How do you interact with someone whose view of themselves is very far removed from the truth?

[Distantbells789]

A difficult one concerning a close family member. I love them but over the years have grown deeply uncomfortable about the lies they tell about themselves.

I know we all create a narrative about ourselves that helps us to accommodate our faults and inadequacies and uncomfortable truths, and helps us to plod on, but it gets to the point where it’s mentally very unhealthy when the idea you have about yourself is so very far removed from the reality.

I’m uncomfortable (and I’m not the only one in the family who feels this way!) because no one likes being lied to, but mainly because of the damage that these lies are doing to the individual themselves, because despite being academically intelligent, they appear to believe their own stories to a point bordering on delusion. What they say is patently untrue and they don’t seem to understand that everyone else around them knows they are untrue as well! They are not young and it’s so embarrassing!

Maybe they know they are lying but feel compelled to do it out of a sense of deep inadequacy? The trouble is they can never accept any slightest criticism or negative suggestion about themselves (just the usual very tame family stuff which “knocks the corners off”) despite being very outwardly confident to the point of being tough.

We don’t see one another that often in person which makes confronting them problematic because it would ruin a family “occasion” and they would find it very hurtful I think.

To give you an example, they lie about their financial situation eg will pretend to have been mugged rather than admit they are broke. Or they pretend the train broke down instead of being late. They are always broke and late which makes it hard to believe them.

And they make unrealistic claims about their physical capabilities when they can barely move. I understand that’s because in their head they want to do more for others but physically can’t.

I know I sound like a right cow saying all of this but the lies can be totally random, about how they mastered a certain craft and show you things they have made when its obvious they didn’t … it’s so pathetic in the proper sense of the word … so do you confront or just sigh and remain silent?

They do have many other good qualities and no one is perfect!

Would appreciate some advice please. If I confront them privately and kindly it might shake them out of this self delusion and they will stop embarrassing themselves and others in public.

On the other hand, they might feel so hurt that it will rupture our relationship forever.

I don’t know what to do but I do know that others in the family are getting very frustrated to the point they are going to call them at some point a lot more unkindly than is probably necessary.

Wow. This is quite an eye-opener! Just trying to take it all in. Sadly, so much of it fits … .

Oh I see …yes I guess that makes sense … thank you …

I meant to say itsmyp4rty that I am sorry you have two people in your life like this. 😢. That must be extremely hard.

@Distantbells789 If it is what I say then it's all an act like the confidence. Similarly in my case I thought it was empathy but it turned out it was shallow or mimicking of what is expected but deep down wasn't there I was fooled for years.

Underneath it all they are generally self conscious and have no self esteem but they wrap themselves in an illusion of someone else in order to protect themselves. This is where the criticism or blame thing comes into it, that affects their true selves and they react badly to it.

There doesn't even need to be any blame, generally they just think everyone is out to get them the world is against them. Everyone else is to blame they are perfect. If they take offense, feel slighted they can become nasty, volatile or go into rage. End result usually is too much push back, you are either smeared as the problem and they are the victim or you are cut out from their lives completely.

I have to go out now. Thank you very much to everyone who has responded. it’s been very helpful getting this out of my system. I have my answer and I won’t be calling this person out!

I have tried to respond to every reply but I may have missed some! I have read them all though thank you.

Thank you again. Your last paragraph has convinced me, if I needed any more convincing, that trying to change them is pointless and potentially harmful!

It sounds as if is this behaviour makes you feel like a small disappointed child, wishing and hoping this person could change and be the parent that you truly wanted and still want them to be.

Unfortunately, aside of some sort of miracle, they aren't going to change. You comment that they don't seem to want to improve - have you considered that they simply don't know another way to be?

You also comment that this person has had a tough life. Could you try taking a compassionate approach that events in their life - maybe their upbringing, trauma, bad luck, whatever it is for that person, has shaped who they are. You wish they were someone a bit different but due to all these events outside of their control, unfortunately they are not.

Despite all this they still have good points that you love which is fantastic.

You are then placed to have an adult to adult (OK somewhat damaged adult) relationship with them which will be a lot less upsetting and triggering for you.

@Distantbells789 It could be just lie a lot but if it's the same as what I faced, eventually took offense to everybody. Nobody was spared not even myself and they have created a new life for themselves that's a lie and stopped us all having a relationship with our children.

I'm about to go through courts at the moment to try sort it all out. The delusion is still strong, not phased just ignoring everything.

So yeah I think best probably just let it wash because it's not worth poking as it can escalate.

I'm very sorry you had to live with that 💐.

I think things are getting slowly better, now that her partner is coming to accept the fact that it's not "everybody else" driving her to act like this (as well as the effect it's having on their children) and is starting to stand up to her a bit. I don't think there's anything to be gained by him trying to reason with her behaviour, but just having somebody there who'd put the children first and not make excuses for her is a huge step in the right direction.

