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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

It turns out he DOES a friend; a female, goodlooking one at that

105 replies

Hehasasecretfriend · 27/06/2023 23:03

DP and I are together 7 dramatic years. I say dramatic as they universe threw a lot at us; bereavements (both), critical illness (me), repeated job loss and mental breakdown (him), familial turbulence (him), loss of identity post illness (me).

We really weren't established properly before all the drama started and really it's never been problem free. We were living together with a baby on the way very prematurely.

Despite that we are I thought both very committed. We have been in therapy and working hard. Our counselor always commends is on the work we do. She also always stresses to me that while she understands he has many struggles how much he absolutely loves me.

One major issue is he has no other functioning relationships; his family are all estranged and he never forms or maintains friendships. Of course that's all fine, we are all different except it feels like enormous pressure on us that he has nobody else to talk to or get another perspective.

Sex has never been great and has always been a source of angst as I had an adventurous and high drive when we met. He's selfish and despite all my efforts to mix things up, it never really improved. Then I got sick, my libido died, sex was very painful and became a source of huge stress. Our therapist suggested we take intercourse off the table entirely and instead try to develop genuine intimacy which she said was missing.

While he doesn't have a friend he could message for a drink or a chat, he always has lots of hobby people to meet up with which I actively encourage. He messages into group chat a bit but prefers to listen to podcasts. He never phones anyone for a chat or messages 1 on 1. I have opposite sex friendships which I make no secret of. I did notice recently he was getting quite irate if he wasn't getting to one of his hobbies enough. It set alarm bells off but quite mildly. As we are being very open in therapy I asked him if anyone was holding his interest. He said absolutely not.

It really felt like we are actually starting to get somewhere real in therapy.

Earlier today he went out but our child was playing with his phone. The app stopped working so I took it. WhatsApp was open. A female name I didn't know was at the top. I clicked and discovered messages over and back all year. He clearly meets up with her regularly. Their messages contain nothing explicit but definitely flirty. They remind me exactly of how he messaged me in our early dating days. There are messages at midnight and first thing in the morning. One morning they were meeting and I specifically remember how he pushed me away the night before after saying he had to get up early in the morning.

He came back from his walk and I said your WhatsApp was open. He immediately began saying he was sorry, it's just flirty talk, he knows he crossed a line but nothing physical happened.

This could be true but two of the messages look like innuendos that suggest something has. I don't know her though and if that's just how she talks.

He messaged her in front of me saying I saw the messages and was upset. She responded why straightaway then said sorry, English is not her first language and she has been in trouble before for upsetting people and will talk to me if necessary.

He keeps saying sorry, it was flirty banter and he loves me.

I keep thinking if nothing happens it seems stupid to make it more (it doesn't seem to have meant anything to her) but on the other hand we were already falling apart and what's the point of going to therapy and omitting information.

Thoughts?

OP posts:
BitOutOfPractice · 28/06/2023 06:20

Whichever way you slice it, it sounds like you are way way more (too?) invested on this relationship than he is. The term “flogging a dead horse” comes to mind!

100yellowroses · 28/06/2023 06:32

How did they meet?

I work in a place with lots of cheeky banter. So flirty jokey chit chat wouldn’t bother me if all mouth and meaningless. If it sounds like it’s heading somewhere past tongue in cheek friendship emotionally or physically, that’s a different matter.

BananaOrangeApple · 28/06/2023 06:33

Her response being ‘what! Why?’ Doesn’t necessarily mean she thought she was doing nothing wrong, she may be trying to gaslight you and cover his back…. She might be well aware she’s being flirty and inappropriate!

PopsicleHustler · 28/06/2023 06:48

The big one to me is, he pushed you away the night before. To me, I feel like he did this was because something fishy was going on, intimate wise with her and he didn't want to be intimate with you.

Send him packing!

GoodChat · 28/06/2023 06:53

She isn't the problem at all here. What she's like makes 0 difference to his behaviour.

WunWun · 28/06/2023 06:57

It's not out of character for him if he's been doing it for a year! It's literally his character.

MargotMoon · 28/06/2023 06:59

You gave him the opportunity to tell you that someone else had turned his head and he didn't take it. That for me would be enough - your instincts told you there was something going on, his instincts told him to lie about it. The therapy isn't working if he can't bring his true self to it and to you.

