Sex Ultimatum

[PigeonOnTheWashingLine]

I've been with my wife (same sex) for 9 years, married for 7. We have two kids in early primary school. We both work full time - her mainly at home, me mainly in the office and split the childcare & chores pretty evenly although she generally does a bit more of the life admin and I do more of the practical stuff.

Pre-marrige everything was great. Loads of fun, conversation, affection and sex. However, everything changed once we got married. It was almost an overnight thing where she withdrew affection & sex. These days we rarely have sex. Months can go by without even the slightest whiff of intimacy - she just doesn't have any sort of drive for that kind of thing.

Over the years I've pretty much given up trying and it's crippling me. I almost can't bear to go to bed as I know she'll either "be asleep" or at best I might get a cuddle.

We've talked about it in the past and promises are made yet nothing ever changes. Any time I suggest we get a bit physical I get an excuse: I'm tired, it's too late, it's too early, the kids might come in, I'm on my period, I've got a headache, I've eaten too much, I'm thinking about work, it's not spontaneous enough, it's too spontaneous, I'm not in the mood and so-on. Even if I try a long run up like suggesting something at the weekend she gets more and more picky and grumpy with me as time goes by. She did it recently on my 40th. She made my birthday an absolute misery because when she asked what I wanted, I said it would be quite nice if we could try reconnecting. As it was I got a card, a packet of crisps from the shop & a day fluctuating between silent moodiness and picking at me for pointless things.

I love my wife and she says she loves me. I just can't keep going like this though. It's our anniversary coming up and the thought of an awkward day together fills me with dread. I really want the relationship to work but can't keep going on this way. I have needs that I've been squashing down all these years. I don't even masturbate any more to try and calm the urge.

I once suggested seeing other people to remove that pressure from our relationship but she got extremely angry.

I'm now considering divorce as a last resort because I simply cannot go on with her as she refuses to acknowlegde or engage with what I see as a massive problem in our relationship. I resent having to be in this position because my father buggered off when I was only a few years old and my wife has already preemptively given me the "you'd be just like your father" rant.

So there I am. I don't know what to do for the best of my relationship, children and own well being. I'd really appreciate your thoughts.

I couldn’t stay in a relationship like this. You’re not wrong, and I wouldn’t think any less of someone leaving a relationship like this.

I'm sorry to hear this. Sex is an important part of a loving relationship usually and can help in re-establishing closeness and healing wounds. I've been in a similar situation, also lesbian, but I was the one who went off sex with her. Fortunately no children together as that makes a massive difference. Our relationship limped on for some years but eventually ended and I was relieved to be away from the pressure. Having children makes it important that you try to get to the bottom of whether this is salvageable. Perhaps some form of couple's counselling? Even if your wife gets upset or angry it is important she understands that this is something you care deeply about. I doubt that any sort of open relationship would work. If you do break up, then you don't need to abandon your kids or stop supporting her. For me, it was that I just stopped desiring her in that way. That was hard for me to admit to myself and I never told her so we ended rowing all the time about other things. Hope you manage to work it out

Well, I guess if sex is that important to you, then leave I suppose.
You can’t force anyone to have sex with you.

I was wondering about two thing you said. You said you wanted to ’reconnect’ with your wife, I assume this was just a euphemism to sex, but still that you perhaps wanted something deeper and more meaningful than just sex. Maybe?
But then you said seeing other people? Do you mean just sex? Or actually dating/caring about another person?
I’m just wondering what you actually want. Sometimes it’s hard to tell with this topic, since people go round and around saying they want something greater than.., but then it turns out they only ever wanted a leg over.

OP, I’m sorry things have worked out like this for you. It’s so difficult when you still love a person.
After all these years, do you honestly believe that things will alter? Have you asked her about why she is feeling that she doesn’t want to even converse with you, or share basic affection?

I don’t blame you at all for wanting out of your marriage. That doesn’t make you like your father at all, please don’t be coerced into thinking that.

@IsThereAnEchoInHere, for me, it was initially about the sex. But over the years that turned into his lack of caring about my feelings.
It affects the whole relationship if both parties are not happy with the situation.

Best to separate and co parent. It sounds like she has checked out where any kind of intimacy is concerned and it doesn't seem like she is interested in reconnecting. Does she know you are serious about parting ways? You could suggest couples counselling as a last ditch attempt if she would agree to it.

It sounds like she loves you and your family life but has no interest in sex and does not want to try to address it. It's OK for her not to want sex just as it's OK for you to want to have sex. She has changed the terms of your relationship to suit her and is unwilling to negotiate.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to end the relationship if you cannot live a life without physical intimacy. She may well blame you but she is equally responsible because she is refusing to engage in any discussion about it and expects you to put up with the status quo.

She may not know why she is no longer interested in sex but she could at least try to find out if she wants to save your marriage.

Thanks for the responses everyone, they're very helpful.

I should clarify; yes I want sex. I really, really want sex. More than anyone else I really want sex with my wife. She's the one that I adore and find unbelievably attractive in so many ways and physical intimacy is so intertwined with emotional intimacy in a relationship. As we are I feel more like a sibling than a partner.