'When you say they have a weak sense of self do you mind explaining what you mean exactly please?'

Either that they really don't like who they are on the inside, or genuinely don't know who they are on the inside, deep down. So who they are gets constructed out of superficial stuff - stories, bragging, bigging themselves up somehow. For some people it's appearance or possessions. They pretend to be one way, but really they're an empty shell inside. It's really sad and disturbing

Thanks for explaining Lottapianos. I think I understand. I can definitely understand someone not liking who they are and I can understand someone being deluded about who they are. I suppose having a realistic sense of self is the same as being mentally healthy?

What you have been, and are, going through sounds horrific JibbaJab I’m so sorry.

@Distantbells789 Yeah, pretty awful but hopefully get somewhere eventually.Thank you though 😊

My MIL is like this to a lesser extent and also a covert narcissist. Nothing good comes from confronting her lies as I honestly believe she tells so many she starts to believe them. I just try to spend as little time as possible with her and smile and nod when I do see her.

No. I’m afraid my relationship with them is more distant than you describe. I gave up expecting anything from them long ago, when the compassionate approach continually failed, even though they would like more from the relationship on their side I think.

Believe me we have all tried the compassionate approach, and continue to practice kindness and understanding in our actions, even if we feel rather resentful inside. I’m sorry to say that their behaviour preceded the trauma they have experienced in their lives and in some ways contributed to it.

I am fortunate in that I have been able to establish , a good, fully independent, fulfilling life away from them many years ago. I never go and visit them if I can help it and we only meet up now at rare family events and that’s really only for the sake of my siblings so that we can support one another.

So I no longer feel like a disappointed child in their presence and I don’t feel remotely disappointed that they can’t offer me more as they are so incapacitated now - physically and in terms of their character - that it’s unrealistic to expect anything.

I do feel disappointed FOR them though because they are better than this and I think it would help them if they could be more realistic about themselves. And they wouldn’t be so dependent on family relationships if they didn’t lie continually to their friends with whom they fall out.

No, I’m sorry to say, that my feelings if I’m honest are far more superficial; in that their blatant lying makes me feel embarrassed for them and by them. A bit like you might be embarrassed by the antics of a vitriolic alcoholic in the family. It’s not very loyal or high minded of me but there you are.

It’s not so much with immediate family members that I feel acute embarrassment, because they all know the score, it’s when this person’s lies are exposed “to the fresh air” in the presence of extended family and friends who you can see are struggling to maintain politeness.

@Distantbells789 , you don't even need to be embarrassed about this family member. Remember their behavior is not a reflection on you or of anything you have/not done.
Take a few steps back , maybe even try to see the lighter side - if possible of their outrageous behavior. Humour is very useful to create distance, even if holding your breath....

You can still have compassion for them though the idea of having a truly adult relationship with them as suggested by pp, seems impossible .
An adult relationship would require so much that they are not capable of: empathy, humility, honesty, the list goes on....

I knew someone like this. It was such a shame, you just wanted to grab him and tell him there was no need for him to pretend, but it was impossible. His delusion was total, and convincing, and it was hard to imagine tackling the whole weirdness with any good coming out of it.

I think it's a form of mental illness that is very deep rooted, and maybe not even explained in terms of low self-esteem, although clearly that must play a part.

Not sure what you can do. I had fantasies about addressing it directly with him, but even now years later I think it would probably have done more harm than good.

Who knows, really! Sorry OP, it's a tricky one. X

I see so much of my ex husband in these posts.

It's really sad because I was his biggest cheerleader and believed (most) of his lies. It wasn't necessary to big himself up constantly we all loved him as he was. He got worse and worse unfortunately, and I started to really disconnect. That made his lies even bigger eg 'the Prime Minister contacted me directly to congratulate me on x project' it was really ludicrous in the end.

The kids now say 'dad's a liar' and they don't respect him like they did when they were little and believed what he said. For some reason this fuels him more!? 'I was picked to go to the Olympics' etc.

I no longer smile and nod and pretty much have him on ignore permanently, and it's led to him making up entire situations and interactions that paint him as the poor victim. It's bizarre.

Oh and I did take him on a couple of times, with concrete evidence of his lies. He still made out he was correct and it did not change him one iota.

I often theorise (possibly not always accurately but it's a way of trying to make sense of weird inexplicable behaviour) that it could trace back to experiences in childhood such as lack of attention, affection, praise and approval. They didn't get enough validation as an impressionable youngster, so their adult life is spent trying to make up for it, by creating themselves as a super-hero in their own mind.

I think I know why being lied to makes me feel bad and uncomfortable and that’s because it implies that they cannot trust me enough to tell me the truth … I think it’s that ?

