love. Unless the betrayal is complete, blatant and obviously deliberately cruel, there is room for doubt and confusion and being talked around to forgiveness - but no point doing that for the OW who represents nothing but the harms caused, without any of the redeeming features (memories of happier times, the need to continue to bring up children with them, shared assets, etc, etc). It’s not misogyny to feel hatred towards someone who has hurt you and means nothing to you except sensations of pain and sadness. With time and distance, a more objective view of the situation may be possible, but seldom in the moment.

@Walkaround exactly. I've said before on this thread that I don't feel the hatred towards her that I did, in fact I could sit down and have a civil conversation with her now if she were amenable. However it's taken me a very long time to get to this point. I still don't think she was blameless, I guess I've realised over time that there's no point in hanging onto hate, it doesn't do anyone any good. That doesn't mean I was wrong or somehow misogynistic to hate her in the immediate aftermath and the years after, it was how I felt about her and I'm not ashamed of that

Honeychickpea · 24/08/2023 18:00

applesandmares · 24/08/2023 17:46

No but I can tell a woman to piss off if she's intentionally trying to destroy my family 😂

And she is free to laugh in your face and carry right on.

applesandmares · 24/08/2023 18:02

@Honeychickpea absolutely she is free to do that! Wouldn't advise it though 😂

Thewookiemustgo · 24/08/2023 19:08

Believe me I haven’t underestimated the cost of splitting assets etc and neither has he. However, in my case it genuinely wasn’t about that, no matter what others choose to believe about people they don’t know on the internet.
This isn’t stealth boasting but we’d both still be wealthy if we split up and our lifestyle wouldn’t need to change because of finances if we were apart, nor the lives of our children.
There is no material reason for us to stay together whatsoever. I know why he didn’t want to leave and I know why I him a second chance and I’m happy with that, whether others believe in love or not. It was no sunk costs fallacy either, even after 35 years together.
Was he loving to me during the affair? Not when he was with her, no. When he was with me he was as he always was. He never wanted to change that, genuinely thought he’d never, ever get caught, and never intended leaving me and the children. She eventually wanted him to leave us and did all she could to make that happen. It was never going to.
To say the whole thing was mentally fucked up, on both sides, in this case, is a huge understatement. Massive re-invention of himself, playing a part, enjoying being somebody else a couple of times a week where nobody knew him. Fantasy Island in the real world if you like.
He’d compartmentalised massively. It happened a 100 mile commute from our home and was all in a bubble centred around work. No risk to his life as it was at all, he thought. The train to work took him from one world to the other and it made it easier not to think about what he was actually doing, because he knew nobody in either world would ever bump into each other. Everything was kept totally separate for all involved until the stress cracks started to show to me and to her.
He had no practical reason to stop him leaving, plus the kids were teens at the time, they would be going to Uni in a few years, so not at home with us often, so he knew that in a couple of years it would just be me and him most of the time, but he didn’t want to lose them or me.
The affair wasn’t about us, or me, or lack of love, it was about him. Affairs are about the people participating in them, nobody else.
Some affairs transfer into the real world and become happy, long relationships, but far more don’t. Reality is the acid test for affairs re staying or leaving. In some cases when your shared life experiences involve no more than eating out in nice restaurants and sex in hotels, always seeing each other at your best, seeing only what the other person chooses to show you, unable to back up a barely a word anybody says about how their lives really are or how they feel about anything with real evidence, the decision to leave has only this as its base, with the added fun knowledge that both parties can cheat and lie. This is why the failure rate is so high (if statistics are to be believed) for affair relationships and affair partners who leave to be together. The ones for whom it was the right decision are in the minority.
I believe that one size never fits all with human beings, we have traits and tendencies but there are always those who buck the trend. I’m certain that not everyone who stays in their marriage stays for practical reasons. I know at least four post affair marriages who are still together, two of them decades later and happy, never regretted the decision.
Not all cheats are cynics totting up a bank balance or too lazy to upend their lives.
It’s tempting to lump all cheating MM into the cheating cynical man who only stays because he’d be materially worse off/ couldn’t be arsed to upset the cushy family apple cart bracket. It makes it easier to add to the list of ‘shit things about men’ and easier to shame/ further hurt the wives who give them a second chance.
Like it’s tempting to villify all OW or refuse to see flaws in those we love or say that everyone in the triangle must be riddled with self-esteem issues. Some, yes, absolutely true, but all? No. No man or woman is ever 100% anything. Life would be far simpler if there were certainties in human behaviour: eg All those who stay are doing it for the money/ easy life. All OW are evil. Cheating only happens in unhappy relationships. All affair relationships are doomed. Once a cheat always a cheat etc etc. X Y or Z will never happen to me. I know exactly how I/ he/ she would react in any given circumstances.

