How do you interact with someone whose view of themselves is very far removed from the truth?

[Distantbells789]

A difficult one concerning a close family member. I love them but over the years have grown deeply uncomfortable about the lies they tell about themselves.

I know we all create a narrative about ourselves that helps us to accommodate our faults and inadequacies and uncomfortable truths, and helps us to plod on, but it gets to the point where it’s mentally very unhealthy when the idea you have about yourself is so very far removed from the reality.

I’m uncomfortable (and I’m not the only one in the family who feels this way!) because no one likes being lied to, but mainly because of the damage that these lies are doing to the individual themselves, because despite being academically intelligent, they appear to believe their own stories to a point bordering on delusion. What they say is patently untrue and they don’t seem to understand that everyone else around them knows they are untrue as well! They are not young and it’s so embarrassing!

Maybe they know they are lying but feel compelled to do it out of a sense of deep inadequacy? The trouble is they can never accept any slightest criticism or negative suggestion about themselves (just the usual very tame family stuff which “knocks the corners off”) despite being very outwardly confident to the point of being tough.

We don’t see one another that often in person which makes confronting them problematic because it would ruin a family “occasion” and they would find it very hurtful I think.

To give you an example, they lie about their financial situation eg will pretend to have been mugged rather than admit they are broke. Or they pretend the train broke down instead of being late. They are always broke and late which makes it hard to believe them.

And they make unrealistic claims about their physical capabilities when they can barely move. I understand that’s because in their head they want to do more for others but physically can’t.

I know I sound like a right cow saying all of this but the lies can be totally random, about how they mastered a certain craft and show you things they have made when its obvious they didn’t … it’s so pathetic in the proper sense of the word … so do you confront or just sigh and remain silent?

They do have many other good qualities and no one is perfect!

Would appreciate some advice please. If I confront them privately and kindly it might shake them out of this self delusion and they will stop embarrassing themselves and others in public.

On the other hand, they might feel so hurt that it will rupture our relationship forever.

I don’t know what to do but I do know that others in the family are getting very frustrated to the point they are going to call them at some point a lot more unkindly than is probably necessary.

'If I confront them privately and kindly it might shake them out of this self delusion and they will stop embarrassing themselves and others in public.'

It won't. Much more likely that they will become extremely defensive and turn it round on you. I feel for you because I have a similar experience with some family members and it can be maddening. However, people like this just cannot afford to drop the act and engage with reality. As you rightly observe, they have such a weak sense of self that they need to hide behind the stories and the excuses. They're highly unlikely to change. I manage my situation by having as little as possible to do with them, and trying to change the subject when I can

Regardless of how you challenge it with them, you won't change your behaviour. It serves a purpose for them so they will keep doing it.

You just avoid indulging it as much as possible. Just smile and say 'that's a shame' or 'That's nice' depending on it being good or bad. Then move the conversation onto something else.

You cannot, ime.

You just have to ameliorate whatever may impact you, family members and let them get on with it.

We have a much loved, generous, witty and loyal father who is actually a liar, a command and a thief. It took DSis far too long and far too much money before she was able to face facts. She was brave enough to then build bridges with me, having burned them all down years ago in his defence.

Take care of yourself first and foremost.

Depends on the person whether they are just compulsive liars or something else. There is a particular type of person, narcissist, who cannot take blame, criticism or fault for anything they do and they are generally abusive. However, there is a difference between a narcissistic person and someone with NPD.

If it's the latter, which I believe I'm dealing with, they are highly manipulative, stubborn and opinionated along with emotionally, psychologically and sometimes physically abusive. They will find any way to avoid blame, they see their lies as truth and lie compulsively, rewrite past and events to suit the lies and their narrative about themselves. It's delusional but it's because they cannot take blame or responsibility for anything and are always the victim, always an excuse or reason.

They often as in my experience over the course of time become totally different people entirely and change everything about themselves to suit their new image. Nobody sees it or believes it apart from those who happen to know them long enough, like family. They move through people and friends, new people are a blank slate for the lies and the person they currently are.

You cannot reason with the unreasonable, it doesn't matter how much you try it gets worse. In that case the likelihood is you will be an enemy, which you don't want, believe me, or you will be cut out completely as you know too much and dared to point it out.