I don't think you can assume that it's a reflection on you or any lack of trust in you, especially if you're the child and they're the parent, rather that they may want your acceptance, devotion, admiration (in their mind at least) and the way to get that is to paint themselves as some perfect, talented, awesome individual.

unrealistically, nobody is that, so they are setting themselves up for failure.

I would feel sad for them, being imprisoned inside their own mental inadequacies, unable to let their hero's crown slip.

When you say they have a weak sense of self do you mind explaining what you mean exactly please? Because to my mind it’s the other way around - they have a very strong sense of who they think they are or who they wish to be - but sadly very little of it matches up with reality.

You might have heard the phrase 'false self'? The person you're dealing with has a 'grandiose false self' that they're very, very invested in. As others have mentioned, this 'false self' is close to perfect - powerful, talented, not suffering from any failings, etc.

As you say in your first post, everyone has narratives about themselves that ease uncomfortable realities, but in most cases people are quite aware that their narrative is embellished. "Oh, I know I'm very average at golf but I like to tell myself that if I keep spending money on better clubs, I'll be a senior pro when I get to retirement age!" Also this rose-tinted view of ourselves (and others at times!) is generally not very far from the 'true self' of the person in question.

The person you're talking about is only dimly aware of the yawning gap between the 'false self' they present to others and the 'true self' that others can actually see. So the phrase above might be better rendered as 'a weak sense of their true self'. At some deep level, they do know the truth, but they hate the truth so much and are so ashamed of it that they will become very angry, blaming and aggressively defensive if anyone invalidates the grandiose 'false self' they have invented in their own imagination to replace it.

This is the basic description of narcissistic personality. My ex is narcissistic, and it's baffling because it's like they can't see the obvious gap between their lies and reality. I believe their minds genuinely do work differently to normal minds. My ex has done some outrageous rewriting of history in his time, and on a couple of occasions where I've been able to supply cold hard evidence that his story is false, he seems absolutely gobsmacked and then rapidly makes an excuse to exit the discussion.

He has a terrible memory, and often forgets things that have happened, especially things that show him in a bad light. I believe that narcissists' minds do something called 'confabulating' when they are under stress. This means mixing small details of real memories, forgetting things that show them in a bad light, and substituting with imagined actions that seem preferable to them. I genuinely think this occurs unconsciously and they believe their own lies, but it is utterly infuriating to deal with. It's best to recognise that this person is at some level irrational, and just ensure that they don't have any real ability to affect your life.

@CheekyHobson Same experience here. You can say something happened in the past that you've both discussed multiple times previously or others were present, proof it did happen. Nope didn't happen or it happened another way.

I believe from what I understand they also cannot interpret communication the same like conversations or messages. Apparently you should keep things short because they don't absorb it all, even text and just pull out what they see at the time and focus on particular parts. I found this true where someone would message them and they would take offense, they could reread it and come to the same conclusion every time. Even then you could say something straight forward over message and it's taken the wrong way and warped into something else.

I confronted mine as withholding to try and see the children, was calm and tried to communicate calmly, didn't raise my voice, to resolve the issue they had created. Nope I'm dangerous, a threat and I am too dangerous to see them now. It wasn't that at all but what it actually was I believe was an emotional response, how they felt, they didn't like me being there because they couldn't face me or the consequences of what they have done, the shame. So therefore, hit me with DARVO and made me the problem.

It's sad in a way because they just do not understand, it you stopped doing all these things there would be no blame, confrontation or shame associated. They literally create their own drama that needn't exist.

Its obvious from your post that you understand defence mechanisms and therefore how these unrealistic beliefs are being utilised by your relative for the purposes of self preservation.

Its not an unusual situation, and everyone has these blind-spots to some degree. I don't understand why you feel so driven to burst this particular bubble, given that you don't see the person that often?

Tbh the impetus isn’t coming from me so much as other siblings and their spouses as they have been particularly frustrated by our parent’s behaviour recently. . . I understand why as it involves making promises to grandchildren (sees themself as amazing grandparent) but then doesn’t turn up, cancels at last minute, is generally flakey but then is incredibly hurt when grandchildren don’t want to see them!

The person you're talking about is only dimly aware of the yawning gap between the 'false self' they present to others and the 'true self' that others can actually see. So the phrase above might be better rendered as 'a weak sense of their true self'. At some deep level, they do know the truth, but they hate the truth so much and are so ashamed of it that they will become very angry, blaming and aggressively defensive if anyone invalidates the grandiose 'false self' they have invented in their own imagination to replace it.

Thank you very much for elaborating CheekyHobson this all makes a lot of sense now. What I hadn’t realised that this is the foundation of narcissistic personality disorder. I am sorry you have to deal with this in your ex which sounds very difficult indeed. I do t think my parent is quite as badly affected as you describe but I do think some deep shame lies at the heart of it around which they have built a hard shell.

Also your description of “confabulating” is absolutely spot on! I recognize so strongly the editing of history in their favour. It’s so frustrating!