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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Why do women have affairs with men with young children

999 replies

Thegreenpotter · 19/08/2023 22:52

As the title says. Why?

Do they have no concept of the toll that having young children can take on a relationship?

How can they feel ok playing a part in breaking up a family?

This is not to suggest the blame lies with the other women, far from. Just more a curiosity as to why and how they can do so from a moral perspective.

OP posts:
WantingToEducate · 24/08/2023 11:16

Walkaround · 24/08/2023 10:14

I do know that you are statistically far more likely to have an affair if one or both of your parents had affairs (or maybe more likely to get caught out, just like your parents - who knows?!). Likewise re divorce. Obviously there is a link to emotional damage caused by trauma and to learning behaviour by example - maybe even to the extent you grow up to gravitate towards cheaters and liars, because that was the relationship model you were given, so you don’t consider it an aberration.

My parents divorced when I was about 3
so I have absolutely memory of it and I have never know any different to growing up with a single parent.

The divorce was extremely amicable, my dad was always very hands on, had us every other weekend and took me and my sister on holiday each year etc, and even now, almost 40 years after the divorce and me and sister well grown up, they are still in each others lives and do things to help each other out. Like today for example, my dad is taking my mum to the airport, and my mum will always invite my dad over for Christmas dinner, they still buy each other birthday presents and lend each other money if needed etc

So yes, although they are divorced it was never traumatic and unpleasant and the fact they still get on really well is obviously a positive.

They were only about 28 when they separated and neither of them have ever re-married. In fact neither of them have lived with another man/woman either.

Even the marriages I did grow up around were never positive examples.

My mum’s sister was married but he was physically abusive to her, my grandparent’s were married (maternal side) and their marriage was a bit of a wreck too. So marriage was never something I saw as special….it felt like it was more of a duty to be filled, or it was seen as a societal expectation that people be married, but that doesn’t actually mean the people within the marriage are happy to be married to each other.

Some of my friend’s parents were married but I was always of the mindset that marriage was just something people did in order to have children and not “live in sin” etc and that aside from that, marriage didn’t actually have any deeper meaning and it didn’t signify at all that the men are women are necessarily happy together or choosing to be together.

I do wonder if having those feelings as I grew up played a part in me being an OW and on reflection I guess it may have. I’m ashamed to say it now, at the age I am now, (and married with children) but at the time I didn’t care at all that the MM was married and I didn’t give any thought at all to his wife because in my head the concept of them being married didn’t mean anything to me, it just didn’t matter. I didn’t know his wife’s name, her age, what she did as a job, what she looked like…. Just nothing. I didn't even know where they lived.

It’s really strange reflecting back on it (and of course I would never do it again) but it’s strange to think about how little I cared.

And then I think about the time my LTR broke down many years ago because I found out my partner was cheating on me, it surprised me how little anger I felt towards the OW. I met up with her and she explained to me how the affair had come to be and how long it had been going on for etc and I didn’t feel any kind of hatred towards her. If I passed her in the street afterwards we would stop and say hello, we were Facebook friends too and I would go and talk to her if we bumped into each other on nights out etc and people couldn’t understand why I wasn’t furious or hating on her. At the time though I just assumed she hadn’t cared about me in the same way I hadn’t cared about the MM’s wife……and that there was nothing wrong with that. She’d liked my partner, he’d liked her back and so why should she care about me? I was nothing to her, she’d never met me, she didn’t owe me anything etc, and I was fine with that.

When I didn’t care about the MM’s wife I didn’t think there was anything wrong with that approach, and so I didn’t think badly of the woman who’d been having an affair with my partner because she’d done nothing different to what I had done. She’d ignored the fact I had existed in the same way I had ignored MM’s wife has existed.

It all just felt so normal.

As a married woman I would feel devastated if my husband cheated on me and although the OW would be an easy target to channel my anger at, if she was a complete stranger to me I’m not sure I’d put any blame on her. But that’s just hypothetical and hopefully I will never have to find out.

WantingToEducate · 24/08/2023 11:21

TheFormidableMrsC · 24/08/2023 11:06

I knew her. Absolutely couldn't stand her. She showed zero respect for me and openly flirted with my husband. When he left to live with her, the escalation of abuse was horrific. She wanted my child and if she couldn't have him, then my husband was instructed to give him up. Which he did. I don't know how I ever got through it. It was utter hell. I ended up with cancer following on from years of relentless stress. I will never get my head round the utter cruelty, the absolute disregard the pair of them showed me and my little boy. Her behaviour towards my child was so bad that the court put a prohibited steps order in place to prevent her having contact with him. She absolutely loved torturing me, revelled in it.

