Why do women have affairs with men with young children

[Thegreenpotter]

As the title says. Why?

Do they have no concept of the toll that having young children can take on a relationship?

How can they feel ok playing a part in breaking up a family?

This is not to suggest the blame lies with the other women, far from. Just more a curiosity as to why and how they can do so from a moral perspective.

. “He told his wife and they broke up” is a world of pain...

...which he caused @DameCurlyBassey

He was wanting out of his marriage. He just didn't have the balls to tell his wife before he started seeing @WantingToEducate He'd already made all those sober little decisions to get in contact with her and arrange a get together. Whether he told her, whether she found out after the affair had ended, who knows? Either way, he was the one who broke his wife's heart.

He was wanting out of his marriage.

You don't know that he may have been chucked out of it.

Why would anyone take seriously the word of a liar.

They lie.

What is it with ow that they don't get, just because you are complicit with one lie that you believe is huge and you are party to that, you actually believe that they don't need to lie to you about anything else.
They gain your trust through your shared lie and bingo, you're hooked on thinking they would not decieve you.

Men will spin any words to make them to look like the good person or the victim and especially to the person in crime with them.

I agree with you. There is a lot of gaslighting going on here with ow convincing themselves and us that they played no part in the damage done, which they clearly did.

It reminds me of the doctrine of Joint Enterprise where someone can be convicted of a crime if they were with the person who committed it even if they didn’t do it themselves. I would describe the part the ow plays in cheating as Joint Enterprise.

Ever heard of Joint Enterprise?

Ever heard of a personal contract regarding private sexual choices?

This is the last time I am going to engage with you Random Forest
because over the last 24 hours you’ve transformed from being a normal,
logical, rational poster, to now just being a bit of a twat.

Why are you offended because I suggested that this man may not have actually adored you, what do you care, you didn't love him, it only his wife who has been hurt.

You though seem to have gone into a rage at the prospect that he couldn't have been anything other than devastated by you dumping him, it's a little narcissistic don't you think.

I don't wish to argue, I'm conversing with you, as you are with me except I don't call people twats.

@DameCurlyBassey yes! Joint enterprise makes sense.

It only makes sense if you regard a single personal contract as binding people who didn't sign it, or if you think consensual adult personal relationships can be equated to crimes. Which, to be fair, some people do. I've seen posters calling for fines and prison sentences for cheaters and I don't think they were joking.

Some people don't believe in marriage at all. They don't believe in that kind of sexual restriction. They're entitled to live that way. As long as everyone who does marry takes it on themselves to live accordingly, all is well.

You can't dictate to people who they sleep with. If someone has pledged themselves to you, you can expect them to keep that pledge, but you don't have a right to apply it to other people.

@DrSbaitso but we also have the right to expect a basic standard of decency and behaviour from people in society. People who don't behave to the expected standards usually find themselves in trouble with the law or without much of a friend/family support network due to not being trusted, and rightly so. Why is knowingly embarking on an affair, as either the married party or OW/OM any different? If a friend or family member of mine had knowingly engaged in an affair then I would judge them accordingly. I find it bonkers that we hold affair partners to such a bizarre standard despite their obvious wrongdoing. Particularly given that a lot of the OW who have commented on here have said that they just didn't care. They didn't mutually fall head over heels in love, they weren't lied to and manipulated, they knew what they were doing. Lots of people who commit wrongdoings don't necessarily owe the person they've wronged anything or entered into some sort of contract with them, it doesn't mean their actions mean any less and shouldn't be judged accordingly

Because it IS about men. Contrary to OW saying they don't care about the man, it's to wife who's desperate and insecure etc etc

OW needs to believe she's some kind of femme fatale obviously. Otherwise you realise you've been used for sex and aren't this stunning revered beauty

You can't dictate to people who they sleep with. If someone has pledged
themselves to you, you can expect them to keep that pledge, but you
don't have a right to apply it to other people.

I actually agree with you with that sentence but equally your behaviour by disrregarding the damage you actively collude in can appall people and they also have the right to feel that disgust.
You cannot govern how people think of ow.