That's assuming they are one, though of course. It's apparently rare but then again, they are perfect so why would they get help.

They sound quite similar to my sister. There are various narratives constructed in which she is always the victim- some are about her life now, some about when we were growing up, all of which seem quite far removed from reality. She shows little to no awareness as to how her behaviour affects others and cannot seem to conceive of the idea that people make decisions that don't revolve around her and her feelings.

We're both late 20s now and I'm more involved with her than I'd like to be. Mostly because I'd like to have a relationship with my nieces and make sure they're doing okay and being looked after properly.

So I do just grit my teeth through some of the obvious bullshit because I'd like to avoid starting a massive argument (again, mostly for the benefit of my nieces).

If- as you say - your relatives all have a similar opinion about this person and all find it painful, then it might be easier if you're able to put up a consistent front and say calmly but firmly "X, we know that's not true, there's no point lying about it".
Otherwise, if you're the only person willing to call it out and everyone else is willing to indulge it, then not only will it be ineffective, but you run the risk of being painted the villain.

Sorry - that's a bit of a ramble there and I'm probably projecting a fair bit from my own situation.

That’s v interesting Lottapianos and thank you for telling it to me straight. Disappointing but I understand that it’s a protective mechanism because they are obviously scared about others seeing who they really are. The silly thing is that they have lots of very genuine talents so they don’t need to feel inadequate but obviously do in some profound way.

When you say they have a weak sense of self do you mind explaining what you mean exactly please? Because to my mind it’s the other way around - they have a very strong sense of who they think they are or who they wish to be - but sadly very little of it matches up with reality.

Seemingly no empathy or remorse and just repeatably hurting everyone around them like it's nothing, yet you can't say a word out of line to them as they take great offense?

Thank you. That strikes me as very good advice.

I would manage it by not seeing them often and adopting a 'nod and smile' approach when you see them.

No good will come of challenging them - they won't believe you and will probably recruit other family members into making you the 'mean one'

Grit your teeth, nod and smile and try to spend your time chatting to someone else.

Not at all that’s a very helpful insight and you sound like a lovely person.

I also find it fascinating how siblings in the same family can turn out so differently.

I'm guessing it's one of your parents, and from experience, changing them is impossible. You would hope that with age comes wisdom, but sadly this kind of person just gets worse.

You just have to protect yourself, not engage, nod and proceed as you were. Expect nothing of them. You won't get anything.

Also very good practical advice, thank you.

No good can come of this conversation. You will just make them feel humiliated and they will feel angry with you. They may distance themselves from the family if they feel you’re all united in judging them.

I don’t quite understand why it’s bothering you so much to be honest. I mean I get why it’s frustrating and upsetting, because it would make me feel sad for them and worried about them. But you describe you and the family feeling angry. Why?

You seem to understand the reasons well. Why not try seeing if you can offer support with the underlying issues? Do you ever spend time with them one on one? Perhaps if you can nurture your relationship you may gain more insight into what’s going on or they may feel more able to confide in you.

Eek you have guessed right and I was expecting it to get better not worse! I guess I was wrong …

Smile and mice the conversation on. You cannot fix this.

There was a period from our late teens (when I think my mum finally accepted that there was a real issue with her behaviour and stopped playing it down) to when she had kids where I had no issue at all saying it straight to her. Really, it was quite cathartic after how she'd treated the whole family over the years.

Like I said, it's mostly about my nieces. I'd like to make sure that I'm not prevented from seeing them and also - quite crucially - that their mum isn't even more emotionally unregulated. While it might be quite satisfying to tell my sister precisely what I think next time she phones up to unload, it's going to wind her up in a hugely disproportionate manner, and my nieces are going to spend the next few hours being looked after by an angry, spiralling person.

They are more to be pitied than scorned. I feel quite sorry for them, honestly. They must have a very deep sense of insecurity, maybe even self-loathing, to constantly feel the need to lie about themselves.

There is literally nothing you could ever say that would change anything. Ignore or avoid are your only sensible options.

A Walter Mitty type character? I agree that confrontation won't work. Smile and nod and change the topic of conversation. Mentally have a 'bingo' list and tick off when a lie is produced. Detach.