That’s awful 😢 She sounds like she had severe psychological issues. I can’t even get my head around it or even comprehend how your Ex allowed her to behave that way. It’s horrifying.

lunaalice · 24/08/2023 11:21

@WantingToEducate My parents split when I was 16. 4 different men lived with us. Dad had 2 different girlfriends. I never saw my dad much after that. My siblings moved in with him and I worked all weekend and studied all week. It still didn't occur to me that marriage doesn't mean anything and it's ok to pursue a married man.

DrSbaitso · 24/08/2023 11:25

TheFormidableMrsC · 24/08/2023 11:06

I knew her. Absolutely couldn't stand her. She showed zero respect for me and openly flirted with my husband. When he left to live with her, the escalation of abuse was horrific. She wanted my child and if she couldn't have him, then my husband was instructed to give him up. Which he did. I don't know how I ever got through it. It was utter hell. I ended up with cancer following on from years of relentless stress. I will never get my head round the utter cruelty, the absolute disregard the pair of them showed me and my little boy. Her behaviour towards my child was so bad that the court put a prohibited steps order in place to prevent her having contact with him. She absolutely loved torturing me, revelled in it.

Yes, yours is the story I recall. I don't even have the words, pair of absolute shits. I can sort of understand succumbing to sexual temptation when you shouldn't (not that I think it's ok) but this level of malicious, sadistic, sustained abuse and cruelty - where you want to destroy a person rather than just feel good yourself - is incomprehensible. It's another level.

Did your twat ex come on here at one point and expect to get sympathy or am I thinking of someone else?

WantingToEducate · 24/08/2023 11:28

lunaalice · 24/08/2023 11:21

@WantingToEducate My parents split when I was 16. 4 different men lived with us. Dad had 2 different girlfriends. I never saw my dad much after that. My siblings moved in with him and I worked all weekend and studied all week. It still didn't occur to me that marriage doesn't mean anything and it's ok to pursue a married man.

Well you’re lucky to come out of that situation still having the view that marriage and relationships are meaningful.

And this isn’t sarcasm, I’m just surprised.

Survivingmy3yearold · 24/08/2023 11:39

My parent's marriage was a deeply unhappy one. My F was a physically and emotionally abusive alcoholic who eventually drank himself to death a couple of years ago. My DM was a workaholic who really wasn't there when we were growing up, even when she was physically present. She still has issues around food, weight and body image now which has been passed onto DSis and I and we have had lifelong weight and food issues. This was probably her way of coping with her marriage and my F made her feel so worthless and made her believe she was fat and ugly (she really wasn't) that even now, to her fat is the worst possible thing someone could possibly be, it sends her into a bit of a panic. They married very young, DM was only just 18 and had given birth to DBro before she turned 19 and that was it for the next 28 years. We were all relieved when they finally divorced as it was just so miserable and toxic. My F stayed miserable, toxic and bitter until he died.

I wouldn't say I don't respect the contract of marriage. I agree it comes down to the people in it, but I know plenty of genuinely happy people who are married. And a few who have been genuinely unhappy and so have decided to divorce. These days it's so much more acceptable to be in a LTR and be fully committed, but not marry, or to have an open marriage/relationship, or to be single and have ONS or regular FWB for NSA sex, I really don't see the place that cheating has in society if I'm honest. I could have understood it slightly more a few decades ago when divorce was something that was really looked down upon and people (mainly women) who took that course of action were shunned in some cases. I don't think all men (or women) who cheat are in broken/unhappy marriages. Mine wasn't, he admitted he wasn't unhappy with me, I just wasn't giving his poor little penis as much attention since having a c section and he was feeling a little hard done by, although we had resumed having fairly regular sex when the affair started. He said pretty much his sole motivation was that he just didn't think I'd ever find out. He never loved her, even when they got married, he's admitted that since.

Crikeyalmighty · 24/08/2023 11:43

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe thing is in my situation I don't remotely think he was unhappy with me , I do think though that he was unhappy with himself and life stuff that wasn't actually anything to do with me or our marriage. I do think there are actually many kinds of 'cheaters' - plenty of opportunistic womanisers out there on dating sites, sexting others etc and then there are the ones like @Thewookiemustgo and I have experienced where it's incredibly out of character and seems to happen at a point where lots of other life shit rears it's head and act completely out of character in what is seemingly a perfectly happy marriage and where they are quite desparate to keep that marriage when they come to their senses. In my case I found out completely by chance 10 years after it happened. I don't think it's as simple as wives telling themselves all was good and husbands lying by saying 'all was good' - I honestly think some can have tendencies this way when they are having mental health issues. Certainly at the point my H was struggling with his mums terminal illness he was acting out of character in all kinds of ways - not remotely an excuse and he knows that - he genuinely was an unhappy person, but I am pretty sure I wasn't the source of the unhappiness. I have actually been on both sides of the coin- I had an affair in my 1st marriage and indeed I was unhappy with my marriage and it was pretty obvious too.