You can present your case but people are still entitled to be offended by your actions.

If you don't care, you don't care.
I doubt either party is going to change their views, I know I've always taught my sons and daughters that it's morally wrong to go with anyone who is married.

What would your views on this be, would you encourage them to do so or support them if they were in an affair, or is this just a special set of extenuating circumstances for your world.

but we also have the right to expect a basic standard of decency and behaviour from people in society. People who don't behave to the expected standards usually find themselves in trouble with the law or without much of a friend/family support network due to not being trusted, and rightly so.

Why is knowingly embarking on an affair, as either the married party or OW/OM any different?

One, because it's outside the law, and so it should be. The state shouldn't interfere with people's sex lives beyond issues of consent and physical harm. Unless you do think it should be illegal for someone to have an affair in which case I can't discuss this with you, because you would support state control over people's personal lives to a frightening extent.

If you break your marriage contract, it can be dissolved on those grounds. That's as far as the state has a right to interfere.

If you treat people badly enough, you do indeed lose your support network. That's a natural consequence, up to you and them, and the law isn't required to intervene to make sure nobody wants to be your friend.

Two, similar to one, really: you can't expect the law to dictate that people can't be arseholes. If you want to make it illegal, joint enterprise, to have an affair, then it's also got to be illegal to lie about your income, your weight, whether you've had Botox or whatever to get someone into bed, because that's arsehoke behaviour. And it is arsehole behaviour, but you can't expect the law to interfere that far.

It's not illegal to be a total shit.

There's no such thing as joint enterprise when it comes to dictating to uncommitted people what they can and can't do, and a singular personal contract. Like I said, some people don't accept marriage as a valid institution and don't consent to be bound by it. They're allowed to live that way, as long as they don't marry. Once you do marry or commit yourself, you've made that personal pledge and you can't claim joint enterprise to hold everyone else in the world to it.

It's a complete fallacy based on a false equivalence.

That's actually a really good post... from a legal standpoint, not so much a moral one.

So that's about it really, in this world there are some people who are arseholes who don't care about others and some that do.

The only way to solve the problem is by making sure the two don't mix, be it unfaithful husbands not having the opportunity to marry and thereby ow not invading someone elses life.

It reminds of one of the Black Mirror episodes, 'The entire history of you' where everyone has their life recorded in an implant in their brain, to be rewound and played back to see the truth.

Can you imagine.

@DrSbaitso I haven't actually said it should be illegal and the law should intervene, just that in most cases if you act like a shit and behave badly then you will be on the wrong side of the law. And that's because as a society, we expect a basic standard of behaviour. There are lots of things that are not necessarily illegal but are otherwise still abhorrent ways to behave, and as a society we have a right to judge those people accordingly, even if the law doesn't. I will be teaching my children that it's not just about illegal vs not illegal, it's about right vs wrong and basic morality. There are some grey areas in that where in certain circumstances a typically wrong action may be justified, but I cannot think of a single circumstance where an affair is justified. If you're not happy, then leave. If you find yourself catching feelings for someone else and you no longer want to be with your spouse, then you need to leave. Bored and want NSA sex and ONS? Then leave and be single so you're free to do those things. Want an open marriage? Then discuss with your spouse and if necessary leave, there are plenty of open avenues these days to find out about and pursue ENM. Likewise for single people, there are plenty of avenues for meeting other single people to have whatever it is you want with them, no need to pursue or engage in affairs with MM/MW. It's always going to be hard when a marriage breaks down, but the lies and deceit are so much worse and make it so much more destructive. I cannot fathom that people in society think it's an acceptable way to behave.

So that's about it really, in this world there are some people who are arseholes who don't care about others and some that do.

Yes. That is very true.

I really, really, really don't condone affairs. I've never had one, never plan to. I know they are heartbreaking and devastating. I don't think they're all the same, I think there is nuance and I don't think everyone who has one is totally evil etc, but no, they're never right.

But I cannot accept that they should be illegal. The Government mustn't be able to dictate to consenting adults who they sleep with. It shouldn't be illegal to be an arsehole.