What are your instincts telling you to do next? I'd trust them if I were you, sounds like you've got your head screwed on and your eyes wide open.

InceyWinceySpidy · 28/06/2023 07:06

BananaOrangeApple · 28/06/2023 06:33

Her response being ‘what! Why?’ Doesn’t necessarily mean she thought she was doing nothing wrong, she may be trying to gaslight you and cover his back…. She might be well aware she’s being flirty and inappropriate!

@Hehasasecretfriend Massively this.

He absolutely knew what he was doing. So did she. Now he's a liar full of faux apology, and she's a liar who likes messaging other people's partners. Dirty feckers.

Don't waste any more time on him. You are worth so much more.

Out of interest, is she Polish?

MsDogLady · 28/06/2023 07:06

@Hehasasecretfriend, only one of you has been truly working on your relationship. Your P has been deceiving you and the counselor while heavily investing in an emotional affair with this OW.

It sounds like they’ve been in pretty much constant contact via their frequent messaging and meet-ups. His reaching out to OW on waking and before sleeping is ‘coupley’ behavior, and pushing you away at night in anticipation of meeting her the next morning speaks volumes. He has behaved like a man obsessed, no matter how much he is downplaying it.

I’m not buying OW’s clueless act. She knows that this level of flirtatious contact with P is inappropriate. Both of them have been lapping up the illicit validation and gratification. If she has been alluding to some physical involvement in her messages, I wouldn’t discount it.

@Hehasasecretfriend, he’s been emotionally cheating, sabotaging your efforts, and manipulating the counseling sessions. My advice is to set a sharp consequence by showing him the door while you consider your options. Personally, his disloyalty and self-serving duplicity would be the death knell for me.

Beautiful3 · 28/06/2023 07:12

Sounds like she's not really the problem, he is. He's looking for someone better. He's been doing it for a year and kept it secret. He thought things might go differently.

Flashingtealights · 28/06/2023 07:12

You said it's clear he meets up regularly. One morning when he met her, the night before he pushed you away saying he had to get up early for work, but he was in reality meeting up with another woman. You can try to push it onto her, she's flirty etc, but the hard truth is your DH was more than happy to play along. That's a horrible betrayal and if you hadn't found out no doubt he'd be carrying on. He wants to go to talk it out in therapy. What's the point, you've done that and he's lied throughout. Once a liar always a liar. No one is forcing you to leave you can try to work it out but you will never trust him again, every time he's late or he says something that doesn't seem quite right that horrible feeling of doubt is going to be right there. Life's too short to be worrying about people lying and cheating on you .

Xeren · 28/06/2023 07:14

She has been in trouble BEFORE

So she’s been involved in flirty conversations with taken men before? Please don’t speak to her and let her gaslight you. English as a second language is no excuse. In fact you need pretty good English to flirt.

It’s very out of character FOR HIM

No it’s not. He’s been flirting with someone else for a year. You just didn’t know his character because he was lying to you.

AgentJohnson · 28/06/2023 07:29

He keeps saying to me he loves me and wants us to talk it out in the safety of a therapy session.

Yeah, I bet he does. Why wasn’t therapy the ‘safe’ space when he was messaging her this past year? It appears he wants to use therapy to manipulate you into glossing over his lies, the safety is about protecting his arse, not about your needs. In the words of the great Lizzo, “Why men great 'til they gotta be great?”.

Your description of both your personalities sound very different and fundamentally you don’t sound compatible. The adversity you have both faced over the years maybe the major component that’s kept you together, without it, you are just too different.

pillsthrillsandbellyache · 28/06/2023 07:29

Your desperation to be in a relationship will cause you to brush this under the carpet. He sounds awful yet you plod on. Why? He has done this for A YEAR. He wont stop, he will just get better at hiding it. I can never understand why women accept being the second best in their relationship. As soon as your OH likes somebody more than you its over isn't it? Relationships are not meant to be this hard.
Oh, and don't switch the blame to her. She owes you nothing. You gave birth to your DP's child. Concentrate on him.