You pose a very good question. I admit to being confused about my own feelings around this.

I think I know why being lied to makes me feel bad and uncomfortable and that’s because it implies that they cannot trust me enough to tell me the truth … I think it’s that ?

And I feel angry in other ways I suppose because it reflects so badly on them and it’s all so silly because they genuinely have other very good qualities and talents and so don’t need to lie.

And if I’m honest it’s embarrassing because it’s so obvious and I feel it reflects badly on us all as a family in public situations with friends and extended family. You naturally want to admire and respect those closest to you don’t you and it’s hard when their behaviour is disappointing?

We do offer support when we can with the underlying issues eg give money but they are more powerful in the family hierarchy and I’ve noticed that they always want me to confide in them but they rarely confide in me, not in an honest way, and not relating to genuinely important stuff anyway.

As for the family ganging up on them, it’s simply not the case. Separate individuals have mentioned this person’s behaviour to me and how it makes them feel and one mentioned how they are on the brink of cracking, but I have kept that information strictly private and separate, and we have not all sat down and talked about this person together and I don’t think any of us plan to that out of respect for them tbh.

Thank you. I am a wee bit
surprised by the unequivocal clarity of all the answers on here but I am at the same time very grateful for it!

Yes I have a parent like this and now a husband (I guess it was my normal). It's typical narcissistic personality. Very low self esteem and no clear sense of self but needs a constant supply of approval from others to boost their fragile ego. They have no clear sense of themselves in that they're just trying to be their own (or others) idea of amazing/wonderful/perfect. It's not who their actually are and they don't really know who they are (and they're not interested in who they actually are (which wouldn't be good enough to them), only in the fake construct (which they think is amazing). They don't even realise themselves often I don't think that is is all fake and fabricated, they are so caught up in their own lies and delusions.

They rewrite any past event to suit their own narrative and believe it 100%, they lie more naturally then they tell the truth - although they may consider themselves very honest (or alternatively consider themselves very clever with their lying). They are never to blame for anything, their self esteem won't allow it. There may be a lack of empathy and also remorse, they don't really have a sense of what is and isn't reasonable. But at the same time they can be extremely sensitive to any perceived criticism and feel the victim in any situation. They can also seem extremely nice and likeable to other people.

I would disagree that it always gets worse with age. But I also wouldn't say that it always gets better with age. I think it could possibly become a little better with age if the person is able to become more accepting of themselves - but it's not something you can change so I wouldn't try going down that route.

I think I'd be tempted to go along the route where you quickly change the subject from their lies onto something you know is genuine and ask them to tell you about that. If their lies aren't getting them the supply they crave but their true stories do, then that might cut down on the lying at least.

@WhosAfraidOfVirginalWolves Yes likely wise, I lived with that fallout with our children together and that was the end result for everyone who challenged.

I think I know why being lied to makes me feel bad and uncomfortable and that's because it implies that they cannot trust me enough to tell me the truth ... I think it's that?

No, that's not it really. Their behaviour has nothing to do with how they feel about you. It has everything to do with how they feel about themselves. They don't feel able to show themselves in a vulnerable light to anybody, so they make up all these lies as a front - a persona to hide the real them.

Not that I know anything about psychology, but that's my take on it, for what it's worth.

Seemingly no empathy or remorse and just repeatably hurting everyone around them like it's nothing, yet you can't say a word out of line to them as they take great offense?

Yes in a way ! Especially the bit about taking great offence! The situation is a bit more complicated though because my parent has endless empathy for people who they feel are less fortunate than themselves and I think that is genuine. However they will also repeatedly need or borrow or accept money from us their dc and never mention it again or attempt to pay it back because it doesn’t fit in with the strong conviction in their head that they are a generous and savvy and independent person who doesn’t need help from anyone.

They have a reasonable if not enormous income but they squandered huge amounts of money in the past on frivolous things and trying to buy people’s affections, and even now they consistently live above their means, so their penury is largely self inflicted. But the narrative is that none of it is their fault so it’s sort of normalised that others pay for a lot of their expenses.

I don’t like to reduce this to money because it’s not primarily about that - this thread is more about the lying and self delusion - and their life hasn’t been easy but neither do they seem to change or help themselves very much.