TheFormidableMrsC · 24/08/2023 11:48

@WantingToEducate He married her 🤷🏻‍♀️

TheFormidableMrsC · 24/08/2023 11:49

@DrSbaitso He did indeed. All us awful women being rude about the poor men 🙄

DrSbaitso · 24/08/2023 11:54

TheFormidableMrsC · 24/08/2023 11:49

@DrSbaitso He did indeed. All us awful women being rude about the poor men 🙄

I remember. He expected us to feel sorry for him and name him dad of the year because your son had been sick and he had to...clean it up.

Someone give the man a Victoria Cross!

Thewookiemustgo · 24/08/2023 12:09

@Crikeyalmighty I absolutely agree, whatever issues the person who cheats is going through can influence behaviour, that’s why I said ‘issues’. However I am not as brave as you and didn’t list any because you can end up with any number of replies saying you are making excuses for it, or an affair apologist. I could make a list of the shit that was going on (not marital) in my H’s life before he cheated but it doesn’t go down very well. None if it excuses infidelity, we all have our shit to deal with, but we don’t all cheat or hurt others as a result. It wouldn’t matter how many times I said that, anything said about cheats’ issues is often met with ‘boo hoo’ etc. So I’ll leave it there. 😉

TheFormidableMrsC · 24/08/2023 12:30

@DrSbaitso Yes that was it 🤣. The same man who brought him back from the first contact session after an hour because he "couldn't cope" and then kept telling me what a shit parent I was. He then took all his years of awful behaviour (and hers) and wrote it into a position statement as if i'd done it. My mind still boggles at it all.

Eaudesud · 24/08/2023 12:52

'I do see the OW as having culpability at an individual level. He may have been unhappy in his marriage but he has affairs with the potential OW who make themselves available'.

This view, that men's sexual continence can never be guaranteed, so women's availability has to contained instead, is the reason why women cannot leave their houses in Afghanistan.

ChefMike · 24/08/2023 12:56

Eaudesud · 24/08/2023 12:52

'I do see the OW as having culpability at an individual level. He may have been unhappy in his marriage but he has affairs with the potential OW who make themselves available'.

This view, that men's sexual continence can never be guaranteed, so women's availability has to contained instead, is the reason why women cannot leave their houses in Afghanistan.

How can you compare being an OW to Afghanistan? The fact that you live in a country where you can freely do this, and as this thread shows, avoid judgment- proves the very opposite.

OW don't have to do anything. You're free to get involved. But domt complaint when people dislike you

Survivingmy3yearold · 24/08/2023 13:18

@Eaudesud did you really just equate people laying some of the blame for an affair on the OW for making herself available and willingly sleeping with a MM to women suffering horrific religious oppression in Afghanistan? Confused Of course OW are free to be OW, we are all free to do so if we want to be. However, others are also free to judge us for those actions as they see fit

Walkaround · 24/08/2023 13:20

Eaudesud · 24/08/2023 12:52

'I do see the OW as having culpability at an individual level. He may have been unhappy in his marriage but he has affairs with the potential OW who make themselves available'.

This view, that men's sexual continence can never be guaranteed, so women's availability has to contained instead, is the reason why women cannot leave their houses in Afghanistan.

What a lot of hyperbolic rubbish. Huge numbers of women have affairs in the UK without fear of being imprisoned for it.

I see no merit in approving of bad behaviour. Say it as it is - if you think it’s bad behaviour when a man does it, it’s bad behaviour when a woman does it. The woman should not be villified more than the man, but she certainly doesn’t deserve a judgement-free pass to behave however she wants, regardless of the harm caused, any more than a man deserves a judgement-free pass to behave however he wants, regardless of the harm caused, whether in the context of being the person having an affair, or being the OM or OW encouraging and facilitating it. If you participate in bad behaviour, you are behaving badly.

ThirtyThrillionThreeTrees · 24/08/2023 13:38

100% of cheating is as simple as selfishness & arrogance. People who care far more about themselves than anyone else.

It may include low self esteem, unhappiness, desire, horniness, etc but plenty of people with those feeling those manage not to cheat. And as for the naivety excuse, that's one hell of a cop out.