Balanced with that is my need to feel desired and wanted. Right now I just feel like a person who does all the mundane stuff and nothing else. It's been so long since I felt wanted it's unreal. A while back I saw a picture of her with her ex and the look in her eye was one of complete desire which made me feel like total shite.

So yes, in lieu of a deep emotional connection with my wife, I would take the temporary excitement of someone actually looking at me and thinking "yeah, I want her".

Have you told DW that?

I’m so sorry - if you’ve been upfront and she still hasn’t made a move about fixing this, I’d go.

FWIW I think withdrawing sex permanently from a spouse without admitting it isn’t great behaviour. She needs to tell you the truth - that may be inconvenient for you both to hear.

I can't get over being given a packet of crisps for your 40th birthday.

I think you should end it and have the life you want.

It sounds like your relationship is over; she doesn’t want to communicate with you

As a PP had said, it sounds like she had checked out of the marriage. It’s crappy behaviour on her part to not admit that.

If you stay, the situation will continue to erode your self esteem. You’re unhappy, I know it’s not easy but put yourself first.

That isn't a marriage. Don't get me wrong, a sexless marriage can work if it suits both parties but this is so much more than that.

You can't agree on intimacy - you're polar opposite in fact - but there also isn't the friendship there either. There's no consideration for you and your needs. There's no communication between the two of you.

Read Seven principles for making marriage work by the Gottmans. Then the date book he wrote.

I would tell her you really want to improve your marriage. Tell her you want to take sex off the table completely but you want to work through all the Gottman books and resurrect what you had at the beginning.

Get out your earliest photos from when you got together. Go on dates. Surprise her. If you can afford it go to a Gottman counsellor. Then if it doesn’t improve you know you did your best.

Honestly op, do you think she’s ‘gone off’ intimacy or do you think she may not feel attracted to you anymore but doesn’t want to break up an otherwise ‘happy’ family home? I know it’s a tough question to ask yourself. Your op does read as what you want or are missing from your relationship, it’s may be time to start considering what she truthfully wants or doesn’t want anymore.

OP, unless some kind of crucial context is missing, it's telling that she changed so much when you got married. I would feel lied to personally. You thought you were marrying a certain type of person, and it seems like she was playing to what you wanted and then just turned off the tap.

She sounds like she's not attracted to you physically at all, or that she is not sexually driven. If someone's not a remotely a sexual person, then attempts by another to 'reconnect' is met with disgust. She won't be interested in reconnect emotionally with you or having days out a she'll interpret it as a lead up to something she doesn't want, like you're not really interested in her, that you just want sex.

It sounds like a very sad situation.

This sounds really like what happened to me with my ex, though fortunately we had no children. She claimed she was basically asexual about 6 years into the relationship and, like you, my dad had left my mum and I was determined not to do the same. We talked so often about it and it made me so sad. Then, 2 years later, she started an affair with another woman and chucked me pronto. I ended up meeting someone wonderful, so IMO it might be time to call time on this relationship if she really refuses to engage with trying to make things better. She doesn't sound very kind, actually.

This is a bit judgemental and you clearly don’t get it.

very judgey

It is interesting to see how the responses have changed now that this is a woman asking... I've lost count of how many men have come in here saying the same thing with them being shouted down, labelled a sex pest, or to respect boundaries. Me being cynical, I'm part in the mind of wondering whether this is a gender-swap to get a more affirming response (sorry if not).

Who carried the children, or are they adopted? Based on numerous MN posts, it would appear normal that the desire for sex frequently declines after childbirth, and it is unfair to want/push for it for within (seems to be the consenus) at least five to ten years after...

I'm in a similar situation (once a month if lucky) due to my wife having depression/hormone imbalances etc. Same thing... the dynamic changed. I guess the only question is, does the joy you get from the non-sex part of the relationship outweigh the unhappiness from the sexless part? It's not fair, I absolutely get that... and there will be many days where you feel absolutely unloved because they've made even hugging you feel like a chore... but if you're serious, and you think she is too, you CAN push through it.

I was in a virtually sexless relationship for some years and it destroyed my self esteem. There was no physical intimacy to help smooth over bad days. We couldn’t connect as adults who love and want one another.

I eventually ended it and was very sad for a while. Have now found a new partner and there is desire, intimacy and laughter. It makes ALL the difference! I have one DD also.

Ditto. What's that all about? What's the rest of your relationship like (apart from the sex)?

I'd agree with couples counselling. But I have to say I'm not sure this is salvageable. If my partner said 'you're just like your father' about anything I'd really struggle to come back from that. Not to mention treating your birthday as an opportunity to humiliate you. She sounds SO angry. What was her parents' marriage like??

I think counselling may be the answer but sadly it might be too late for your wife sounds like she has checked out anyway
usually at counselling they advise taking sex off the table and going back to basics. remember before you married what did you do that was fun?

You can bet your life that should you split up amd she were to meet someone new she'd be having sex with them.

The relationship no longer works.