None of these statements are true, otherwise big decision making in life and predicting behaviour would be a cinch. The evidence that it isn’t is all over MN, hardly anyone would need to ask anything.
Some are cynically staying, probably unhappy and probably more likely to cheat again, but to some it’s a massive wake up call and re-assessment of their lives, of all they were taking for granted. Far too simple to say that for everyone it’s about money and assets and that they CBA to change their lives in every single case.
There are as many reasons to stay as there are to cheat as there are people on this planet. Uniqueness and individual complexity in the human condition is why reliance on generalisations is too easy and there’s always somebody to disprove it.

DameCurlyBassey · 24/08/2023 19:18

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 24/08/2023 16:53

Yes, he's responsible for that, Survivingmy3yearold, think for a minute about what that actually is. It is the assured breaking of vows that he (or she) made to their spouse, the complete disregard of the potential pain that will be caused to the family he/she is supposed to love and keep them safe and intact from all that. He/she promised it.

The other person, the affair partner, may be selfish, inconsiderate, blatantly disrespectful of the marriage and of the part she (or he) is playing in the potential destruction of it but this is a relationship that she is not part of, has no responsibility for it.

Posters are still rushing in to blame her and hold her equally accountable when she is not. She is not responsible for any of his behaviour, only hers. That being the case, why is she being held accountable for what he does? He could have just not done any of it. If men would just stop cheating, there would be no other women (or other men), ever.

Women are not responsible for the actions of men. The married person has total and complete culpability for what they do and this disingenuous thread is really just a thinly veiled way of slating other women, bringing them to book, whilst repeatedly excusing the married man or just glossing over his actions so as to quickly get back to the point - pillorying the other woman.

Until women start holding their husbands fully accountable for the affairs that they choose to have, they have no place asking 'why women have affairs with married men'. Ask your husbands why they have elected to do this to you.

I think many ow are misogynistic. They may not intend to be but invariably they are. Their actions support men’s deplorable oppression of women. W If you know that a man is cheating on his wife and you claim that has nothing to do with you because all you are doing is having a bit of sex then you are delusional. If you think having an affair which destroys another woman’s life empowers you then bully for you, but you are not the feminist you think you are.

If the ow who had a thing with my ex knew about his cruelty (mocking and so forth being the least of it) then she is a misogynist. I have never allowed myself to believe that she did because that would be unconscionable. But she may well have. Others on this thread have said that the ow colluded in taunting and goading her) which is behaviour that should be called out.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 24/08/2023 19:20

That is beautifully put, Thewookiemustgo. I'm glad that it has worked out for you both and that you've come out the other side together, and stronger for it.

I think that your circumstances are very different to what many other people's are though. Many people do not have the financial stability to take the hit of a split and not feel a ripple. Likewise, the impact of going from a two-parent household to one is a difficult prospect when it comes to childcare and the inevitable custody arrangements for seeing the children. I've seen many instances of this and none of yours.

I do though take your point and apologise for the generalisation because my experience isn't vast and whilst I've never encountered a scenario such as yours, that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

I will though take issue with your statement about wanting to hurt the wives who take their partners back. I know that some posters are prolific and vitriolic about that. My view is that it's the couple's business and nobody else's. Nobody else can know what they do and that's as it should be. No need for judgements from anybody.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 24/08/2023 19:21

DameCurlyBassey, for some reason you keep harking on about feminism. This has absolutely nothing to do with that and respectfully, you are not the arbiter of it.

DrSbaitso · 24/08/2023 19:23

applesandmares · 24/08/2023 17:46

No but I can tell a woman to piss off if she's intentionally trying to destroy my family 😂

If you can trust your husband, you won't need to.

Would it be OK if you found him propositioning other women and the only reason he hadn't snagged them was because they'd said no?