Aprilx · 28/06/2023 07:38

Your relationship sounds like it is hard work and always has been. He is now cheating on you as well. Surely it is time to throw in the towel on this, it’s not getting any better is it.

Hehasasecretfriend · 28/06/2023 07:42

I'm not blaming her or saying it's out of character for him to be flirting. Quite the opposite.

I'm saying I don't know her and this could be her normal. Maybe she's messaging back and forth with lots of people in the club and thinks nothing of it.

I'm saying I do know him and striking up a friendship with anyone is not normal so I know that for him (and he is the only one that is important to me) this is not innocent.

Also my timeline is off on this thread but I don't think that makes any difference. I said all year meaning the beginning of the year nit twelve months. It's actually since march this year which incidentally was shortly after we started therapy.

He is 💯 interested in her. She knows other stuff about him so they share outside of the messages.

For me I think it is over. A pp echoed my own thoughts; he has had his opportunity in therapy to talk about stuff. We haven't been working, I have been working. He has only brought half the story.

I've always wondered about men who attend therapy while having an affair. Why bother when you're not prepared to open up? Do they think it will help them make their decision?

The timing for me is what makes it so final. If things were terrible with no sign of abating I might understand if not forgive. If we were blissfully happy having never had problems I could consider the possibility he just wasn't thinking about what he was doing. But the fact we both accept it's been a shitshow yet are trying to fix it while meanwhile he's fixating on someone else? There's no point.

OP posts:
SnackyOnassis · 28/06/2023 07:47

I know the messages are what's brought this to a head for you, but they're just a symptom, not the cause of the problems here.
Love, and relationships, don't have to be this hard, OP. You got off to a rough start but that doesn't mean you have to keep trying to make up for those early difficult days. It sounds like you're stuck in a sunk coast fallacy - that because you've been together this long, you can't throw it away or it makes that time less valuable. But it's already not valuable - it's just time spent in a difficult, joyless sounding relationship.
If this isn't how you want to spend the rest of your days, slogging away to try and find some basic compatibility and now looking over your shoulder for other women, I suggest you call it a day.

Parisj · 28/06/2023 07:47

They're not trying to make a decision I don't think, in therapy, they are just trying to cooperate enough to stop you making a decision. The absolute minimum to maintain their cake and eat it. NAMALT obvs

Daffodilsandtuplips · 28/06/2023 07:47

English might not be her first language but she knows enough to send flirty messages.
She knows what she’s doing.
He’s interested and she knows it.
Your H has been lying to you for a year, lying all through therapy.

qazxc · 28/06/2023 07:51

She and her intentions are irrelevant.
He has been lying ( at least by ommission) for months. He has prioritised his relationship with her other you ( pushing you away so that he would be rested for their meeting). He knows that the tone of the messages was flirty and inappropriate.
All of this when you were meant to be open in therapy to save the relationship.
If it isn't an emotional affair it's awfully close to one.
How long was he going to carry this on? Is he only sorry now because you found out and there are consequences to hus actions? Can you trust him again not to deceive you?

Needanewnamebeingwatched · 28/06/2023 07:54

The marriage sounds dead and too much effort even before the flirty texts.

Shit sex, selfish, unable to hold down friendships, well unless they are pretty young women he can flirt with

I think you should both go your separate ways.

Mummy08m · 28/06/2023 07:59

What's he even got going for him?

The sex is poor: ample reason alone to leave a man imo.
He gets "irate" about missing his hobbies - if he gets angry about something so petty, he must have a short fuse
Reading between the lines, you only have meaningful conversations during therapy.

Sounds like you're actually married to your therapist (in a manner of speaking)

All the other stuff is less important than this: life is far too short to put up with bad sex. Other men are available.

Mummy08m · 28/06/2023 08:02

Ps I don't mean I'd leave a man if he had a medical condition etc that meant he couldn't have sex for a while. I mean if a man is selfish in bed that is a deal breaker and I feel all hetero women should adopt this policy! A man who is selfish in bed is selfish in his very soul

airmaxJ · 28/06/2023 08:07

So do you think if he had tried it on with her she would have responded to him and went for it ?

peachypudding · 28/06/2023 08:16

The whole thing sounds utterly exhausting OP. You're never going to get what you need from this man.

Time to be brave and move on. Good luck.