And the nature of joint enterprise is that both parties were involved in a crime. We can't opt out of criminal law but we can totally opt out of pledging sexual exclusivity. The fact that others opt in really doesn't matter.

The argument works only if it is accepted that affairs should be criminalised.

Barry has promised Frieda that he won't sleep with anyone but her. That's honestly not on anyone else. If he was planning to murder her, that's a bit different to his personal sexual choices.

I haven't actually said it should be illegal and the law should intervene, just that in most cases if you act like a shit and behave badly then you will be on the wrong side of the law. And that's because as a society, we expect a basic standard of behaviour. There are lots of things that are not necessarily illegal but are otherwise still abhorrent ways to behave, and as a society we have a right to judge those people accordingly, even if the law doesn't.

Well this is the thing. You expect your standards of behaviour to be universally accepted. But I don't agree that a personal sexual pledge from Barry binds anyone but Barry. To do that, I'd have to claim a right to dictate what uncommitted people do and I'm not comfortable with that. I don't expect it either. I expect my husband to stay faithful but I don't really expect every other woman in the world to be guardian of his penis for me.

You can blame OW if you want, but if you don't think Barry's promise is entirely on him - if you think every random in the world who didn't make it is also responsible - then it's hard to see what the promise is worth or why he bothered making it.

If you're raising your kids not to have affairs, no argument there. I'd suggest you also raise them to take full responsibility for their own commitments, though. Does it really console any betrayed wife to hear, "Hey babe, it was her fault too, you know!"

@DrSbaitso yes I will be raising my kids to accept responsibility for their actions, something many are saying OW shouldn't have to do 🙄 If you've behaved like a dick and done something wrong, no matter the extent of your involvement or if someone else was more wrong than you, you still have to face up to what you've done. Of course Barry entered into a contract with his wife, but that doesn't mean that others shouldn't respect that contract, even if Barry doesn't. If people don't respect the contract of marriage, they have no business being engaged in one or romantically/sexually involved with somebody engaged in one. There are plenty of other options. And that's on both parties, not just the married party.

@WantingToEducate

Takes the biscuit WTF!!!!!!!

I hope if you're married some 20 something will write her number on your husbands arm. Why would you do that?

I did it because I was drunk, naive, young and stupid.

Because they just don't give a fuck apparently. And neither does anyone else, they can sleep with MM with impunity and walk off Scot free leaving a trail of devastation and betrayal in their wake and the MM is the only one who's in the wrong

My wife is very vociferous about affairs yet I recall when we were younger she admitted having a fling with a man who had a girlfriend (no kids) when she was in her early 20’s and also slept with another guy on a weekend away who also had a girlfriend. I pointed out the hypocrisy of this when she was getting angry about someone’s affair. The only difference was they didn’t have kids.

If you're raising your kids not to have affairs, no argument there. I'd
suggest you also raise them to take full responsibility for their own
commitments, though. Does it really console any betrayed wife to hear,
"Hey babe, it was her fault too, you know!"

I think it does actually.
Legally it may not be wrong but morally yes it is wrong.

You can make laws up for a society but you still need morals for society to improve, for us to live together harmoniously.

Of course Barry entered into a contract with his wife, but that doesn't mean that others shouldn't respect that contract

But it's not their contract! That's the point! You're saying they have to abide by a contract they never made.

If people don't respect the contract of marriage, they have no business being engaged in one or romantically/sexually involved with somebody engaged in one.

That is literally what it means to respect the contract of marriage!

If people don't respect the contract of marriage, they shouldn't sign it. And that's really it. Don't sign it, don't be bound by it. As many people choose not to. Sign it, it's on you and you alone.

The "joint enterprise" argument rests on the idea that everyone is bound by someone else's commitment and cannot be otherwise. That, like the law, we can't opt out of it.

But this is a private contract about personal sexual fidelity and who you may and may not sleep with. If ever there was anything that doesn't bind anyone except the person who freely opted in, it's that.

You can't take legal concepts entirely out of context and decide that they apply to personal freedoms that aren't and should not be state controlled. It doesn't work.

Are you using this as a defence.