mealtickety · 24/08/2023 19:26

Thewookiemustgo · 24/08/2023 19:08

Believe me I haven’t underestimated the cost of splitting assets etc and neither has he. However, in my case it genuinely wasn’t about that, no matter what others choose to believe about people they don’t know on the internet.
This isn’t stealth boasting but we’d both still be wealthy if we split up and our lifestyle wouldn’t need to change because of finances if we were apart, nor the lives of our children.
There is no material reason for us to stay together whatsoever. I know why he didn’t want to leave and I know why I him a second chance and I’m happy with that, whether others believe in love or not. It was no sunk costs fallacy either, even after 35 years together.
Was he loving to me during the affair? Not when he was with her, no. When he was with me he was as he always was. He never wanted to change that, genuinely thought he’d never, ever get caught, and never intended leaving me and the children. She eventually wanted him to leave us and did all she could to make that happen. It was never going to.
To say the whole thing was mentally fucked up, on both sides, in this case, is a huge understatement. Massive re-invention of himself, playing a part, enjoying being somebody else a couple of times a week where nobody knew him. Fantasy Island in the real world if you like.
He’d compartmentalised massively. It happened a 100 mile commute from our home and was all in a bubble centred around work. No risk to his life as it was at all, he thought. The train to work took him from one world to the other and it made it easier not to think about what he was actually doing, because he knew nobody in either world would ever bump into each other. Everything was kept totally separate for all involved until the stress cracks started to show to me and to her.
He had no practical reason to stop him leaving, plus the kids were teens at the time, they would be going to Uni in a few years, so not at home with us often, so he knew that in a couple of years it would just be me and him most of the time, but he didn’t want to lose them or me.
The affair wasn’t about us, or me, or lack of love, it was about him. Affairs are about the people participating in them, nobody else.
Some affairs transfer into the real world and become happy, long relationships, but far more don’t. Reality is the acid test for affairs re staying or leaving. In some cases when your shared life experiences involve no more than eating out in nice restaurants and sex in hotels, always seeing each other at your best, seeing only what the other person chooses to show you, unable to back up a barely a word anybody says about how their lives really are or how they feel about anything with real evidence, the decision to leave has only this as its base, with the added fun knowledge that both parties can cheat and lie. This is why the failure rate is so high (if statistics are to be believed) for affair relationships and affair partners who leave to be together. The ones for whom it was the right decision are in the minority.
I believe that one size never fits all with human beings, we have traits and tendencies but there are always those who buck the trend. I’m certain that not everyone who stays in their marriage stays for practical reasons. I know at least four post affair marriages who are still together, two of them decades later and happy, never regretted the decision.
Not all cheats are cynics totting up a bank balance or too lazy to upend their lives.
It’s tempting to lump all cheating MM into the cheating cynical man who only stays because he’d be materially worse off/ couldn’t be arsed to upset the cushy family apple cart bracket. It makes it easier to add to the list of ‘shit things about men’ and easier to shame/ further hurt the wives who give them a second chance.
Like it’s tempting to villify all OW or refuse to see flaws in those we love or say that everyone in the triangle must be riddled with self-esteem issues. Some, yes, absolutely true, but all? No. No man or woman is ever 100% anything. Life would be far simpler if there were certainties in human behaviour: eg All those who stay are doing it for the money/ easy life. All OW are evil. Cheating only happens in unhappy relationships. All affair relationships are doomed. Once a cheat always a cheat etc etc. X Y or Z will never happen to me. I know exactly how I/ he/ she would react in any given circumstances.

None of these statements are true, otherwise big decision making in life and predicting behaviour would be a cinch. The evidence that it isn’t is all over MN, hardly anyone would need to ask anything.
Some are cynically staying, probably unhappy and probably more likely to cheat again, but to some it’s a massive wake up call and re-assessment of their lives, of all they were taking for granted. Far too simple to say that for everyone it’s about money and assets and that they CBA to change their lives in every single case.
There are as many reasons to stay as there are to cheat as there are people on this planet. Uniqueness and individual complexity in the human condition is why reliance on generalisations is too easy and there’s always somebody to disprove it.

Jeez!!!

All that to justify to strangers why you stayed with a cheat?!? I have a lot more respect for MN posters who have stayed, and have come on here and written a succinct paragraph or two about their decision.

DrSbaitso · 24/08/2023 19:27

mealtickety · 24/08/2023 19:26

Jeez!!!

All that to justify to strangers why you stayed with a cheat?!? I have a lot more respect for MN posters who have stayed, and have come on here and written a succinct paragraph or two about their decision.

It added more to the discussion than this needlessly rude and pointless post of yours.

Buildingthefuture · 24/08/2023 19:28

I will preface this by saying that I have stated, multiple times, that married people are responsible for their own marriage. I do not believe in “evil temptress” bollocks, we all have a choice. I do note however that NONE of the people denying ANY AT ALL culpability for the OM/OW have responded to my point about shitting on the carpet? So I will ask it again. I have never promised not to take a shit on your living room carpet, but, if I did, you would be pissed off I think? And frankly baffled if my response was “I never promised I wouldn’t”?
I have never been in this situation, but if my DH did this, my first thought would be to have his balls off. With a spoon. I do however, have more than enough mental capacity to be angry with more than one person at once. Most fully functioning people do. So yes, whilst I would be utterly, utterly raging with DH, I have more than enough emotional understanding to also be angry at someone who has knowingly caused me harm. She would have shit on my carpet. And that is NOT ok.

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