There's no excuse for it. I despite cheaters, if you want to be with someone else go about it properly and break up with the person you are with.

I'm not very judgmental about most other things but there's a special place in hell for cheaters.

Survivingmy3yearold · 24/08/2023 14:33

@ThirtyThrillionThreeTrees you've hit the nail on the head!

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 24/08/2023 15:14

...the action of wanting to stay in their marriages shows what they really want to do.

Sorry but this sounds really peculiar. If they wanted to stay in their marriages, that was the default, wasn't it? Why didn't they then? Easiest thing in the world.

I think you grossly underestimate the cost of splitting and these selfish men calculate the costs in a second, realising how much it will financially cost them as well as deprive them of a stable home life. If they leave it's generally on discovery and they come crawling back. If their spouse holds firm they try harder. If you want to believe that it's all about love and happiness then by all means, do. I don't.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 24/08/2023 15:25

Crikeyalmighty you make a really, really excellent point. You say that you don't think your husband was unhappy with you (and I'm sure he wasn't) - but he was unhappy in himself. I think that's extremely insightful.

People are more than just marriage partners, they aren't the 'other half' of somebody else, they are people in their own right and some of them are deeply unhappy in their own skins. They (unfortunately) meet and marry other people who are together in themselves and are happy. The relationship then seems happy because one person is making it work and the other (unhappy) one is also trying. The unhappy one is lacking what the other partner does and I believe this makes them, in many cases, look outside for validation.

The key reason I think this is because the spouse knows (and loves) their partner, warts and all but damped down a bit over time (because that is natural) and a new person presenting their best side mirrors the side that the unhappy partner wishes to present also... the new person doesn't know them so the unhappy partner can say anything as they have a 'new slate' to write on.

When I said that happy people don't have affairs I truly believe that - but it's no indictment of the marriage or the other person, it absolutely isn't. It's all about the spouse who does indeed, put a bomb under their marriage.

RandomForest · 24/08/2023 15:42

Thou shalt not covet, the 10th commandment, not that people are religious anymore but it shows the same behaviour still occurs thousnds of years on.

And to covet anything which is not yours I believe plays a big part of this, namely selfishness, jealousy and attention.

So what do ow actually want, some say it's just sex, I honestly don't believe that, in many cases it's jealousy, jealousy of the home, of the lifestyle, of the wife, of the children, of their fanacial situation, of the friendship, of the male, there is usually a reason which may not be obvious even to the ow.

The attention they require whilst conducting the affair is incredibly selfish, they do not only wish to break unions by sex they wish to be placed first in the attentions of men and to do that they attend to men's needs and wants vigorously and without shame.
Even more rediculous and desperate when you have an aging ow.

Core selfishness not taking others into account, even on this thread certain posters began opening up about their horrific situations and you could feel a definite unified bond happening, what happened @Eaudesud threw in a bombshell comment about Afganistan, to bring the conversation back to them.

The attention they need is like fuel, everthing has to be about them.

Some of the stories are truly vile
Flowers for the survivors.

DrSbaitso · 24/08/2023 15:45

So what do ow actually want

Well they're not all the same! Some just want sex or a distraction, some are vulnerable and being manipulated, some get off on "beating" the wife while some take no pleasure in that, some want the whole life rather than the man as a person, some are in love and some are an escape from a genuinely unhappy marriage.

There's no absolute profile for them, just as there's no absolute profile for cheaters. Affairs are never right but they aren't all exactly the same.

RandomForest · 24/08/2023 15:49

When I said that happy people don't have affairs I truly believe that -
but it's no indictment of the marriage or the other person, it
absolutely isn't. It's all about the spouse who does indeed, put a bomb
under their marriage.

I'm so glad ow are the watchers of mens happiness, what would we do without them.

Try minding your own buisness.

DrSbaitso · 24/08/2023 15:59

RandomForest · 24/08/2023 15:49

When I said that happy people don't have affairs I truly believe that -
but it's no indictment of the marriage or the other person, it
absolutely isn't. It's all about the spouse who does indeed, put a bomb
under their marriage.

I'm so glad ow are the watchers of mens happiness, what would we do without them.

Try minding your own buisness.

That's not what she said at all.

Once again, this phenomenon of seeing someone hold the married person absolutely 100% accountable, and thinking that means something else entirely.

RandomForest · 24/08/2023 16:05

So what do ow actually want

They always want what someone else has.

They look arround and see that maybe their options are limited in an accepted pool of men, maybe they don't have the assets to compete in a fair world.

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